- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 24 May 2016, at 16:22, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >> On 24 May 2016, at 16:16, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> thanks for the info Thierry where I can find the minimal image ? > > > Pharo 6.0 minimal image <http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-minimal.zip> â¦ but since the shrinking process is not working, it has the same size as the full version :) > > Esteban >

May 24, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 24 May 2016, at 16:16, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > thanks for the info Thierry where I can find the minimal image ? Pharo 6.0 minimal image <http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-minimal.zip> Esteban

May 24, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

by Pavel Krivanek

2016-05-24 15:18 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > Well technically the python part works fine, BUT I also always wanted it > to be friendly to begineers . So nope , its same project. And you are > correct its still focused in coding 3d graphics but I came to realisation > that if I want some people to use it, obviously i dont expect the massive > majority to give up the comforts of python but for those that are curious I > have to provide an enviroment thats is even easier to code in than python > is currently for Blender. > > My goal is to provide a development enviroment for Blender addons that is > simple, and easy to use and learn. > > So providing a minimal pharo image that is self documented has always > being a dream for Ephestos. > > By the way whats the news on the matter of modular pharo image ? Is there > any work done to provide a minimal pharo image ? > Hi, work is in progress: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/6.0-SysConf/ The first image with GUI that is usable from the user point of view is ConfigurationOfUI. Give us few weeks to finish it... -- Pavel > > I would hate to replicate what is already done. > > On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:59 PM Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis >> <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > So I was reading the complains from Sven and got Inspiration from >> Torsten >> > Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we had an image which >> has >> > the least amount of libraries and every library inside it is full >> commented >> > in class, package and method and even has tutorial using inside help >> tool. >> > >> > So I think I will give this project a try. I know there is a plan to >> make >> > pharo image more modular, but modularity does not equal minimalism , >> > simplicity and ease of use. >> > >> > I think I will follow the CUIs example and do the development via >> Github. >> > >> > But I am open to ideas and suggestions. >> > >> > My intention is to remove the excess fat, to make Pharo prettier >> (improve >> > theme support and make available several themes ) and to have everything >> > commented and self documented. >> > >> > Obviously this will be a long term project and in no way a walk in the >> park >> > but I was looking for a nice project to name "Ephestos" :D seem as good >> as >> > any >> >> Did this project not pane out?... >> >> https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/ephestos-using-and-coding-blen… >> >> Seems you're quite attached to that name :) >> but is there a minor chance of confusion? >> >> cheers -ben >> >>

May 24, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 24 May 2016, at 16:11, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > 2016-05-24 15:18 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>>: > Well technically the python part works fine, BUT I also always wanted it to be friendly to begineers . So nope , its same project. And you are correct its still focused in coding 3d graphics but I came to realisation that if I want some people to use it, obviously i dont expect the massive majority to give up the comforts of python but for those that are curious I have to provide an enviroment thats is even easier to code in than python is currently for Blender. > > My goal is to provide a development enviroment for Blender addons that is simple, and easy to use and learn. > > So providing a minimal pharo image that is self documented has always being a dream for Ephestos. > > By the way whats the news on the matter of modular pharo image ? Is there any work done to provide a minimal pharo image ? > > There is a minimal image, which is I think usable as-is, except that what you want is something in between the minimal image (no gui, no tools) and a full image, and that is a bit complex to set-up. > > I started some work on doing that with Pharo4 (put a place with baselines I could use to load the HEAD of the Pharo main repository and load the right packages), but Pharo5 changed the way external projects are included, and my approach wasn't good anymore. > > I think the overall Pharo organisation could benefit from such an effort; it would exercise all the planned mechanisms for the modular image, in maybe an easier way than a modular full image, and with someone motivated to debug and maintain the process: you! honestly, I wouldnât. working in a parallel image is too much work (believe me, I know something about keeping an image going). Pavel and Christophe are working on the bootstrap process who should be working in one-two months, with that, building custom images will be finally a realityâ¦from there you might want to give it a try. But I would better invest on document (something that you have been doing very well and Iâm very thankful for that) than in keeping alive what is, in fact, a fork. cheers, Esteban > > Thierry > > > > > I would hate to replicate what is already done. > > On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:59 PM Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com <mailto:btc@openinworld.com>> wrote: > On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis > <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> wrote: > > So I was reading the complains from Sven and got Inspiration from Torsten > > Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we had an image which has > > the least amount of libraries and every library inside it is full commented > > in class, package and method and even has tutorial using inside help tool. > > > > So I think I will give this project a try. I know there is a plan to make > > pharo image more modular, but modularity does not equal minimalism , > > simplicity and ease of use. > > > > I think I will follow the CUIs example and do the development via Github. > > > > But I am open to ideas and suggestions. > > > > My intention is to remove the excess fat, to make Pharo prettier (improve > > theme support and make available several themes ) and to have everything > > commented and self documented. > > > > Obviously this will be a long term project and in no way a walk in the park > > but I was looking for a nice project to name "Ephestos" :D seem as good as > > any > > Did this project not pane out?... > https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/ephestos-using-and-coding-blen… <https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/ephestos-using-and-coding-blen…> > > Seems you're quite attached to that name :) > but is there a minor chance of confusion? > > cheers -ben > >

