- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Territorial

by phil＠highoctane.be

Stef latching. Known thing. Get over it. Just happens. Grow a thicker skin. And s/<offensive>//g Phil On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:44 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Personally I dont mind you being rude to me, I am a lawyer , by profession > I am thick skinned. Busy ? being there done that. And we all snap from time > to time and I agree doing is usually more than important that talking , but > , there is always a BUT. > > In any case I dont want to drag the issue its just I care for Pharo maybe > not much as you do since I have not invested as much as you have but I do > think talking is also important it helps people get more confident in being > part of a community , this in term can lead to motivation to being active > contributors. When I joined Pharo community I got a lot of encouragement > from people here for my efforts , it may be talk, but emotionally is very > important to know that people appreciate your work and respect you as a > person. > > A small advise from a person that happens to see what having too many > responsibilities can do to a person, take care yourself because the effects > of overworking are not immediate , it will get much worse down the road > unless you make yourself a priority. > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:46 PM stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> About my tone may I ask a question? Yes sometimes I feel irritated. I'm >> human and I feel irritated. >> >> May be you know the trick that some smart manager use to control the >> length of meetings... >> >> I experienced in our team in the past meetings with 18 people and one guy >> was always talking a lot more than others. And I was always asking myself: >> does it have conscience that each minute he is taking is in fact 18 min >> because we could all spend 1 min doing something else. >> >> After that I heard about team that have strange clock where the clock is >> multiplying by the amount of participants. >> >> So when I participate to meetings I always think about what is the value >> that I bring to other time. >> >> Now we are all busy, you see some people in our team and outside told me >> that they do not have the time to follow Pharo mailing-lists because there >> are too many emails. And we all lose because the insights of such people >> could be really great. >> >> So some alternatives: >> >> - do not care do not read the pharo mailing-list, I would not feel >> happy with such solution. >> >> - be forced to react when something wrong is said because this is >> important for everybody. And yes sometimes I'm irritated because I feel >> forced to say something.I have the impression that not saying anything is a >> kind of luxury that I do not have. >> >> - have a closed contributors only mailing-list (not good does not >> feel nice). >> >> >> This license point is key and this is why I reacted. And I reacted that >> way because I CARE about our system and I CARE about our communitee. >> >> Out there, there is Java, Lua, Python, Ruby, Swift, Objective-C and many >> more. So we should pay attention to our ecosystem and the license >> >> is an integral part of it. >> >> So sorry to be rude but I'm ***REALLY*** busy. Much more than you can >> imagine. Even more. And I feel responsible. >> >> >> Stef >> >> >> >> Le 7/9/16 Ã 14:40, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : >> >> Ironically enough "this is our way , take it or leave it" would not work >> for Pharo because its smalltalk and basically smalltalk by architecture >> allow you to deeply modify the system from the get go. >> >> This make Pharo technically impossible to control from a dictator and >> committee point of view like lets say Python or Linux. CPython is a single >> implementation , but with pharo every pharo app is essentially a new pharo >> implementation. The moment you modify or extend the pharo image you make a >> new pharo implementation. >> >> I don't like the tone Stef is expressing , he is quite rude and >> definitely does not represent the tone of the community which far more open >> to dialogue but he is correct , GPL would never