- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] AST tokens question

by Thierry Goubier

2014-10-29 9:59 GMT+01:00 Mark Rizun <mrizun(a)gmail.com>: > > I use source intervals to detect which node is selected and than in the > right-click menu user can see only options that are relevanto to selected > node, as it is also made in SmartSuggestions. > I know that use case ;) Ok, then this means you are regenerating the code (1) (or are you doing replace a node / insert new source at right place? (2)) Thinking a bit about it, I'd try reparse, get node from selection index, find equal old node in old (modified) ast, or replace old (modified) ast with new one. Thierry

Oct. 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] AST tokens question

by Mark Rizun

P.S. I have a solution, but don't know if it's appropriate: I remove updating of source interval from replaceWith: method, but my tool will do all the calculations of interval on it's own. 2014-10-29 10:59 GMT+02:00 Mark Rizun <mrizun(a)gmail.com>: > That is way I'd like to have automatically updated source interval. >>> >> >> I'm still not entirely sure why. Source intervals are only there to help >> relating the ast to the source, not much else, really. >> > > I use source intervals to detect which node is selected and than in the > right-click menu user can see only options that are relevanto to selected > node, as it is also made in SmartSuggestions. >

Oct. 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] AST tokens question

by Mark Rizun

> > That is way I'd like to have automatically updated source interval. >> > > I'm still not entirely sure why. Source intervals are only there to help > relating the ast to the source, not much else, really. > I use source intervals to detect which node is selected and than in the right-click menu user can see only options that are relevanto to selected node, as it is also made in SmartSuggestions.

Oct. 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] AST tokens question

by Thierry Goubier

2014-10-29 8:32 GMT+01:00 Mark Rizun <mrizun(a)gmail.com>: > > Which ones? > > > In my tool each node has property oldNodes, which holds collection of > obviously AST nodes:) > When I replace one of node I have to update source interval in some way. > > 1)If I update it with reparsing, I loose all data about oldNodes for each > node of my AST. > So I have to save old AST with all oldNodes, and somehow detect which > nodes were not changed and reassign their lost oldNodes. > But sometimes it's difficult to detect where and what you have to assign, > as sometimes AST may be changed in dramatic way. > Ok; yes, I can relate to that. But, knowing who has designed the RB ast, I'm sure it has a proper equality property where: oldNodeFromAST = sameNodeFromASTreparsed holds true. So you can reparse and rematch old node to new node. But I would only regenerate and reparse when I need to update the source intervals (or display the modified source). > 2) But if source interval is updated automatically I don't bother with > losing data for all AST. > I just have to update oldNodes for node that was replaced. > Well, not really. If during regeneration of your source, you change the way the code is formatted (more tabs here, removing a return there, etc...) then regenerated source intervals are different from modified ast source intervals. So your 'modify source intervals' is very fragile for me. The only way I can see a way out for that problem: Inserted / replaced node have source intervals in a separate source; unmodified nodes keep their source interval. This is the way I do it in my source to source compilers when I want to inject code (and tag in the generated file where that code comes from: usefull for debugging). Or the match of old node to new node as seen above. > > That is way I'd like to have automatically updated source interval. > I'm still not entirely sure why. Source intervals are only there to help relating the ast to the source, not much else, really. Thierry > > >> >> No it shouldn't. If the source has not been regenerated from the modified >> AST, then >> >> 'source copyFrom: theBarASTNode start to: theBarASTNode stop' >> >> end past the end of it (20 to 23 with source ending at 19). >> >> If you regenerate the source, then you can parse it and you'll have >> correct intervals. >> > > Marcus, do I have to redo everything back, or you can somehow remove that > slice from newest version? > > Mark > > >

