- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Slow object printOn: with EURO symbol

by Hilaire

Le 05/01/2016 14:38, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©crit : > The problem can does also be restated: it is really necessary for a tool to convert 1000s of items to strings, even if only 10s are shown at the same time on a screen ? > > I believe that fast table tries to do better here. But I need to show 1000s of them once, all in the same view, at the same time. Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Jan. 5, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Browsing shortucts

by Dimitris Chloupis

looks like that it does not contain the global shortcuts like how you open the playground etc all am i still missing something ? On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 4:12 PM Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I am an idiot , sorry, I though you were talking about nautilus shortcut > dialog > > yeah thats what i am looking for 200+ shortcuts > > ok so I was wrong , still not bad at all :) > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 4:04 PM Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> 2016-01-05 14:42 GMT+01:00 David Allouche <david(a)allouche.net>: >> >>> Strangely, I am not able get any response from Ctrl-TAB, which is >>> essential to tab out of a text widget. >>> >>> Looking with the inspector, it looks like it SHOULD do what I need, but >>> it appears that the keyboard event does not get there. >>> >>> How can I get a transcript output for every detected keyboard event? I >>> suspect that maybe something system-wide in MacOS is intercepting the event. >>> >> >> At high level, do >> >> KMLog setDebug >> >> (and get a transcript open) >> >> to stop it, do >> >> KMLog removeDebug. >> >> (This will give you Keymapping behavior, but remember that: any app can >> add a key processing on a morph instance manually, and that many morphs >> have hardwired shortcuts such as navigation keys) >> >> At a lower level, you can trace or add a watchpoint inside: >> >> HandMorph>>#generateKeyboardEvent: >> >> Use that if you don't see your ctrl+tab at the Keymapping level. >> >> Thierry >> >> >>> >>> >>> On 5 Jan 2016, at 14:35, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> nope thats only the shortcuts of nautilus , a tiny fraction >>> >>> so what I did was the following >>> >>> Open playground and inspect >>> >>> KMKeymap allInstances . >>> >>> and it returns me >>> >>> 538 >>> >>> now unless those are duplicates as well, which i doubt from the looks of >>> it it that means we have 6 shortcuts more than emacs, so pharo has more >>> shortcuts than emacs >>> >>> >>> http://superuser.com/questions/768540/how-many-keyboard-shortcuts-are-in-em… >>> >>> ah the irony is too strong in this one >>> >>> Please correct me if i am wrong because this is huge news for me :D >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 3:22 PM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> World Menu > System > Keymap Browser ? >>>> >>>> > On 05 Jan 2016, at 14:16, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Hey guys I remember a way to open the inspector for browsing all >>>> available keyboard shortcuts in pharo but I cannot find it via google, >>>> anyone remembers the way to do this ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>

Jan. 5, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Browsing shortucts

by Dimitris Chloupis

I am an idiot , sorry, I though you were talking about nautilus shortcut dialog yeah thats what i am looking for 200+ shortcuts ok so I was wrong , still not bad at all :) On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 4:04 PM Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2016-01-05 14:42 GMT+01:00 David Allouche <david(a)allouche.net>: > >> Strangely, I am not able get any response from Ctrl-TAB, which is >> essential to tab out of a text widget. >> >> Looking with the inspector, it looks like it SHOULD do what I need, but >> it appears that the keyboard event does not get there. >> >> How can I get a transcript output for every detected keyboard event? I >> suspect that maybe something system-wide in MacOS is intercepting the event. >> > > At high level, do > > KMLog setDebug > > (and get a transcript open) > > to stop it, do > > KMLog removeDebug. > > (This will give you Keymapping behavior, but remember that: any app can > add a key processing on a morph instance manually, and that many morphs > have hardwired shortcuts such as navigation keys) > > At a lower level, you can trace or add a watchpoint inside: > > HandMorph>>#generateKeyboardEvent: > > Use that if you don't see your ctrl+tab at the Keymapping level. > > Thierry > > >> >> >> On 5 Jan 2016, at 14:35, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> nope thats only the shortcuts of nautilus , a tiny fraction >> >> so what I did was the following >> >> Open playground and inspect >> >> KMKeymap allInstances . >> >> and it returns me >> >> 538 >> >> now unless those are duplicates as well, which i doubt from the looks of >> it it that means we have 6 shortcuts more than emacs, so pharo has more >> shortcuts than emacs >> >> >> http://superuser.com/questions/768540/how-many-keyboard-shortcuts-are-in-em… >> >> ah the irony is too strong in this one >> >> Please correct me if i am wrong because this is huge news for me :D >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 3:22 PM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> >> wrote: >> >>> World Menu > System > Keymap Browser ? >>> >>> > On 05 Jan 2016, at 14:16, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Hey guys I remember a way to open the inspector for browsing all >>> available keyboard shortcuts in pharo but I cannot find it via google, >>> anyone remembers the way to do this ? >>> >>> >>> >>