have worked for Pharo. >> Actually I dont think I have seen a language that is fairly popular under a >> GPL license. >> >> There is of course software under GPL which is sucessful commercially, >> Blender is an example, but GPL does not cover 3d assets, music and sound. >> In that case you use another kind of license like creative commons or >> heavily modify GPL to extend beyond code. So it was definitely not GPL that >> made Blender popular, actually it caused a problem with game developers >> because games using the BGE (Blender Game Engine) were at first considered >> data because the code was packaged inside the blend file which had a binary >> format so that meant it was not covered by GPL because it considered the >> whole game code just data (there is a separate executable for loading the >> game code) but then Blender decided to change this also to GPL with >> extending its license and that pretty much killed commercial games made >> with Blender. >> >> So technically you could get away with GPLing Pharo because you could >> argue that Pharo image is merely data that the VM loads and not real source >> code, which is kinda correct but it would be messy and the legal >> interpretation very confusing and uncertain ( leaves a lot of room for >> legal interpretation ) . As a company you cannot risk this , especially >> while you expect to make big profit. >> >> As stef said GPL is like a virus, it spread anywhere it touches. Even if >> all you do is add a tiny bit of GPL code inside the Pharo image would turn >> the entire Pharo implementation including the VM into GPL and because Pharo >> tries to approach as many companies as possible as most other languages do >> , because money helps improve the popularity and the quality of the code, >> MIT is definitely the way to do. >> >> So its more a "have to" than a "must to". >> >> Also double license or not its kinda pointless, the moment something >> becomes MIT you can be rest assured that people will pick MIT over GPL. >> This because you can turn MIT to GPL but you cannot turn GPL to MIT. So >> even if you want your project GPLed , MIT is still more than enough and of >> course most people will pick MIT for commercial apps so they don't need to >> open source their code. >> >> So no, it does not matter that Spec is double licensed , or if it is >> legal that is double licensed , since its active implementation is MIT this >> all you need to know. >> >> So for Pharo and pretty much almost all other programming languages out >> there who aspire to be used by as many people as possible and play an >> active role in the software market MIT like license is a mandatory choice. >> The irony of people not wanting to open source their code but wanting to >> use open source code. Its this type of thinking that justifies the >> existence of GPL. >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 2:59 PM Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas < >> offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> >>> On 07/09/16 13:39, stepharo wrote: >>> > >>> >> We should not have "The Pharo Way" (TM) or "No way!"... suddenly >>> >> Markus talk about feedback loops comes to mind, particularly the >>> >> slide on page 53, regarding "An open source smalltalk ignoring all >>> >> community contributions"[2]. This is far for being the case in this >>> >> community and we can keep that scenario at safe distance, if we show >>> >> options. So, dual license is an option, git is an option, markdown is >>> >> an option. Pharo as a place with options is one where Pharo can >>> >> fulfill its vision for more people. Let's make these options visible >>> >> and figure out the way the work better for a wider community. >>> > It is amazing how you like talking. >>> > >>> >>> Yes. I like. Is the way to know unwritten history. Not all the people in >>> the community know the details as you do, so talking is the way of going >>> out of misconceptions, like mine about dual license or state positions, >>> like why I don't use Pillar. The "it has been discussed, this is our >>> way, take or leave it" doesn't help in understanding way. So yes, I'm >>> all about encouraging dialog/talk if it helps to understand. >>> >>> Bye, >>> >>> Offray >>> >>> >>

