- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Transcendental #new (was Re: why Pillar)

by Robert Withers

Here's the thing that gets my goat: I had already acknowledged it was enough for the list and was signing off further comment when Ben decided he really needed to add his two cents. It is unfortunate he did not spend his change in a positive manner but wished to be negative and critical. I was unwilling to let that go by as an implicit restriction on the substance of my posting, into the future. ...and the thread is twice as long. Not my doing. Some things must be challenged. Do you know what I mean, then? Just say no to intellectual coercion. robert On 12/27/2015 11:33 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > Hi Robert, > > I'm glad your found someone on the list to connect to on a spiritual level, > but could you please keep your public posts to technical matters, > (plus keep signatures short and trim old signatures from quoted > responses - which unfortunately threaded email clients like gmail > often hide) > > cheers -ben > > On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 2:15 AM, Robert Withers > <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> *My apologies...I'll try for #random. :)* >> >> nameste, >> robert >> >> >> -- >> There are five kinds of coloring (kleshas): >> 1) forgetting, or ignorance about the true nature of things (avidya), >> 2) I-ness, individuality, or egoism (asmita), >> 3) attachment or addiction to mental impressions or objects (raga), >> 4) aversion to thought patterns or objects (dvesha), and >> 5) love of these as being life itself, as well as fear of their loss as >> being death. >> (avidya asmita raga dvesha abhinivesha pancha klesha) >> >> >> On 12/27/2015 09:44 AM, Robert Withers wrote: >> >> I was thinking about this on my drive home, more, and I think that I was >> jumping the duck. #new is related to named classes, therefore in the analogy >> of brahma-loka, this is more of a rupa level behavior. The arupa level is >> there (and there is a #new at that level) but it deals with things that have >> no form, but by name only (#allInstancesDo:). >> >> cheers, >> robert >> >> --- >> >> And yet everything that is created does not rest in Me. >> Behold My mystic opulence! Although I am the maintainer >> of all living entities and although I am everywhere, I am >> not a part of this cosmic manifestation, for My Self is the >> very source of creation. >> >> >> >> >> On 12/26/2015 08:50 PM, Robert Withers wrote: >> >> On Dec 26, 2015, at 2:26 AM, SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: >> >> On Pet, 2015-12-25 at 15:59 -0500, Robert Withers wrote: >> >> Hello Robert, >> >> Good day SaÅ¡a, >> >> Welcome to Pharo! I view use of Pharo (squeak) as a knowledge >> sacrifice eliminating bondage to Karma. This is not the mainstream and >> a good thing too. >> >> Nice comparison...although, being at the beginning I still do not >> understand/see it as a sacrifice, but can feel it is liberating. >> >> I suppose I think that the expenditure of time, resources, concentration and >> effort constitute said sacrifice of knowledge as new broader knowledge >> supplants older limited knowledge. >> >> >> As an example, where is the root implementation of #new defined? Hint: >> it is close to Pharo's arupa-brahma-loka, the highest planes. ;) >> >> :-) >> >> Well I do think the meta system is the realms of brahma-loka, and that is >> split into rupa and arupa. Please let us know your thoughts on this >> speculation when you find #new! :-) >> >> Hare hare and Merry Christmas, >> >> Haribol and Happy New Year! >> >> Dhiyo yo nah prachodayat! >> >> --- >> But those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion, meditating on My >> transcendental formâto them I carry what they lack, and I preserve what they >> have. >> >> >> -- >> As a lamp in a windless place does not waver, so the transcendentalist, >> whose mind is controlled, remains always steady in his meditation on the >> transcendent self. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- Robert . .. ... ^,^

