- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] What UI direction now (or in the near future)?

by Johan Fabry

> On Feb 26, 2015, at 19:13, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Thanks (to all). So, the best way (for now) is the old friend Morphic. > Better way may be to stay at Spec level for all available components you need and for your special component write Morph which could be adapted back to Spec. After all Spec components still have Morphic under them, but you are not exposed to low level Morphic. I agree with Peter: build your UI with Spec, this will automatically use your old friend Morphic but make it much easier to construct a complete UI. ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Feb. 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] What UI direction now (or in the near future)?

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

> > Thanks (to all). So, the best way (for now) is the old friend Morphic. > Better way may be to stay at Spec level for all available components you need and for your special component write Morph which could be adapted back to Spec. After all Spec components still have Morphic under them, but you are not exposed to low level Morphic. Peter

Feb. 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] What UI direction now (or in the near future)?

by Alain Plantec

Hi Sean, No, Iâve not studied Self Morphic but I hope that I understand well the idea and a part of its design. I think it is still the idea of Morphic even in Pharo but as you say, pollute with special cases. The Bloc core is a reimplementation of this Morphic idea. I hope you will appreciate its uniformity. (yes, you can open a World in a World :) ) Cheers Alain > Le 25 fÃ©vr. 2015 Ã 23:03, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> a Ã©crit : > > Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list wrote >> now, design decisions are to be made regarding the widgets layer. > > I assume you've studied the original Self Morphic, which seemed very simple > and elegant in my brief experiments with it. One of the key principles was > uniformity e.g. the World, Hand, etc could all be regular objects, like any > other Morph. Our implementation creates special cases which are barriers to > understanding and experimentation e.g. it's very difficult to create and > customize a World within a Worldâ¦ > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/What-UI-direction-now-or-in-the-near-future-tp4807447… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Feb. 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] BaselineOf vs ConfigurationOf

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

Thank you! If the BaselineOf is independent maybe we could repurpose Versioner - because even if tags and branches are handled by git, the load order and dependencies are still required and doing that by hand is too much work. :) Also maybe the docs (which I found just nowâ¦ so shame on me for not looking harder) should be updated to recommend people to use BaselineOf always https://github.com/dalehenrich/metacello-work/tree/master/docs Peter On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 8:23 PM, Dale Henrichs < dale.henrichs(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: > > On 2/26/15 4:41 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > >> Just a random query (especially since I haven't played with BaselineOf >> and I might misunderstand something)... >> should #baseline: be moved out of the ConfigurationOf class so that we >> consistently have a BaselineOf class in both cases: git & monticello. >> > Haha, you are misunderstanding ... the two classes are separate because > they are independent classes. One should use one or the other for managing > a project. > > If you have a git-based project then I recommend that you use a BaselineOf > to manage the packages and dependent projects. > > If you are using a Monticello repository (mcz files) then you must use a > ConfigurationOf ... > >> >> That is, the ConfigurationOfXxx.mcz package will contain two classes: >> ConfigurationOfXxx and BaselineOfXxx. >> >> This will not work as you expect:) > > Dale > >

Feb. 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] What UI direction now (or in the near future)?

by Alexandre Bergel

> Will be internal drawing methods in Morph switched to Athens drawing by default in future? You can do the drawing in Athens. It is up to you. Using Athens will make your rendering faster and nicer (if you use the Cairo binding, which is the default binding). If I would be a beginner who want to understand what there is, I would simply give a try to Spec, bloc, and plain Morphic. In any case, your application logic should be independent from the UI. Because UI is frequently changing (have you though about exposing your UI on the web?) Cheers, Alexandre > > >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] What UI direction now (or in the near future)? >> From: Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)yahoo.com> >> Date: 25. Ãºnora 2015 20:17:46 SEÄ >> To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> >> Hello Petr, >> >> So far we have Morphic (Athens is the next underlying framework for 2D Drawing). >> Thanks to Nicolai, Athens is near to be fully integrated. >> We have Spec for widgets composition. >> >> Regarding Bloc: >> >>> Sub-questions: >>> >>> A) Is Bloc (complete Morphic rewrite, sigh) âone man showâ? What about future, support, long-term issues? Look at Marina CMS framework, even used for Pharo website, but not maintained nowâ¦ >> >> Iâve started Bloc with Stephane. So far Iâm the main developper, But, you are perfectly right. No future for Bloc if it stays like that. >> Weâve stopped adding because now, design decisions are to be made regarding the widgets layer. >> Currently, we are writing a documentation of the core. The next step is to make it available in the hope we will get feedbacks and also to bootstrap contributions from the community. >> It will take time. Be sure that I will stop Bloc if we stay only two or if someone else come and propose something better than Bloc. No problem, Iâve fun with Bloc. >> >> Spec will stay, so we will also have to build new adapters to be able reuse tools. >> >>> >>> B) Is Bloc prepared with Retina displays in mind (perfect smooth fonts and graphics, scaling, more detailed images for retina etc.)? >> >> Bloc bring nothing on that point except that it is is based on Athens >> >>> >>> C) Is current keyboard + UI component focus support perfect or pain inâ¦ >> >> I guess yes :) >> >> Cheers >> Alain >> >> >>> >>> Isnât a âbad timeâ for this decision (Pharo) now? >>> >>> Thanks very much for any brief hint, Petr Fischer >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Feb. 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] What UI direction now (or in the near future)?

