- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Alternate browser

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 01 Dec 2014, at 10:50, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Remember, AltBrowser is clearly the best, so I won't provide a way back to the old ways :):):) That's the spirit !

Dec. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Alternate browser

by Thierry Goubier

2014-12-01 10:32 GMT+01:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: > > On 01 Dec 2014, at 10:26, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > 2014-12-01 10:19 GMT+01:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: > >> >> The mechanism is very simple... if you remove a tool and then use it, there >> will be a DNU. >> (it should open instead window and tell that no tool is installed) >> > > In fact, it's worse: it DNUs even if you still have some tools installed, > just because you unregistered one of them. > > i.e. With AltBrowser installed, you have four browsers in your image: > SystemBrowser, Nautilus, PackageTreeNautilus, and AltBrowser. If you > unregister AltBrowser, you have a DNU, even if you have the three others > still available. > > Yes, as they are there but not registered. ToolRegistry just knows about > the *last* tool registered. If you unregister that, there is none > (this is why ToolRegistry needs to be extended to remember all and just > have the last be the default) > I disagree. Just force an interactive choice feels a lot better to me (and far simpler). Otherwise you'll see people jokeying for order for their tool, and anyway you have to provide a user setting. A cool one: open the settings browser at the right place, instead of creating an ad-hoc dialog. Reuse code + GUI familiarity + less lines of code. There is apparently some magic in the world menu to trigger a user-driven choice among existing tools, but I don't know how to trigger that. No, the only thing it does is to execute all the methods (in a some > un-defined order). The last tool's #registerToolsOn: then will be the one > that ToolRegistry knows about. > There is somewhere a user-query that you can trigger under some circumstances. But I could not find it. I'll have a look. I noticed that unloading AltBrowser was a very nice way to end up with a dead Pharo image :( Remember, AltBrowser is clearly the best, so I won't provide a way back to the old ways :):):) Thierry > > > Marcus > >

Dec. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Alternate browser

by Marcus Denker

> On 01 Dec 2014, at 10:26, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > 2014-12-01 10:19 GMT+01:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr <mailto:marcus.denker@inria.fr>>: > > The mechanism is very simpleâ¦ if you remove a tool and then use it, there will be a DNU. > (it should open instead window and tell that no tool is installed) > > In fact, it's worse: it DNUs even if you still have some tools installed, just because you unregistered one of them. > > i.e. With AltBrowser installed, you have four browsers in your image: SystemBrowser, Nautilus, PackageTreeNautilus, and AltBrowser. If you unregister AltBrowser, you have a DNU, even if you have the three others still available. > Yes, as they are there but not registered. ToolRegistry just knows about the *last* tool registered. If you unregister that, there is none (this is why ToolRegistry needs to be extended to remember all and just have the last be the default) > There is apparently some magic in the world menu to trigger a user-driven choice among existing tools, but I don't know how to trigger that. > No, the only thing it does is to execute all the methods (in a some un-defined order). The last toolâs #registerToolsOn: then will be the one that ToolRegistry knows about. Marcus

Dec. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Alternate browser

by Thierry Goubier

2014-12-01 10:19 GMT+01:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: > > The mechanism is very simple... if you remove a tool and then use it, there > will be a DNU. > (it should open instead window and tell that no tool is installed) > In fact, it's worse: it DNUs even if you still have some tools installed, just because you unregistered one of them. i.e. With AltBrowser installed, you have four browsers in your image: SystemBrowser, Nautilus, PackageTreeNautilus, and AltBrowser. If you unregister AltBrowser, you have a DNU, even if you have the three others still available. There is apparently some magic in the world menu to trigger a user-driven choice among existing tools, but I don't know how to trigger that. Thierry > > Marcus >