Sept. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] SpecBooklet: Strange behavior of ProtocolBrowser

by Johan Fabry

Hello Matteo, are you using the ProtocolBrowser class that comes default with Pharo 5? (In the Spec-Examples package). This is different from what is in the booklet, the code in Pharo 5 is not up to date. For now, you should define a new protocol browser class (MyProtocolBrowser for example) and the other classes that are in that section. Sorry for that... -- Does this mail seem too brief? Sorry for that, I donât mean to be rude! Please see http://emailcharter.org <http://emailcharter.org/> . Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > On Sep 7, 2016, at 18:57, Matteo via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > From: Matteo <matteob8(a)yahoo.it> > Subject: SpecBooklet: Strange behavior of ProtocolBrowser > Date: September 7, 2016 at 18:56:08 GMT-3 > To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > > > Hi, > I'm playing with the ProtocolBrowser class, as coded in the > "SpecBooklet.pdf" document (release of the 3rd August 2016). > I'm using Pharo 5. > > I'm experiencing a strange behavior of the ProtocolBrowser instance: > -if I open a ProtocolBrowser instance, and I click on a "api" item, I > do not get any code in the text pane. > -If I open another ProtocolBrowser instance then I do not see any code, > even in the "api" protocol than the "api-events" one. > -If I open a further instance then the widget works correctly, showing > the "api" or "api-events" code in the text pane. > > Please note that the ProtocolBrowser is instantiated as follow: > (ProtocolBrowser new) openWithSpec > > Could my Pharo image be faulty? > Is there some problem with ProtocolBrowser>>initializePresenter? > > Thanks, > Matteo Bellotto > > > > >

