- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] OSProcess missing from Pharo 6 image

by Dimitris Chloupis

Depends how many hours per week you spend and how deep you want to go in it. I spent around 3 hours per week , thats 150 hours per year , 750 in 5 years. For someone working 40 hours a week on pharo it would have taken him only 5 months to reach my level. Also in my case there were not that many libraries to help me out for the things I like to do , 3d graphics, custom GUIs and sound music. It was basically Morphic, Athens and Pharo Sound. Hence why I need to rely on external libraries. Web developing on the other hand would have required to learn Seaside and many other libraries that would have risen the learning curve quite substantially. On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 9:44 AM phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > This 5 years time span looks like accurate in what it takes to become > somewhat proficient with Pharo. > > I am curious to know how long one required to grok it. Because there is a > world between the "syntax on a postcard" narrative and the "dig in the > bowels of the beast" narrative. > > Anyone? > > Phil > > On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 11:07 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com > > wrote: > > If you talking about me, no it does not work like that. > > Complaining is easy indeed but what is easier for me is just using Python > libraries from Pharo , this way I don't wait for you to implements features > I need and you don't have to endure my complaining. Win - win situation. > > Soon I will also be able to use C++ libraries from Pharo and I will be > virtually unstoppable. From Pharo I will be able to use any programming > language , any library and any application. > > So no, I have no need to argue, I prefer implementing my own solutions. > > The days of being an inexperienced Pharo developer are long gone, sure I > am still no Pharo expert but I can easily overcome Pharo limitations. Took > me 5 years but better late than never . > > >

Oct. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] OSProcess missing from Pharo 6 image

by phil＠highoctane.be

This 5 years time span looks like accurate in what it takes to become somewhat proficient with Pharo. I am curious to know how long one required to grok it. Because there is a world between the "syntax on a postcard" narrative and the "dig in the bowels of the beast" narrative. Anyone? Phil On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 11:07 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > If you talking about me, no it does not work like that. > > Complaining is easy indeed but what is easier for me is just using Python > libraries from Pharo , this way I don't wait for you to implements features > I need and you don't have to endure my complaining. Win - win situation. > > Soon I will also be able to use C++ libraries from Pharo and I will be > virtually unstoppable. From Pharo I will be able to use any programming > language , any library and any application. > > So no, I have no need to argue, I prefer implementing my own solutions. > > The days of being an inexperienced Pharo developer are long gone, sure I > am still no Pharo expert but I can easily overcome Pharo limitations. Took > me 5 years but better late than never . >

Oct. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] OSProcess missing from Pharo 6 image

by Damien Pollet

On 28 October 2016 at 14:12, Guille Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: > What is wrong in executing a simple Metacello command to load it? What's wrong is, it's not convenient / easy / publicized enough. There isn't a nice user story about dependency management and package loading, even though technically everything is (nearly) there. That's why the bootstrap, cargo, etc are important.

Oct. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] OSProcess missing from Pharo 6 image

by Dimitris Chloupis

If you talking about me, no it does not work like that. Complaining is easy indeed but what is easier for me is just using Python libraries from Pharo , this way I don't wait for you to implements features I need and you don't have to endure my complaining. Win - win situation. Soon I will also be able to use C++ libraries from Pharo and I will be virtually unstoppable. From Pharo I will be able to use any programming language , any library and any application. So no, I have no need to argue, I prefer implementing my own solutions. The days of being an inexperienced Pharo developer are long gone, sure I am still no Pharo expert but I can easily overcome Pharo limitations. Took me 5 years but better late than never .

Oct. 28, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Writing files - Mac OS or Pharo change?

by Arturo Zambrano

Thanks Markus and Stef On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 5:49 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > > Le 28/10/16 Ã 10:33, Marcus Denker a Ã©crit : > > This seems this error: > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19227/Writing-a-File- > with-a-relative-path-to-the-working-directory-results-in- > FileException-cannot-open-file > > and this is caused by it, too. > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19064/Fuel-out-stack-not-working > > I wonder why we do not use FileSystem for all these file related > operations? > > > we should! > > > On 28 Oct 2016, at 04:34, Arturo Zambrano <arturo.zambrano(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi All, > I'm porting (no big changes) code from pharo 4 to pharo5. > > In (*) the resulting file handle is nil. Not sure why, may it be something > related to the recent Mac OS X upgrade to Sierra? > > > The same code was working with Pharo 4 on El Capitan. > The calling code is a Fuel serialization. > > > > > openForWrite: writeMode > "Open the file with the given name. If writeMode is true, allow writing, > otherwise open the file in read-only mode." > | fileHandle | > (*) fileHandle := self basicOpenForWrite: writeMode. > fileHandle ifNil: [ FileException signal: 'cannot open file: ', name ]. > ^ (BinaryFileStream handle: fileHandle file: self forWrite: writeMode) > register; > yourself > > any advice is welcome. > > arturo > > > >