Dec. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Alternate browser

by Marcus Denker

> On 01 Dec 2014, at 10:17, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > 2014-12-01 9:52 GMT+01:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr <mailto:marcus.denker@inria.fr>>: > >> On 29 Nov 2014, at 11:39, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> >> "- I wonder how to get back to Nautilus. It would be nice to be able to use both." >> > > In general we should enhance the ToolRegistry to not just register one tool, but instead keep all and have > a UI in the settings where people can the change the tool used. > > There is of course an issue entry for that at > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10529/ToolRegistry-need-to-support-multip… <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10529/ToolRegistry-need-to-support-multip…> > (this would not be a solution to âdifferent tool per contextâ, but nevertheless we need it) > > It would be convenient, yes. > > At the same time, it's not much for additional tools to handle a set-as-default setting by themselves, except for the part where the API for unregistering a tool seems broken (I easily managed to throw my image into a DNU each time some tool wanted a browser, for example). The mechanism is very simpleâ¦ if you remove a tool and then use it, there will be a DNU. (it should open instead window and tell that no tool is installed) Marcus

Dec. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Alternate browser

by Thierry Goubier

2014-12-01 9:52 GMT+01:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: > > On 29 Nov 2014, at 11:39, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > "- I wonder how to get back to Nautilus. It would be nice to be able to > use both." > > > In general we should enhance the ToolRegistry to not just register one > tool, but instead keep all and have > a UI in the settings where people can the change the tool used. > > There is of course an issue entry for that at > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10529/ToolRegistry-need-to-support-multip… > > (this would not be a solution to "different tool per context", but > nevertheless we need it) > It would be convenient, yes. At the same time, it's not much for additional tools to handle a set-as-default setting by themselves, except for the part where the API for unregistering a tool seems broken (I easily managed to throw my image into a DNU each time some tool wanted a browser, for example). Thierry > > Marcus > >

Dec. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Alternate browser

by Marcus Denker

> On 29 Nov 2014, at 11:39, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > "- I wonder how to get back to Nautilus. It would be nice to be able to use both." > In general we should enhance the ToolRegistry to not just register one tool, but instead keep all and have a UI in the settings where people can the change the tool used. There is of course an issue entry for that at https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10529/ToolRegistry-need-to-support-multip… (this would not be a solution to âdifferent tool per contextâ, but nevertheless we need it) Marcus

Dec. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Alternate browser

by Thierry Goubier

Le 29/11/2014 16:28, phil(a)highoctane.be a Ã©crit : > Doc at the bottom of the right pane would be nice. Done for the pharo3 version, along with the ability to properly unregister AltBrowser from the settings (AltBrowser->make default browser). There is now a menu command toggling the comment pane(*). Comment is read-only even if one can type things in it(**). If we could add comments to protocols or packages, it would display those when appropriate. Oh, and for the fun :) It also works in the "message browser" mode as well as the "finder" results (which is something I wrote 0 lines for :)). Now some polishing is needed; you know better how you would like it to be, so its yours :) Thierry (*) Would that be better as a kind of setting? Making the menu longer for something you rarely switch on or off... (**) I'm lazy ;) It could be nice to have it as a more "floating" / or different color read-only pane to mark it as documentation, or even make it rw if you feel like it. > Phil > > Le 29 nov. 2014 11:43, "Thierry Goubier" <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com > <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> a Ã©crit : > > Le 29/11/2014 11:29, phil(a)highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be> > a Ã©crit : > > I have been using AltBrowser for a test. > > Some feedback > > - I like to see doc with my code so having to click back and > forth is > annoying and not conductive to writing class comments. > > > Good point. I wondered about having multiple text panes on the right > (linked to multi-selection in the tree, such as selecting a comment > + a method) but I decided against it on pure lazyness excuses (fear > of code complexity / unable to see a simple way of doing it / able > to get along without it). > > Given the size of the text pane on the right, it seems we could do a > lot with it. > > But I have a feeling that having the start of a method allways at > the same place (in the window) is significant. > > A "auto-appearing" comment pane at the bottom? > > - I got a couple freezes > > > Interesting. If you find a way to reproduce them, I'll be happy. > > - I wonder how to get back to Nautilus. It would be nice to be > able to > use both. > > > Nautilus is still there. You can open one (PackageTreeNautilus > open), but, yes, it could be nice to unregister AltBrowser. Wait, I > think there is a settings option... > > Thierry > > > Phil > > Le 29 nov. 2014 10:40, "Thierry Goubier" > <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com> > <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.__com > <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>>> a Ã©crit : > > Le 29/11/2014 10:06, Hilaire a Ã©crit : > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/____filters/?fClosedBugs=true&____ixPersonOpene… > <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/__filters/?fClosedBugs=true&__ixPersonOpenedBy=…> > > <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/__filters/?fClosedBugs=true&__ixPersonOpenedBy=… > <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/filters/?fClosedBugs=true&ixPersonOpenedBy=194&…>> > > > Is that just me or is your filter/link not working? > > Don't hesitate to voice your feelings even if they don't > fit within > bug reports. The fact you're writing this is a kind of > report ;) > > Making powerfull things simple is complex > > Thierry > > Le 29/11/2014 08:53, stepharo a Ã©crit : > > where? > > Le 28/11/14 21:30, Hilaire a Ã©crit : > > Le 28/11/2014 08:07, Marcus Denker a Ã©crit : > > It is unstable with me. It is really > feature > complete, it is nice, > but I > > may use wrongly. > May be with a simpler one I will do > less > mistake. > > If nobody reports and fixes problems, they > will stay > forever. > > Reported, they are. > > Hilaire > > > > > > > > > > > >

