- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Google visibility?

by Dimitris Chloupis

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 11:12 AM jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de < jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> wrote: I remember the days when all my newsgroups were in my Mail client (opera or thunderbird). Stuff was easy and you could search stuff. Everything was in one place., be it chess related, car repair tips or computing stuff. I used the same GUI for all of that. And everybody went there, not to a number of othjer places. These days we use StackOverflow. Or ServerFault. Or Google+/Groups. Or Facebook, or Xing or Twitter or you name it. Sure, we have bots to copy everything from everywhere to anywehre else. But, hey, where's the value of this. Even worse: if somebody happens to drop by comp.lang.smalltalk, they must have the impression this is a long gone technology, because we now discuss elsewhere and left that space to pill and investment bandits and trolls Google Groups .... seriously ? Google groups were never popular and practically almost none cares about it, its one the thousands failed abandonware products of Google. G+ is not in a much better state either. Mailing lists and IRC is still by far the most popular with open source projects. Anything else is far less. " But, hey, we're off-topic now.... Joachim ;-) " Essentially the title of the thread is "what I can search pharo related with google search" .... so , no we are not. In order to be off topic we will have to discuss something that is not pharo and google search related. So let me rest assure you , you are way on topic, nothing to worry about. Actually I have to thank you because with Google Groups you reminded me another site to add to that google search query, Reddit. Not as active as world.st but active enough , so add that to that query pharo spec site:world.st OR site:stackoverflow.com OR site:github.com OR site:reddit.com/r/smalltalk/

Jan. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Google visibility?

by jtuchel＠objektfabrik.de

Okay, now that I helped hitchhike this thread into completely different spheres... ;-) I don't think this is only a question of enjoying old tech or vintage fanboyhood. It is also about questonable added value of new technologies. I remember the days when all my newsgroups were in my Mail client (opera or thunderbird). Stuff was easy and you could search stuff. Everything was in one place., be it chess related, car repair tips or computing stuff. I used the same GUI for all of that. And everybody went there, not to a number of othjer places. These days we use StackOverflow. Or ServerFault. Or Google+/Groups. Or Facebook, or Xing or Twitter or you name it. Sure, we have bots to copy everything from everywhere to anywehre else. But, hey, where's the value of this. Even worse: if somebody happens to drop by comp.lang.smalltalk, they must have the impression this is a long gone technology, because we now discuss elsewhere and left that space to pill and investment bandits and trolls. But, hey, we're off-topic now.... Joachim ;-) Am 13.01.17 um 09:58 schrieb Dimitris Chloupis: > "Is the usenet still around? It had all of what you ask for, without the > > colors and emojis, though" > > Everything is still around and kicking, usenets , bbs , Amiga, > Amstrad, Atari , dos and a much more > > All of the actively developed with colors, emojis , acess to internet, > 3D graphics, movies, sound, music and integrated with many modern > technologies because vintage will always be super cool and enjoyable > > It may surprise Pharo developers since for many of them is kinda like > a taboo to a admit the true age of Pharo legacy code, but there a ton > of people that prefer the simplicity and elegance of 30 year old > technology over new technology anyway. Obviously because they are > aware how easy it is to integrate old with new. > > I was recently at the Athens comic con festival and one of the main > attractions was an area dedicated to vintage computers and consoles > with a very active community, they were even televised because they > allowed anyone to use these computers and because the con was a huge > success . > > I was pleasantly surprise to see people who enjoyed using these > computers were not people raised with amigas and Amstrad and ataris > but also kids raised with modern pcs , PS4 , Xbox one etc. Showing > that anyone can enjoy old technology. > > > > > > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de D-71640 Ludwigsburg http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1

Jan. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Google visibility?