Oct. 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] How not to serve an AngularJs application from Pharo

by kilon alios

oh brilliant, I really like this design very much. Definitely will look a bit deeper into this . I guess it makes sense to pass the source files as string when the web app is finished to speed up loading times. I really like this workflow for creating web apps. Well done guys. On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 9:31 AM, S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > "would it not be better to have the html / css and js code outside the > image ? so instead to load files instead of return strings ? " > > *GET: '/index.html' -> [ self openspaceHtml ]; * > > can be modified to: > > *GET: '/index.html' -> [ self fetch: 'html/openspace.html' ]; * > > and the *fetch:* method can be coded to return the file statically > stored.. ( increase efficiency by using a cache with change detection on > say filesize / timestamp ) > > > > On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 1:51 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> would it not be better to have the html / css and js code outside the >> image ? so instead to load files instead of return strings ? >> >> this would make it easier to edit the code for html/css/js . GT js >> integration no idea how that works, does GT has for example syntax >> highlighting or other js specific features ? >> >> Even though I always have been a supporter of Amber the IDE has still a >> very long way to go. Dont know about Seaside, but I assume for Seaside js >> code will still be something foreign. I think in practice would be better >> to use the IDE tools offered by firefox and chrome, though its still >> possible to use both amber and these tools, amber does not produce readable >> js code. No clue about React and SqueakJS. I am very new to web dev so >> probably I miss a lot, but frankly I found the fragmentation so shocking >> and so many negative opinions about the whole workflow that I have been >> reluctant to invest as much time as I have invested in Pharo. But then the >> things I do are not so web orientated as other people. But still I am very >> interested into this. >> >> SqueakJS looks definitely very interesting. >> >> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 10:05 PM, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> >> wrote: >> >>> Kilon wrote >>> >Really nice I now see the teapot stuff, for example this >>> > >>> >GET: 'demo/common/style.css' -> [ self styleCss ]; >>> > >>> >is really flexible meaning you can interpret http addresses and map >>> them to pharo methods. This a really cool idea indeed, I see now why people >>> are excited about teapot. Excuse my ignorance about web >development but >>> html/css and js always scared me away :D >>> >>> I found it a very easy way to get some existing javascript app delivered >>> fast from Pharo. >>> It needs a lot of refactoring and cleaning up to become maintainable >>> though. Separate classes >>> for the angular components, and the canvas from Seaside to structure the >>> html. >>> >>> A more difficult aspect is how to create the javascript. For >>> (qc)magritte applications it >>> looks like a builder should be able to generate form components and a >>> json data binding. >>> With GT it should even be possible to integrate javascript development >>> directly in the >>> pharo image. >>> >>> And it might be better to use React or Amber or SqueakJS >>> >>> Stephan >>> >> >> >

Oct. 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] AST tokens question

by Mark Rizun

> Which ones? In my tool each node has property oldNodes, which holds collection of obviously AST nodes:) When I replace one of node I have to update source interval in some way. 1)If I update it with reparsing, I loose all data about oldNodes for each node of my AST. So I have to save old AST with all oldNodes, and somehow detect which nodes were not changed and reassign their lost oldNodes. But sometimes it's difficult to detect where and what you have to assign, as sometimes AST may be changed in dramatic way. 2) But if source interval is updated automatically I don't bother with losing data for all AST. I just have to update oldNodes for node that was replaced. That is way I'd like to have automatically updated source interval. > > No it shouldn't. If the source has not been regenerated from the modified > AST, then > > 'source copyFrom: theBarASTNode start to: theBarASTNode stop' > > end past the end of it (20 to 23 with source ending at 19). > > If you regenerate the source, then you can parse it and you'll have > correct intervals. > Marcus, do I have to redo everything back, or you can somehow remove that slice from newest version? Mark

Oct. 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] How not to serve an AngularJs application from Pharo

