- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] UFFI and ObjC

by Esteban Lorenzano

you do not need UFFI for that, you already have the Alien-MacOS* packages (not loaded by default, but you can find it at www.squeaksource.com/Alien <http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien>, I need to prepare a configuration and add a catalog entry for it). then you can do nice things like this: :) > On 26 Oct 2016, at 05:03, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Is there any information how to use UFI for calling dynamically shared ObjC libraries ?

Oct. 26, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] AST-Core-Parser readFrom: question

by Nicolai Hess

2016-10-25 21:16 GMT+02:00 Brad Selfridge <bsselfridge(a)gmail.com>: > Is it safe to use the AST-Core-Parser class extension "readFrom:" in a > business application? > Maybe no. It is bound to smalltalk syntax and the allowed number literals. For example, a '+' sign in a float exponents has some suprising behavior Number readFrom:'3e4' "-> 30000" Number readFrom:'3e+4' "->3" > > > > ----- > Brad Selfridge > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/AST- > Core-Parser-readFrom-question-tp4920128.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Oct. 26, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Second Pharo Techtalk has been uploaded

by Esteban Lorenzano

thanks Dimitris for this, is very important :) > On 25 Oct 2016, at 20:42, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Second Pharo Techtalk audio recording has been uploaded, more info here > > http://www.kilon-alios.com/subpages/blog/blogposts/20161025-Techtalk-post.h… <http://www.kilon-alios.com/subpages/blog/blogposts/20161025-Techtalk-post.h…> >

