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Re: [Pharo-users] Introduction to OOP for UPBE was: Some new book chapters :)

by kilon alios

Not really because those concepts are already explained in other chapters. Blocks and conditions and why conditions are the way they are are explained in Chapter 3. Chapter 4 explains messages in general including the use of parentheses , how messages are sent , the different kind of messages , when to use a block and when to use parentheses, cascades etc etc. Chapter 5 explains the model system of Pharo, method lookup , self sends, super sends and much more. So the chapter we are writing will go between Chapter 4 and 5 and offer a smoother introduction to OO. The focus is to offer a practical approach to the very fundamentals with as little overlap as possible with other chapters. Part II of PBE goes deeper also, chapter 13 covers classes and metclasses in great detail, Chapter 14 which is about Reflection describes method dictionaries , accessing run time context, intercepting MNUs etc. Stef once also published a very detailed chapter on Blocks with many advanced features . This used to be in Pharo for the Enterprise , now should be in PharoInProgress. And yes I understand how messages work. The iink your provided is a reference documentation and I dont like this kind of documentation sinking inside theory with few practical examples. Quite the opposite of PBE and frankly a really bad way to teach coding especially to a newcomer and someone unfamiliar with OOP. On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > Le 29/03/2015 15:18, kilon alios a Ã©crit : > > For example message passing suppose to be this super powerful feature > > , that diffirentiate from method calls in the essence that the user > > does not need to know the internals of the class. But I have not seen > > a class that take advantage of this feature inside pharo. In every > > single case if I had exchanged the message passing with method calls I > > would not have even noticed the difference. In every case I have > > studied each message corresponds to a method with exactly the same > > name. I am sure maybe one day will come handly , but I dont see why > > one needs to explain a feature that rarely someone will use understand > > how to code in a specific environment. > > Hello, > > You may really take a look at the *first* paragraph of Alan Lovejoy's > article mentioned in my previous message, and pass it to the student as > well: > > > http://www.smalltalk.org/articles/article_20100320_a3_Getting_The_Message.h… > > > Without this understanding, one fails to understand why #ifTrue: > argument is a block, or why #and: message's argument is a block[] > surrounded by parenthesis(), then the beginner may have a hard time to > use correctly the class libraries. > > Best, > > -- > Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu > iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu > > > >

March 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Introduction to OOP for UPBE was: Some new book chapters :)

by Hilaire

Le 29/03/2015 15:18, kilon alios a Ã©crit : > For example message passing suppose to be this super powerful feature > , that diffirentiate from method calls in the essence that the user > does not need to know the internals of the class. But I have not seen > a class that take advantage of this feature inside pharo. In every > single case if I had exchanged the message passing with method calls I > would not have even noticed the difference. In every case I have > studied each message corresponds to a method with exactly the same > name. I am sure maybe one day will come handly , but I dont see why > one needs to explain a feature that rarely someone will use understand > how to code in a specific environment. Hello, You may really take a look at the *first* paragraph of Alan Lovejoy's article mentioned in my previous message, and pass it to the student as well: http://www.smalltalk.org/articles/article_20100320_a3_Getting_The_Message.h… Without this understanding, one fails to understand why #ifTrue: argument is a block, or why #and: message's argument is a block[] surrounded by parenthesis(), then the beginner may have a hard time to use correctly the class libraries. Best, -- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

March 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] MySQL framework for Pharo to analyze futures and options.

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > > On 29 Mar 2015, at 04:47, Pierce Ng <pierce(a)samadhiweb.com> wrote: > > > > On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 02:21:01PM -0700, nacho wrote: > >> I'm using MySQL to hold some data on commodities prices for futures > >> valuation and want to - of course - use Smalltalk as a front-end. Which > >> framework would you recommend? > > > > There is a pure Smalltalk MySQL driver on Squeaksource. Not sure whether > > it has been moved to SS3 or STH. > > > > http://www.squeaksource.com/StdbMysqlProtocol > > > > Others have suggested Glorp. Glancing at the code, seems Glorp currently > only > > works with VisualWorks' MySQL driver. Based on my experience integrating > > NBSQLite3 into Glorp, I'd say it will take about a day or two, depending > on the > > design of the driver. I've tested abovementioned MySQL driver with some > version > > of MySQL5 some months ago. > > It would be very good to have another Glorp solution with a pure Smalltalk > implemented DB driver, like the PostgresV2 one. IMHO this is way less error > prone than the whole library/driver/.. mess on all these different platform. > > Since our Glorp refactor back years ago...adding a Glorp adaptor (DatabaseDriver subclasses) should be very very easy. So yes, it would be nice to do it for the MySQL driver...but I thought we already had that... -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