Jan. 5, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Browsing shortucts

by Thierry Goubier

2016-01-05 14:42 GMT+01:00 David Allouche <david(a)allouche.net>: > Strangely, I am not able get any response from Ctrl-TAB, which is > essential to tab out of a text widget. > > Looking with the inspector, it looks like it SHOULD do what I need, but it > appears that the keyboard event does not get there. > > How can I get a transcript output for every detected keyboard event? I > suspect that maybe something system-wide in MacOS is intercepting the event. > At high level, do KMLog setDebug (and get a transcript open) to stop it, do KMLog removeDebug. (This will give you Keymapping behavior, but remember that: any app can add a key processing on a morph instance manually, and that many morphs have hardwired shortcuts such as navigation keys) At a lower level, you can trace or add a watchpoint inside: HandMorph>>#generateKeyboardEvent: Use that if you don't see your ctrl+tab at the Keymapping level. Thierry > > > On 5 Jan 2016, at 14:35, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > nope thats only the shortcuts of nautilus , a tiny fraction > > so what I did was the following > > Open playground and inspect > > KMKeymap allInstances . > > and it returns me > > 538 > > now unless those are duplicates as well, which i doubt from the looks of > it it that means we have 6 shortcuts more than emacs, so pharo has more > shortcuts than emacs > > > http://superuser.com/questions/768540/how-many-keyboard-shortcuts-are-in-em… > > ah the irony is too strong in this one > > Please correct me if i am wrong because this is huge news for me :D > > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 3:22 PM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > >> World Menu > System > Keymap Browser ? >> >> > On 05 Jan 2016, at 14:16, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > Hey guys I remember a way to open the inspector for browsing all >> available keyboard shortcuts in pharo but I cannot find it via google, >> anyone remembers the way to do this ? >> >> >> >

Jan. 5, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Browsing shortucts

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 05 Jan 2016, at 14:35, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > nope thats only the shortcuts of nautilus , a tiny fraction How so ? This is part of what it shows on 50511 Clearly not just Nautilus, but many elements and components of the system. Are we looking at the same thing ?

Jan. 5, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Browsing shortucts

by David Allouche

Strangely, I am not able get any response from Ctrl-TAB, which is essential to tab out of a text widget. Looking with the inspector, it looks like it SHOULD do what I need, but it appears that the keyboard event does not get there. How can I get a transcript output for every detected keyboard event? I suspect that maybe something system-wide in MacOS is intercepting the event. > On 5 Jan 2016, at 14:35, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > nope thats only the shortcuts of nautilus , a tiny fraction > > so what I did was the following > > Open playground and inspect > > KMKeymap allInstances . > > and it returns me > > 538 > > now unless those are duplicates as well, which i doubt from the looks of it it that means we have 6 shortcuts more than emacs, so pharo has more shortcuts than emacs > > http://superuser.com/questions/768540/how-many-keyboard-shortcuts-are-in-em… <http://superuser.com/questions/768540/how-many-keyboard-shortcuts-are-in-em…> > > ah the irony is too strong in this one > > Please correct me if i am wrong because this is huge news for me :D > > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 3:22 PM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu <mailto:sven@stfx.eu>> wrote: > World Menu > System > Keymap Browser ? > > > On 05 Jan 2016, at 14:16, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > Hey guys I remember a way to open the inspector for browsing all available keyboard shortcuts in pharo but I cannot find it via google, anyone remembers the way to do this ? > >