by Petr Fischer

Thanks (to all). So, the best way (for now) is the old friend Morphic. Will be internal drawing methods in Morph switched to Athens drawing by default in future? pf > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] What UI direction now (or in the near future)? > From: Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)yahoo.com> > Date: 25. Ãºnora 2015 20:17:46 SEÄ > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > > Hello Petr, > > So far we have Morphic (Athens is the next underlying framework for 2D Drawing). > Thanks to Nicolai, Athens is near to be fully integrated. > We have Spec for widgets composition. > > Regarding Bloc: > >> Sub-questions: >> >> A) Is Bloc (complete Morphic rewrite, sigh) âone man showâ? What about future, support, long-term issues? Look at Marina CMS framework, even used for Pharo website, but not maintained nowâ¦ > > Iâve started Bloc with Stephane. So far Iâm the main developper, But, you are perfectly right. No future for Bloc if it stays like that. > Weâve stopped adding because now, design decisions are to be made regarding the widgets layer. > Currently, we are writing a documentation of the core. The next step is to make it available in the hope we will get feedbacks and also to bootstrap contributions from the community. > It will take time. Be sure that I will stop Bloc if we stay only two or if someone else come and propose something better than Bloc. No problem, Iâve fun with Bloc. > > Spec will stay, so we will also have to build new adapters to be able reuse tools. > >> >> B) Is Bloc prepared with Retina displays in mind (perfect smooth fonts and graphics, scaling, more detailed images for retina etc.)? > > Bloc bring nothing on that point except that it is is based on Athens > >> >> C) Is current keyboard + UI component focus support perfect or pain inâ¦ > > I guess yes :) > > Cheers > Alain > > >> >> Isnât a âbad timeâ for this decision (Pharo) now? >> >> Thanks very much for any brief hint, Petr Fischer >> >> >> > > > >

Feb. 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Any static web site generators for pharo with bootstrap support?

by stepharo

Yes now that we have pillar I think that this is the time to investigate that :). Because before I was just editing smalltalk code :). > Having a framework to generate static website from Pharo like Jekyll > (http://jekyllrb.com/) or DocPad (https://docpad.org/) would be great > ;-) > > On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 1:46 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas > <offray(a)riseup.net> wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I'm planning to make a web site. Nothing fancy, just a web site for the >> grafoscopio project I have told you about already. I started to use Nikola >> blog engine[1], but, after a while I thought I want to try something else, >> something that can create static web sites like Nikola, but with more >> interactive feedback and made in Smalltalk. I have found Bootstrap for >> Seaside [2], but I don't want the "Seaside" part in the sense that I don't >> want to create any behaviour served by Seaside or configure any server for >> that matter, just to put some Smalltalk code that produces static html >> powered by boostrap and put it under distributed source control management, >> like I do now with my blog. There is something like that in Pharo/Smalltalk >> or any approach you suggest me to make it happen fluidly? >> >> [1] http://getnikola.com/ >> [2] http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~TorstenBergmann/Bootstrap >> >> Thanks, >> >> Offray >> > >

Feb. 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] What UI direction now (or in the near future)?

