- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Mea Culpa

by Bernat Romagosa

Hey Richard, I believe the only alive cross-dialect space is the #smalltalk IRC channel in FreeNode. There's an average of 25~30 people online in that channel, which is not _too_ bad considering the size of our community. Still, compare that to, say, #lisp, with ~400 users and also being a cross-dialect channel. Smalltalkers feel quite strong about their particular dialect. I'm not criticizing this behavior, I'm just stating facts. I also have strong feelings for "my dialects" and I don't think this is necessarily bad. However, there are some "de-facto" meeting points for all Smalltalks, like http://world.st. Even though there is no mailing list that joins all of us together, this space does feature a homogenized list of all forums ( http://forum.world.st/) Planet Smalltalk (http://planet.smalltalk.org/) is another great one for those of us who use RSS feeds. Indeed, it could take quite a while before a generic Smalltalk list was populated enough, but these two efforts show there might be an interest. Cheers, Bernat. 2015-01-22 9:11 GMT+01:00 Martin BÃ¤hr <mbaehr(a)email.archlab.tuwien.ac.at>: > Excerpts from kilon alios's message of 2015-01-22 08:13:57 +0100: > > Popularity indeed comes with a high price. Guido the creator of python he > > has said in one of his presentation that there many people who want to > add > > their libraries to python distribution but they should not want to do > that, > > because once a library is added it become very difficult to change since > so > > many people depend on it to keep backward compatibility. He claimed that > > even simple bug fixes have to go through lengthy review process. This can > > be expanded to the entirety of the IDE and the language. > > > > This the most important reason why pharo has been moving forward so fast > > and why popular languages move at glacial speed. > > I dont want to lose that so yes I dont want for pharo to become popular. > > squeak already hast that 'problem' i believe and pharo is actively working > to > counteract it by removing less important things. so i doubt pharo will > suffer > from the pressure to fill it up with new packages any time soon. > > in this case it may be a win for all because those who want backwards > compatibility can choose squeak, and those who want fast paced action may > use > pharo. > > also craig with context is working on minimizing the images which i believe > should help to move more and more things out of the core, allowing you to > pull > them back in, making it possible to choose from various versions, based on > your > compatibility needs. > > ironically, i actually expect to want backwards compatibility in the > future. > but backwards to now, not to a decade ago, so i hope pharo development will > eventually slow down somewhat. > > in addition, the multiple smalltalk implementations also act as a > stabilizing > factor, because people will want to write code that runs on all of them. > (seaside for example) so pharo can't go that far out of line and make > itself > completely incompatible. > > i am also not sure which is better. a large standard library makes for a > more stable system. > having lots of important 3rd party libraries can lead to dependency > issues... > > greetings, martin. > > -- > eKita - the online platform for your entire academic > life > -- > chief engineer > eKita.co > pike programmer pike.lysator.liu.se caudium.net > societyserver.org > secretary > beijinglug.org > mentor > fossasia.org > foresight developer foresightlinux.org > realss.com > unix sysadmin > Martin BÃ¤hr working in china > http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/ > > -- Bernat Romagosa.

Jan. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] could not find display

by Lozenguez Guillaume

Hi, Finally it's working normally this morning. I suppose that a simple reboot has actualized the environment variables. So, I'm ready to start the tutorial now... Guillaume L. Afin de contribuer au respect de l'environnement, merci de n'imprimer ce courriel qu'en cas de necessite Please consider the environment before you print

Jan. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Glorp on Pharo 4

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

A comma is indeed a (binary) message. It concatenates two Collections, like Strings. Please provide more details on how you try to connect and what error you get, exactly. > On 22 Jan 2015, at 08:26, Craig <craig(a)hivemind.net> wrote: > > From: Sven Van Caekenberghe > Sent: 22 January 2015 08:37 AM > >> What exactly do you mean ? >> >> Reading the link above that seems to be correct, at first glance, maybe I > don't see it. > > Sven, > > Forgive me, I'm new to Pharo, but I'm sure that in Pharo you don't use > commas to separate parameters in a > message. I don't know of any syntactical significance of the comma. > I saw this after I got the ", does not understand connectionArgs" message > when trying to connect to my > Postgres database. I take this to mean that Pharo tried to send the > connectionArgs message to the > ',' ByteString. > > Craig > >