Dec. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Meta-models (Re: Transcendental #new (was Re: why Pillar))

by Robert Withers

Yes, here we are, all three models. Just like we have a bunch of languages from around the world, my wish is to see many meta-models for my higher stack layers, as many would not understand one or the other and can, in fact, create their own model through which they control their interactions with the One distriubuted cloud image-based Metaverse. Let us aim high. So to Pharo: How can I do this multi-model interactions on a real system, through multi-meme interactive fiction? Do you know what I mean, then? robert Military lens Cell lens Vedic lens On 12/27/2015 08:55 PM, Robert Withers wrote: > > > On 12/27/2015 01:50 PM, Johan Fabry wrote: >> On Dec 27, 2015, at 15:18, Robert Withers >> <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Alright, I ask you all. Which meta-model is acceptable for >>> practical work in my stack? I need a meta-model to describe it, or >>> rahter anyone should be able to skin the meta-model they want and >>> that makes most sense. These consciousness meta-models, or >>> meta-memes, from religious tradition are well-defined models. >> >> I have no opinion on this, this is a design question for your work, >> and not straightforwardly related to Pharo itself. In my opinion and >> apparently in the opinion of others as well, this is not a topic for >> this mailing list. Sending multiple mails to the list about it can be >> considered bad netiquette. > > I find it very unfortunate you sidestepped my question with a claim of > not only no opinion, but that it has no place on this list. > Intellectual dishonesty is a rather poor maneuver for one who claims > to be of an enlightened tribe. I object on the basis of principle. > > So, I would extend you another opportunity, which are valid > meta-models? Let's talk about meta-memes and meta-models within > Pharo's creative space. Shall it be the military analogy, then? How > unfortunate, I'd wish an alternative. > > Regards, > -- > Robert > . .. ... ^,^ -- Robert . .. ... ^,^

Dec. 28, 2015

Meta-models (Re: Transcendental #new (was Re: why Pillar))

by Robert Withers

On 12/27/2015 01:50 PM, Johan Fabry wrote: > On Dec 27, 2015, at 15:18, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com > <mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com>> wrote: >> Alright, I ask you all. Which meta-model is acceptable for practical >> work in my stack? I need a meta-model to describe it, or rahter >> anyone should be able to skin the meta-model they want and that makes >> most sense. These consciousness meta-models, or meta-memes, from >> religious tradition are well-defined models. > > I have no opinion on this, this is a design question for your work, > and not straightforwardly related to Pharo itself. In my opinion and > apparently in the opinion of others as well, this is not a topic for > this mailing list. Sending multiple mails to the list about it can be > considered bad netiquette. I find it very unfortunate you sidestepped my question with a claim of not only no opinion, but that it has no place on this list. Intellectual dishonesty is a rather poor maneuver for one who claims to be of an enlightened tribe. I object on the basis of principle. So, I would extend you another opportunity, which are valid meta-models? Let's talk about meta-memes and meta-models within Pharo's creative space. Shall it be the military analogy, then? How unfortunate, I'd wish an alternative. Regards, -- Robert . .. ... ^,^

Dec. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Smallworlds - Interactive Fiction Framework

by Eric Velten de Melo

This error is because you are loading Smallworlds-ColossalCave. It is a separate package and is not working. You don't need to load it. Em 27 de dez de 2015 23:15, "Alexandre Bergel" <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> escreveu: > Hi! > > Something is wrong. PetitParser is indeed loaded. I get an error: This > package depends on the following classes: > CommandParser > You must resolve these dependencies before you will be able to load these > definitions: > CCCommandParser > > Alexandre > > > > On Dec 27, 2015, at 9:13 PM, ericvm <ericvmelo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > You need to have PetitParser installed for it to work. > > > > ColossalCave is not ported, should be removed. > > > > I was not able to get the metacello cobfiguration working properly. > > > > But installing PetitParser and loading last commit of Smallworlds > package should be enough. > > > > To run cloak of darkness, type > > (AdventureShell world: (CDGameWorld new)) openWithSpec. > > > > Em 27 de dez de 2015 17:29, "abergel [via Smalltalk]" <[hidden email]> > escreveu: > > hi! > > > > I would like to try it, but I am facing some issues: > > - I cannot use your configuration on Pharo 5. I get an error > when trying to load the stable version > > - I therefore tried to manually load the two packages. But > Smallworlds-ColossalCave does not load. Some classes are missing. > > > > Cheers, > > Alexandre > > > > > > > On Dec 27, 2015, at 12:03 PM, ericvm <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > I don't know if this is the appropriate venue to do that, but I'd like > to > > > announce that I finished a stable implementation of a framework for > > > developing Interactive Fiction in Pharo Smalltalk. > > > > > > It is based on an old code written by Bob Jarvis for Dolphin, but it > has > > > been changed so much that it is almost something new. > > > > > > This is my first project and I'm still working around Metacello and > > > polishing stuff up. So I appreciate any code contributions, comments or > > > thoughts about it. > > > > > > It is hosted on Smalltalkhub: > > > (http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ericvm/Smallworlds) > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Smallworlds-Interactive-Fiction-Framework-tp4868560.h… > > > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion > below: > > > http://forum.world.st/Smallworlds-Interactive-Fiction-Framework-tp4868560p4… > > To unsubscribe from Smallworlds - Interactive Fiction Framework, click > here. > > NAML > > > > View this message in context: Re: Smallworlds - Interactive Fiction > Framework > > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > >

Dec. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Smallworlds - Interactive Fiction Framework

by Alexandre Bergel

Hi! Something is wrong. PetitParser is indeed loaded. I get an error: This package depends on the following classes: CommandParser You must resolve these dependencies before you will be able to load these definitions: CCCommandParser Alexandre > On Dec 27, 2015, at 9:13 PM, ericvm <ericvmelo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > You need to have PetitParser installed for it to work. > > ColossalCave is not ported, should be removed. > > I was not able to get the metacello cobfiguration working properly. > > But installing PetitParser and loading last commit of Smallworlds package should be enough. > > To run cloak of darkness, type > (AdventureShell world: (CDGameWorld new)) openWithSpec. > > Em 27 de dez de 2015 17:29, "abergel [via Smalltalk]" <[hidden email]> escreveu: > hi! > > I would like to try it, but I am facing some issues: > - I cannot use your configuration on Pharo 5. I get an error when trying to load the stable version > - I therefore tried to manually load the two packages. But Smallworlds-ColossalCave does not load. Some classes are missing. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > > On Dec 27, 2015, at 12:03 PM, ericvm <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > I don't know if this is the appropriate venue to do that, but I'd like to > > announce that I finished a stable implementation of a framework for > > developing Interactive Fiction in Pharo Smalltalk. > > > > It is based on an old code written by Bob Jarvis for Dolphin, but it has > > been changed so much that it is almost something new. > > > > This is my first project and I'm still working around Metacello and > > polishing stuff up. So I appreciate any code contributions, comments or > > thoughts about it. > > > > It is hosted on Smalltalkhub: > > (http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ericvm/Smallworlds) > > > > > > > > -- > > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smallworlds-Interactive-Fiction-Framework-tp4868560.h… > > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below: > http://forum.world.st/Smallworlds-Interactive-Fiction-Framework-tp4868560p4… > To unsubscribe from Smallworlds - Interactive Fiction Framework, click here. > NAML > > View this message in context: Re: Smallworlds - Interactive Fiction Framework > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Smallworlds - Interactive Fiction Framework

by ericvm

You need to have PetitParser installed for it to work. ColossalCave is not ported, should be removed. I was not able to get the metacello cobfiguration working properly. But installing PetitParser and loading last commit of Smallworlds package should be enough. To run cloak of darkness, type (AdventureShell world: (CDGameWorld new)) openWithSpec. Em 27 de dez de 2015 17:29, "abergel [via Smalltalk]" < ml-node+s1294792n4868585h86(a)n4.nabble.com> escreveu: > hi! > > I would like to try it, but I am facing some issues: > - I cannot use your configuration on Pharo 5. I get an error when > trying to load the stable version > - I therefore tried to manually load the two packages. But > Smallworlds-ColossalCave does not load. Some classes are missing. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > > On Dec 27, 2015, at 12:03 PM, ericvm <[hidden email] > <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4868585&i=0>> wrote: > > > > I don't know if this is the appropriate venue to do that, but I'd like > to > > announce that I finished a stable implementation of a framework for > > developing Interactive Fiction in Pharo Smalltalk. > > > > It is based on an old code written by Bob Jarvis for Dolphin, but it has > > been changed so much that it is almost something new. > > > > This is my first project and I'm still working around Metacello and > > polishing stuff up. So I appreciate any code contributions, comments or > > thoughts about it. > > > > It is hosted on Smalltalkhub: > > (http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ericvm/Smallworlds) > > > > > > > > -- > > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Smallworlds-Interactive-Fiction-Framework-tp4868560.h… > > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion > below: > > http://forum.world.st/Smallworlds-Interactive-Fiction-Framework-tp4868560p4… > To unsubscribe from Smallworlds - Interactive Fiction Framework, click > here > <http://forum.world.st/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=unsubscribe_by_code&no…> > . > NAML > <http://forum.world.st/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instan…> > -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smallworlds-Interactive-Fiction-Framework-tp4868560p4… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] why Pillar