Oct. 26, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial

by Dimitris Chloupis

Ruby On Rails was started by one developer , so no it's not users that bring contributors it's contributors that bring users. Smalltalk started by a small team. Almost all programming languages started with no users and mostly a sole developer. This is because a user will not use software that is not even alpha, on the other hand a contributor will be a user and a contributor regardless of the state of software provided he has the desire to do so. Spreading the word and helping people understand Pharo no longer makes you a user, it promotes you to contributor Same applies to Richard ;) On Wed, 26 Oct 2016 at 03:19, Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Yes it is an amazing thing what you all do, I admire that. But isn't > contributors previous users? > > What I like about the Richard intent, from what I understand, is to make > Smalltalk, and Pharo, more visible, more used, and that is the only way I > know to bring more contributors. From what I know, Ruby got a lot of more > contributors after Rails, which brought a lot of users to the platform. > > I really would like to contribute some day, in the mean time I will try to > support initiatives like the one proposed by Richard, and spread the word > as much as I can. > > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Do you know how many unique views had PBE last 5 months ? 1000 > Do you know how many contributions PBE had last 5 months ? Zero. Not 100 . > Not even 10. Not even 1... zero > > PBE would be still in Pharo version 1.4 if it was not for me , Stef and > Damien. > > This is not a Pharo problem, all open source software has the same issue. > > We need more people helping, I ported the first 1/3rd of the book from 1.4 > to Pharo 4 just by myself and the other two joined after I was burned out > from the pain. I was disgusted working on PBE . I literally hated Pharo. > Fortunately nothing that a bit of a small break could not fix. > > I was and still I am the most loud critic about the state of > documentation. In the end however what makes open source projects exist is > not users. Users are insignificant. Sorry to say that but is true. It's > contributors that are the life of the project. > > People like Stef made Pharo and even Squeak possible. People like Stef > keep Smalltalk alive. Personally I don't give a damn what users want , I > rather attract only contributors and zero just users. That's enough to keep > Pharo evolving for centuries. > > Stef says that "Pharo is yours" , apparently this easier said than done. I > respect your opinion, I agree with your opinion because I said what you say > years ago. In the end however if you and other users are not willing to > help we will remain at zero commits at least as far as PBE is concerned . > > It's pretty much the same for the other areas of Pharo. > On Wed, 26 Oct 2016 at 01:26, Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > *Dimitris:* > > I agree with much of what you said, but I think it is still possible to > make step 0 and follow the Pharo path with more easy. :) > > Also, > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample/lastSucces… > is nice too, I didn't know of it. It is the new version of PBE ongoing? I > am going to take a look at it. > > Ben: > > Thanks for the links, two of them I didn't know of. I hadn't time to read > them yet, but I think what I am looking for is something like > https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/reddit-st-in-10-cool-pharo-classes-1b53… > > "The things we see as important might be a paradigm step too far for > newcomers." > > > I think the problem for Step 0 it is exactly that. I myself have already > tried to show the paradigm shift along with all that must be learn to use > Pharo, and it didn't went well. It is too much to tackle at once. There is > the language, the environment, the IDE, the paradigm shift, too much... > > Nicolai: > > The first example from the book provides the first experience you have on > Pharo, and it uses stuff that is not on the default image (it happened to > me a long time ago and with a friend more recently). It is frustrating and > leave the person trying to learn suspicious. I see that the current site > for the book has a link to the image that should be used while reading the > book, but it is not very visible and I think the book don't mention > it. From the Getting Started chapter I count five pages until some code is > executed (Time now). The problem here is that people usually don't > understand, yet, the power of the environment, and are eager to see code > and execute it, and they often get confused with so many different things > to learn even before the first "Hello World". I can say the first time I > got PBE I gave up because of this, and I only come back later because I > persist to learn Smalltalk, and I know some other people who tried to read > it too and give up for exactly the same reason. > > I found the book an excellent reference and source to solidify the > understanding of Pharo, but I don't like it as a tutorial. > > > *-------* > > Look at the Go language site: https://golang.org/, the first thing it > puts in your face is a way to execute code and a link to a Tour. I don't > even have to think much before I have executed the Hello World, my hand > just moved the mouse to the Run button, and even before I noticed I was > doing the tour. > > In my opinion, a good Step 0 would be something like Profstef ( > http://amber-lang.net/learn.html) as a Tour, going slowly through the > language aspects, messages types, comparing to other OO languages, showing > that operator are just messages, then that control flow statements are also > just messages, creating classes etc, always letting the user execute code > as she goes on. > > After that, the Tour could tell its user to continue it using the image > and showing the download link. When the user execute Pharo.exe and loads > the default image the first thing that appears is the Profstef asking if it > is the first time he is there and if he is continuing the tour from the web > (if it is someone used to Pharo, he just closes the windows and starts to > use his new fresh image). It could explains steadily the workspace, the > transcript, the nautilus and how to make a very simple web application with > tests. After that it could explain the image, that objects are stored > (serialized) into it and the image itself consists of the running program > while the Pharo.exe is the VM. In the end It could point to a tutorial like > https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/reddit-st-in-10-cool-pharo-classes-1b53…, > the PBE and to the many others resources available. > > The order of things could change and maybe I had missed something, but > that is what I can think now. Perhaps this approach is too slow, I don't > know, but the fast one isn't working for me :( It don't need to be a tour > also, but something in these lines, like the medium post above but with > more parts, each describing a little more of Pharo. The idea, in general, > is to easy the entrance barriers that Pharo has by it's quite different, > yet powerful, programming model and environment. When I talk to people I > know that have tried Pharo, that is the biggest problem. > > That is just my two cents. :) > > And thanks for all the new links :) > > Regards, > Vitor > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:05 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > > > Le 25/10/16 Ã 15:05, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : > > PBE is for Pharo version 5, I will give it another look to start porting > it to Pharo version 6. Will add a git tag and make release for 5. > > > Thanks. > Yes it would be an immense help. > > Stef > > > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:19 AM phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> > wrote: > > There was this book (and some others of the same ink) that was provided > with my first computer: > > > http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Getting… > <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Getting…> > > I actually had the french version. > http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Color%2… > <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Color%2…> > > This thing is still sitting near my desk today (I guess it keeps me > connected to my curious young self or something like that). > > I keep on thinking that it would be great to have a Pharo-based version of > it. > > And something like this one for bytecode sets... > > > http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/EDTA… > <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/EDTA…> > > Phil > > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Matteo via Pharo-users < > pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Matteo <matteob8(a)yahoo.it> > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > > Cc: > Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 07:08:21 +0200 > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial > +1 for PBE > It has been my first smalltalk/Pharo tutorial. > I'm still using it, as a quick reference. > > On October 25, 2016 6:25:08 AM GMT+02:00, monty <monty2(a)programmer.net> > wrote: > > +1 for PBE. > > > > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 at 1:56 AM > From: "Nicolai Hess" <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> > To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial > > Am 23.10.2016 3:16 nachm. schrieb "Vitor Medina Cruz" <vitormcruz@gmail.com[mailto:vitormcruz@gmail.com]>: > > > I think the MOOC is too much for a tutorial. What I miss today is a good written (no videos! Please!) tutorial that teaches just a little of the language and give a few guidelines on how to do simple stuff with the environment, such as a "Hello World!", creating a class, tests and run stuff. > > I thought "pharo by example" provides exactly that. > What is missing here, from your perspective? > I learned a lot from it and it helped me to get started to learn smalltalk, not only the syntax, but also, doing something the smalltalk way. > > > On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 12:15 PM, horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com[mailto:horrido.hobbies@gmail.com]> wrote: > > > Excellent suggestion! I shall look into it. Thanks. > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Ultimate-Smalltalk-Tutorial-tp4918859p4918930.htm… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > > > >

