- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalkhub permission denied

by Hilaire

I am still on PermissionDenied, strange. Le 22/07/2015 20:55, stepharo a Ã©crit : > Yes from time to time we have this problem... > > > Le 22/7/15 04:10, Hilaire a Ã©crit : >> Hello, >> >> On a freshly created project I have permission denied to write on the >> repo. >> http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~HilaireFernandes/Tools >> >> Hilaire >> > > > -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu http://google.com/+DrgeoEu

July 23, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Semantics of #resignalAs:

by Norbert Hartl

> Am 23.07.2015 um 17:54 schrieb Joachim Tuchel <jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de>: > > Norbert, > > I'd say you get a NotFound Exception. > In pharo you get a debugger. Meaning this piece of code is actively an endless loop. Norbert > Joachim > > > >> Am 23.07.2015 um 16:20 schrieb Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: >> >> What are the semantics of Exception>>#resignalAs: regarding active exception handler? Isn't the active exception handler excluded from being treated again? Taking the example >> >> | counter | >> counter := 0. >> [ 1/0 ] >> on: Error >> do: [ :e | >> counter := counter + 1. >> counter > 1 ifTrue: [ self halt ]. >> e resignalAs: NotFound new ]. >> >> should it just run and end? Or should the debugger pop up? >> >> thanks, >> >> Norbert >> >> >> >

July 23, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] [OT] Bill Gross: The single biggest reason why startups succeed

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > When I talk to "new programmers" (20-25 years old), almost all of them > don't get attracted by it. > Why? I couldn't tell. Mainly because they can't use the few tools/patterns > they already learnt how to, barely, use. > As someone who (still) falls into this range I see several (unrelated) reasons why they might not like it. For me personally I encountered Pharo in University in "Conceptual modeling" class, where it was introduced pretty much as "Oh, by the way, here is this completely new environment that you've never seen nor worked with that we will use, but we will not tell you much about it"... so my first experience was quite awful. I mean... I couldn't even write the code in my favorite text editor and I had to use this weird browser where system code and my own code were mangled up. Image crashing meant I lost my work. Now I know I can just replay changes but I didn't know it back then (the focus of the class was modeling, not Pharo). Bugs (this was Pharo 2 (and 3 beta)) were commonplace and since I had no experience I couldn't tell whether it was my fault or the system's fault... it was overall very unpleasant. I later (after the course) basically foced myself to look at Pharo again because I didn't understand why would people bother to use it... so clearly there must have been some value I've missed. And I don't regret that decision a bit, but I had to go look for it. So statistically speaking from the year I did the class only two or three students (to my knowledge) kept their interest out of 119 (so 2-3% maybe). Other years were no different. Next year there will be a dedicated class for Pharo so I'm curious if this will change somehow. But there may be other reasons why students may not like it... (looking again from my experience) >From university experience perspective, the previous year (for us, and from what I talked with people it's not that different also for other universities) was a heavy massage in C and C++ where we were implementing very basic concepts (hashtables, and other data structures). A year where your main concern was to pass a automated checking system... so mostly memory management and creating write-only code. Plus warped concepts of OOP (so to use actual student quotes: "C++ is great for explaining OOP", "You can do OOP in pure C", or "OOP is useless, long confusing code, full of getters and setters, .. and slow. Inline assembler is much faster"). So with such concepts it's hard to give them OOP language, because they already made up their mind. Yet another reason I can see might be that when you are young you are more inclined to follow what's cool and modern and popular and shit (or has the word "game" in its name). So if today's world revolves around connectivity, internet, JavaScript and whatnot, then giving them a isolated environment with non-mainstream technology and a dead language they've never heard of (I thought that Smalltalk was an obscure language that died in '80s, before I found that actually it's alive and doing quite well) will not be met well with appreciation. But no reason to stop there... there market for Smalltalk is arguably small, so people will prefer language that is in demand by the market (after all, I pay my bills with JavaScript/PHP/webstuff, and not Pharo; because it's much easier to find a job; with Pharo I would have to basically start my own business to be profitable and then I would be doing business and not programming). And last (but not least), finding support for it is much harder, since the community is smaller. So it's almost all or nothing scenario. Also some of the arguments here can be applied also for functional programming (which I haven't (shame on me) even engaged with, besides messing with Haskell in XMonad (and multi-paradigm languages that have some functional concepts). Finally I don't think that you should expect the same behavior from young people (<26) as from adults. They will have different values, views, and whatnot... I mean that's the point of growing up and acquiring experience. All you can do is offer this alternative option and provide support. Being mainstream or non-mainstream is akin to self-fulfilling prophecy. (Of course exceptions happen, JavaScript was raised to glory because the language happen to be in the right place (browser) at the right time (boom of modern web)). Hmm... and this post ended up being much chaotic and longer than I intended to... but whatever. Peter p.s.: I like the music analogy since I was listening to k-pop while working (webtech), and now I am listening to ambient music when writing about Pharo :p