Jan. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Mea Culpa

by Martin BÃ¤hr

Excerpts from kilon alios's message of 2015-01-22 08:13:57 +0100: > Popularity indeed comes with a high price. Guido the creator of python he > has said in one of his presentation that there many people who want to add > their libraries to python distribution but they should not want to do that, > because once a library is added it become very difficult to change since so > many people depend on it to keep backward compatibility. He claimed that > even simple bug fixes have to go through lengthy review process. This can > be expanded to the entirety of the IDE and the language. > > This the most important reason why pharo has been moving forward so fast > and why popular languages move at glacial speed. > I dont want to lose that so yes I dont want for pharo to become popular. squeak already hast that 'problem' i believe and pharo is actively working to counteract it by removing less important things. so i doubt pharo will suffer from the pressure to fill it up with new packages any time soon. in this case it may be a win for all because those who want backwards compatibility can choose squeak, and those who want fast paced action may use pharo. also craig with context is working on minimizing the images which i believe should help to move more and more things out of the core, allowing you to pull them back in, making it possible to choose from various versions, based on your compatibility needs. ironically, i actually expect to want backwards compatibility in the future. but backwards to now, not to a decade ago, so i hope pharo development will eventually slow down somewhat. in addition, the multiple smalltalk implementations also act as a stabilizing factor, because people will want to write code that runs on all of them. (seaside for example) so pharo can't go that far out of line and make itself completely incompatible. i am also not sure which is better. a large standard library makes for a more stable system. having lots of important 3rd party libraries can lead to dependency issues... greetings, martin. -- eKita - the online platform for your entire academic life -- chief engineer eKita.co pike programmer pike.lysator.liu.se caudium.net societyserver.org secretary beijinglug.org mentor fossasia.org foresight developer foresightlinux.org realss.com unix sysadmin Martin BÃ¤hr working in china http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/

Jan. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Glorp on Pharo 4

by Craig

From: Sven Van Caekenberghe Sent: 22 January 2015 08:37 AM > What exactly do you mean ? > > Reading the link above that seems to be correct, at first glance, maybe I don't see it. Sven, Forgive me, I'm new to Pharo, but I'm sure that in Pharo you don't use commas to separate parameters in a message. I don't know of any syntactical significance of the comma. I saw this after I got the ", does not understand connectionArgs" message when trying to connect to my Postgres database. I take this to mean that Pharo tried to send the connectionArgs message to the ',' ByteString. Craig

Jan. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Mea Culpa

by kilon alios

Popularity indeed comes with a high price. Guido the creator of python he has said in one of his presentation that there many people who want to add their libraries to python distribution but they should not want to do that, because once a library is added it become very difficult to change since so many people depend on it to keep backward compatibility. He claimed that even simple bug fixes have to go through lengthy review process. This can be expanded to the entirety of the IDE and the language. This the most important reason why pharo has been moving forward so fast and why popular languages move at glacial speed. I dont want to lose that so yes I dont want for pharo to become popular. On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 4:45 AM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello Richard, > > 2015-01-21 17:12 GMT-03:00 horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com>: > >> Okay, so far, I've made two mistakes. First was my lack of sensitivity to >> cultural differences around the world. Now that I know better, I shall do >> better. > > > You better take a lot of care writing about politics, sports, or whatever > that could be considered Off-Topic. Some people is always looking for > excuses to kick out offenders. And some others are monitoring with eagle > eyes any out-of-order comment you can possibly write. Rules of the game. > > >> Second was my failure to distinguish between different subgroups within >> the >> Pharo forum. > > > Welcome to Smalltalk :) > > >> The reason I chose Pharo forum to discuss my campaign was the >> fact that it is the most active Smalltalk forum there is. People who are >> > interested in Smalltalk join the most active forum generally, and this >> includes not only Pharoers, but people from ESUG, Squeak, Cincom, Amber, >> Redline, etc. >> >> > Yes, this is parasitic behavior and well-known for biologists. > Unfortunately I haven't seen many smalltalkers interested in on-line social > behavior, probably because in such small community the most valuable asset > is The Code, followed by The Documentation. Which of course, are excuses to > get The Money. > > >> So, for example, when I appealed for contributors to the Redline project, >> I >> should've distinguished the target audience as those groups other than >> Pharoers. This was my failure and I own up to it. >> >> It is unfortunate that I must use the Pharo forum for this purpose. The >> Smalltalk community is so terribly fragmented that there is no universal >> Smalltalk forum to address, at least, none that is actually *inhabited*. >> Without the ability to address the largest number of Smalltalkers, the SRP >> cannot make any progress. I'm sorry, but I have to be blunt. >> >> > Then maybe you should start your own Smalltalk mailing-list? > > For spanish language we have ClubSmalltalk. Is a cross-smalltalk mailing > list where people may write in other languages, but has become really low > volume in the last years. And Smalltalk was (is?) very popular in > Argentina, so you can get a dimension of how terribly small the community > is. > > >> If anyone can offer a practical alternative, I'd like to hear it. >> Otherwise, >> the SRP has only two choices: >> >> 1) Continue what it is doing on the Pharo forum, and be mindful of which >> group(s) I am addressing. >> >> 2) Fold up the campaign and leave the destiny of Smalltalk to the Fates. >> Without the ability to reach out to Smalltalkers everywhere, I am >> hopelessly >> disadvantaged. >> >> > I am not that convinced Smalltalk should be popular. Surely any > smalltalker could find easily (more) job offers, that would be the only > determinant factor because we need desperately more Smalltalk positions. > But popularity has many drawbacks.... some smalltalkers are afraid to > competition, and we all read the StackOverflow 'popular' questions... > > So, my alternative is: Instead of broadcasting Smalltalk by traditional > internet advertising, go and get them. I suspect you won't get much from > us, we are some kind of Loyal Customers. But there are tons of > unexperienced developers lacking of fear to change, which are reading > Quora, StackExchange, Wikipedia, etc. And unexperienced developers are the > next business decision makers. > > For example, see this articles which CS students read every day: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-ended_queue > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_array > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_search_algorithm > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_%28computer_science%29 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_intelligence_projects > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_expression > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorting_algorithm > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_machine > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software > > No Smalltalk mention there. There you have it, the Library of Alexandria > of our time, and people do not read about us. > > Cheers, > > HernÃ¡n > > > >> Regards, >> Richard >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/Mea-Culpa-tp4800840.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> >

