- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] not a smalltalk!

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 15 Sep 2014, at 23:47, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > Uko2 wrote >> about pharo not being a smalltalk... is it true? > > Oh goodie... it's been a few weeks and I've been craving one of these > threads ;) Actually, we were not talking about this at all when you were gone, it always starts when you are around ;-)

Sept. 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] not a smalltalk!

by Sean P. DeNigris

Uko2 wrote > about pharo not being a smalltalk... is it true? Oh goodie... it's been a few weeks and I've been craving one of these threads ;) ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/not-a-smalltalk-tp4776586p4778202.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Sept. 15, 2014

[ANN] Easy I18N for Pharo

by Torsten Bergmann

I just refer to my original announcement: "Need an EASY translation framework for your Pharo application with NO EXTERNAL dependency?" That's it. Nothing fancy. Nothing more. Only a simple project. You can - but must not use it and I did not announce it as a GetText replacement. ;) With "I18N" there is no need to externally set up other tools, by default no playing with files. One can manage and version the translation with the code. It is open to the format and I do not have to reinstall external tools when I switch between computers. Start up Pharo and off I go. But this is specific to me and maybe different for others. If it gets complicated one can always switch to GetText or other solutions. Look at the webframeworks - we have Teapot, Aida, Seaside, ... so let the users decide what he wants to use. And GetText is not the only format. Look at Java - there you have messages and message property files or *.resx from .NET world. In I18N I can use them as source as well if I like and they are also not uncommon in translation (offices) and have nice tool support too. Hilaire wrote: >For DrGeo this is a show stopper. As I said it depends on the needs and you may be right for Dr. Geo (or other Pharo based applications). >From the discussion I think we can agree that it would be good to also have good Pharo support for GetText. And then lets talk about the IMHO currently horrible state of GetText and how to fix it: 1. Why is "GetText" not easily loadable from the config browser? If we want people to find and use it we should make it accessible. 2. When you google for "Pharo" and "GetText" you will find https://code.google.com/p/seaside/wiki/Gettext as the first match. The page is outdated, points to the old repository on SqueakSource http://www.squeaksource.com/PharoNonCorePackages/ and even that page does not include a hint that meanwhile the package moved to STHub. 3. Also the new hosting on the STHub page http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/Gettext seems broken, it includes the following comment: "Migrated from PharoNonCorePackages. Should be adapted to Pharo2.0" Outdated comment or not usable in Pharo 3.0/4.0? 4. The last version there is Gettext-HilaireFernandes.33, that is the one that is also included in Dr. Geo. The code should be updated as a) it includes a reference to missing class "MethodReference" in #appendVocabulary:domains: b) the NaturalLanguageTranslator>>cleanUp method references a class variable that is not there Any takers? 5. Writing a simple docu for I18N on STHub took me only a few minutes using markdown and https://stackedit.io. (Pillar and PillarHub provide the same, but STHub does not support it). So why not write a similar docu for GetText including code snippets and all the knowledge that seems to be there already from using it... Bye T.

Sept. 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] How can I help make installing Pharo easier (on Debian Wheezy)?

by Esteban Lorenzano

hi, you need to use this one: http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo/linux/old-libc/pharovm-ubuntu804.tar.gz it will do the work :) and yes, there is no 64bits version (yet) of the VM. It is planned for some point of next year (hopefully spring). cheers, Esteban On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:09 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I have never compiled the VM myself so take any advice with a big grain of > salt. First there is no 64 bit version of Pharo, there is work to port the > VM to 64 bit and some first goals have been met but still a work in > progress. > > Second in order to build the VM you will need firs VMMaker, basically what > Squeak and Pharo do VM wise is use a special language called Slang which > basically a C like smalltalk that compiles to ... well .... C , then you > take the generate C source and compile the VM together with some hand made > C code again for the VM. There is a post of Mariano for the Stack VM which > is the old vm and the Cog VM which is the VM currently used by Squeak and > Pharo that has the added advantage of JIT compiler which means much more > speed. Mariano's post is old but it may still work for compiling for VM so > here it is > > https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/tag/vmmaker/ > > I am still a newcomer to Pharo so if you want more help wait for some of > the experienced pharo coders to reply > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:51 PM, Sloane Simmons <sloanes.k(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Apologies if this is not the right place for this - I'm just getting >> started with Smalltalk and I had a lot of trouble when first trying to >> get going since the binaries on pharo.org don't work with Debian >> Wheezy's glibc (2.13, whereas Pharo is compiled against 2.15 IIRC). I >> tried compiling from the Github repository >> (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm) but it looks this needs >> an existing binary version of pharo to work in order to bootstrap the >> compilation. I eventually just used a virtualbox Ubuntu environment >> (14.04) and was able to install there. >> >> For learning Smalltalk, running in a virtualbox VM absolutely works >> (for me), but I'd like to try and compile for Debian stable (or >> statically link glibc(?)) and then add to the official repositories so >> that it's easier to install. Bonus points would be making a 64-bit >> version... ;) >> >> Thanks, >> Sloane Simmons >> >> >