July 23, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Semantics of #resignalAs:

by Joachim Tuchel

Norbert, I'd say you get a NotFound Exception. Joachim > Am 23.07.2015 um 16:20 schrieb Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: > > What are the semantics of Exception>>#resignalAs: regarding active exception handler? Isn't the active exception handler excluded from being treated again? Taking the example > > | counter | > counter := 0. > [ 1/0 ] > on: Error > do: [ :e | > counter := counter + 1. > counter > 1 ifTrue: [ self halt ]. > e resignalAs: NotFound new ]. > > should it just run and end? Or should the debugger pop up? > > thanks, > > Norbert > > >

July 23, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] [OT] Bill Gross: The single biggest reason why startups succeed

by Martin BÃ¤hr

Excerpts from Esteban A. Maringolo's message of 2015-07-23 16:51:10 +0200: > What I think we miss here, is the generation of the users adopting > Pharo/Smalltalk. > > For many developers over they 30's (like me), when I show them Pharo or > tell them about what/how it does some stuff, they get curious and/or try > it. They might even learnt Smalltalk back at the university. > Usually they have used/suffered a lot of languages or tools and can > appreciate the benefits of Pharo, as well as to identify its shortcomings. that's a good point. i also fit into that group, picking up smalltalk because i want to expand and get a different perspective on how development is done. > When I talk to "new programmers" (20-25 years old), almost all of them > don't get attracted by it. > Why? I couldn't tell. Mainly because they can't use the few tools/patterns > they already learnt how to, barely, use. yes, the problem with people coming out of school. they expect that school adequately prepared them for future jobs, thus assume that what they learned in school is enough for the rest of their career. it takes several years of working for reality to sink in. > Those "kids" will grow up and besides doing non-toyish software, maybe will > lead teams or get to make decisions about what technology to use. Maybe we > should ask ourselves what technologies do startups choose to "invent" new > solutions? Why? whatever the lead tech happens to be familiar with. and if they are not familiar with anything then they'll use rails. > Software became pop-culture some years ago, and I feel we're > Jazz/Classical. I like the latter, but trying to attract pop being > classical is a dead end. totally. it is exactly the feeling i have about smalltalk and lisp. i learned both because i wanted to know if the newer languages everyone is using are really any better. i'd expected that they would learn and improve over older languages. but i had to discover that that's not the case. i used to believe that languages like python, ruby and pike were a new generation of languages that improved over the old languages like c and c++, but i was disappointed and had to find out that the innovation already happened a few decades earlier and almost everything else following was a step backwards in some ways. greetings, martin. -- eKita - the online platform for your entire academic life -- chief engineer eKita.co pike programmer pike.lysator.liu.se caudium.net societyserver.org secretary beijinglug.org mentor fossasia.org foresight developer foresightlinux.org realss.com unix sysadmin Martin BÃ¤hr working in china http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/

July 23, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec with Roassal

by Mark Rizun

> > view signalUpdate. > Sorry, I sent a bit wrong example. Yes I tried to use signalUpdate. However, apperently I used it somehow wrong, as it didn't work. Now it works :) Thanks > > And finally as I've said to Alex when I wrote the example which you are > now using... > DynamicComposableModel is good for scripted prototyping, but if you are > building an actual application, you should switch to ComposableModel sooner > rather than later. > I used your example (with DynamicComposableModel) just for simplicity, because I can not show the problem in my project easily. There I use just ComposableModel. Mark