by stepharo

Le 25/2/15 04:02, Petr Fischer a Ã©crit : > Hello! > > Suppose, that I need to write simple UI app + write my own UI list component (some special behaviour, canât use default list UI component from Pharo) + I need perfect keyboard support (shortcuts, tab navigation + navigation by cursor keys in some windows), which also means, that I need perfect UI component âfocusâ supportâ¦ > > Another priority: I do not want to learn things (in exhaustive detail) that expire in 2 years. > > Current status: I like Smalltalk (Pharo!), know basics of Morphic and I noticed some future as Athens and Bloc. I am trying to get out from âclosedâ app development and Apple âclosedâ technologies as ObjC/Swift/Cocoa and want to be little more productive and platform independent. Simple, snappy, attractive and smooth UI is the key for me/users. > > And nowâ¦ which direction: > > 1) old Morphic (simple powerful work with old Morphs etc.) You can use old Morphic but be prepared to understand or not change/updates sometimes strange behavior, mixed with event update. I would prefer to spend time building widgets in Bloc rather than fixing the one in Morphic because it is circumvoluted. But from time to time I will continue to clean it. > > 2) Morphic + Athens drawing (maybe I donât understand the connection) Morphic will run on Athens. It is already based on the work of Nicolai. > 3) Bloc Bloc does not offer widgets. The people from SCG are building Bricks that can work (inside) or on top of Bloc. > > Sub-questions: > > A) Is Bloc (complete Morphic rewrite, sigh) âone man showâ? What about future, bloc is about future. Now doing it would be silly but there is a risk. So do we die because we do not move and continue to have a huge system that nobody really understand well or do we try to improve with the risk of failiure. Now alain is one Morphic expert, he wrote miro and miro2 with the ancestor of Athens (Rome). > support, long-term issues? We are working on documentation. You can for example, open Bloc and execute the examples. You can try to turn some of them into examples. This is what I did and it helps alain. > Look at Marina CMS framework, even used for Pharo website, but not maintained now... Can I ask yourself a question? What do you do that is simple that could help us to avoid to focus on simple things and concentrate on the difficult ones. You see this is not a huge challenge. But you should ask yourself the question. I'm sad about Marina but we could not guess that nicolas would leave Smalltalk like that. About Bloc I think that the design stabilized and now it is ready for other people to have a look and play with it. Before it was not constructive. We got several iterations (I did not do much, just read the code and ask stupid questions). But I see that it is getting there. Now Bloc-Core is not about widget it is about events, drawing, listeners, space. Then we started to see that we can use Spec on top of Bloc. So this is why I'm starting to clean Spec. But commenting pragmas is a task that anybody could do but apparently I'm the only that is doing. The next steps are: - expose valueHolder via getter (named xxxHolder for consistency) - remove all the whenChanged.... that are pure delegation - verify if the adapter can be just use during widget creation to bind the widget to the model (and not as a middle like now) - cleaning more. Now if somebody wants to step in I can reviews changes. > > B) Is Bloc prepared with Retina displays in mind (perfect smooth fonts and graphics, scaling, more detailed images for retina etc.)? As much as Athens with a cairo back end is. Bloc is 100% based on Athens. Athens is a vectorial canvas API > > C) Is current keyboard + UI component focus support perfect or pain in... Nothing is perfect. My mac crashes. I cannot open my old keynote presentations because keynote 09 crashes. You see the world is complex. Now when keynote crashes I cannot do much. We should finish a pass on the hardcoded keybindings that are left. But someone should do it. > > Isnât a âbad timeâ for this decision (Pharo) now? Now the point is that with Pharo you can fix problems. > > Thanks very much for any brief hint, Petr Fischer > > > >

Feb. 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] What UI direction now (or in the near future)?

by stepharo

Do not ask alain extra work. Read Bloc code. Stef > Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list wrote >> now, design decisions are to be made regarding the widgets layer. > I assume you've studied the original Self Morphic, which seemed very simple > and elegant in my brief experiments with it. One of the key principles was > uniformity e.g. the World, Hand, etc could all be regular objects, like any > other Morph. Our implementation creates special cases which are barriers to > understanding and experimentation e.g. it's very difficult to create and > customize a World within a Worldâ¦ > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/What-UI-direction-now-or-in-the-near-future-tp4807447… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Feb. 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] What UI direction now (or in the near future)?

by stepharo

Do not confuse things. Athens is a CANVAS it has ***nothing*** to do with events. Events are managed by the UI layer not the drawing layer. Athens is about drawing. > Morphic has been around for over a decade. Probably it will stay for a while. > Athens is quite stable. However it is not made to do UI. It does not do much for event handling. Roassal does the drawing with Athens and the event management with Morphic. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > >> On Feb 25, 2015, at 12:02 AM, Petr Fischer <petr.fischer(a)me.com> wrote: >> >> Hello! >> >> Suppose, that I need to write simple UI app + write my own UI list component (some special behaviour, canât use default list UI component from Pharo) + I need perfect keyboard support (shortcuts, tab navigation + navigation by cursor keys in some windows), which also means, that I need perfect UI component âfocusâ supportâ¦ >> >> Another priority: I do not want to learn things (in exhaustive detail) that expire in 2 years. >> >> Current status: I like Smalltalk (Pharo!), know basics of Morphic and I noticed some future as Athens and Bloc. I am trying to get out from âclosedâ app development and Apple âclosedâ technologies as ObjC/Swift/Cocoa and want to be little more productive and platform independent. Simple, snappy, attractive and smooth UI is the key for me/users. >> >> And nowâ¦ which direction: >> >> 1) old Morphic (simple powerful work with old Morphs etc.) >> >> 2) Morphic + Athens drawing (maybe I donât understand the connection) >> >> 3) Bloc >> >> Sub-questions: >> >> A) Is Bloc (complete Morphic rewrite, sigh) âone man showâ? What about future, support, long-term issues? Look at Marina CMS framework, even used for Pharo website, but not maintained now... >> >> B) Is Bloc prepared with Retina displays in mind (perfect smooth fonts and graphics, scaling, more detailed images for retina etc.)? >> >> C) Is current keyboard + UI component focus support perfect or pain in... >> >> Isnât a âbad timeâ for this decision (Pharo) now? >> >> Thanks very much for any brief hint, Petr Fischer >> >> >>

Feb. 26, 2015