by S Krish

"would it not be better to have the html / css and js code outside the image ? so instead to load files instead of return strings ? " *GET: '/index.html' -> [ self openspaceHtml ]; * can be modified to: *GET: '/index.html' -> [ self fetch: 'html/openspace.html' ]; * and the *fetch:* method can be coded to return the file statically stored.. ( increase efficiency by using a cache with change detection on say filesize / timestamp ) On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 1:51 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > would it not be better to have the html / css and js code outside the > image ? so instead to load files instead of return strings ? > > this would make it easier to edit the code for html/css/js . GT js > integration no idea how that works, does GT has for example syntax > highlighting or other js specific features ? > > Even though I always have been a supporter of Amber the IDE has still a > very long way to go. Dont know about Seaside, but I assume for Seaside js > code will still be something foreign. I think in practice would be better > to use the IDE tools offered by firefox and chrome, though its still > possible to use both amber and these tools, amber does not produce readable > js code. No clue about React and SqueakJS. I am very new to web dev so > probably I miss a lot, but frankly I found the fragmentation so shocking > and so many negative opinions about the whole workflow that I have been > reluctant to invest as much time as I have invested in Pharo. But then the > things I do are not so web orientated as other people. But still I am very > interested into this. > > SqueakJS looks definitely very interesting. > > On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 10:05 PM, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> > wrote: > >> Kilon wrote >> >Really nice I now see the teapot stuff, for example this >> > >> >GET: 'demo/common/style.css' -> [ self styleCss ]; >> > >> >is really flexible meaning you can interpret http addresses and map them >> to pharo methods. This a really cool idea indeed, I see now why people are >> excited about teapot. Excuse my ignorance about web >development but >> html/css and js always scared me away :D >> >> I found it a very easy way to get some existing javascript app delivered >> fast from Pharo. >> It needs a lot of refactoring and cleaning up to become maintainable >> though. Separate classes >> for the angular components, and the canvas from Seaside to structure the >> html. >> >> A more difficult aspect is how to create the javascript. For (qc)magritte >> applications it >> looks like a builder should be able to generate form components and a >> json data binding. >> With GT it should even be possible to integrate javascript development >> directly in the >> pharo image. >> >> And it might be better to use React or Amber or SqueakJS >> >> Stephan >> > >

Oct. 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] AST tokens question

by Thierry Goubier

Le 28/10/2014 14:33, Mark Rizun a Ã©crit : > In the first place why I'm doing this. I work on Rewrite Tool and it's > main functionality bases on replacing nodes in AST. Plus it works with > sourceIntervals of nodes. Untill now my solution was: > if I replace node, I reparse tree to get intervals updated I print the modified tree and parse :) > However this solution brought new problems. Which ones? > Second reason is, that I think it makes sense to update interval of all > AST if you replace one node. > For example, we have: > obj1 foo + obj2 bar > and we replace obj1 with myObject. > The interval of ast was 1 to: 19, and now it should be 1 to: 23. No it shouldn't. If the source has not been regenerated from the modified AST, then 'source copyFrom: theBarASTNode start to: theBarASTNode stop' end past the end of it (20 to 23 with source ending at 19). If you regenerate the source, then you can parse it and you'll have correct intervals. Thierry > Mark > > 2014-10-28 14:00 GMT+02:00 Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com > <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>>: > > Le 28/10/2014 12:45, Mark Rizun a Ã©crit : > > Yes, because they are wrong. Here is an issue: > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/__cases/14254/AST-method-__replaceWith-does-not… > <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14254/AST-method-replaceWith-does-not-cha…> > > > I would say that they are correct. > > When I write source to source compilers, I admit that anything that > I change in the AST (via replaceWith equivalent) has no valid source > interval (since it does not exist in the original source). However, > all unmodified nodes should keep their 'non-modified' source > interval (since I may need it to fetch the relevant text from the > source). > > If I want my modification to the AST to have valid source intervals, > then, I need to regenerate the source from the modified AST. And > only then they are valid. > > You may want to update the source interval when you do a > replaceWith, but the only thing we will get with what you want to do > is that, after a replaceWith, no source interval can be trusted > since it may end up past the end of the original source string length. > > Thierry > > > 2014-10-28 13:32 GMT+02:00 Thierry Goubier > <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com> > <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.__com > <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>>>: > > > Le 28/10/2014 12:12, Mark Rizun a Ã©crit : > > Well, not really. > > Technically, tokens are used to drive a parser > from a scanner. > > If an AST node knows how to relate itself to its > original > source > code chunk and is able to print itself correctly, then > tokens are > redundant. > > In short, if you work with parsers, you'd better > know what > tokens > are. If you're only working with the AST, tokens are > redundant and > noise (i.e. they often have a type (or more than > one) which > is only > understood by the parser). > > > I'm working with ASTs sourceInterval. Trying to > calculate it after > method replaceWith:. > You see, my proble was that each node of AST doesn't > hold its > start and > stop position in same place. So I thought that token is > such a > place, > however, eventually I understood that RBValueNodes > don't have > tokens:) > > > Do you mean you're trying to do a replace and update the > positions > of all the nodes ? > > Thierry > > > > >

