- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Updated Pharo By Example

by Tudor Girba

On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 1:10 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > > Le 15/10/15 18:12, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : > > thanks guys > > I can compromise for the time being with the user not going to the website > , searching for doc and founding documentation for pharo 1.4 while the > version he/she has is pharo 5 when we already have a book that is fairly up > to date. > > Is there anyone responsible for the PBE website ? Can we make the change ? > > > Yes we can ask oscar and after will host it also at books.pharo.org and > in HTML version too as for all the other books. > Damien P and Damien C are working on a better latex template for pillar > generated books. > > > > > Also please use this thread to post your blog posts and own tutorials I > could use for UPBE. I am in the process of reading the humaneassesment > documentation but I welcome also others. Any form of tutorial or article is > welcomed. > > > pay attention. I think that we should minimize UI elements and external > frameworks because else we will have more work in 4 years from now. > 2 years :) Doru > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 6:31 PM Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)inria.fr> > wrote: > >> >> Hi Dimitris, >> >> Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> writes: >> >> > First of all thanks to all the people helping with the documentation. >> > >> > Now I think its the time to replace the old PBE with UPBE, we dont >> > need to change the website just link to the newest pdf here >> >> I agree UPBE is important. I want to finish EnterprisePharo and the Mooc >> first and then focus on UPBE. I want to get printed copies of it in book >> stores as we did we the other books. This will take time, but with your >> help and the help of the community, we will get there. >> >> -- >> Damien Cassou >> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >> >> "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without >> losing enthusiasm." --Winston Churchill >> >> > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 16, 2015