March 29, 2015

Introduction to OOP for UPBE was: Some new book chapters :)

by kilon alios

I would like the opinion of the community on this. I have discussed the addition of an introduction to OOP back when I was very actively contributing to UPBE and the response I got was very positive. The plan was similar to what I mentioned, just bare basics , making sure that the reader understand the very basic fundamental concepts of OO, like classes, inheritance, instances, class and instance variables, class and instance methods etc. Essentially a chapter similar to my video tutorials but going a bit deepers with more detailed example still keeping it simple , clear and understandable even for non coders. I want to know whether such chapter would be included because I dont like to waste my time or the precious time of the student that has taken the task on her shoulders. "IMHO this is the exception to that obvious rule. OOP in particular is misunderstood by almost everyone. If we as Smalltalkers describe it from a forensic CS perspective that sounds to me like C++, I believe it is better that we say nothing on the subject." Personally I dont care if people misunderstand OOP , I only care about getting my code to work the way I want it. So far I had no problem doing that even though I code using very simple concept some of them may come even back when I was coding in C++. I also dont share the sense of wonder that some of you may share about how Smalltalk is doing OO, coming from python does not seem such a big deal for me. For example message passing suppose to be this super powerful feature , that diffirentiate from method calls in the essence that the user does not need to know the internals of the class. But I have not seen a class that take advantage of this feature inside pharo. In every single case if I had exchanged the message passing with method calls I would not have even noticed the difference. In every case I have studied each message corresponds to a method with exactly the same name. I am sure maybe one day will come handly , but I dont see why one needs to explain a feature that rarely someone will use understand how to code in a specific environment.

March 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Some new book chapters :)

by Hilaire

Le 29/03/2015 13:19, kilon alios a Ã©crit : > "It does not emphasize the key features of OOP - > message sending and late binding - or the tremendous benefits." > > I am glad it does not , because if it did , it would be not a > Introductory chapter to OOP. Hello, I don't know the article Sean is talking about so I am only discussing the point about message and late binding. What Sean explains is that message sending and late binding is at the essence of Smalltalk (and therefore Pharo). More over it is an *easy* concept to understand, and finally and probably more important: a learner getting it right at the first time will learn and understand *more easily* the way the Class libraries are built and practised. Hopefully there are already valuable resources on the topic one can reuse: http://www.smalltalk.org/articles/article_20100320_a3_Getting_The_Message.h… Probably more: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=smalltalk+essence+to+OOP And the points from Smalltalk creator: http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?AlanKaysDefinitionOfObjectOriented Thanks -- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

March 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] topics.pharo.org - Deep learning

by Serge Stinckwich

This topic was added by Sebastian Sastre. Regards On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Julien Delplanque <julien(a)tamere.eu> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm currently searching for a subject for a project to do during my > first year of master. > > I want to do something that is linked to pharo. Following StÃ©phane > Ducasse advises, I had a look in topics.pharo.org and I saw a subject > that could interest me named "Deep learning". But there is no supervisor. > > Does anyone here have more informations about it? > > Regards, > > Julien > -- Serge Stinckwich UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

March 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Some new book chapters :)

by Sean P. DeNigris

> rejecting an effort on documentation, whether its something that satisfy high standards or not, is something that the Pharo community cannot afford IMHO this is the exception to that obvious rule. OOP in particular is misunderstood by almost everyone. If we as Smalltalkers describe it from a forensic CS perspective that sounds to me like C++, I believe it is better that we say nothing on the subject. ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Some-new-book-chapters-tp4815809p4815888.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