Oct. 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Pratsch

by Alain Busser

To understand better the Pharo "philosophy", I would advocate Pharo by example, which helped me a lot to understand how I can display objects in the transcript with Transcript show: (8*7) or to know more of the object with (8*7) inspect (actually I know this not from the book because Hilaire tought me this, but afterwards I found it inside the book and there I learned much much more) Alain On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 12:07 AM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com > wrote: > Hi Hans, > > I would not hesitate to state that in the Smalltalk vision, we should make > no difference between a user and a programmer: a user has the right to be a > programmer. > > Today, in academic circles, we call that "end-user programming" if you > need more references (:)). > > If you take some of the best known examples of Pharo, you'll see that they > are empowerment tools: they are designed to unleash a maximum amount of > power by helping you reach complex goals a lot faster than usual. Look for > Moose, Roassal, Seaside. > > Still, you can do sample, autonomous applications. For example, Phratch is > at http://www.phratch.com/; DrGeo is at http://www.drgeo.eu/. > > You can start an application by opening it in a window (i.e. look for an > open method). With a few more lines, you can open it fullscreen to hide the > IDE (have to get back to work to give you those lines :)). With a bit more > work, you can have it running from the command line. > > But remember, Pharo / Smalltalk is a live environment, not a compile and > run my app kind of old stuff (and very old, given that Smalltalk itself is > already old stuff). > > Have fun in your journey in Smalltalk :) > > Thierry > > Le 28/10/2014 13:36, Hans Schueren a Ã©crit : > > Thank you Thierry , >> >> >> guess i am an user. >> >> >> " I have heared there are Pharo programmers" >> >> >> Can i download such a program to see how good they are ? >> >> >> I dont want to hear anything about coding and IDE and development. >> >> >> I am a user and want to start a example program. >> >> >> >> Do you have a LINK for me to download ? >> >> >> >> Hans >> >> >> This sounds strange. >> >> However , i have here a huge range of books about smalltalk 80. >> >> All the books describe the syntax and system. >> >> To write a better and better code and more functions. >> >> The only thing that is not describes is to display a running program >> inside image. >> >> The keywords and methods to display and save the own code inside the >> packages in the >> >> form of "image out" a manipulated smalltalk image to run as a user >> program. >> >> The first step is a really really simple program like mathematic >> calculation etc. >> >> But the procedure of end product must be clear. >> >> Only one good example perhaps with a transcript display can overcome >> theese difficulties. >> >> Its all unclear : >> >> show Transcript >> >> openInWorld >> >> class new class >> >> >> Theese commands are messages to a object. >> >> But the user does not input any program code. This is automatic running. >> >> Anyway , if the Pharo.exe started the image in the program. >> How , and with what keyword is then the program started fullscreen - >> which World is invoked to display? >> >> This preparation point is unclear when i want to make my "Allready >> written program" ready to start. >> >> >> >> However , i make a break with smalltalk now. >> >> A few books are still ordered from USA. >> >> If this point is unclear i cannot learn further at this point. >> >> It makes no sense to write Packages and classes if i cannot invoke the >> running arrangements >> No matter if they are objects or others. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >

Oct. 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Fwd: REST server helpers for Seaside 3.1 ?

by Dale Henrichs

Cameron, The Seaside REST classes do work with GemStone and there is JSON support built-into Seaside 3.1 Dale On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 5:20 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > Hi cameron > > I'm in the US so I will reply a bit and after other people will certainly > complement. > >> Hi All. >> >> We need to set up a REST server for certain services and I am wondering >> what helper classes exist that work with Seaside 3.1. >> > with Seaside-Rest you get REST support. > >> Additionally, do they work on gemstone? >> > I do not know but I would not see why it would not. > >> Also, what support tools/frameworks would you recommend for JSON I/O? >> > NeoJSON from sven > There is a chapter in the PharoForTheEntreprise book > >> >> Thanks in advance, >> Cam >> >> >> >> > >

Oct. 29, 2014