- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Can you help me find this info?

by Dimitris Chloupis

Performance wise Pharo is doing very well on that front because its one of the very few dynamic languages to come with a JIT VM. Generally speaking because you are talking about games, it will depend on the game. Both Android and iOS they rely heavily on C libraries, libraries that Pharo can use. So performance is not our problem nor we need hardware VM support because graphics are already heavily hardware accelerated. The problem for pharo is support of those platforms, like multi touch, a more multi touch friendly GUI etc. Generally speaking expect to get your hands dirty on making C libraries working with Pharo on those platforms a lot more than worrying about VM speed. Even for heavy 3d games would could use something like Unreal or Unity together with Pharo. On iOS it may be an issue because Apple allows for a single executable. So the problem here is not speed, its the diffirent way of doing things on those platforms that would require a lot of boilercode to make things work smoothly. This is why game devs prefer using something like Unity and Unreal that are well tested and offer all those luxuries outside the box without you having to worry about that. On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 12:31 PM Victor RENE <victor-rene.dev(a)outlook.com> wrote: > Hello, > > I am new to Pharo and would like to understand a few things. > I can search by myself, but I do not know the code base yet, so: > > [Questions] > Pharo image: > Serialization, deserialization, where is the code? > Pharo vm (Cog/Spur): > Rendering loop and event loops. done with SDL2, where is the code? > Message passing, object hierarchy lookup, where is the code? > Pharo minimal: > How to get a working version? The builds I tried (4.0) crashed. > > [Purpose] > My goal is work out an image/vm with minimum overhead. For example, > let's say I want to build a modern multi-touch application. > Pharo's environment looks promising on the live coding/debugging side, > but what about the performance? Lack of responsiveness would not be > acceptable (think about design differences between Android/iOS). > > [Context] > I want to understand if the object oriented nature of Smalltalk is > the reason for the lack of apps of this nature (as far as I can tell). > For example, games have been done with Lisp: Jack and Daxter (on the PS2, > by Naughty Dogs). There are also game engines for the JVM > (https://www.lwjgl.org/) > Dedicated hardware has been built for either Lisp or Forth. I can't seem > to find any hardware built specifically to power Smalltalk software. > Yet as far as I can tell, it's the big time for software virtual machines, > because the new generation of hardware will be supporting them. > (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10032295) > > UPDATE: I am reading through "Evaluating message passing control techniques > in Smalltalk" ( > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/2440118_Evaluating_Message_Passing… > ). > I am getting a better picture of the whole, please direct to more such > papers. > > Thanks, > > Victor RENE > Software engineer, > Game designer, Writer > > Blog: http://victor-rene.com > Projects: http://logiqub.com > > tel: +33 6 26 83 61 76 > email: victor-rene(a)outlook.com > >

May 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Web browsing automation

by Dimitris Chloupis

My project is basically a unification of python and pharo by allowing pharo to use python libraries. That means that one would have to have knowledge of python and the python library used. Its a simple socket bridge with which pharo can communicate with python and say "hey python do this for me and return me the result". This problem seems to me to be more suitable for BeautifulSoup https://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/bs4/doc/ which has been ported to Pharo but it seems to no longer be in SmalltalkHub I can only find it here http://www.squeaksource.com/@-SEx5I4XPThwdDpe/-yS8D9eS On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 2:12 PM Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > As far as I know: > > Pharo has event recorder that helps automate within imageâ¦ however the > bigger problem here is interaction with the environment, which is a big > problem cross-platform. > > This is all assuming that you _must_ click on it and you can't just > retrieve-html/parse/extract/download/repeat which is doable in Pharo with > Zinc and some non-validating parser. > > If you don't find anything, you can take a look at PyAutoGUI > https://pyautogui.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ (or xdotool on linux). > > I believe Kilon worked on some python bindings from Pharo? It would be > interesting to ask him what was that exactlyâ¦ maybe it could be connected > to this lib. > > > Peter > > On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Grigory Hatsevich <g.hatsevich(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Suppose I have a web page with 50 small photos; when I click on a photo, >> appears a window where I can further click on a link to open a full profile >> of the person on a photo. I need to open a full profile for every person in >> that page, each in a separate browser tab. How can I automate this >> clicking, so that I would not need to click at every link manually? Does >> Pharo have tools for such tasks? >> >> >