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Hi Gour, It seems that I have some similar quest to you, so I will try to answer about my approximation to documentation in the Pharo worl, even with the existance of Pillar (but being by no means any kind of expert on it, and of course this is my own experience, your mileage may vary). On 25/12/15 11:02, SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka wrote: > Hiya, > > I see that Pharo project has embraced Pillar system for documentation > purposes and my first question was "Why Pillar?" since, iirc, comparison > was made with e.g Markdown which is, obviously, not sufficient for eg. > authoring books, but there are more capable markups with 'standard' > implementations like rst/Sphinx and Asciidoc(tor). > > Then I thought it must be some deeper reason, iow. something suitable to > work more closely with Pharo itself. > > Now I have two questions: > > 1) Can someone answer in more detail "Why Pillar?" and Seems that the reasons exposed in this tread are: It predated markdown, so was already used inside the community, and gives us finer control on the overall markup language, including exporting formats. I have tested several light markup languages for documentation including markdown, reST, AsciiDoc, dokuwiki, wikimedia, tiddly wiki, text2tags (t2), among others. There are several features that are desirable in many of them, like nice evoking notations of t2t and dokuwiki, wide support for exporting formats of reST, readability of AsciiDoc regarding extending features, the spread of Media wiki or nice modular approach to documentation of tiddly wiki. Surely the two reasons for pillar are also good ones. How do you balance this options? Before reentering Pharo I was thinking in something like an extensible light markup language, like t2t, but instead of using regular expression (t2t uses them), it would use something like yaml[1] and a processor of these serialized data for different exporters. The idea of combining light markup languages for documentation and data serialization seems to become more popular these days. Two projects implement this idea Pandoc[2] and Grav[3] and both use a combination of markdown and yaml. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAML [2] http://pandoc.org/ [3] http://getgrav.org/ So, how this could be combined with the offerings of Pharo? My bet is on pandoc (markdown+yaml) for writing almost anything, with some advantages over pillar: a. It has a bigger momentum with projects like scholarly markdown ([4] http://scholmd.org/) b. It has support for bibliographic references, footnotes a a more complete feature set. The finer control would be offered by using abstract syntax trees (AST) for more detailed manipulation, which is already used to extend pandoc with languages like ruby, lua, perl (see examples in [5] http://pandoc.org/scripting.html) and could be used, theoretically with Pharo. That's where metamodels used by Pillar could be used, so we could extend pandoc inside Pharo, while using markdown + yaml as a common language to write prose with other authors beyond this community, because Pillar is used only here, while markdown is becoming more used as a cross-community language for documentation, including Jupyter notebooks that combine documentation with languages like R, Julia, Haskell or Python. This lead me to your next point: > > 2) For some time I was considering whether to settle on using rst or > AsciiDoc for *all* my writings, which means blog posts, my study notes, > preparing books, writing articles etc. > > Since I've settled to use Python-powered static-site-generator (Nikola) > along with reStructuredText markup which can call external 'compilers' > to process blog posts written in specific markup, I wonder if it would > be possible to use Pillar markup with it since it seems there is cli for > it? I have been using Nikola myself and keeping myself under a more cohesive python environment for making my publishing and scripting/programming exploration. That changed after knowing Pharo/Roassal/Moose and now I try to "live inside" these technologies most of the time for my own interactive documentation and visualization project[6] and connect with the external world via standards & formats like Json, cvs, yaml and markdown. That's why now I'm using grav instead of Nikola for my web publishing. Ecstatic have more powerful things like a logic-less approach to templating via mustache, that is neutral to the underlaying language, while grav templating is tied to php, but grav seems more developed and with more ready to use templates or skeletons for web publishing, so, once installed, you barely touch any underlaying technology beyond markup languages. More details on the transition/combination of grav/nikola can be found on [7]. [6] http://mutabit.com/grafoscopio/index.en.html [7] http://mutabit.com/offray/blog/es/entry/2015-10-06-grav-nikola-both So, while I think that choosing Pharo technologies is better for making them more mature, tested and used, I also think that is important to choose proper balance to know which combination of Pharo technologies and external ones is adequate. That depends on each user. In my case, living inside Pharo for almost anything and choosing markdown + yaml for writing and publishing (via pandoc and grav) have worked very well and could be a working combination for you also. That doesn't preclude further exploration and use of other related Pharo technologies like Pillar and Ecstatic, but this could be made in the future via metamodels/ASTs or as a way to extend/modify the way Pharo interacts or integrates with the external world... well I'm getting kind of philosophical here, but that would be my middle term approach on publishing and markup languages. Cheers, Offray Ps: Would you mind to share more details about your project. The questions you're asking for it are pretty interesting.