Oct. 26, 2016

UFFI and ObjC

by Dimitris Chloupis

Is there any information how to use UFI for calling dynamically shared ObjC libraries ?

Oct. 26, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial

by Vitor Medina Cruz

Yes it is an amazing thing what you all do, I admire that. But isn't contributors previous users? What I like about the Richard intent, from what I understand, is to make Smalltalk, and Pharo, more visible, more used, and that is the only way I know to bring more contributors. From what I know, Ruby got a lot of more contributors after Rails, which brought a lot of users to the platform. I really would like to contribute some day, in the mean time I will try to support initiatives like the one proposed by Richard, and spread the word as much as I can. On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Do you know how many unique views had PBE last 5 months ? 1000 > Do you know how many contributions PBE had last 5 months ? Zero. Not 100 . > Not even 10. Not even 1... zero > > PBE would be still in Pharo version 1.4 if it was not for me , Stef and > Damien. > > This is not a Pharo problem, all open source software has the same issue. > > We need more people helping, I ported the first 1/3rd of the book from 1.4 > to Pharo 4 just by myself and the other two joined after I was burned out > from the pain. I was disgusted working on PBE . I literally hated Pharo. > Fortunately nothing that a bit of a small break could not fix. > > I was and still I am the most loud critic about the state of > documentation. In the end however what makes open source projects exist is > not users. Users are insignificant. Sorry to say that but is true. It's > contributors that are the life of the project. > > People like Stef made Pharo and even Squeak possible. People like Stef > keep Smalltalk alive. Personally I don't give a damn what users want , I > rather attract only contributors and zero just users. That's enough to keep > Pharo evolving for centuries. > > Stef says that "Pharo is yours" , apparently this easier said than done. I > respect your opinion, I agree with your opinion because I said what you say > years ago. In the end however if you and other users are not willing to > help we will remain at zero commits at least as far as PBE is concerned . > > It's pretty much the same for the other areas of Pharo. > On Wed, 26 Oct 2016 at 01:26, Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> *Dimitris:* >> >> I agree with much of what you said, but I think it is still possible to >> make step 0 and follow the Pharo path with more easy. :) >> >> Also, https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample/ >> lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/book-result/PharoTour/PharoTour.html is >> nice too, I didn't know of it. It is the new version of PBE ongoing? I am >> going to take a look at it. >> >> Ben: >> >> Thanks for the links, two of them I didn't know of. I hadn't time to read >> them yet, but I think what I am looking for is something like >> https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/reddit-st-in-10-cool-pharo-classes- >> 1b5327ca0740 >> >> "The things we see as important might be a paradigm step too far for >> newcomers." >> >> >> I think the problem for Step 0 it is exactly that. I myself have already >> tried to show the paradigm shift along with all that must be learn to use >> Pharo, and it didn't went well. It is too much to tackle at once. There is >> the language, the environment, the IDE, the paradigm shift, too much... >> >> Nicolai: >> >> The first example from the book provides the first experience you have on >> Pharo, and it uses stuff that is not on the default image (it happened to >> me a long time ago and with a friend more recently). It is frustrating and >> leave the person trying to learn suspicious. I see that the current site >> for the book has a link to the image that should be used while reading the >> book, but it is not very visible and I think the book don't mention >> it. From the Getting Started chapter I count five pages until some code is >> executed (Time now). The problem here is that people usually don't >> understand, yet, the power of the environment, and are eager to see code >> and execute it, and they often get confused with so many different things >> to learn even before the first "Hello World". I can say the first time I >> got PBE I gave up because of this, and I only come back later because I >> persist to learn Smalltalk, and I know some other people who tried to read >> it too and give up for exactly the same reason. >> >> I found the book an excellent reference and source to solidify the >> understanding of Pharo, but I don't like it as a tutorial. >> >> >> *-------* >> >> Look at the Go language site: https://golang.org/, the first thing it >> puts in your face is a way to execute code and a link to a Tour. I don't >> even have to think much before I have executed the Hello World, my hand >> just moved the mouse to the Run button, and even before I noticed I was >> doing the tour. >> >> In my opinion, a good Step 0 would be something like Profstef ( >> http://amber-lang.net/learn.html) as a Tour, going slowly through the >> language aspects, messages