Fwd: [GSoC Mentors Announce] Google Summer of Code 2016

by Serge Stinckwich

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: 'Carol Smith' via Google Summer of Code Mentors Announce List <gsoc-mentors-announce(a)googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 11:52 PM Subject: [GSoC Mentors Announce] Google Summer of Code 2016 To: GSoC Mentors Announce <gsoc-mentors-announce(a)googlegroups.com> Hi GSoC mentors and org admins, We've announced that we're holding Google Summer of Code 2016. The GSoC calendar, FAQ, and events timeline have all been updated with next year's important dates, so please refer to those for the milestones for the program. Please consider applying to participate as an organization again next year or maybe joining as a mentor for your favorite organization if they are selected to participate. We rely on you for your help for the success of this program, so thank you in advance for all the work you do! Cheers, Carol -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Summer of Code Mentors Announce List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to gsoc-mentors-announce+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/gsoc-mentors-announce. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Serge Stinckwich UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Oct. 16, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Thanks. Any code review or comments are welcomed. No interface now between fossil and grafoscopio. I just put all my STON files there, but STON + fossil is a combination you could consider also. Cheers, Offray On 15/10/15 23:00, Jimmie Houchin wrote: > Okay, I didn't know if you were referring to Grafoscopio or not. I did > not know it would be using Fossil for storage. > > I downloaded and will explore next week. > > Thanks. > > Jimmie > > > On 10/15/2015 05:37 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas wrote: >> Hi Jimmie, >> >> My idea is to connect Pharo with the external world, starting from >> what I need/know, but also I try to not use every single stuff in >> other languages. My main criteria for selecting from other ecosystems >> is simplicity. I want to make Pharo compatible with my own history >> (which is kind of similar to the ones of many non-pharoers), so that >> bridge can be crossed by others. >> >> This is the app I'm refering to: >> >> http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Offray/Grafoscopio >> >> Is the one I'm making to finally learn Smalltalk with limited time, >> so lots of rookie code everywhere, but works (mostly for me now). >> Hopefully I will have more time to learn and improve it. I have some >> text I have done using it, with open innovation and open/citizen >> science as themes (only in Spanish) and recently I made a proposal >> on how to use/extend it (I have been publicizing it in another thread >> but details are on [1]) >> >> [1] >> https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/data/entries/data-kitchen-frictionl… >> >> Cheers, >> >> Offray >> >> On 15/10/15 17:10, Jimmie Houchin wrote: >>> Hello Offray, >>> >>> If we didn't have the big push for GitHub. I would love to see a >>> Fossil source code interface for Pharo. If we had this we could >>> potentially replace SmalltalkHub with something more functional >>> almost instantly. This is a big assumption, but possibly correct. >>> But since it comes with a web ui it has a start. I just don't know >>> what would be involved in making it suitable for a community of >>> projects. I just find SmalltalkHub painful. I haven't actually >>> started using Fossil yet. Just watched the videos and began reading >>> the book and drinking the kool-aid. :) >>> >>> I do love how pro-active he is being in suggesting big things to >>> established products or ideas. >>> >>> While I am very pro doing as much stuff in Pharo as possible. ie: >>> not using every tool out there from other languages, Python, Ruby, etc. >>> >>> I do think it is a good thing when it comes to things like data >>> persistence to be ready to use solutions that help people feel >>> comfortable that they could have an exit strategy should Pharo some >>> how crash, go crazy, quit working or simply fade away like many >>> believe Smalltalk already has. It could make some people a little >>> more comfortable in a Pharo solution. >>> >>> He talks about LibreOffice and what benefits it could have if it >>> used SQLite rather than a pile of files for persistency. What if >>> Pharo was the app and SQLite the persistency for the document? We >>> could do our own office suite or whatever. We would have a portable, >>> future proof, application file format that people beyond the >>> Pharo/Smalltalk community could feel good about. >>> >>> Which app of yours are you referring to? >>> >>> Thanks for your input. >>> >>> Jimmie >>> >>> >>> On 10/15/2015 03:49 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas wrote: >>>> Hi Jimmie, >>>> >>>> Nice to see you exploring bridges between Pharo and the external >>>> world (that was my message about how I planned to contribute to >>>> pharo) and thanks for the reference about the "Git: just say no" >>>> video from Hipp (food for my rants with git possessed friends ;-) ). >>>> >>>> [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghtpJnrdgbo >>>> >>>> My app uses fossil for storage and exports documents in plain text >>>> using STON[2] format and with this combination I can have a remote >>>> storage facility which is also pretty portable (just depending on >>>> Pharo and a fossil portable binaries). Because I'm working with >>>> documents, STON files can have long text inside, which is treated >>>> by fossil like binaries and I had not have the time to explore some >>>> Sven's suggestions to make it diff friendly. Also I would like some >>>> yaml import export on Pharo (maybe via STON). Pharo + Yaml/STON + >>>> Fossil could bring us some kind of free schema, human readable, >>>> external and distributed storage system that can talk pretty well >>>> with the rest of the world. >>>> >>>> Anyway I just want to point that are more people interested in >>>> simple and external persistence using Hipps ideas and products. >>>> Maybe fossil + STON can work for you also. >>>> >>>> [2] https://github.com/svenvc/ston/blob/master/ston-paper.md >>>> >>>> Keep us posted, >>>> >>>> Offray >>>> >>>> On 15/10/15 12:58, Jimmie Houchin wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would >>>>> keep all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and >>>>> Pharo is great at persistence in the image. >>>>> >>>>> But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the >>>>> database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to >>>>> structure my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect >>>>> writing my own database. All of this to avoid using a "real" >>>>> database. >>>>> >>>>> Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do >>>>> not want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have >>>>> to install anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No >>>>> PostgreSQL or MongoDB installs. Keep it simple. >>>>> >>>>> This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas. >>>>> >>>>> In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of >>>>> applications come and go. >>>>> (and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older >>>>> than probably half the people here.) >>>>> >>>>> Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple >>>>> Works and Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at >>>>> work. We loved the ease and simplicity we could throw a database >>>>> together and just do stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I >>>>> still use weekly and sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I >>>>> am almost at the point that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks >>>>> 4 database. I will have to move my data. >>>>> >>>>> Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant >>>>> limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering. >>>>> >>>>> My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but >>>>> LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly >>>>> looked at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best >>>>> or right tool for the job. >>>>> >>>>> So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my >>>>> learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have >>>>> initially settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements >>>>> above. It is embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including >>>>> the database file I create. Very portable and easy to install >>>>> along with anything else in Pharo. >>>>> >>>>> SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A >>>>> trusted, reliable, external persistence that is as simple and >>>>> portable as is Pharo. >>>>> >>>>> Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how >>>>> he believes SQLite should be used and should not be used. >>>>> >>>>> SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk >>>>> >>>>> 2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application >>>>> File Format >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc >>>>> >>>>> The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he >>>>> says. I encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his >>>>> including his anti-git video. >>>>> I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would >>>>> be interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and >>>>> cons of using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on >>>>> GitHub. I may be the only one. But that isn't a biggie for me. >>>>> TL;DW (didn't watch) >>>>> Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence instead of >>>>> a (zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits. Examples in >>>>> videos as the wrong way, LibreOffice and git. >>>>> >>>>> I think using SQLite like this for Pharo would be an excellent >>>>> match. We gain all the benefits of SQLite, transactions, ACID. In >>>>> a tool that is nicely (non)licensed, and is used and trusted >>>>> generally by most all of the software world. >>>>> >>>>> For Pharo this buys us an excellent, simple, equally portable >>>>> persistence. It also buys us persistence that is trusted by people >>>>> who don't trust the image for their data. This could possible help >>>>> with people who explore Pharo but aren't comfortable about image >>>>> only. Now of course it won't help the Emacs or Vim, ... people. >>>>> >>>>> I am exploring the idea of using Pharo and SQLite for what I would >>>>> have previously used Apple/MS Works database for. At first it >>>>> would be building the app/project for my wife. And during and >>>>> after that project generalize some things to make a better out of >>>>> the box solution for like projects. >>>>> >>>>> Thoughts, opinions, ideas, wisdom. Any and all appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> Jimmie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > >

Oct. 16, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Updated Pharo By Example

by Dimitris Chloupis

"Yes we can ask oscar and after will host it also at books.pharo.org and in HTML version too as for all the other books. Damien P and Damien C are working on a better latex template for pillar generated books." great to hear, I think not just UPBE but the other books need to be the first thing a newcomer sees when he or she introduced into Pharo because I think Pharo documentation is far better today that it used to be 2 years ago and we need to show the people all the hard work we have done with it. "pay attention. I think that we should minimize UI elements and external frameworks because else we will have more work in 4 years from now. " What do you mean ? As you know I am a supporter of pharo modularity but I fail to see how that is related to UPBE and I dont think documenting external frameworks is the focus of UPBE anyway just document what there is in the pharo image by default at least the core stuff that an average user is most likely to use. By any forms of tutorials and articles I did not mean that I will cram those in UPBE, if they refer to external third party libraries then I will document them in another book. But I was referring to tutorials and articles concering things that are part of the pharo image and they are beginner orientated. For example I am looking at documentation about code critics, update to the pharo catalog docs, Versionner , Kommiter etc On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 2:11 PM stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > > Le 15/10/15 18:12, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : > > thanks guys > > I can compromise for the time being with the user not going to the website > , searching for doc and founding documentation for pharo 1.4 while the > version he/she has is pharo 5 when we already have a book that is fairly up > to date. > > Is there anyone responsible for the PBE website ? Can we make the change ? > > > Yes we can ask oscar and after will host it also at books.pharo.org and > in HTML version too as for all the other books. > Damien P and Damien C are working on a better latex template for pillar > generated books. > > > > > > Also please use this thread to post your blog posts and own tutorials I > could use for UPBE. I am in the process of reading the humaneassesment > documentation but I welcome also others. Any form of tutorial or article is > welcomed. > > > pay attention. I think that we should minimize UI elements and external > frameworks because else we will have more work in 4 years from now. > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 6:31 PM Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)inria.fr> > wrote: > >> >> Hi Dimitris, >> >> Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> writes: >> >> > First of all thanks to all the people helping with the documentation. >> > >> > Now I think its the time to replace the old PBE with UPBE, we dont >> > need to change the website just link to the newest pdf here >> >> I agree UPBE is important. I want to finish EnterprisePharo and the Mooc >> first and then focus on UPBE. I want to get printed copies of it in book >> stores as we did we the other books. This will take time, but with your >> help and the help of the community, we will get there. >> >> -- >> Damien Cassou >> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >> >> "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without >> losing enthusiasm." --Winston Churchill >> >> >