Oct. 28, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec: Layout Problems

by Matteo

Hi Brad, a quick solution could be to group the first two columns in this way: WidgetBrad class>>defaultSpec ^ SpecLayout composed newRow: [ :r | r newColumn: [ :f | f newRow: [ :k | k newColumn: [ :c | c add: #tblTxt ]. k newColumn: [ :c | c add: #colImg ] ] ]. r newColumn: [ :c | c newRow: [ :row | row add: #editButton width: self toolbarHeight. row add: #deleteButton width: self toolbarHeight ] ] width: 60 ] height: self toolbarHeight yourself In general Spec seem to work by "offsets", even when we define the "width" of a column. In order to see how effectively Spec manages the offsets, of your widget, try this code: WidgetBrad defaultSpec asArray. it should return an array with the layout of the widget, and its subcomponents. Bye, Matteo On 26/10/16 23:06, Brad Selfridge wrote: > > > Just about the time I think I have Spec layouts figured out, I stump myself > all over again. > > I have a layout that I want to have two variable width columns and one fixed > width column. I have created three columns in a row. When I put a single > widget in each column, then the columns display as equal sizes and spread > equally across the row. However, when I set the third column to a fixed > width, then the first column takes up half of the width row and the other > two widgets share the other half of the row. I have tried several ways to > solve this to no avail. Here is my current layout. > > ^SpecLayout composed > newRow: [ :r | > r newColumn: [ :c | c add: #tblTxt ]. > r newColumn: [ :c | c add: #colTxt ]. > r newColumn: [ :c | > c newRow: [ :row | > row add: #editButton width: self toolbarHeight. > row add: #deleteButton width: self toolbarHeight ]] width: 60 > ] height: self toolbarHeight > yourself > > > What am I doing wrong. > > > > > > ----- > Brad Selfridge > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Spec-Layout-Problems-tp4920329.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Oct. 28, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] OSProcess missing from Pharo 6 image

by Norbert Hartl

+1 One step at a time. When we are close to this we can extensively argue what should be the distribution that ships. Complaining is always easy. If we make the image containing a lot of stuff and maintaining that will postpone releases it will be different complaints Norbert > Am 28.10.2016 um 18:11 schrieb stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > > This is also part of the vision document. Now first SubOSProcess should work on windows. > > Then Guillermo is RIGHT. > > We will continue to work on > > - creating a pharo minimal image > > - producing configurations > > - creating one image with default loaded configurations. > > You see the two objectives are not antagonists. > > Now you should all stop to think about Pharo a being one image. Pharo should be > > - a minimal core > > - a nicely tested distribution > > - potentially one validated configuration we all like. > > But it cannot be a monolithic system where people create dependency hell without even noticing it. > > Stef > > >> Le 28/10/16 Ã 15:29, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©crit : >> For what it is worth, I am with Dimitris on this: sub shell execution is so fundamental that it should be a standard part of the image. I always thought that that was the goal of the new OSSubProcess. >> >>> On 28 Oct 2016, at 15:25, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> For those not experienced with other language let me offer here an explanation why having something like OSProcess is vastly important. >>> >>> Coding even before the time of Smalltalk has been tied to the command line, even in this day all languages come with the ability of the command line to use them and them to use the command line. >>> >>> Since increasing the size of our community is paramount to the acceleration of the growth and evolution of pharo , it is also paramount to smooth out the learning curve of Smalltalk. In order to do that we must offer a familiar environment to these coders , especially in the case where Pharo offers no real alternative. >>> >>> Arguing that just because Smalltalk offers a different way of doing things ok to ignore what others are been doing, is an excuse destined to collapse on itself when Smalltalk for decades and still even Pharo fails to offer , not only good alternatives but even bad ones , in case of command line. >>> >>> Which means that currently Pharo offers no real alternative for functionality that is offered via the command line, that means: >>> 1) No library to deal with Git directly , Gitfiletree does this through the command line >>> 2) No command line alternative for interaction with a vast array of software like VLC, ImageMagick, video converters, audio converters , programming languages etc etc >>> 3) Even when we take a look at pharo ecosystem the command like reigns supreme, for example a trip to the pharo website success stories make its clear that by far the most popular platform for commercial pharo apps is the web . Guess what tool the web developers use the most ? Yeap the command line. We make the life of those people that want to use pharo professionally really really hard. >>> >>> Programming and coding is about covering a vast array of scenarios and maybe in a small community of a few hundred like pharo maybe its ok to ignore the command line but I can assure you in a community like Python that is more than 2 million , it is not. >>> >>> We already got command line integration for pharo outside the image , lets make the logical next step and offer also command line support from inside the image as well. Let's not justify the stereotype that "Smalltalk is a distant lone island, just because" or that is outdated. >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:25 PM Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> 2016-10-28 14:12 GMT+02:00 Guille Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com>: >>> But the functionality is there, it's just that it is not loaded by default. >>> >>> Loading it by default implies wedding Pharo's life cycle with OS(Sub)Process' one, and having to maintain the possibility of dependencies to OS(Sub)Process spreading in the entire environment. >>> >>> Like many of the other projects loaded by default in a Pharo image. What is wrong with OSSubprocess or OSProcess so that they can't be treated the same? >>> >>> What is wrong in executing a simple Metacello command to load it? >>> >>> The fact the image doesn't come as a one download / ready to use for an average user? >>> >>> Thierry >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> I have a love and hate relationship with Pharo >>>> this one I will put in the hate category >>>> >>>> You expect people to use pharo when you do not offer functionality they come to expect from the language they already use and not even offer an altervative, say a library with similar command line functionality (See Scale). >>>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:59 PM Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Am 28.10.2016 um 13:17 schrieb Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: >>>>> >>>>> I just noticed that OSProcess misses from Pharo 6 image, it was supposed to be replaced by OSSubProcess but this not in the image either ? What we suppose to use to execute bash from inside pharo ? >>>> It was never in the image. You need to install it in order to use it. >>>> >>>> Norbert >>>> >>>> >> >> > >