types, comparing to other OO languages, showing >> that operator are just messages, then that control flow statements are also >> just messages, creating classes etc, always letting the user execute code >> as she goes on. >> >> After that, the Tour could tell its user to continue it using the image >> and showing the download link. When the user execute Pharo.exe and loads >> the default image the first thing that appears is the Profstef asking if it >> is the first time he is there and if he is continuing the tour from the web >> (if it is someone used to Pharo, he just closes the windows and starts to >> use his new fresh image). It could explains steadily the workspace, the >> transcript, the nautilus and how to make a very simple web application with >> tests. After that it could explain the image, that objects are stored >> (serialized) into it and the image itself consists of the running program >> while the Pharo.exe is the VM. In the end It could point to a tutorial like >> https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/reddit-st-in-10-cool-pharo-classes- >> 1b5327ca0740, the PBE and to the many others resources available. >> >> The order of things could change and maybe I had missed something, but >> that is what I can think now. Perhaps this approach is too slow, I don't >> know, but the fast one isn't working for me :( It don't need to be a tour >> also, but something in these lines, like the medium post above but with >> more parts, each describing a little more of Pharo. The idea, in general, >> is to easy the entrance barriers that Pharo has by it's quite different, >> yet powerful, programming model and environment. When I talk to people I >> know that have tried Pharo, that is the biggest problem. >> >> That is just my two cents. :) >> >> And thanks for all the new links :) >> >> Regards, >> Vitor >> >> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:05 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >> >> >> Le 25/10/16 Ã 15:05, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : >> >> PBE is for Pharo version 5, I will give it another look to start porting >> it to Pharo version 6. Will add a git tag and make release for 5. >> >> >> Thanks. >> Yes it would be an immense help. >> >> Stef >> >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:19 AM phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> >> wrote: >> >> There was this book (and some others of the same ink) that was provided >> with my first computer: >> >> http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/ >> Getting%20Started%20With%20Extended%20Color%20Basic%20(Tandy).pdf >> <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Getting…> >> >> I actually had the french version. http://www. >> colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/ >> Color%20Computer%203%20Exended%20Basic%20(Tandy)%20(French).pdf >> <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Color%2…> >> >> This thing is still sitting near my desk today (I guess it keeps me >> connected to my curious young self or something like that). >> >> I keep on thinking that it would be great to have a Pharo-based version >> of it. >> >> And something like this one for bytecode sets... >> >> http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/ >> EDTASM+%20With%20ZBUG%20(Tandy).pdf >> <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/EDTA…> >> >> Phil >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Matteo via Pharo-users < >> pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Matteo <matteob8(a)yahoo.it> >> To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> >> Cc: >> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 07:08:21 +0200 >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial >> +1 for PBE >> It has been my first smalltalk/Pharo tutorial. >> I'm still using it, as a quick reference. >> >> On October 25, 2016 6:25:08 AM GMT+02:00, monty <monty2(a)programmer.net> >> wrote: >> >> +1 for PBE. >> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 at 1:56 AM >> From: "Nicolai Hess" <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> >> To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial >> >> Am 23.10.2016 3:16 nachm. schrieb "Vitor Medina Cruz" <vitormcruz@gmail.com[mailto:vitormcruz@gmail.com]>: >> >> >> I think the MOOC is too much for a tutorial. What I miss today is a good written (no videos! Please!) tutorial that teaches just a little of the language and give a few guidelines on how to do simple stuff with the environment, such as a "Hello World!", creating a class, tests and run stuff. >> >> I thought "pharo by example" provides exactly that. >> What is missing here, from your perspective? >> I learned a lot from it and it helped me to get started to learn smalltalk, not only the syntax, but also, doing something the smalltalk way. >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 12:15 PM, horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com[mailto:horrido.hobbies@gmail.com]> wrote: >> >> >> Excellent suggestion! I shall look into it. Thanks. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Ultimate-Smalltalk-Tutorial-tp4918859p4918930.htm… >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >> >> >> >>