Jan. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Glorp on Pharo 4

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 22 Jan 2015, at 06:52, Craig <craig(a)hivemind.net> wrote: > > From: Sven Van Caekenberghe > Sent: 20 January 2015 01:40 PM > >> Using Glorp on top of the PostgresV2 driver (which uses just a network > connection and no native code nor plugin) >> should work on all platforms. Of course, you still have to install > Postgres itself, but it can run on another machine too. >> >> HTH, >> >> Sven > Sven, > > I just ran into an issue in the Postgres V2 driver, which I guess is a > porting error. See below and note the commas ",". > > PGConnection>>stSendingMD5Password: event > "MD5 authentication as explain in > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-novice/2003-05/msg00305.php" > | hashedCredentials hashedMessage | > > hashedCredentials := (MD5 hashMessage: (connectionArgs password, > connectionArgs userName)) hex asLowercase. > hashedMessage := 'md5', (MD5 hashMessage: (hashedCredentials, event > salt asString)) hex asLowercase. > > self sendPacket: (PGPasswordPacket password: hashedMessage) on: > socket. What exactly do you mean ? Reading the link above that seems to be correct, at first glance, maybe I don't see it. Sven

Jan. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Glorp on Pharo 4

by Craig

From: Sven Van Caekenberghe Sent: 20 January 2015 01:40 PM > Using Glorp on top of the PostgresV2 driver (which uses just a network connection and no native code nor plugin) > should work on all platforms. Of course, you still have to install Postgres itself, but it can run on another machine too. > > HTH, > > Sven Sven, I just ran into an issue in the Postgres V2 driver, which I guess is a porting error. See below and note the commas ",". PGConnection>>stSendingMD5Password: event "MD5 authentication as explain in http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-novice/2003-05/msg00305.php" | hashedCredentials hashedMessage | hashedCredentials := (MD5 hashMessage: (connectionArgs password, connectionArgs userName)) hex asLowercase. hashedMessage := 'md5', (MD5 hashMessage: (hashedCredentials, event salt asString)) hex asLowercase. self sendPacket: (PGPasswordPacket password: hashedMessage) on: socket.

Jan. 22, 2015

The Smalltalk Revolution is still going!

by horrido

My article "The Smalltalk Revolution" is a frickin' Energizer Bunny! It just keeps going and going and going... At this moment, it has surpassed 15K views and 8.1K reads. Instead of petering out, *as it appeared to be doing earlier this week*, it seems to be growing again! /I wonder what's going on??/ -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Smalltalk-Revolution-is-still-going-tp4800873.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Mea Culpa

by horrido

hernanmd wrote >> It is unfortunate that I must use the Pharo forum for this purpose. The >> Smalltalk community is so terribly fragmented that there is no universal >> Smalltalk forum to address, at least, none that is actually *inhabited*. >> Without the ability to address the largest number of Smalltalkers, the >> SRP >> cannot make any progress. I'm sorry, but I have to be blunt. >> >> > Then maybe you should start your own Smalltalk mailing-list? A new mailing list that is uninhabited has no value for our campaign. If you create one, it may take months or years before a large number of Smalltalkers migrate to it. >> If anyone can offer a practical alternative, I'd like to hear it. >> Otherwise, >> the SRP has only two choices: >> >> 1) Continue what it is doing on the Pharo forum, and be mindful of which >> group(s) I am addressing. >> >> 2) Fold up the campaign and leave the destiny of Smalltalk to the Fates. >> Without the ability to reach out to Smalltalkers everywhere, I am >> hopelessly >> disadvantaged. >> >> > I am not that convinced Smalltalk should be popular. Surely any > smalltalker > could find easily (more) job offers, that would be the only determinant > factor because we need desperately more Smalltalk positions. But > popularity > has many drawbacks.... some smalltalkers are afraid to competition, and we > all read the StackOverflow 'popular' questions... There are people who don't care for Smalltalk's popularity, and there are people who really hope that Smalltalk becomes mainstream. I strongly suspect that the latter group is much larger. Smalltalk positions are relatively few and far between (at least, this is true in Canada). Becoming mainstream is the only way to improve this. Very few developers are willing to relocate. > So, my alternative is: Instead of broadcasting Smalltalk by traditional > internet advertising, go and get them. I suspect you won't get much from > us, we are some kind of Loyal Customers. But there are tons of > unexperienced developers lacking of fear to change, which are reading > Quora, StackExchange, Wikipedia, etc. And unexperienced developers are the > next business decision makers. In order to improve Smalltalk's popularity, it is necessary to harness the support and energy of the Smalltalk community. This is not a question of preaching to the converted; it's about getting help to convert others. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Mea-Culpa-tp4800840p4800872.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 22, 2015