Oct. 28, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] [ALERT] Pharo by Example version 5 is about to be released

by Dimitris Chloupis

my pleasure I think all 3 books must be front page indeed , PBE5 , Pharo for the Enterprise and Deep Into Pharo Newcomers 99% of the time they only notice PBE1 and that for me is unacceptable, Pharo is not as it is when I started using it 5 years ago with almost zero documentation , we have come a long way and those books need to be front page to make sure people are aware that we have good documentation. The only thing remaining till the release is for me to update the Reflection chapter , the rest of the book looks ok and the issues reported are not show stoppers for the release most of them are new content request that can wait for next version. On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:58 PM <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Thank you for pushing this new version of Pharo by Example ! > > Would be nice to put Pharo 5.0 edition in the cover maybe ? > > EnvoyÃ© de mon iPhone > > > Le 28 oct. 2016 Ã 15:47, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> a Ã©crit : > > > > we need a fresnel lens and such books are some :) > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_lens > > > > > >> Le 27/10/16 Ã 13:32, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : > >> In case someone missed it I will be doing a release for version 5 > (pharo version = pbe version) this weekend , since we had Pharo 7 initiated > few days ago. > >> > >> Essentially that means that the repo will be tagged for version 5, > which means a git commit is associated as a last commit for that version > and there will be a frozen release - download for Pharo by Example version > 5. After that we move to Pharo By Example version 6 or PBE6 for short > >> > >> The repo wont change otherwise and the process of submitting commits, > pull requests and issues remains the same. > >> > >> If you have found a flaw of any sort in the documentation , please open > an issue in the github issue tracker that can be found here > >> > >> https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample/issues > >> > >> I will try to fix any problem reported but if I cannot , the fix will > have to move to version 6 > >> > >> As always thanks to all people contributing into the impossible .... > making Pharo more amazing > >> > >> If you want to contribute feel free to do so with a pull request. > >> > >> Does not matter if you are beginner because even minor corrections like > correcting mistakes in the grammar or content of the text, updated > pictures, or just a few lines of extra info are more than enough and more > than welcomed. Many Pharo beginners have already done so . > >> > >> -Salute to fellow Guardians of The Light > > > > > >

Oct. 28, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] OSProcess missing from Pharo 6 image