Oct. 26, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] New Pharo blog - "Pharo Trek"

by Dimitris Chloupis

You want me to use it or help you out ? I could give you the bootstrap templates. With mustache you can make amazing websites. Personally I am happy with Octopus, everything looks fine, I am already using Pillar efficiently. What I could improve is the automatic generation of blog posts. Time wise however I seriously need to go back to Unreal and figure out how to make my shared memory bridge with Pharo work. I am done with this and happy with the result. I did not use ecstatic because of lack of documentation. I was not also convinced that would make my life easier. I live the name though :) On Wed, 26 Oct 2016 at 00:45, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > dimitris > > may be you should have a look at ecstatic. > > We should migrate it to the latest version of Pillar but our ideas was to > use pillar to produce static web site. > > http://guillep.github.io/ecstatic/ > > The web site of guille is produced with ecstatic > https://guillep.github.io/research.html If you could give a try and give > feedback it would be nice. I'm building new components to get publication > lists integrated into it. > > Stef > > Le 25/10/16 Ã 20:47, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : > > Thanks Offray > > My "backend" is Octopus and Pillar so 100% Pharo :) But I do edit the > final Html, mainly fine tuning. Pillar and Octopus deal with the long text > and generate the appropriate HTML. > The blog and website are static because they are hosted by Gitlab and only > static website generators are allowed, not that I need something more I am > very happy with the simplicity of it. > The templates I use are bootsrap from getboostrap website. > > I will keep improving them, but for now I am very happy with the end result > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:30 PM Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas < > offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > > Seems nice. Which back end do you use for your website? > > Cheers, > > Offray > > > On 25/10/16 07:37, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > > So I decided to take a stab at making my own blog for pharo and making > > my own website for my projects and my work , you can find my blog here > > > > http://www.kilon-alios.com/subpages/blog/index.html > > > > Does not have much content, but there is a blog post about my latest > > project Octopus . Hope you like it , stay tune for more :) > > > > > > > >