Oct. 16, 2015

CiteZen and Pharo 5 / Pharo4 tests

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

Hi, I wanted to use CiteZen, but there's no Pharo 5 version (wouldn't even load), so I tried Pharo 4 instead but the tests are not passing: all CZBibTest fail on MessageNotUnderstood: Metaclass>>allMethodsInCategory: is this known problem? Do I need to use a very specific build of Pharo 4? Thanks, Peter

Oct. 16, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Updated Pharo By Example

by stepharo

Le 15/10/15 18:12, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : > thanks guys > > I can compromise for the time being with the user not going to the > website , searching for doc and founding documentation for pharo 1.4 > while the version he/she has is pharo 5 when we already have a book > that is fairly up to date. > > Is there anyone responsible for the PBE website ? Can we make the > change ? Yes we can ask oscar and after will host it also at books.pharo.org and in HTML version too as for all the other books. Damien P and Damien C are working on a better latex template for pillar generated books. > > Also please use this thread to post your blog posts and own tutorials > I could use for UPBE. I am in the process of reading the > humaneassesment documentation but I welcome also others. Any form of > tutorial or article is welcomed. pay attention. I think that we should minimize UI elements and external frameworks because else we will have more work in 4 years from now. > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 6:31 PM Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)inria.fr > <mailto:damien.cassou@inria.fr>> wrote: > > > Hi Dimitris, > > Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com > <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> writes: > > > First of all thanks to all the people helping with the > documentation. > > > > Now I think its the time to replace the old PBE with UPBE, we dont > > need to change the website just link to the newest pdf here > > I agree UPBE is important. I want to finish EnterprisePharo and > the Mooc > first and then focus on UPBE. I want to get printed copies of it > in book > stores as we did we the other books. This will take time, but with > your > help and the help of the community, we will get there. > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without > losing enthusiasm." --Winston Churchill >

Oct. 16, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Updated Pharo By Example

by stepharo

Thanks a ***LOT*** I like the one per week at minimum idea and process. Le 15/10/15 14:42, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : > First of all thanks to all the people helping with the documentation. > > Now I think its the time to replace the old PBE with UPBE , we dont > need to change the website just link to the newest pdf here > > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/job/UpdatedPharoByExample… > > Because UPBE at this moment is light years ahead of PBE. I just added > doc for Spotter, Dark Theme, and the new Nautilus icons. > > If any of you wants to fix something on UPBE and does not have the > confidence to do it directly , because you dont understand Pillar or > you dont feel confident yet with Pharo you can still help me > tremendously by adding your comment , your corrected text or your > addition documentation as github issue here and I will put it in the > book ASAP. > > https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample/issues > > I will be resolving at least one issue per week from now on to make > sure that UPBE is being pushed forward and remains by far the most up > to date documentation of Pharo anywhere in this universe. But I cannot > guarantee for other universes. > > So please help , even a tiny bit of help is great because we can all > make Pharo far easier for newcomers with much better documentation and > expand UPBE to every direction. > > All hail Pharo !

Oct. 16, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] distributed peer2peer sharing app in Pharo

by Robert Withers

On 10/15/2015 09:32 PM, Evan Donahue wrote: > I remember looking at the project you mention when I was first researching > p2p in Pharo. I thought the project description sounded very interesting > (Trantor was actually begun with a similar use-case in mind), but alas I was > unable to find any information on it outside of the code. If anyone knows > more about what happened to that project, I'd be very curious. > > From a technical standpoint, as best I could tell from looking through said > code, DVG was an application that was designed to share one specific type of > immutable data across very adverse network conditions. All of the > engineering seemed to have gone into bypassing firewalls with UDP > hole-punching, routing messages around complex network topologies, etc. > > Trantor, by contrast, is best thought of as a framework for easily making > application data distributable, and a scheme for distributing it efficiently > over a network. The details of the network topology are somewhat orthogonal, > and there are many options for where to take it in the future. The actual > socket code in Trantor right now is a simple TCP direct connection. > > At some point I'd like to get some of the networking capabilities that DVG > has (such as the UDP hole-punching), and I think I saw a project that tried > to extract the networking part from the DVG application, but it seems to be > mostly a specific application, and not a general scheme for designing > arbitrary distributed applications. I would be most interested in this DVG as well, along with guidance on how to best utilize it in my application. If someone were to so share, I'm convinced it would rain goodness. Regards, R > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/distributed-peer2peer-sharing-app-in-Pharo-tp4855144p… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Oct. 16, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and VPS