March 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Issue on enabling developer options in Pharo Launcher

by Nicolai Hess

2015-03-29 3:10 GMT+02:00 rohit sharma <rohitbprm(a)gmail.com>: > hi all, > I want to save proxy settings in pharo launcher (as discussed on irc with > ben, kilon and jigyasa ) and that's why i initially wanted to enable > development environment. > But actually I was trying to say that it would be nice if there is some > option of saving proxy settings without enabling development environment in > pharo launcher and even if possible, load these proxy settings in newly > added images also. > What version of pharo and pharolauncher do you use? Because my version has the proxy settings in the pharo launcher settings > > On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 2:13 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > >> >> >> 2015-03-28 21:27 GMT+01:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: >> >>> What is the issue with GTPlayground? >>> >> >> 15243 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15243> >> default playground play-cache directory may be read only >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> Doru >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 6:40 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> 2015-03-28 11:23 GMT+01:00 Jigyasa Grover <grover.jigyasa1(a)gmail.com>: >>>> >>>>> Sir >>>>> I have installed the latest version of PharoLauncher on my system (OS >>>>> : Ubuntu 14.04) >>>>> Whenever I try to enable the developer option in the settings , I get >>>>> a warning dialog , in which clicking on Proceed hangs up the application. >>>>> I have repeated the process twice or thrice , but am stuck at the same >>>>> position. >>>>> I have attached the screenshot of the warning recieved. >>>>> Kindly review this issue. >>>>> Thanks and Regards >>>>> Jigyasa Grover >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Maybe this is an issue on linux only ? >>>> I tried the recent build of pharolaunchers windows installer and that >>>> works. >>>> The difference is that the installer installs pharo launcher in a >>>> Pharo3.0 image >>>> whereas on linux (install steps from http://pharo.org/download) >>>> it uses a Pharo4.0 image, some of the methds are deprecated. >>>> >>>> nicolai >>>> >>>> BTW there is an issue with GTPlaygrounds play-cache I'll open an issue >>>> on fogbugz for this. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >> >> >

March 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Some new book chapters :)

by Norbert Hartl

Great! Thank you! Norbert > Am 28.03.2015 um 22:39 schrieb stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > > Hi guys > > Here are new book chapters > > Teapot Rest extension on top of Zinc > https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/EnterprisePharo/tree/master/Teap… > > Mustache: template system > https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/EnterprisePharo/tree/master/Must… > > TinyChat: a small chat > https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/PharoInProgress/tree/master/Tiny… > > you can find the pdf versions in https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/ >

March 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Some new book chapters :)

by kilon alios

"It does not emphasize the key features of OOP - message sending and late binding - or the tremendous benefits." I am glad it does not , because if it did , it would be not a Introductory chapter to OOP. "This is an important topic that should be written about by a master OOP practitioner." Good luck, are you willing to wait another 5 years ? Because newcomers to Pharo with no clue to OOP finding fragmented information around the book about classes and objects, dont think will wait that long. I doubt if they last even a day. On the subject of message passing there is dedicate chapter for it in Chapter 4 and its also explained in Chapter 5. Late binding again its an advanced subject that will need its own chapter. For now my focus is making sure the reader understand the very basics of OOP. Without such basic knowledge is pointless to talk about advanced OOP features in Pharo. One can easily write a book on OOP with Pharo to explain the full potential, but since there are very few people contributing to documentation it comes down to the fact that every single contribution counts and the fact that UPBE must have an Introduction to OOP 5 years ago. Furthermore, if people are so willing to help out, the repo is open to every potential contributor, you can edit the chapter or even erase and replace it with your own if you believe you are up to the task. Until a better alternative comes up , the work will go on. By the way I am supervising the chapter , even though the student writes it, I will be editing and improving it along the way and as it is , is very far from finished. It will be included to the book as a pull request when its finished. My personal opinion , rejecting an effort on documentation, whether its something that satisfy high standards or not, is something that the Pharo community cannot afford with the serious problem in the lack of documentation. Its an area that Pharo can use any help it can get.

March 29, 2015