Oct. 26, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial

by Dimitris Chloupis

Do you know how many unique views had PBE last 5 months ? 1000 Do you know how many contributions PBE had last 5 months ? Zero. Not 100 . Not even 10. Not even 1... zero PBE would be still in Pharo version 1.4 if it was not for me , Stef and Damien. This is not a Pharo problem, all open source software has the same issue. We need more people helping, I ported the first 1/3rd of the book from 1.4 to Pharo 4 just by myself and the other two joined after I was burned out from the pain. I was disgusted working on PBE . I literally hated Pharo. Fortunately nothing that a bit of a small break could not fix. I was and still I am the most loud critic about the state of documentation. In the end however what makes open source projects exist is not users. Users are insignificant. Sorry to say that but is true. It's contributors that are the life of the project. People like Stef made Pharo and even Squeak possible. People like Stef keep Smalltalk alive. Personally I don't give a damn what users want , I rather attract only contributors and zero just users. That's enough to keep Pharo evolving for centuries. Stef says that "Pharo is yours" , apparently this easier said than done. I respect your opinion, I agree with your opinion because I said what you say years ago. In the end however if you and other users are not willing to help we will remain at zero commits at least as far as PBE is concerned . It's pretty much the same for the other areas of Pharo. On Wed, 26 Oct 2016 at 01:26, Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> wrote: > *Dimitris:* > > I agree with much of what you said, but I think it is still possible to > make step 0 and follow the Pharo path with more easy. :) > > Also, > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample/lastSucces… > is nice too, I didn't know of it. It is the new version of PBE ongoing? I > am going to take a look at it. > > Ben: > > Thanks for the links, two of them I didn't know of. I hadn't time to read > them yet, but I think what I am looking for is something like > https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/reddit-st-in-10-cool-pharo-classes-1b53… > > "The things we see as important might be a paradigm step too far for > newcomers." > > > I think the problem for Step 0 it is exactly that. I myself have already > tried to show the paradigm shift along with all that must be learn to use > Pharo, and it didn't went well. It is too much to tackle at once. There is > the language, the environment, the IDE, the paradigm shift, too much... > > Nicolai: > > The first example from the book provides the first experience you have on > Pharo, and it uses stuff that is not on the default image (it happened to > me a long time ago and with a friend more recently). It is frustrating and > leave the person trying to learn suspicious. I see that the current site > for the book has a link to the image that should be used while reading the > book, but it is not very visible and I think the book don't mention > it. From the Getting Started chapter I count five pages until some code is > executed (Time now). The problem here is that people usually don't > understand, yet, the power of the environment, and are eager to see code > and execute it, and they often get confused with so many different things > to learn even before the first "Hello World". I can say the first time I > got PBE I gave up because of this, and I only come back later because I > persist to learn Smalltalk, and I know some other people who tried to read > it too and give up for exactly the same reason. > > I found the book an excellent reference and source to solidify the > understanding of Pharo, but I don't like it as a tutorial. > > > *-------* > > Look at the Go language site: https://golang.org/, the first thing it > puts in your face is a way to execute code and a link to a Tour. I don't > even have to think much before I have executed the Hello World, my hand > just moved the mouse to the Run button, and even before I noticed I was > doing the tour. > > In my opinion, a good Step 0 would be something like Profstef ( > http://amber-lang.net/learn.html) as a Tour, going slowly through the > language aspects, messages types, comparing to other OO languages, showing > that operator are just messages, then that control flow statements are also > just messages, creating classes etc, always letting the user execute code > as she goes on. > > After that, the Tour could tell its user to continue it using the image > and showing the download link. When the user execute Pharo.exe and loads > the default image the first thing that appears is the Profstef asking if it > is the first time he is there and if he is continuing the tour from the web > (if it is someone used to Pharo, he just closes the windows and starts to > use his new fresh image). It could explains steadily the workspace, the > transcript, the nautilus and how to make a very simple web application with > tests. After that it could explain the image, that objects are stored > (serialized) into it and the image itself consists of the running program > while the Pharo.exe is the VM. In the end It could point to a tutorial like > https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/reddit-st-in-10-cool-pharo-classes-1b53…, > the PBE and to the many others resources available. > > The order of things could change and maybe I had missed something, but > that is what I can think now. Perhaps this approach is too slow, I don't > know, but the fast one isn't working for me :( It don't need to be a tour > also, but something in these lines, like the medium post above but with > more parts, each describing a little more of Pharo. The idea, in general, > is to easy the entrance barriers that Pharo has by it's quite different, > yet powerful, programming model and environment. When I talk to people I > know that have tried Pharo, that is the biggest problem. > > That is just my two cents. :) > > And thanks for all the new links :) > > Regards, > Vitor > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:05 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > > > Le 25/10/16 Ã 15:05, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : > > PBE is for Pharo version 5, I will give it another look to start porting > it to Pharo version 6. Will add a git tag and make release for 5. > > > Thanks. > Yes it would be an immense help. > > Stef > > > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:19 AM phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> > wrote: > > There was this book (and some others of the same ink) that was provided > with my first computer: > > > http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Getting… > <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Getting…> > > I actually had the french version. > http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Color%2… > <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Color%2…> > > This thing is still sitting near my desk today (I guess it keeps me > connected to my curious young self or something like that). > > I keep on thinking that it would be great to have a Pharo-based version of > it. > > And something like this one for bytecode sets... > > > http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/EDTA… > <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/EDTA…> > > Phil > > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Matteo via Pharo-users < > pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Matteo <matteob8(a)yahoo.it> > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > > Cc: > Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 07:08:21 +0200 > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial > +1 for PBE > It has been my first smalltalk/Pharo tutorial. > I'm still using it, as a quick reference. > > On October 25, 2016 6:25:08 AM GMT+02:00, monty <monty2(a)programmer.net> > wrote: > > +1 for PBE. > > > > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 at 1:56 AM > From: "Nicolai Hess" <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> > To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial > > Am 23.10.2016 3:16 nachm. schrieb "Vitor Medina Cruz" <vitormcruz@gmail.com[mailto:vitormcruz@gmail.com]>: > > > I think the MOOC is too much for a tutorial. What I miss today is a good written (no videos! Please!) tutorial that teaches just a little of the language and give a few guidelines on how to do simple stuff with the environment, such as a "Hello World!", creating a class, tests and run stuff. > > I thought "pharo by example" provides exactly that. > What is missing here, from your perspective? > I learned a lot from it and it helped me to get started to learn smalltalk, not only the syntax, but also, doing something the smalltalk way. > > > On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 12:15 PM, horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com[mailto:horrido.hobbies@gmail.com]> wrote: > > > Excellent suggestion! I shall look into it. Thanks. > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Ultimate-Smalltalk-Tutorial-tp4918859p4918930.htm… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > > >

Oct. 26, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial

by Vitor Medina Cruz

*Dimitris:* I agree with much of what you said, but I think it is still possible to make step 0 and follow the Pharo path with more easy. :) Also, https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample/lastSucces… is nice too, I didn't know of it. It is the new version of PBE ongoing? I am going to take a look at it. Ben: Thanks for the links, two of them I didn't know of. I hadn't time to read them yet, but I think what I am looking for is something like https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/reddit-st-in-10-coo l-pharo-classes-1b5327ca0740 "The things we see as important might be a paradigm step too far for > newcomers." I think the problem for Step 0 it is exactly that. I myself have already tried to show the paradigm shift along with all that must be learn to use Pharo, and it didn't went well. It is too much to tackle at once. There is the language, the environment, the IDE, the paradigm shift, too much... Nicolai: The first example from the book provides the first experience you have on Pharo, and it uses stuff that is not on the default image (it happened to me a long time ago and with a friend more recently). It is frustrating and leave the person trying to learn suspicious. I see that the current site for the book has a link to the image that should be used while reading the book, but it is not very visible and I think the book don't mention it. From the Getting Started chapter I count five pages until some code is executed (Time now). The problem here is that people usually don't understand, yet, the power of the environment, and are eager to see code and execute it, and they often get confused with so many different things to learn even before the first "Hello World". I can say the first time I got PBE I gave up because of this, and I only come back later because I persist to learn Smalltalk, and I know some other people who tried to read it too and give up for exactly the same reason. I found the book an excellent reference and source to solidify the understanding of Pharo, but I don't like it as a tutorial. *-------* Look at the Go language site: https://golang.org/, the first thing it puts in your face is a way to execute code and a link to a Tour. I don't even have to think much before I have executed the Hello World, my hand just moved the mouse to the Run button, and even before I noticed I was doing the tour. In my opinion, a good Step 0 would be something like Profstef ( http://amber-lang.net/learn.html) as a Tour, going slowly through the language aspects, messages types, comparing to other OO languages, showing that operator are just messages, then that control flow statements are also just messages, creating classes etc, always letting the user execute code as she goes on. After that, the Tour could tell its user to continue it using the image and showing the download link. When the user execute Pharo.exe and loads the default image the first thing that appears is the Profstef asking if it is the first time he is there and if he is continuing the tour from the web (if it is someone used to Pharo, he just closes the windows and starts to use his new fresh image). It could explains steadily the workspace, the transcript, the nautilus and how to make a very simple web application with tests. After that it could explain the image, that objects are stored (serialized) into it and the image itself consists of the running program while the Pharo.exe is the VM. In the end It could point to a tutorial like https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/reddit-st-in-10-coo l-pharo-classes-1b5327ca0740, the PBE and to the many others resources available. The order of things could change and maybe I had missed something, but that is what I can think now. Perhaps this approach is too slow, I don't know, but the fast one isn't working for me :( It don't need to be a tour also, but something in these lines, like the medium post above but with more parts, each describing a little more of Pharo. The idea, in general, is to easy the entrance barriers that Pharo has by it's quite different, yet powerful, programming model and environment. When I talk to people I know that have tried Pharo, that is the biggest problem. That is just my two cents. :) And thanks for all the new links :) Regards, Vitor On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:05 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > > Le 25/10/16 Ã 15:05, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : > > PBE is for Pharo version 5, I will give it another look to start porting > it to Pharo version 6. Will add a git tag and make release for 5. > > > Thanks. > Yes it would be an immense help. > > Stef > > > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:19 AM phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> > wrote: > >> There was this book (and some others of the same ink) that was provided >> with my first computer: >> >> http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/ >> Getting%20Started%20With%20Extended%20Color%20Basic%20(Tandy).pdf >> <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Getting…> >> >> I actually had the french version. http://www. >> colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/ >> Color%20Computer%203%20Exended%20Basic%20(Tandy)%20(French).pdf >> <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Color%2…> >> >> This thing is still sitting near my desk today (I guess it keeps me >> connected to my curious young self or something like that). >> >> I keep on thinking that it would be great to have a Pharo-based version >> of it. >> >> And something like this one for bytecode sets... >> >> http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/ >> EDTASM+%20With%20ZBUG%20(Tandy).pdf >> <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/EDTA…> >> >> Phil >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Matteo via Pharo-users < >> pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Matteo <matteob8(a)yahoo.it> >> To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> >> Cc: >> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 07:08:21 +0200 >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial >> +1 for PBE >> It has been my first smalltalk/Pharo tutorial. >> I'm still using it, as a quick reference. >> >> On October 25, 2016 6:25:08 AM GMT+02:00, monty <monty2(a)programmer.net> >> wrote: >> >> +1 for PBE. >> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 at 1:56 AM >> From: "Nicolai Hess" <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> >> To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial >> >> Am 23.10.2016 3:16 nachm. schrieb "Vitor Medina Cruz" <vitormcruz@gmail.com[mailto:vitormcruz@gmail.com]>: >> >> >> I think the MOOC is too much for a tutorial. What I miss today is a good written (no videos! Please!) tutorial that teaches just a little of the language and give a few guidelines on how to do simple stuff with the environment, such as a "Hello World!", creating a class, tests and run stuff. >> >> I thought "pharo by example" provides exactly that. >> What is missing here, from your perspective? >> I learned a lot from it and it helped me to get started to learn smalltalk, not only the syntax, but also, doing something the smalltalk way. >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 12:15 PM, horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com[mailto:horrido.hobbies@gmail.com]> wrote: >> >> >> Excellent suggestion! I shall look into it. Thanks. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Ultimate-Smalltalk-Tutorial-tp4918859p4918930.htm… >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >> >> >