Jan. 5, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Slow object printOn: with EURO symbol

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 05 Jan 2016, at 14:26, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > > Agree. > Nevertheless, the performance impact I got on OOP way of doing things > can't be wiped out: when you ask an object to give its text > representation but use non latin1 character, you get an important > penalty. In the long term, it looks like a problem for Pharo. No, that is not 100% correct. You can use any Unicode anywhere tranparantly and the performance penalty is low. Pharo supports Unicode everywhere for 100% (given you use the right font). The problem occurs only when you take a collection of 1000s of these objects in a tool that wants to convert them all at once but separately to strings. Then the cumulative performance penalty becomes quite noticeable, true. The problem can does also be restated: it is really necessary for a tool to convert 1000s of items to strings, even if only 10s are shown at the same time on a screen ? I believe that fast table tries to do better here. > Hilaire > > > Le 05/01/2016 13:20, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©crit : >> 0450822759String with ByteString and WideString subclasses has been a standard feature of Squeak/Pharo for a long time. The transparent automatic conversion between the two is a feature, not a limitation. >> >> In se, there is nothing wrong with it. >> >> Yes, other representations of Strings are possible, but is is far from sure that they would be faster overall. The current implementation favours Latin1 (and thus ASCII), because that is so common. In my work image I count them as follows: >> >> ByteString allInstances size. "301498" >> >> WideString allInstances size. "136" >> >> That is less than 0.05%. >> >>> On 05 Jan 2016, at 13:08, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: >>> >>> Le 04/01/2016 11:05, Henrik Johansen a Ã©crit : >>>> In the fallback code for WriteStream >> #nextPut:, at:put: is called, so yes, streaming a wide char causes the streams collection to be converted from Byte to WideString. >>>> Conversion is done using become, which currently triggers a full heap scan for references, and is thus very slow. >>>> One could add a fast-path along the lines of #pastEndPut: (which has already broken any assumption that a reference to the collection will reflect all writes for the lifetime of stream, for the same performance problems one would face using #become:); if collection is a ByteString and anObject is a wide characters, replace collection with a WideString, and *then* call at:put: >>>> But, it is not a very nice thing to add to a generic streaming class, nor is it a very attractive at this point in time considering that making become: a fast operation is one of the problems solved by Spur. >>> So wait and see for Spur? >>> To not forget about it, it is recorded here, and it should be kept open >>> for later check: >>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17315/Slow-object-printOn-with-EURO-symbol >>> >>> It is possible to turn around this problem, but this sort of annoyance >>> with Pharo internal encoding regularly arises, so I am not sure what to >>> think about the state of Pharo regarding internal encoding. Now days is >>> not supposed to be all utf-8? >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Hilaire >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Geo >>> http://drgeo.eu >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu

Jan. 5, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Browsing shortucts

by Dimitris Chloupis

nope thats only the shortcuts of nautilus , a tiny fraction so what I did was the following Open playground and inspect KMKeymap allInstances . and it returns me 538 now unless those are duplicates as well, which i doubt from the looks of it it that means we have 6 shortcuts more than emacs, so pharo has more shortcuts than emacs http://superuser.com/questions/768540/how-many-keyboard-shortcuts-are-in-em… ah the irony is too strong in this one Please correct me if i am wrong because this is huge news for me :D On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 3:22 PM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > World Menu > System > Keymap Browser ? > > > On 05 Jan 2016, at 14:16, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Hey guys I remember a way to open the inspector for browsing all > available keyboard shortcuts in pharo but I cannot find it via google, > anyone remembers the way to do this ? > > >