May 24, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

by Dimitris Chloupis

thanks for the info Thierry where I can find the minimal image ? On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 5:12 PM Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2016-05-24 15:18 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > >> Well technically the python part works fine, BUT I also always wanted it >> to be friendly to begineers . So nope , its same project. And you are >> correct its still focused in coding 3d graphics but I came to realisation >> that if I want some people to use it, obviously i dont expect the massive >> majority to give up the comforts of python but for those that are curious I >> have to provide an enviroment thats is even easier to code in than python >> is currently for Blender. >> >> My goal is to provide a development enviroment for Blender addons that is >> simple, and easy to use and learn. >> >> So providing a minimal pharo image that is self documented has always >> being a dream for Ephestos. >> >> By the way whats the news on the matter of modular pharo image ? Is there >> any work done to provide a minimal pharo image ? >> > > There is a minimal image, which is I think usable as-is, except that what > you want is something in between the minimal image (no gui, no tools) and a > full image, and that is a bit complex to set-up. > > I started some work on doing that with Pharo4 (put a place with baselines > I could use to load the HEAD of the Pharo main repository and load the > right packages), but Pharo5 changed the way external projects are included, > and my approach wasn't good anymore. > > I think the overall Pharo organisation could benefit from such an effort; > it would exercise all the planned mechanisms for the modular image, in > maybe an easier way than a modular full image, and with someone motivated > to debug and maintain the process: you! > > Thierry > > > > >> >> I would hate to replicate what is already done. >> >> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:59 PM Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis >>> <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> > So I was reading the complains from Sven and got Inspiration from >>> Torsten >>> > Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we had an image which >>> has >>> > the least amount of libraries and every library inside it is full >>> commented >>> > in class, package and method and even has tutorial using inside help >>> tool. >>> > >>> > So I think I will give this project a try. I know there is a plan to >>> make >>> > pharo image more modular, but modularity does not equal minimalism , >>> > simplicity and ease of use. >>> > >>> > I think I will follow the CUIs example and do the development via >>> Github. >>> > >>> > But I am open to ideas and suggestions. >>> > >>> > My intention is to remove the excess fat, to make Pharo prettier >>> (improve >>> > theme support and make available several themes ) and to have >>> everything >>> > commented and self documented. >>> > >>> > Obviously this will be a long term project and in no way a walk in the >>> park >>> > but I was looking for a nice project to name "Ephestos" :D seem as >>> good as >>> > any >>> >>> Did this project not pane out?... >>> >>> https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/ephestos-using-and-coding-blen… >>> >>> Seems you're quite attached to that name :) >>> but is there a minor chance of confusion? >>> >>> cheers -ben >>> >>>

May 24, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

by Thierry Goubier

2016-05-24 15:18 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > Well technically the python part works fine, BUT I also always wanted it > to be friendly to begineers . So nope , its same project. And you are > correct its still focused in coding 3d graphics but I came to realisation > that if I want some people to use it, obviously i dont expect the massive > majority to give up the comforts of python but for those that are curious I > have to provide an enviroment thats is even easier to code in than python > is currently for Blender. > > My goal is to provide a development enviroment for Blender addons that is > simple, and easy to use and learn. > > So providing a minimal pharo image that is self documented has always > being a dream for Ephestos. > > By the way whats the news on the matter of modular pharo image ? Is there > any work done to provide a minimal pharo image ? > There is a minimal image, which is I think usable as-is, except that what you want is something in between the minimal image (no gui, no tools) and a full image, and that is a bit complex to set-up. I started some work on doing that with Pharo4 (put a place with baselines I could use to load the HEAD of the Pharo main repository and load the right packages), but Pharo5 changed the way external projects are included, and my approach wasn't good anymore. I think the overall Pharo organisation could benefit from such an effort; it would exercise all the planned mechanisms for the modular image, in maybe an easier way than a modular full image, and with someone motivated to debug and maintain the process: you! Thierry > > I would hate to replicate what is already done. > > On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:59 PM Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis >> <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > So I was reading the complains from Sven and got Inspiration from >> Torsten >> > Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we had an image which >> has >> > the least amount of libraries and every library inside it is full >> commented >> > in class, package and method and even has tutorial using inside help >> tool. >> > >> > So I think I will give this project a try. I know there is a plan to >> make >> > pharo image more modular, but modularity does not equal minimalism , >> > simplicity and ease of use. >> > >> > I think I will follow the CUIs example and do the development via >> Github. >> > >> > But I am open to ideas and suggestions. >> > >> > My intention is to remove the excess fat, to make Pharo prettier >> (improve >> > theme support and make available several themes ) and to have everything >> > commented and self documented. >> > >> > Obviously this will be a long term project and in no way a walk in the >> park >> > but I was looking for a nice project to name "Ephestos" :D seem as good >> as >> > any >> >> Did this project not pane out?... >> >> https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/ephestos-using-and-coding-blen… >> >> Seems you're quite attached to that name :) >> but is there a minor chance of confusion? >> >> cheers -ben >> >>