Nov. 29, 2014

MVC/ MVP / DCI Patterns..

by S Krish

In the context of spec / UI / enterprise solutions, I have been mulling over this for some time especially when I play with FXML. To put it in context, I find FXML intriguing and nice. XML metadata that stays completely outside the code and makes it uber flexible to weave in UI to a enterprise solution post facto. The thought trail I have is: Typical Pattern: Model links to Controller that links to a: Customer View ( singleton ? ) Controller links to: Validators / Delegates.. et als.. Model links to in Memory Cache registry { that links to: Persistence Module.. I do not bother about this for now..} In FXML I see nice convention over configuration approach: * XML format.. understood by people/ more importantly editors at large.. * Controller is injectable * all method calls onAction/ events are simple viz #handleSubmitButtonAction or the ilk.. that will thereby call the controller instance methods.. * fxml can also invoke simple ( or complex) javascript action viz: jsSubmitAction( event) Would Spec see that kind of approach.. feasible for extensibility Food for thought more as rethink on fundamental patterns: a) Should view have knowledge explicitly of its Controller.. Or Controller while creating the view injects its instance.. only.. b) Should we push Controller to be a Presenter.. as the case tends to be. And then let Controller be the gateway to all other parts.. as listed above.. c) View actions & callbacks & validators are separated and dealt with a view "controller" , but the gateway to all other parts is handled by a real "observer controller" ... There has to be reliable: * bidirectional update from view -> model ( in cache ) * proper modular segregation of all parts of a standard enterprise app. to enable common and known functions of each part, flexible, scalable but importantly easily maintainable.. in future by developer other than the author.. * Scriptability is one of the desired capabilities with the shrink wrapped app to be extended

Nov. 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Alternate browser

by Thierry Goubier

Le 29/11/2014 11:39, kilon alios a Ã©crit : > > "- I wonder how to get back to Nautilus. It would be nice to be able to > use both." > > thats an annoyance for me too, I would like to be given the option to > choose what browser I want to use depending on the situation. Doing that is just triggering a nice bug in Pharo 3. There is apparently no real API for unregistering a tool... > Also your comment on the comments is a valid one, I think we need a more > dynamic browser in general which currently Pharo lacks, that does not > try to choose for us how to do coding and instead gives us the choices . > Of course dynamic browsers are more effort. A Moldable system browser? The old system browser is dynamic, in a way: class / hierarchy / full. Changes based on what was your focus. The message list as well, the finder UI as well. But... complex, not that convincing. Thierry

Nov. 29, 2014