- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

small examples to show the tools

by Christian Haider

Hi all, in two weeks, I am going to give a little talk about Smalltalk: http://metameute.de/nook2016/ . It is 45 min with students who probably never heard of Smalltalk. I want to concentrate on the liveliness of the environment with the tools: Workspace, Inspector, Browser and Debugger. For this, I need a simple but nice example. I will use VisualWorks 8.2 and Mirko, a new Smalltalk lover, will use Pharo 5. We want to have the computers connected, maybe also a Pi, to show the platform independence of the image concept. The first idea was a chat client. A client and a server in one image. Then in two images on one machine, on two machines (also the Pi), maybe in two dialects (VW, Pharo). Possible to transfer code (blocks) across images (that should blow their minds :)). This is cool, but I am not sure if this is not too much and distracting with other technologies. Another is to read a csv file or web service and parse it into objects. With the right kind of cool data it is fun to mold these objects for the tools. This not so sexy, but easy to do from scratch. Unfortunately, the different computers would not play a role. As you see, I am a bit lost and wanted to ask you guys for ideas. Happy hacking, Christian P.S. Here in LÃ¼beck, a town in northern Germany, the attitude towards Smalltalk is generally positive, interested and curious. Maybe it is time for a Smalltalk renaissance?

Oct. 30, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo By Example 5.0

by Dimitris Chloupis

I forgot to add that the final render of the book cover can be found here https://gitlab.com/Kilon/pbe5-cover/raw/master/Pharo%20demo/renders/render-… have fun :) On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 9:38 PM Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > As promised I released PBE5.0 just now, which basically puts a tag to our > github repository to mark the beginning of version 5 and also provided a > release in a fork of separate downloads for the book and the repository > itself which anything that is required to build the book. > > If you want just to read , downloading the pdf is enough. You can get the > release from here > > > https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample/releases/t… > > Unfortunately I was not able to port the Reflection chapter , it needs a > ton of work , probably a complete rewrite but since its a late chapter and > we already have achieved a 80% updating I think it was the right time now > that pharo 7 is starting developing . > > Still till PBE6.0 we have a long way to go but I think we can get there > far easier than we got from PBE1.4 to PBE5.0. > > The rest of the details are in the link. > > Salute to fellow Guardians of the Light :) >

Oct. 29, 2016

[ANN] Pharo By Example 5.0

by Dimitris Chloupis

As promised I released PBE5.0 just now, which basically puts a tag to our github repository to mark the beginning of version 5 and also provided a release in a fork of separate downloads for the book and the repository itself which anything that is required to build the book. If you want just to read , downloading the pdf is enough. You can get the release from here https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample/releases/t… Unfortunately I was not able to port the Reflection chapter , it needs a ton of work , probably a complete rewrite but since its a late chapter and we already have achieved a 80% updating I think it was the right time now that pharo 7 is starting developing . Still till PBE6.0 we have a long way to go but I think we can get there far easier than we got from PBE1.4 to PBE5.0. The rest of the details are in the link. Salute to fellow Guardians of the Light :)

Oct. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Cover for PBE5

by Dimitris Chloupis

I did not want to go with the original design because frankly that is not my style. I rather have something unique. Extruding the logo would look very boring and its definitely something I dont want to do. I love the original design because it is really suits many scenarios including icons and because its a good design. However here we dont talk about a simple logo to be used everywhere, this is a book cover and plus Stef asked me to use this that I have created in the past. The original design can continue to be around since it can serve many other roles. Python books for example rarely use the python logo, usually they have some painted snake or even mouse etc. By rarely I mean extremely rarely. https://goo.gl/b67ETW Another reason is that 3d graphics are quite hard to make , so its not that simple for me to start from scratch and have something ready in 1 day. The only thing I can do is tweak this to make it slightly better. On a question of form, its not a problem this is a 3d scene as such its extremely flexible on how I can render this, it can be resized in any way and change in proportion. In any case I have zero issues with going with the original cover or a design not made by gets picked. I made this render because I will use it as a background to my blog anyway so it wont go to waste. On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 5:05 PM Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > Nice, but I guess this was originally for something else since its not > in the book form factor which will change your composition. It would > be good to see a sample in book form factor. > > Also Pharo has its brand with the lighthouse in the big-O that I guess > it would be good to follow like the other books... > http://files.pharo.org/books/ > > How would it look to extrude logo.svg from here...? > https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-flyers/tree/master/figures > > cheers -ben > > On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 8:36 PM, Dimitris Chloupis > <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > So Stef reminded me that we are going to need a cover for PBE5 , so I > > decided to revive my now 2 year old pharo logo render and enhance it. I > > decided also to release all assets under MIT license as a present to the > > community. The repo can be found here > > > > https://gitlab.com/Kilon/pbe5-cover/tree/master > > > > latest render can be found here > > > > > https://gitlab.com/Kilon/pbe5-cover/raw/master/Pharo%20demo/renders/render-… > > > > this is not final render I have a few thing to improve but it is 90% > there. > > > > Hope you like, I leave the final decision on Stef. > >