Jan. 5, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Determining if a Process is waiting on a Semaphore

by Guillermo Polito

Ben, did that help you? > On 30 dic 2015, at 12:49 p.m., Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > A bit more on that: > > Processor activeProcess suspendingList. => nil âAn active process has nil as a list" > Processor activeProcess isSuspended. => true?? > > > p := [ ] forkAt: 30. > p suspendingList. => âthe list where it is waiting ready to run" > p isSuspended. => false? > > s := Semaphore new. > p := ([ s wait ] forkAt: 50). > p suspendingList. => âthe semaphore where it is waiting to be unsuspended, since a semaphore is a list" > p isSuspended. => false? > > It is evident that a suspended process has the list where it is waiting, and the active process has nil. > Then, I think the problem is that isSuspended is wrong. > > isSuspended > ^myList isNil or: [ myList isEmpty ] > > When it should be maybe > > isSuspended > ^myList notNil > > > Am I wrong? > > Then, to actually answer your question, you can check if you are waiting in a semaphore or not, you can compare that the suspendingList is = to the semaphore. Of course we should also revise the API ^^. > > s := Semaphore new. > p := ([ s wait ] forkAt: 50). > p suspendingList == s > > Guille > > >> On 30 dic 2015, at 5:35 a.m., Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >> >> Looking at at the primitive comment in... >> Semaphore>>wait >> "excessSignals>0 >> ifTrue: [excessSignals := excessSignals-1] >> ifFalse: [self addLastLink: Processor activeProcess suspend]" >> >> I expected/hoped the following... >> Transcript clear. >> s := Semaphore new. >> p := [ Transcript crShow: '1'. s wait. Transcript crShow: '2' ] forkAt: 50. >> Transcript crShow: p isSuspended. >> s signal. >> >> would produce >> 1 >> true >> 2 >> >> but I get >> 1 >> false >> 2 >> >> How do I determine from another thread if a Process is waiting on a >> Semaphore, or even better, waiting on a particular semaphore? >> >> cheers -ben >> >

Jan. 5, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Slow object printOn: with EURO symbol

by Hilaire

Agree. Nevertheless, the performance impact I got on OOP way of doing things can't be wiped out: when you ask an object to give its text representation but use non latin1 character, you get an important penalty. In the long term, it looks like a problem for Pharo. Hilaire Le 05/01/2016 13:20, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©crit : > 0450822759String with ByteString and WideString subclasses has been a standard feature of Squeak/Pharo for a long time. The transparent automatic conversion between the two is a feature, not a limitation. > > In se, there is nothing wrong with it. > > Yes, other representations of Strings are possible, but is is far from sure that they would be faster overall. The current implementation favours Latin1 (and thus ASCII), because that is so common. In my work image I count them as follows: > > ByteString allInstances size. "301498" > > WideString allInstances size. "136" > > That is less than 0.05%. > >> On 05 Jan 2016, at 13:08, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: >> >> Le 04/01/2016 11:05, Henrik Johansen a Ã©crit : >>> In the fallback code for WriteStream >> #nextPut:, at:put: is called, so yes, streaming a wide char causes the streams collection to be converted from Byte to WideString. >>> Conversion is done using become, which currently triggers a full heap scan for references, and is thus very slow. >>> One could add a fast-path along the lines of #pastEndPut: (which has already broken any assumption that a reference to the collection will reflect all writes for the lifetime of stream, for the same performance problems one would face using #become:); if collection is a ByteString and anObject is a wide characters, replace collection with a WideString, and *then* call at:put: >>> But, it is not a very nice thing to add to a generic streaming class, nor is it a very attractive at this point in time considering that making become: a fast operation is one of the problems solved by Spur. >> So wait and see for Spur? >> To not forget about it, it is recorded here, and it should be kept open >> for later check: >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17315/Slow-object-printOn-with-EURO-symbol >> >> It is possible to turn around this problem, but this sort of annoyance >> with Pharo internal encoding regularly arises, so I am not sure what to >> think about the state of Pharo regarding internal encoding. Now days is >> not supposed to be all utf-8? >> >> Thanks >> >> Hilaire >> >> -- >> Dr. Geo >> http://drgeo.eu >> >> >> > > -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Jan. 5, 2016