May 24, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

by Dimitris Chloupis

Well technically the python part works fine, BUT I also always wanted it to be friendly to begineers . So nope , its same project. And you are correct its still focused in coding 3d graphics but I came to realisation that if I want some people to use it, obviously i dont expect the massive majority to give up the comforts of python but for those that are curious I have to provide an enviroment thats is even easier to code in than python is currently for Blender. My goal is to provide a development enviroment for Blender addons that is simple, and easy to use and learn. So providing a minimal pharo image that is self documented has always being a dream for Ephestos. By the way whats the news on the matter of modular pharo image ? Is there any work done to provide a minimal pharo image ? I would hate to replicate what is already done. On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:59 PM Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis > <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > So I was reading the complains from Sven and got Inspiration from Torsten > > Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we had an image which has > > the least amount of libraries and every library inside it is full > commented > > in class, package and method and even has tutorial using inside help > tool. > > > > So I think I will give this project a try. I know there is a plan to make > > pharo image more modular, but modularity does not equal minimalism , > > simplicity and ease of use. > > > > I think I will follow the CUIs example and do the development via Github. > > > > But I am open to ideas and suggestions. > > > > My intention is to remove the excess fat, to make Pharo prettier (improve > > theme support and make available several themes ) and to have everything > > commented and self documented. > > > > Obviously this will be a long term project and in no way a walk in the > park > > but I was looking for a nice project to name "Ephestos" :D seem as good > as > > any > > Did this project not pane out?... > > https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/ephestos-using-and-coding-blen… > > Seems you're quite attached to that name :) > but is there a minor chance of confusion? > > cheers -ben > >

May 24, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

by Ben Coman

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > So I was reading the complains from Sven and got Inspiration from Torsten > Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we had an image which has > the least amount of libraries and every library inside it is full commented > in class, package and method and even has tutorial using inside help tool. > > So I think I will give this project a try. I know there is a plan to make > pharo image more modular, but modularity does not equal minimalism , > simplicity and ease of use. > > I think I will follow the CUIs example and do the development via Github. > > But I am open to ideas and suggestions. > > My intention is to remove the excess fat, to make Pharo prettier (improve > theme support and make available several themes ) and to have everything > commented and self documented. > > Obviously this will be a long term project and in no way a walk in the park > but I was looking for a nice project to name "Ephestos" :D seem as good as > any Did this project not pane out?... https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/ephestos-using-and-coding-blen… Seems you're quite attached to that name :) but is there a minor chance of confusion? cheers -ben

May 24, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] [Article] Speeding up factorial computation by changing the order of multiplications

by Thierry Goubier

2016-05-24 11:03 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > > On 24 May 2016, at 10:55, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Hi Sven. > > > > Using '((self + upper) / 2 ) truncated' seems to be a little bit faster > than 'self + upper bitshift: -1'. > > Is it ? > Yes, just not by much and it avoids explaining that we use bitshift: there because n << 1 is usually much faster in C with a lousy compiler on a micro-controller. > > Even so, you probably agree that that calculation involving the bounds > that are not large integers is totally irrelevant in the light of the heavy > multiplications of large integers with thousands of digits, no ? > Then there is no reason to use a cryptic optimisation that doesn't optimise anything, no? > > That is why I also said that the recursion cost is (probably) acceptable. > > Anyway, if you want to freak out, go read the Fast Factorial Functions > website mentioned at the end > > http://www.luschny.de/math/factorial/FastFactorialFunctions.htm > > It is totally humbling (for me anyway) > No. High performance versions of numerical/signal/image/video processing codes are so complex usually for performance reasons that such a list is not surprising. The cleverness of some of the solutions are humbling, yes. To be able to make such a difference as you did with a few lines, however, is significant. Because it makes it easily integrated. Thierry > > > Thierry > > > > > > > > 2016-05-24 9:57 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > I just published a short, introduction level article, > > > > Speeding up factorial computation by changing the order of > multiplications. > > > > This is a story about a small, seemingly innocent code change that > speeds up a very simple computation. It is pretty magical and serves as an > example of how things are not always what they seem. > > > > > https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/speeding-up-factorial-computation-by-ch… > > > > Enjoy, > > > > Sven > > > > -- > > Sven Van Caekenberghe > > Proudly supporting Pharo > > http://pharo.org > > http://association.pharo.org > > http://consortium.pharo.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

May 24, 2016

An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

by Dimitris Chloupis

So I was reading the complains from Sven and got Inspiration from Torsten Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we had an image which has the least amount of libraries and every library inside it is full commented in class, package and method and even has tutorial using inside help tool. So I think I will give this project a try. I know there is a plan to make pharo image more modular, but modularity does not equal minimalism , simplicity and ease of use. I think I will follow the CUIs example and do the development via Github. But I am open to ideas and suggestions. My intention is to remove the excess fat, to make Pharo prettier (improve theme support and make available several themes ) and to have everything commented and self documented. Obviously this will be a long term project and in no way a walk in the park but I was looking for a nice project to name "Ephestos" :D seem as good as any

May 24, 2016