July 23, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] [OT] Bill Gross: The single biggest reason why startups succeed

by Esteban A. Maringolo

What I think we miss here, is the generation of the users adopting Pharo/Smalltalk. For many developers over they 30's (like me), when I show them Pharo or tell them about what/how it does some stuff, they get curious and/or try it. They might even learnt Smalltalk back at the university. Usually they have used/suffered a lot of languages or tools and can appreciate the benefits of Pharo, as well as to identify its shortcomings. When I talk to "new programmers" (20-25 years old), almost all of them don't get attracted by it. Why? I couldn't tell. Mainly because they can't use the few tools/patterns they already learnt how to, barely, use. Those "kids" will grow up and besides doing non-toyish software, maybe will lead teams or get to make decisions about what technology to use. Maybe we should ask ourselves what technologies do startups choose to "invent" new solutions? Why? Software became pop-culture some years ago, and I feel we're Jazz/Classical. I like the latter, but trying to attract pop being classical is a dead end. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo

July 23, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec with Roassal

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

Hi, this has nothing to do with Spec and all to do with Roassal. Roassal uses it's own update mechanism, which you haven't called. view elements when: TRMouseClick do: [ :e | e element color: Color red. "<-- this is unrelated, but don't access trachelShapes directly if Roassal provides API for what you want" view signalUpdate. "<-- if you change something you need to signal the view (and sometimes also elements) to update itself (this is useful for changing many things without constant triggering of updates)" ]. And finally as I've said to Alex when I wrote the example which you are now using... DynamicComposableModel is good for scripted prototyping, but if you are building an actual application, you should switch to ComposableModel sooner rather than later. Peter On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Mark Rizun <mrizun(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi everyone! > > I'm building a ui with Spec and using Roassal view inside of my window. > To embed the view I use Roassal2Spec package (RoassalModel class). > When I click on element of view I want to change its color. > The problem is that color changes only after you move a winodw or open > another window etc. > Here is an example code. Just try to click on elements and than move the > window. > > ********************************************** > > ui := DynamicComposableModel new. > ui instantiateModels: #( > button ButtonModel > view RoassalModel > ). > > ui button label: 'I am a button'. > ui extent: 600 @ 480. > > ui view script: [ :view :canvas | > |es| > es := RTEllipse new size: 20; elementsOn: (1 to: 6). > view addAll: es. > > RTCircleLayout on: es. > RTEdgeBuilder new > view: view; > elements: es; > connectToAll: [ :value | { value + 1. (value + 1) % 6 } ]. > view elements when: TRMouseClick do: [ :e | e element trachelShape > color: > Color red. World displayWorld. World doOneCycleNow ]. > canvas camera focusOnCenter. > > ]. > > layout := SpecLayout composed > newColumn: [ :col | > col > add: #button height: ComposableModel toolbarHeight; > add: #view. > ]; > yourself. > > ui openWithSpecLayout: layout. > > ********************************************** > > Thanks > Mark > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Spec-with-Roassal-tp4838854.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

July 23, 2015

Semantics of #resignalAs:

by Norbert Hartl

What are the semantics of Exception>>#resignalAs: regarding active exception handler? Isn't the active exception handler excluded from being treated again? Taking the example | counter | counter := 0. [ 1/0 ] on: Error do: [ :e | counter := counter + 1. counter > 1 ifTrue: [ self halt ]. e resignalAs: NotFound new ]. should it just run and end? Or should the debugger pop up? thanks, Norbert

July 23, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Font with many Unicode glyphs to display code -- IPA?

by H. Hirzel

P.S. Screen shot attached. A source code font. Or put the question differently how do I add a font as a source code font? On 7/23/15, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello > > I work on an app which has some strings in the code with a > considerable number of non ISO8859 symbols (e.g. IPA > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA) > > How do I get / use a font which does this? The fonts provided in the > settings panel did not do the job. > > Thank you in advance > --Hannes >

July 23, 2015