Dec. 27, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Transcendental #new (was Re: why Pillar)

by Robert Withers

Thank you Offray, for a way out of this dreadful conversation of opposition to free-thinking. Ahh, irony. You make an exceelent observation of some limitations you say you have also run into and your thoughtful solution to this. best, -- Robert . .. ... ^,^ On 12/27/2015 01:54 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas wrote: > Robert, > > I'm a newbie myself on this community, with near to a year in it, but > not as active participation as I would like (I regret to answer back > as quick as I get some feedback, but I'm trying to improve), so I > don't know myself. I think that communities tend to be different on > the way they behave according to on-topic or off-topic views. In the > case of the Leo community, is not unusual some kind of public > monologue about how to solve some issues, sharing "notes to myself" > with all the list. In the case of Pharo/Moose the meta reflection > seems better in places like blog post. I found this in my own case > while asking questions in the Moose mailing list in long posts where I > give a lot of background information and those did take a lot to be > answered or where ignored at all. I remember that one meta-question I > made to the list was "Am I asking wrong?" and after that I decided to > test this combination of long background or panoramic/extra reflexions > on blog post with more specific short questions in the respective > mailing list or chat channel. I got better feedback in all channels > (chat, mailing lists and blog comments) with this combination. See and > example here: > > http://mutabit.com/offray/static/blog/output/posts/grafoscopio-idea-and-ini… > > Hope this helps, > > Offray > > On 27/12/15 13:18, Robert Withers wrote: >> Wait a second here. Let's be clear. In your first paragraph you say >> no need to feel that I am censored or ostracized, then the second >> paragraph you censor me. >>

Dec. 27, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Smallworlds - Interactive Fiction Framework

by Alexandre Bergel

hi! I would like to try it, but I am facing some issues: - I cannot use your configuration on Pharo 5. I get an error when trying to load the stable version - I therefore tried to manually load the two packages. But Smallworlds-ColossalCave does not load. Some classes are missing. Cheers, Alexandre > On Dec 27, 2015, at 12:03 PM, ericvm <ericvmelo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I don't know if this is the appropriate venue to do that, but I'd like to > announce that I finished a stable implementation of a framework for > developing Interactive Fiction in Pharo Smalltalk. > > It is based on an old code written by Bob Jarvis for Dolphin, but it has > been changed so much that it is almost something new. > > This is my first project and I'm still working around Metacello and > polishing stuff up. So I appreciate any code contributions, comments or > thoughts about it. > > It is hosted on Smalltalkhub: > (http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ericvm/Smallworlds) > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smallworlds-Interactive-Fiction-Framework-tp4868560.h… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 27, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] up to date library to access facebook api

by Alexandre Bergel

Never heard about it. Alexandre > On Dec 27, 2015, at 5:11 AM, stvienna wiener <stvienna(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > hi, > > is there a up to date library to access the facebook API ('graph api')? The facebook api had major changes in April 2015, so any library that wasn't updated in the last few months is probably not working at all. > > > I looked at this place to find a library: > http://smalltalkhub.com/list > > If there is not a library available, what libraries (e.g., rest client libraries for accessing json APIs) should I use to build my own code? > > Best, > Steve > > PS: this is my first message to pharo mailing list, I'm new... -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 27, 2015