May 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Web browsing automation

by Grigory Hatsevich

Thanks. I will be happy with either way - clicks automation or "retrieve-html/parse/extract/download/repeat"; I just want to find the most convenient way (e.g. quick and simple). I do not have any experience with html parsing; maybe you could point at some relevant examples / tutorial? Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> Ð¿Ð¸ÑÐ°Ð»(Ð°) Ð² ÑÐ²Ð¾ÑÐ¼ Ð¿Ð¸ÑÑÐ¼Ðµ Wed, 04 May 2016 14:11:01 +0300: > As far as I know: > > Pharo has event recorder that helps automate within imageâ¦ however the > bigger problem here is interaction with the environment, which is a big > >problem cross-platform. > > This is all assuming that you _must_ click on it and you can't just > retrieve-html/parse/extract/download/repeat which is doable in Pharo > with Zinc >and some non-validating parser. > > If you don't find anything, you can take a look at PyAutoGUI > https://pyautogui.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ (or xdotool on linux). > > I believe Kilon worked on some python bindings from Pharo? It would be > interesting to ask him what was that exactlyâ¦ maybe it could be > >connected to this lib. > > > Peter > > On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Grigory Hatsevich > <g.hatsevich(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Suppose I have a web page with 50 small photos; when I click on a >> photo, appears a window where I can further click on a link to open a >> full >>profile of the person on a photo. I need to open a full profile >> for every person in that page, each in a separate browser tab. How can >> I automate >>this clicking, so that I would not need to click at every >> link manually? Does Pharo have tools for such tasks?

May 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Web browsing automation

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

As far as I know: Pharo has event recorder that helps automate within imageâ¦ however the bigger problem here is interaction with the environment, which is a big problem cross-platform. This is all assuming that you _must_ click on it and you can't just retrieve-html/parse/extract/download/repeat which is doable in Pharo with Zinc and some non-validating parser. If you don't find anything, you can take a look at PyAutoGUI https://pyautogui.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ (or xdotool on linux). I believe Kilon worked on some python bindings from Pharo? It would be interesting to ask him what was that exactlyâ¦ maybe it could be connected to this lib. Peter On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Grigory Hatsevich <g.hatsevich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Suppose I have a web page with 50 small photos; when I click on a photo, > appears a window where I can further click on a link to open a full profile > of the person on a photo. I need to open a full profile for every person in > that page, each in a separate browser tab. How can I automate this > clicking, so that I would not need to click at every link manually? Does > Pharo have tools for such tasks? > >

May 4, 2016

Web browsing automation

by Grigory Hatsevich

Suppose I have a web page with 50 small photos; when I click on a photo, appears a window where I can further click on a link to open a full profile of the person on a photo. I need to open a full profile for every person in that page, each in a separate browser tab. How can I automate this clicking, so that I would not need to click at every link manually? Does Pharo have tools for such tasks?

May 4, 2016

[Post] adding custom method icons

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

Hi, if you wondered how you can add your own method icon/action to Nautilus, well wonder no more. :) â http://peteruhnak.com/blog/2016/05/04/custom-method-icons/ Peter

May 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Documentation about Pharo Launcher?

by Damien Cassou

Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> writes: > I would like to made one of my images available through Pharo > Launcher. Anyone knows where I can find documentation about this? I > can't find anything on the StHub page for the project. I agree with both Serge and CÃ©drick. Their solution is easy and the best practice for any Pharo development (regardless of the launcher): - write a ConfigurationOf using Versionner - add a job to https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/ (just create an account at http://ci.inria.fr and request to join pharo-contribution). As soon as the job builds successfully, you will see it in the Launcher. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." --Winston Churchill

May 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Can you help me find this info?