Sept. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Lint Rule for Class-Side Method

by Yuriy Tymchuk

> On 07 Sep 2016, at 23:41, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > Uko2 wrote >> What are you using to obtain critiques? > > CriticBrowser Ok, can you also, please, clarify which version of Pharo are you using? > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Lint-Rule-for-Class-Side-Method-tp4914121p4914674.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Sept. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec: InputWidget question

by Johan Fabry

Apologies for not being clear in my mail. The key is that the UI is being opened as a dialog box, generating the OK and Cancel buttons. All this logic is explained in the section "Opening a dialog box and its configuration optionsâ. This also talks about configuring what to do when these buttons are clicked. -- Does this mail seem too brief? Sorry for that, I donât mean to be rude! Please see http://emailcharter.org . Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > On Sep 7, 2016, at 18:07, Brad Selfridge <bsselfridge(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Read the chapter. Being new to Spec, I'm still confused because I don't see > clear evidence in the chapter that would fix the problems that are occurring > in the InputWidget. > > I did, however, read your documentation referring to the TextFieldInputModel > example. After reading that, I created a TextPrompterWidget, (which is a > direct copy of InputWidget). I changed the super class to > DynamicComposableModel. I modified the "initializeWidgets" method, removed > the "OK" method, and made a few other small modifications and got the widget > to work as expected. I DID have to open the widget with "openDialogWithSpec" > as that was the only way to auto-magically get the OK-Cancel toolbar widget. > I'd share my code if you want. > > > > ----- > Brad Selfridge > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Spec-InputWidget-question-tp4914439p4914673.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Sept. 7, 2016

SpecBooklet: Strange behavior of ProtocolBrowser

by Matteo

Hi, I'm playing with the ProtocolBrowser class, as coded in the "SpecBooklet.pdf" document (release of the 3rd August 2016). I'm using Pharo 5. I'm experiencing a strange behavior of the ProtocolBrowser instance: -if I open a ProtocolBrowser instance, and I click on a "api" item, I do not get any code in the text pane. -If I open another ProtocolBrowser instance then I do not see any code, even in the "api" protocol than the "api-events" one. -If I open a further instance then the widget works correctly, showing the "api" or "api-events" code in the text pane. Please note that the ProtocolBrowser is instantiated as follow: (ProtocolBrowser new) openWithSpec Could my Pharo image be faulty? Is there some problem with ProtocolBrowser>>initializePresenter? Thanks, Matteo Bellotto

Sept. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Lint Rule for Class-Side Method

by Sean P. DeNigris

Uko2 wrote > What are you using to obtain critiques? CriticBrowser ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Lint-Rule-for-Class-Side-Method-tp4914121p4914674.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Sept. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec: InputWidget question

by Brad Selfridge

Read the chapter. Being new to Spec, I'm still confused because I don't see clear evidence in the chapter that would fix the problems that are occurring in the InputWidget. I did, however, read your documentation referring to the TextFieldInputModel example. After reading that, I created a TextPrompterWidget, (which is a direct copy of InputWidget). I changed the super class to DynamicComposableModel. I modified the "initializeWidgets" method, removed the "OK" method, and made a few other small modifications and got the widget to work as expected. I DID have to open the widget with "openDialogWithSpec" as that was the only way to auto-magically get the OK-Cancel toolbar widget. I'd share my code if you want. ----- Brad Selfridge -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Spec-InputWidget-question-tp4914439p4914673.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Sept. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Territorial