by stepharo

This is also part of the vision document. Now first SubOSProcess should work on windows. Then Guillermo is RIGHT. We will continue to work on - creating a pharo minimal image - producing configurations - creating one image with default loaded configurations. You see the two objectives are not antagonists. Now you should all stop to think about Pharo a being one image. Pharo should be - a minimal core - a nicely tested distribution - potentially one validated configuration we all like. But it cannot be a monolithic system where people create dependency hell without even noticing it. Stef Le 28/10/16 Ã 15:29, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©crit : > For what it is worth, I am with Dimitris on this: sub shell execution is so fundamental that it should be a standard part of the image. I always thought that that was the goal of the new OSSubProcess. > >> On 28 Oct 2016, at 15:25, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> For those not experienced with other language let me offer here an explanation why having something like OSProcess is vastly important. >> >> Coding even before the time of Smalltalk has been tied to the command line, even in this day all languages come with the ability of the command line to use them and them to use the command line. >> >> Since increasing the size of our community is paramount to the acceleration of the growth and evolution of pharo , it is also paramount to smooth out the learning curve of Smalltalk. In order to do that we must offer a familiar environment to these coders , especially in the case where Pharo offers no real alternative. >> >> Arguing that just because Smalltalk offers a different way of doing things ok to ignore what others are been doing, is an excuse destined to collapse on itself when Smalltalk for decades and still even Pharo fails to offer , not only good alternatives but even bad ones , in case of command line. >> >> Which means that currently Pharo offers no real alternative for functionality that is offered via the command line, that means: >> 1) No library to deal with Git directly , Gitfiletree does this through the command line >> 2) No command line alternative for interaction with a vast array of software like VLC, ImageMagick, video converters, audio converters , programming languages etc etc >> 3) Even when we take a look at pharo ecosystem the command like reigns supreme, for example a trip to the pharo website success stories make its clear that by far the most popular platform for commercial pharo apps is the web . Guess what tool the web developers use the most ? Yeap the command line. We make the life of those people that want to use pharo professionally really really hard. >> >> Programming and coding is about covering a vast array of scenarios and maybe in a small community of a few hundred like pharo maybe its ok to ignore the command line but I can assure you in a community like Python that is more than 2 million , it is not. >> >> We already got command line integration for pharo outside the image , lets make the logical next step and offer also command line support from inside the image as well. Let's not justify the stereotype that "Smalltalk is a distant lone island, just because" or that is outdated. >> >> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:25 PM Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> 2016-10-28 14:12 GMT+02:00 Guille Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com>: >> But the functionality is there, it's just that it is not loaded by default. >> >> Loading it by default implies wedding Pharo's life cycle with OS(Sub)Process' one, and having to maintain the possibility of dependencies to OS(Sub)Process spreading in the entire environment. >> >> Like many of the other projects loaded by default in a Pharo image. What is wrong with OSSubprocess or OSProcess so that they can't be treated the same? >> >> >> What is wrong in executing a simple Metacello command to load it? >> >> The fact the image doesn't come as a one download / ready to use for an average user? >> >> Thierry >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >>> I have a love and hate relationship with Pharo >>> this one I will put in the hate category >>> >>> You expect people to use pharo when you do not offer functionality they come to expect from the language they already use and not even offer an altervative, say a library with similar command line functionality (See Scale). >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:59 PM Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >>> >>>> Am 28.10.2016 um 13:17 schrieb Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: >>>> >>>> I just noticed that OSProcess misses from Pharo 6 image, it was supposed to be replaced by OSSubProcess but this not in the image either ? What we suppose to use to execute bash from inside pharo ? >>> It was never in the image. You need to install it in order to use it. >>> >>> Norbert >>> >>> > >

Oct. 28, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] [ALERT] Pharo by Example version 5 is about to be released

by serge.stinckwich＠gmail.com

Thank you for pushing this new version of Pharo by Example ! Would be nice to put Pharo 5.0 edition in the cover maybe ? EnvoyÃ© de mon iPhone > Le 28 oct. 2016 Ã 15:47, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> a Ã©crit : > > we need a fresnel lens and such books are some :) > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_lens > > >> Le 27/10/16 Ã 13:32, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : >> In case someone missed it I will be doing a release for version 5 (pharo version = pbe version) this weekend , since we had Pharo 7 initiated few days ago. >> >> Essentially that means that the repo will be tagged for version 5, which means a git commit is associated as a last commit for that version and there will be a frozen release - download for Pharo by Example version 5. After that we move to Pharo By Example version 6 or PBE6 for short >> >> The repo wont change otherwise and the process of submitting commits, pull requests and issues remains the same. >> >> If you have found a flaw of any sort in the documentation , please open an issue in the github issue tracker that can be found here >> >> https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample/issues >> >> I will try to fix any problem reported but if I cannot , the fix will have to move to version 6 >> >> As always thanks to all people contributing into the impossible .... making Pharo more amazing >> >> If you want to contribute feel free to do so with a pull request. >> >> Does not matter if you are beginner because even minor corrections like correcting mistakes in the grammar or content of the text, updated pictures, or just a few lines of extra info are more than enough and more than welcomed. Many Pharo beginners have already done so . >> >> -Salute to fellow Guardians of The Light > >

Oct. 28, 2016