Oct. 26, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial

by stepharo

Le 25/10/16 Ã 15:05, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : > PBE is for Pharo version 5, I will give it another look to start > porting it to Pharo version 6. Will add a git tag and make release for 5. Thanks. Yes it would be an immense help. Stef > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:19 AM phil(a)highoctane.be > <mailto:phil@highoctane.be> <phil(a)highoctane.be > <mailto:phil@highoctane.be>> wrote: > > There was this book (and some others of the same ink) that was > provided with my first computer: > > http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Getting… > <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Getting…> > > I actually had the french version. > http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Color%2… > <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Color%2…> > > This thing is still sitting near my desk today (I guess it keeps > me connected to my curious young self or something like that). > > I keep on thinking that it would be great to have a Pharo-based > version of it. > > And something like this one for bytecode sets... > > http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/EDTA… > <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/EDTA…> > > Phil > > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Matteo via Pharo-users > <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>> > wrote: > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Matteo <matteob8(a)yahoo.it <mailto:matteob8@yahoo.it>> > To: Any question about pharo is welcome > <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>> > > Cc: > Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 07:08:21 +0200 > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial > +1 for PBE > It has been my first smalltalk/Pharo tutorial. > I'm still using it, as a quick reference. > > On October 25, 2016 6:25:08 AM GMT+02:00, monty > <monty2(a)programmer.net <mailto:monty2@programmer.net>> wrote: > > +1 for PBE. > > > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 at 1:56 AM From: > "Nicolai Hess" <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com > <mailto:nicolaihess@gmail.com>> To: "Any question > about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>> Subject: Re: > [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial Am > 23.10.2016 3:16 nachm. schrieb "Vitor Medina Cruz" > <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com > <mailto:vitormcruz@gmail.com>[mailto:vitormcruz@gmail.com > <mailto:vitormcruz@gmail.com>]>: > > I think the MOOC is too much for a tutorial. What > I miss today is a good written (no videos! > Please!) tutorial that teaches just a little of > the language and give a few guidelines on how to > do simple stuff with the environment, such as a > "Hello World!", creating a class, tests and run > stuff. > > I thought "pharo by example" provides exactly that. > What is missing here, from your perspective? I learned > a lot from it and it helped me to get started to learn > smalltalk, not only the syntax, but also, doing > something the smalltalk way. > > On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 12:15 PM, horrido > <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com > <mailto:horrido.hobbies@gmail.com>[mailto:horrido.hobbies@gmail.com > <mailto:horrido.hobbies@gmail.com>]> wrote: > > Excellent suggestion! I shall look into it. > Thanks. -- View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/The-Ultimate-Smalltalk-Tutorial-tp4918859p4918930.htm… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing > list archive at Nabble.com <http://Nabble.com>. > > > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my > brevity. >

Oct. 26, 2016