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Hi, On 07/09/16 14:37, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > ps: and please forgive Stef for being harsh on thisâ¦ the Spec affaire was painful for us, we do not like to put lawyers and that kind of thing in playâ¦ Fortunately there is people in community, like you, that do care about Pharo, is busy and stressed, but don't use this as a eternal excuse to go after every person that doesn't share his views or know "the history". Diversity is healthy in a community. Thanks for being here. Cheers, Offray

Sept. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Territorial

by Dimitris Chloupis

Personally I dont mind you being rude to me, I am a lawyer , by profession I am thick skinned. Busy ? being there done that. And we all snap from time to time and I agree doing is usually more than important that talking , but , there is always a BUT. In any case I dont want to drag the issue its just I care for Pharo maybe not much as you do since I have not invested as much as you have but I do think talking is also important it helps people get more confident in being part of a community , this in term can lead to motivation to being active contributors. When I joined Pharo community I got a lot of encouragement from people here for my efforts , it may be talk, but emotionally is very important to know that people appreciate your work and respect you as a person. A small advise from a person that happens to see what having too many responsibilities can do to a person, take care yourself because the effects of overworking are not immediate , it will get much worse down the road unless you make yourself a priority. On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:46 PM stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > About my tone may I ask a question? Yes sometimes I feel irritated. I'm > human and I feel irritated. > > May be you know the trick that some smart manager use to control the > length of meetings... > > I experienced in our team in the past meetings with 18 people and one guy > was always talking a lot more than others. And I was always asking myself: > does it have conscience that each minute he is taking is in fact 18 min > because we could all spend 1 min doing something else. > > After that I heard about team that have strange clock where the clock is > multiplying by the amount of participants. > > So when I participate to meetings I always think about what is the value > that I bring to other time. > > Now we are all busy, you see some people in our team and outside told me > that they do not have the time to follow Pharo mailing-lists because there > are too many emails. And we all lose because the insights of such people > could be really great. > > So some alternatives: > > - do not care do not read the pharo mailing-list, I would not feel > happy with such solution. > > - be forced to react when something wrong is said because this is > important for everybody. And yes sometimes I'm irritated because I feel > forced to say something.I have the impression that not saying anything is a > kind of luxury that I do not have. > > - have a closed contributors only mailing-list (not good does not feel > nice). > > > This license point is key and this is why I reacted. And I reacted that > way because I CARE about our system and I CARE about our communitee. > > Out there, there is Java, Lua, Python, Ruby, Swift, Objective-C and many > more. So we should pay attention to our ecosystem and the license > > is an integral part of it. > > So sorry to be rude but I'm ***REALLY*** busy. Much more than you can > imagine. Even more. And I feel responsible. > > > Stef > > > > Le 7/9/16 Ã 14:40, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : > > Ironically enough "this is our way , take it or leave it" would not work > for Pharo because its smalltalk and basically smalltalk by architecture > allow you to deeply modify the system from the get go. > > This make Pharo technically impossible to control from a dictator and > committee point of view like lets say Python or Linux. CPython is a single > implementation , but with pharo every pharo app is essentially a new pharo > implementation. The moment you modify or extend the pharo image you make a > new pharo implementation. > > I don't like the tone Stef is expressing , he is quite rude and definitely > does not represent the tone of the community which far more open to > dialogue but he is correct , GPL would never have worked for Pharo. > Actually I dont think I have seen a language that is fairly popular under a > GPL license. > > There is of course software under GPL which is sucessful commercially, > Blender is an example, but GPL does not cover 3d assets, music and sound. > In that case you use another kind of license like creative commons or > heavily modify GPL to extend beyond code. So it was definitely not GPL that > made Blender popular, actually it caused a problem with game developers > because games using the BGE (Blender Game Engine) were at first considered > data because the code was packaged inside the blend file which had a binary > format so that meant it was not covered by GPL because it considered the > whole game code just data (there is a separate executable for loading the > game code) but then Blender decided to change this also to GPL with > extending its license and that pretty much killed commercial games made > with Blender. > > So technically you could get away with GPLing Pharo because you could > argue that Pharo image is merely data that the VM loads and not real source > code, which is kinda correct but it would be messy and the legal > interpretation very confusing and uncertain ( leaves a lot of room for > legal interpretation ) . As a company you cannot risk this , especially > while you expect to make big profit. > > As stef said GPL is like a virus, it spread anywhere it touches. Even if > all you do is add a tiny bit of GPL code inside the Pharo image would turn > the entire Pharo implementation including the VM into GPL and because Pharo > tries to approach as many companies as possible as most other languages do > , because money helps improve the popularity and the quality of the code, > MIT is definitely the way to do. > > So its more a "have to" than a "must to". > > Also double license or not its kinda pointless, the moment something > becomes MIT you can be rest assured that people will pick MIT over GPL. > This because you can turn MIT to GPL but you cannot turn GPL to MIT. So > even if you want your project GPLed , MIT is still more than enough and of > course most people will pick MIT for commercial apps so they don't need to > open source their code. > > So no, it does not matter that Spec is double licensed , or if it is legal > that is double licensed , since its active implementation is MIT this all > you need to know. > > So for Pharo and pretty much almost all other programming languages out > there who aspire to be used by as many people as possible and play an > active role in the software market MIT like license is a mandatory choice. > The irony of people not wanting to open source their code but wanting to > use open source code. Its this type of thinking that justifies the > existence of GPL. > > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 2:59 PM Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas < > offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> >> On 07/09/16 13:39, stepharo wrote: >> > >> >> We should not have "The Pharo Way" (TM) or "No way!"... suddenly >> >> Markus talk about feedback loops comes to mind, particularly the >> >> slide on page 53, regarding "An open source smalltalk ignoring all >> >> community contributions"[2]. This is far for being the case in this >> >> community and we can keep that scenario at safe distance, if we show >> >> options. So, dual license is an option, git is an option, markdown is >> >> an option. Pharo as a place with options is one where Pharo can >> >> fulfill its vision for more people. Let's make these options visible >> >> and figure out the way the work better for a wider community. >> > It is amazing how you like talking. >> > >> >> Yes. I like. Is the way to know unwritten history. Not all the people in >> the community know the details as you do, so talking is the way of going >> out of misconceptions, like mine about dual license or state positions, >> like why I don't use Pillar. The "it has been discussed, this is our >> way, take or leave it" doesn't help in understanding way. So yes, I'm >> all about encouraging dialog/talk if it helps to understand. >> >> Bye, >> >> Offray >> >> >