Sept. 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] How can I help make installing Pharo easier (on Debian Wheezy)?

by kilon alios

I have never compiled the VM myself so take any advice with a big grain of salt. First there is no 64 bit version of Pharo, there is work to port the VM to 64 bit and some first goals have been met but still a work in progress. Second in order to build the VM you will need firs VMMaker, basically what Squeak and Pharo do VM wise is use a special language called Slang which basically a C like smalltalk that compiles to ... well .... C , then you take the generate C source and compile the VM together with some hand made C code again for the VM. There is a post of Mariano for the Stack VM which is the old vm and the Cog VM which is the VM currently used by Squeak and Pharo that has the added advantage of JIT compiler which means much more speed. Mariano's post is old but it may still work for compiling for VM so here it is https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/tag/vmmaker/ I am still a newcomer to Pharo so if you want more help wait for some of the experienced pharo coders to reply On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:51 PM, Sloane Simmons <sloanes.k(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > Apologies if this is not the right place for this - I'm just getting > started with Smalltalk and I had a lot of trouble when first trying to > get going since the binaries on pharo.org don't work with Debian > Wheezy's glibc (2.13, whereas Pharo is compiled against 2.15 IIRC). I > tried compiling from the Github repository > (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm) but it looks this needs > an existing binary version of pharo to work in order to bootstrap the > compilation. I eventually just used a virtualbox Ubuntu environment > (14.04) and was able to install there. > > For learning Smalltalk, running in a virtualbox VM absolutely works > (for me), but I'd like to try and compile for Debian stable (or > statically link glibc(?)) and then add to the official repositories so > that it's easier to install. Bonus points would be making a 64-bit > version... ;) > > Thanks, > Sloane Simmons > >

Sept. 15, 2014

How can I help make installing Pharo easier (on Debian Wheezy)?

by Sloane Simmons

Hi all, Apologies if this is not the right place for this - I'm just getting started with Smalltalk and I had a lot of trouble when first trying to get going since the binaries on pharo.org don't work with Debian Wheezy's glibc (2.13, whereas Pharo is compiled against 2.15 IIRC). I tried compiling from the Github repository (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm) but it looks this needs an existing binary version of pharo to work in order to bootstrap the compilation. I eventually just used a virtualbox Ubuntu environment (14.04) and was able to install there. For learning Smalltalk, running in a virtualbox VM absolutely works (for me), but I'd like to try and compile for Debian stable (or statically link glibc(?)) and then add to the official repositories so that it's easier to install. Bonus points would be making a 64-bit version... ;) Thanks, Sloane Simmons

Sept. 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] BootstrapMagritte load Error

by Stephan Eggermont

Hi Udo, Thanks. That is part of what is needed. In the ConfigurationOfBootstrap, 0.12.0 refers directly to Seaside 3.1.3. I updated it to 0.12.1 Stephan

Sept. 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] BootstrapMagritte load Error

by Udo Schneider

Hi Stephan, I "fixed" it in my fork. Not sure if it's working as you intended but it seems to work: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o0id4mo63ps1jld/ConfigurationOfBootstrapMagritte-… CU, Udo On 15.09.2014 21:02, Stephan Eggermont wrote: > Hi Udo, > > Thanks for the update. > > The current stable BootstrapMagritte loads version090, and works. > Changing groups indeed breaks all users and forces them to upgrade. > > I'm not sure why version0110 and version0120 no longer refer to release versions > of Seaside, nor why there is a baseline0130 > > Stephan >

Sept. 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Easy I18N for Pharo

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2014-09-15 15:35 GMT-03:00 Johan Brichau <johan(a)inceptive.be>: > On 15 Sep 2014, at 19:31, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: >> The main problems I have with external tools is the lack of translation context and the >> slow feedback cycle. That is killing for translation speed and quality. > I can understand that in-app tools work well for developers but when you start working with translators (humans) that are not developers (and certainly not Smalltalkers), you want to export the translation work. Now, Gettext is certainly not the walhalla, but I see a lot of things to do in-app before even getting to the level of those external tools. +1 We used a Gettext like (custom dev) approach in the past, and it was the analyst and expert users who did the translations and customizations (regional dialects). It involved 3 languages and several dialects of Spanish. Some specific terms are different in different countries and/or each corporation has a different jargon which THEY WANT to see on the screen/reports. It worked very well. And because the files were plain text it was even easier to integrate different modifications to the master file using standard tools like git/diff. Regards!

Sept. 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] BootstrapMagritte load Error

by Stephan Eggermont

Hi Udo, Thanks for the update. The current stable BootstrapMagritte loads version090, and works. Changing groups indeed breaks all users and forces them to upgrade. I'm not sure why version0110 and version0120 no longer refer to release versions of Seaside, nor why there is a baseline0130 Stephan

Sept. 15, 2014