by stepharo

Le 2/5/16 Ã 11:30, Victor RENE a Ã©crit : > Hello, > > I am new to Pharo and would like to understand a few things. > I can search by myself, but I do not know the code base yet, so: > > [Questions] > Pharo image: > Serialization, deserialization, where is the code? Are you talking about image or serialization of objects? > Pharo vm (Cog/Spur): > Rendering loop and event loops. done with SDL2, where is the code? Look at OSWindows in Pharo we are in transition. > Message passing, object hierarchy lookup, where is the code? in the VM > Pharo minimal: > How to get a working version? The builds I tried (4.0) crashed. Can you tell us more? We have different systems - miniimage which is built automatically by removing packges and this is working so may be you use the wrong vm. - bootstrapped kernels will be in production in Pharo 60 - specialized image we got down to 11k for 2+3 and 18k for 20 factorial this is experimental but hyper fun. [Purpose] > My goal is work out an image/vm with minimum overhead. For example, > let's say I want to build a modern multi-touch application. Yes we build that for Thales > Pharo's environment looks promising on the live coding/debugging side, > but what about the performance? It depends what you want to do. if this is real time, Pharo is not a real time os After Thales are migrating to Pharo for their "prototype" of new interactive UI. > Lack of responsiveness would not be > acceptable (think about design differences between Android/iOS). We should do a pass on the Android VM and its event. > > [Context] > I want to understand if the object oriented nature of Smalltalk is > the reason for the lack of apps of this nature (as far as I can tell). Lack of Marketing is the reason. Not the technology. Squeak run on PS2 in 300 k back in 2002 or befor. > For example, games have been done with Lisp: Jack and Daxter (on the PS2, > by Naughty Dogs). There are also game engines for the JVM > (https://www.lwjgl.org/) > Dedicated hardware has been built for either Lisp or Forth. I can't seem > to find any hardware built specifically to power Smalltalk software. > Yet as far as I can tell, it's the big time for software virtual machines, > because the new generation of hardware will be supporting them. > (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10032295) I do not know. > > UPDATE: I am reading through "Evaluating message passing control > techniques > in Smalltalk" > (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/2440118_Evaluating_Message_Passing…) > I am getting a better picture of the whole, please direct to more such > papers. it is an old paper. When I arrived from CLOS I wanted to know if I could do the same. Now I know and we can certainly do better at the MOP level. > > Thanks, > > Victor RENE > Software engineer, > Game designer, Writer > > Blog: http://victor-rene.com > Projects: http://logiqub.com > > tel: +33 6 26 83 61 76 > email: victor-rene(a)outlook.com

May 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] #ast vs. #parseTree

by Marcus Denker

> On 01 May 2016, at 14:45, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > Marcus Denker-4 wrote >> #ast returns a result from the cache, while #parseTree always gets a new >> oneâ¦ > > Ah, okay. What is the difference? That is, how/when is the cache updated? > -> added on first call of #ast -> cleaned on image shutdown. This is not yet really good, but works amazingly well for being so simple. I want to change it to be LRU and not grow too largeâ¦ clients that are interested in persisting the AST (e.g. due to annotations) do that now already to survive shutdown. E.g. if you put a breakpoint, the AST of *that* method will survive shutdownâ¦ so a LRU cache would not change that. > > Marcus Denker-4 wrote >> Yes, it could be better. Like always. > > :) I will add commentsâ¦ and the API should be improved, too, but not now. Marcus

May 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Securely downloading Pharo

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

I guess you could download it from the Jenkins job https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-5.0-Update-Step-5-Publish/lastSuccessfu… although the job itself downloads over http from files.pharo.orgâ¦ but Jenkins should be fine enough if you are worried about MitM between you and Pharo. For SHA you still need a secure connection assuming the website wouldn't get compromised, or digitally signed releases assuming the signing won't be misconfigured, or the keys won't get compromised. But I agree that this should be solved, or at least improved; but then again whole smalltalkhub doesn't use https and you are sending your credentials in plaintext over the network (have fun committing from a hotel room wifi)â¦ security through obscurity can be incredibly efficient. Of course that means that we need someone with the time and knowledge that can invest effort into this. Peter On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 12:33 AM, Wilfred Hughes <me(a)wilfred.me.uk> wrote: > Is there any way of downloading Pharo securely? > > I'm trying to download Pharo itself over HTTPS, so I know I can trust the > data: > > $ wget https://files.pharo.org/platform/Pharo4.0-linux.zip > --2016-05-02 22:44:34-- > https://files.pharo.org/platform/Pharo4.0-linux.zip > Resolving files.pharo.org (files.pharo.org) 128.93.162.72 > Connecting to files.pharo.org (files.pharo.org)|128.93.162.72|:443... > connected. > OpenSSL: error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown > protocol > Unable to establish SSL connection. > > The excellent pharo zeroconf script doesn't seem available over HTTPS > either: > > $ curl https://get.pharo.org/vm50 > curl: (35) error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown > protocol > > Looking at the script itself, it's downloading files over HTTP from > files.pharo.org and executing them without verifying. I've explored > files.pharo.org, but I can't see any signatures or hashes (e.g. > sha256sum) of any of the files. > > The pharo homepage is largely available at https://pharo.org/ > (although some of the styling is missing due to being served over > HTTP). > > Have I missed something? Would it be possible to provide HTTPS and/or > sha256sums for downloads? > > > Wilfred > >

May 3, 2016