Sept. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Territorial

by phil＠highoctane.be

Yes, MIT is a key reason Pharo makes sense to use for me. I can embed it in what I want, no issues. Phil On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 7:45 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > About my tone may I ask a question? Yes sometimes I feel irritated. I'm > human and I feel irritated. > > May be you know the trick that some smart manager use to control the > length of meetings... > > I experienced in our team in the past meetings with 18 people and one guy > was always talking a lot more than others. And I was always asking myself: > does it have conscience that each minute he is taking is in fact 18 min > because we could all spend 1 min doing something else. > > After that I heard about team that have strange clock where the clock is > multiplying by the amount of participants. > > So when I participate to meetings I always think about what is the value > that I bring to other time. > > Now we are all busy, you see some people in our team and outside told me > that they do not have the time to follow Pharo mailing-lists because there > are too many emails. And we all lose because the insights of such people > could be really great. > > So some alternatives: > > - do not care do not read the pharo mailing-list, I would not feel > happy with such solution. > > - be forced to react when something wrong is said because this is > important for everybody. And yes sometimes I'm irritated because I feel > forced to say something.I have the impression that not saying anything is a > kind of luxury that I do not have. > > - have a closed contributors only mailing-list (not good does not feel > nice). > > > This license point is key and this is why I reacted. And I reacted that > way because I CARE about our system and I CARE about our communitee. > > Out there, there is Java, Lua, Python, Ruby, Swift, Objective-C and many > more. So we should pay attention to our ecosystem and the license > > is an integral part of it. > > So sorry to be rude but I'm ***REALLY*** busy. Much more than you can > imagine. Even more. And I feel responsible. > > > Stef > > > > Le 7/9/16 Ã 14:40, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : > > Ironically enough "this is our way , take it or leave it" would not work > for Pharo because its smalltalk and basically smalltalk by architecture > allow you to deeply modify the system from the get go. > > This make Pharo technically impossible to control from a dictator and > committee point of view like lets say Python or Linux. CPython is a single > implementation , but with pharo every pharo app is essentially a new pharo > implementation. The moment you modify or extend the pharo image you make a > new pharo implementation. > > I don't like the tone Stef is expressing , he is quite rude and definitely > does not represent the tone of the community which far more open to > dialogue but he is correct , GPL would never have worked for Pharo. > Actually I dont think I have seen a language that is fairly popular under a > GPL license. > > There is of course software under GPL which is sucessful commercially, > Blender is an example, but GPL does not cover 3d assets, music and sound. > In that case you use another kind of license like creative commons or > heavily modify GPL to extend beyond code. So it was definitely not GPL that > made Blender popular, actually it caused a problem with game developers > because games using the BGE (Blender Game Engine) were at first considered > data because the code was packaged inside the blend file which had a binary > format so that meant it was not covered by GPL because it considered the > whole game code just data (there is a separate executable for loading the > game code) but then Blender decided to change this also to GPL with > extending its license and that pretty much killed commercial games made > with Blender. > > So technically you could get away with GPLing Pharo because you could > argue that Pharo image is merely data that the VM loads and not real source > code, which is kinda correct but it would be messy and the legal > interpretation very confusing and uncertain ( leaves a lot of room for > legal interpretation ) . As a company you cannot risk this , especially > while you expect to make big profit. > > As stef said GPL is like a virus, it spread anywhere it touches. Even if > all you do is add a tiny bit of GPL code inside the Pharo image would turn > the entire Pharo implementation including the VM into GPL and because Pharo > tries to approach as many companies as possible as most other languages do > , because money helps improve the popularity and the quality of the code, > MIT is definitely the way to do. > > So its more a "have to" than a "must to". > > Also double license or not its kinda pointless, the moment something > becomes MIT you can be rest assured that people will pick MIT over GPL. > This because you can turn MIT to GPL but you cannot turn GPL to MIT. So > even if you want your project GPLed , MIT is still more than enough and of > course most people will pick MIT for commercial apps so they don't need to > open source their code. > > So no, it does not matter that Spec is double licensed , or if it is legal > that is double licensed , since its active implementation is MIT this all > you need to know. > > So for Pharo and pretty much almost all other programming languages out > there who aspire to be used by as many people as possible and play an > active role in the software market MIT like license is a mandatory choice. > The irony of people not wanting to open source their code but wanting to > use open source code. Its this type of thinking that justifies the > existence of GPL. > > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 2:59 PM Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas < > offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> >> On 07/09/16 13:39, stepharo wrote: >> > >> >> We should not have "The Pharo Way" (TM) or "No way!"... suddenly >> >> Markus talk about feedback loops comes to mind, particularly the >> >> slide on page 53, regarding "An open source smalltalk ignoring all >> >> community contributions"[2]. This is far for being the case in this >> >> community and we can keep that scenario at safe distance, if we show >> >> options. So, dual license is an option, git is an option, markdown is >> >> an option. Pharo as a place with options is one where Pharo can >> >> fulfill its vision for more people. Let's make these options visible >> >> and figure out the way the work better for a wider community. >> > It is amazing how you like talking. >> > >> >> Yes. I like. Is the way to know unwritten history. Not all the people in >> the community know the details as you do, so talking is the way of going >> out of misconceptions, like mine about dual license or state positions, >> like why I don't use Pillar. The "it has been discussed, this is our >> way, take or leave it" doesn't help in understanding way. So yes, I'm >> all about encouraging dialog/talk if it helps to understand. >> >> Bye, >> >> Offray >> >> >

Sept. 7, 2016