by Jimmie Houchin

Thanks for all of the replies and suggestions. Thanks to the smart man in the room. I will explore DigitalOcean and setup up a droplet when ready. Thanks for the referral. Jimmie On 10/15/2015 02:20 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> On 15 Oct 2015, at 20:54, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> 2015-10-15 15:52 GMT-03:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: >>>> On 15 Oct 2015, at 20:24, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I use DigitalOcean, a 2 core-VPS with 1GB ram could host 10 concurrent >>>> images without any issues, other than the constant ~5% CPU use while >>>> idle. I/O was the bottleneck, so no race conditions between the >>>> different images. >>> I second that, even the smallest instance, 512 MB RAM at $5, is more than enough for a couple of Pharo images. Just try it. >>> >>> https://www.digitalocean.com/?refcode=6a0334a169dc >> You are smarter than me ;-) > ;-)

Oct. 16, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite

by Jimmie Houchin

Okay, I didn't know if you were referring to Grafoscopio or not. I did not know it would be using Fossil for storage. I downloaded and will explore next week. Thanks. Jimmie On 10/15/2015 05:37 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas wrote: > Hi Jimmie, > > My idea is to connect Pharo with the external world, starting from > what I need/know, but also I try to not use every single stuff in > other languages. My main criteria for selecting from other ecosystems > is simplicity. I want to make Pharo compatible with my own history > (which is kind of similar to the ones of many non-pharoers), so that > bridge can be crossed by others. > > This is the app I'm refering to: > > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Offray/Grafoscopio > > Is the one I'm making to finally learn Smalltalk with limited time, so > lots of rookie code everywhere, but works (mostly for me now). > Hopefully I will have more time to learn and improve it. I have some > text I have done using it, with open innovation and open/citizen > science as themes (only in Spanish) and recently I made a proposal on > how to use/extend it (I have been publicizing it in another thread but > details are on [1]) > > [1] > https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/data/entries/data-kitchen-frictionl… > > Cheers, > > Offray > > On 15/10/15 17:10, Jimmie Houchin wrote: >> Hello Offray, >> >> If we didn't have the big push for GitHub. I would love to see a >> Fossil source code interface for Pharo. If we had this we could >> potentially replace SmalltalkHub with something more functional >> almost instantly. This is a big assumption, but possibly correct. But >> since it comes with a web ui it has a start. I just don't know what >> would be involved in making it suitable for a community of projects. >> I just find SmalltalkHub painful. I haven't actually started using >> Fossil yet. Just watched the videos and began reading the book and >> drinking the kool-aid. :) >> >> I do love how pro-active he is being in suggesting big things to >> established products or ideas. >> >> While I am very pro doing as much stuff in Pharo as possible. ie: not >> using every tool out there from other languages, Python, Ruby, etc. >> >> I do think it is a good thing when it comes to things like data >> persistence to be ready to use solutions that help people feel >> comfortable that they could have an exit strategy should Pharo some >> how crash, go crazy, quit working or simply fade away like many >> believe Smalltalk already has. It could make some people a little >> more comfortable in a Pharo solution. >> >> He talks about LibreOffice and what benefits it could have if it used >> SQLite rather than a pile of files for persistency. What if Pharo was >> the app and SQLite the persistency for the document? We could do our >> own office suite or whatever. We would have a portable, future proof, >> application file format that people beyond the Pharo/Smalltalk >> community could feel good about. >> >> Which app of yours are you referring to? >> >> Thanks for your input. >> >> Jimmie >> >> >> On 10/15/2015 03:49 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas wrote: >>> Hi Jimmie, >>> >>> Nice to see you exploring bridges between Pharo and the external >>> world (that was my message about how I planned to contribute to >>> pharo) and thanks for the reference about the "Git: just say no" >>> video from Hipp (food for my rants with git possessed friends ;-) ). >>> >>> [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghtpJnrdgbo >>> >>> My app uses fossil for storage and exports documents in plain text >>> using STON[2] format and with this combination I can have a remote >>> storage facility which is also pretty portable (just depending on >>> Pharo and a fossil portable binaries). Because I'm working with >>> documents, STON files can have long text inside, which is treated by >>> fossil like binaries and I had not have the time to explore some >>> Sven's suggestions to make it diff friendly. Also I would like some >>> yaml import export on Pharo (maybe via STON). Pharo + Yaml/STON + >>> Fossil could bring us some kind of free schema, human readable, >>> external and distributed storage system that can talk pretty well >>> with the rest of the world. >>> >>> Anyway I just want to point that are more people interested in >>> simple and external persistence using Hipps ideas and products. >>> Maybe fossil + STON can work for you also. >>> >>> [2] https://github.com/svenvc/ston/blob/master/ston-paper.md >>> >>> Keep us posted, >>> >>> Offray >>> >>> On 15/10/15 12:58, Jimmie Houchin wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would >>>> keep all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and >>>> Pharo is great at persistence in the image. >>>> >>>> But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the >>>> database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to >>>> structure my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect >>>> writing my own database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database. >>>> >>>> Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do >>>> not want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have >>>> to install anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No >>>> PostgreSQL or MongoDB installs. Keep it simple. >>>> >>>> This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas. >>>> >>>> In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of >>>> applications come and go. >>>> (and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older >>>> than probably half the people here.) >>>> >>>> Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple >>>> Works and Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at >>>> work. We loved the ease and simplicity we could throw a database >>>> together and just do stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I >>>> still use weekly and sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I >>>> am almost at the point that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks >>>> 4 database. I will have to move my data. >>>> >>>> Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant >>>> limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering. >>>> >>>> My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but >>>> LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly >>>> looked at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or >>>> right tool for the job. >>>> >>>> So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my >>>> learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have >>>> initially settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements >>>> above. It is embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including >>>> the database file I create. Very portable and easy to install along >>>> with anything else in Pharo. >>>> >>>> SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A >>>> trusted, reliable, external persistence that is as simple and >>>> portable as is Pharo. >>>> >>>> Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how he >>>> believes SQLite should be used and should not be used. >>>> >>>> SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk >>>> >>>> 2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application >>>> File Format >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc >>>> >>>> The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he says. >>>> I encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his >>>> including his anti-git video. >>>> I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would >>>> be interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and cons >>>> of using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on GitHub. I >>>> may be the only one. But that isn't a biggie for me. >>>> TL;DW (didn't watch) >>>> Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence instead of a >>>> (zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits. Examples in >>>> videos as the wrong way, LibreOffice and git. >>>> >>>> I think using SQLite like this for Pharo would be an excellent >>>> match. We gain all the benefits of SQLite, transactions, ACID. In a >>>> tool that is nicely (non)licensed, and is used and trusted >>>> generally by most all of the software world. >>>> >>>> For Pharo this buys us an excellent, simple, equally portable >>>> persistence. It also buys us persistence that is trusted by people >>>> who don't trust the image for their data. This could possible help >>>> with people who explore Pharo but aren't comfortable about image >>>> only. Now of course it won't help the Emacs or Vim, ... people. >>>> >>>> I am exploring the idea of using Pharo and SQLite for what I would >>>> have previously used Apple/MS Works database for. At first it would >>>> be building the app/project for my wife. And during and after that >>>> project generalize some things to make a better out of the box >>>> solution for like projects. >>>> >>>> Thoughts, opinions, ideas, wisdom. Any and all appreciated. >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> Jimmie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > >

Oct. 16, 2015