Oct. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] OSProcess missing from Pharo 6 image

by Dimitris Chloupis

"I'm probably not contributing anything of value to this conversation... :-) IMHO, most people who settle on Smalltalk aren't "not experienced with other language". Pierce" No idea where you have drawn that conclusion maybe it was true in the past or outside Pharo but Pharo is mostly used for web apps and that means you have to know both HTML5/CSS and Javascript and SQL for databases. Sticking to a single language is rarely a good idea mainly because even though languages are meant to be used for everything they have to a degree specific areas that they excel which makes them ideal choices for those situations. "As Guile explained it, it is a matter of responsibility to include a package in the Pharo image. The more packages in the base Pharo image the more complicated is the release process for the Pharo team, and more stress, etc." I think that's an overgeneralisation and a really lousy excuses. If conflicts occur between versions then its not the library that needs to be blamed but Pharo itself. Backward compatibility is a necessary evil in the end. When Pharo started indeed it went through a period of flux with many deep redesigns etc of course those things are a headache for those that maintain packages inside or outside the Pharo official distribution. Those braking enhancements were necessary to establish a healthy and stable code base and very much welcomed. However the honeymoon period has ended and Pharo cannot afford to brake compatibility anymore since more and more people are using it and none of us will be happy if we have to rewrite our software from scratch to accommodate new redesigns of Pharo code base in each version. An example is Python, Python 3 did brake backward compatibility with Python 2, because its creator Guido felt it was time for a deep redesign and most people agreed with him. But even though users approved the new improvements the cost for Python was massive . Python 3 was released in 2008 , 8 years later and still Python 2 is by far the most popular choice for python coders. It even been a reason not to use Python at all because of the brake between version 2 and 3. https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/pythonengineering/2016/03/08/python-3-is-w… So after 8 years , at last , Python 3 has catch up with Python 2 , mainly because all new projects chose python 3 and all old ones stick with Python 2. 8 years is how many years Pharo has been around. This has led the creator of Python to even claim that he regrets making Python 3 non backward compatible with Python and please note Python 3 comes with a special tool that can convert Python 2 code to Python 3 automagically. Still because the tool was far from perfect people chose to stick with Python 2. So for a stable environment that retains backward compatibility the cost of maintenance of individual packages should be zero to close to zero. Saying that my experience with my own code base shown me that in real life scenarios the maintenance is very little since after version 4 , Pharo has not done any radical change. In any case if Pharo is a pain to maintain , even only under the condition that a ton of packages added to it, we must wonder as a community whether this is the direction we want to go. Pharo will inevitably grow in popularity which will make its usage in big software more likely if maintenance cost is high it defeats the purpose of using Smalltalk in the first place.

Oct. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Cover for PBE5

by Ben Coman

Nice, but I guess this was originally for something else since its not in the book form factor which will change your composition. It would be good to see a sample in book form factor. Also Pharo has its brand with the lighthouse in the big-O that I guess it would be good to follow like the other books... http://files.pharo.org/books/ How would it look to extrude logo.svg from here...? https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-flyers/tree/master/figures cheers -ben On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 8:36 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > So Stef reminded me that we are going to need a cover for PBE5 , so I > decided to revive my now 2 year old pharo logo render and enhance it. I > decided also to release all assets under MIT license as a present to the > community. The repo can be found here > > https://gitlab.com/Kilon/pbe5-cover/tree/master > > latest render can be found here > > https://gitlab.com/Kilon/pbe5-cover/raw/master/Pharo%20demo/renders/render-… > > this is not final render I have a few thing to improve but it is 90% there. > > Hope you like, I leave the final decision on Stef.

Oct. 29, 2016

Cover for PBE5

by Dimitris Chloupis

So Stef reminded me that we are going to need a cover for PBE5 , so I decided to revive my now 2 year old pharo logo render and enhance it. I decided also to release all assets under MIT license as a present to the community. The repo can be found here https://gitlab.com/Kilon/pbe5-cover/tree/master latest render can be found here https://gitlab.com/Kilon/pbe5-cover/raw/master/Pharo%20demo/renders/render-… this is not final render I have a few thing to improve but it is 90% there. Hope you like, I leave the final decision on Stef.

Oct. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] OSProcess missing from Pharo 6 image

by Pierce Ng

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 01:25:25PM +0000, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > For those not experienced with other language I'm probably not contributing anything of value to this conversation... :-) IMHO, most people who settle on Smalltalk aren't "not experienced with other language". Pierce

Oct. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] OSProcess missing from Pharo 6 image

by Hilaire

>From my perspective it depends on your previous programming experiences. After programming C++ for a few years, I immediately saw the huge potential of Smalltalk (Squeak at this time) with image, live programming, etc even if at that same time I did not understand at all any details. Free software mates not dedicated to programming but to mere scripting did not see that benefit, but more a nuisance in this image based system. But then after you have the main stream people prefer to follow. Hilaire Le 29/10/2016 Ã 08:43, phil(a)highoctane.be a Ã©crit : > This 5 years time span looks like accurate in what it takes to become > somewhat proficient with Pharo. > > I am curious to know how long one required to grok it. Because there is > a world between the "syntax on a postcard" narrative and the "dig in the > bowels of the beast" narrative. > > Anyone? -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Oct. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] OSProcess missing from Pharo 6 image

by Hilaire

Dimitris, As Guile explained it, it is a matter of responsibility to include a package in the Pharo image. The more packages in the base Pharo image the more complicated is the release process for the Pharo team, and more stress, etc. Nevertheless, a complement Pharo release with additional packages is possible and can be automated with Jenkins. But another team need to take this specific responsibility. The Smalltalk community has been discussing this matter for decades. Hope it clarify Hilaire Le 28/10/2016 Ã 15:05, Guille Polito a Ã©crit : > What I mean, adding a package inside the image can bring also a lot of > problems to package maintainers, so doing it just because "others do it" > is not a good argument. -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Oct. 29, 2016