by Dimitris Chloupis

"Is the usenet still around? It had all of what you ask for, without the colors and emojis, though" Everything is still around and kicking, usenets , bbs , Amiga, Amstrad, Atari , dos and a much more All of the actively developed with colors, emojis , acess to internet, 3D graphics, movies, sound, music and integrated with many modern technologies because vintage will always be super cool and enjoyable It may surprise Pharo developers since for many of them is kinda like a taboo to a admit the true age of Pharo legacy code, but there a ton of people that prefer the simplicity and elegance of 30 year old technology over new technology anyway. Obviously because they are aware how easy it is to integrate old with new. I was recently at the Athens comic con festival and one of the main attractions was an area dedicated to vintage computers and consoles with a very active community, they were even televised because they allowed anyone to use these computers and because the con was a huge success . I was pleasantly surprise to see people who enjoyed using these computers were not people raised with amigas and Amstrad and ataris but also kids raised with modern pcs , PS4 , Xbox one etc. Showing that anyone can enjoy old technology.

Jan. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Google visibility?

by jtuchel＠objektfabrik.de

Am 13.01.17 um 09:38 schrieb Norbert Hartl: > > So, the chat might be exactly the medium for you because you can edit messages afterwards ; > > Norbert Or somebody should revoke my internet users' licence ;-) Joachim

Jan. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Google visibility?

by Norbert Hartl

> Am 13.01.2017 um 09:36 schrieb jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de: > > ... it's official now: I don't know the difference between discussion groups and a chat.... > > So forget my last post, or simply accept that I'm not a chat fan. > Often enough, I hardly understand what I am talking about, so a typical chat session is far beyond my horizon ;-) > So, the chat might be exactly the medium for you because you can edit messages afterwards ;) Norbert

Jan. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Google visibility?

by jtuchel＠objektfabrik.de

... it's official now: I don't know the difference between discussion groups and a chat.... So forget my last post, or simply accept that I'm not a chat fan. Often enough, I hardly understand what I am talking about, so a typical chat session is far beyond my horizon ;-) Joachim

Jan. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Google visibility?

by jtuchel＠objektfabrik.de

Am 13.01.17 um 09:25 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano: > unless we pay. > they basically kidnap our messages and demand a ransom for them (and is expensive)â¦ and the model seems to work, everybody prefers using that than a searchable tool :( no, you give them to them for free and liberally. People don't understand the difference and tend to shout out: bad guys, we need more laws! > > I would prefer to use an open tool, but wellâ¦ slack gives us a lot of features and life is like this :( Is the usenet still around? It had all of what you ask for, without the colors and emojis, though. The ones from my generation may remember comp.lang.smalltalk and subforums. It was a great way to publicly discuss things... Sorry for this, but I couldn't hold it back. .. and please, be careful before you shout: Google groups! > Joachim

Jan. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Google visibility?

by Dimitris Chloupis

There are open source alternatives This https://rocket.chat And this https://riot.im/app/#/directory On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 at 10:26, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > unless we pay. > they basically kidnap our messages and demand a ransom for them (and is > expensive)â¦ and the model seems to work, everybody prefers using that than > a searchable tool :( > > I would prefer to use an open tool, but wellâ¦ slack gives us a lot of > features and life is like this :( > > Esteban > > > On 13 Jan 2017, at 09:04, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > > > so it is not publicly available/visible/indexable ? > > so everything written there basically disappears ? > > > >> On 13 Jan 2017, at 09:01, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> Slack encrypts the message history and it only stores 10.000 messages > >> > >> You could use the Slack search feature > >> > >> > https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/202528808-Search-for-messages-and-… > >> > >> On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 at 08:40, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> > wrote: > >> and slack is closed, right ? > >> > >> > >> > >>> On 13 Jan 2017, at 01:36, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Google already is capable on focusing on Pharo related websites. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> The core of our documentation is located on 3 websites > >> > >>> > >> > >>> World.st , this sites includes a forum website for all the Smalltalk > related mailing lists > >> > >>> Stackoverflow, Pharo has its own tag and a ton of answered questions > >> > >>> Github.com, here are located all the Pharo books > >> > >>> > >> > >>> So to search all documentation about Spec on only these 3 websites you > use the following search query > >> > >>> > >> > >>> pharo spec site:world.st OR site:stackoverflow.com OR site:github.com > >> > >>> > >> > >>> There are other ways to customize a google search query , please look > at google search documentation > >> > >>> On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 at 11:38, Siemen Baader <siemenbaader(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >>> Has anybody looked into SEO'ing any of the great documentation and > archived questions on the mailing list? > >> > >>> > >> > >>> It strikes me that I often can't find the answer to questions I have > on Google, but they are often answered in material that I can find when I > look manually for some time or am pointed at it by an experienced member of > the community. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> I also miss Pharo - content on Stackoverflow, it is a very efficient > way to get past road blocks quickly. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Any thoughts or history to bring me up to speed with? > >> > >>> > >> > >>> cheers, > >> > >>> Siemen > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >

Jan. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Google visibility?

by Esteban Lorenzano

unless we pay. they basically kidnap our messages and demand a ransom for them (and is expensive)â¦ and the model seems to work, everybody prefers using that than a searchable tool :( I would prefer to use an open tool, but wellâ¦ slack gives us a lot of features and life is like this :( Esteban > On 13 Jan 2017, at 09:04, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > so it is not publicly available/visible/indexable ? > so everything written there basically disappears ? > >> On 13 Jan 2017, at 09:01, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Slack encrypts the message history and it only stores 10.000 messages >> >> You could use the Slack search feature >> >> https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/202528808-Search-for-messages-and-… >> >> On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 at 08:40, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> and slack is closed, right ? >> >> >> >>> On 13 Jan 2017, at 01:36, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Google already is capable on focusing on Pharo related websites. >> >>> >> >>> The core of our documentation is located on 3 websites >> >>> >> >>> World.st , this sites includes a forum website for all the Smalltalk related mailing lists >> >>> Stackoverflow, Pharo has its own tag and a ton of answered questions >> >>> Github.com, here are located all the Pharo books >> >>> >> >>> So to search all documentation about Spec on only these 3 websites you use the following search query >> >>> >> >>> pharo spec site:world.st OR site:stackoverflow.com OR site:github.com >> >>> >> >>> There are other ways to customize a google search query , please look at google search documentation >> >>> On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 at 11:38, Siemen Baader <siemenbaader(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Has anybody looked into SEO'ing any of the great documentation and archived questions on the mailing list? >> >>> >> >>> It strikes me that I often can't find the answer to questions I have on Google, but they are often answered in material that I can find when I look manually for some time or am pointed at it by an experienced member of the community. >> >>> >> >>> I also miss Pharo - content on Stackoverflow, it is a very efficient way to get past road blocks quickly. >> >>> >> >>> Any thoughts or history to bring me up to speed with? >> >>> >> >>> cheers, >> >>> Siemen >> >> >> >> >> > >

Jan. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Google visibility?

by Dimitris Chloupis

Neither is IRC but that has not stopped irc users from creating bots that keep track of a irc channel's message history in logs that are automatically uploaded to websites searchable by google. Unlike Slack , IRC is even worse not even it does not store the last 10k messages , it does not even store ANY message , yet it's by very far the most popular chat client for open source projects Proving that even the worse idea can be turned to the best idea very easily On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 at 10:18, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > so it is not a good idea for an open source project, as I feared. > > > On 13 Jan 2017, at 09:15, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > It eventually disappears , it keep the last 10.000 messages > > > > No it's not publicly visible quite the contrary , Slack prioritize > privacy because it's meant to be used by teams working on commercial > projects which are the ones more likely to pay for a slack subscription. > > > > If you want to search as a teams's history you need to gain access as a > guest or a member , in both cases you will need an invite. So it makes > little sense for Slack to give Google Acess to its teams history. > > > > If you as a team want to have unlimited messages then you will need to > pay for the Slack subscription. > > > > Of course none can stop us from creating a bot that will copy the > messages to an HTML website , that Google can search, hence lifting the 10k > limit as well. Or even better commit those messages to a github repo that > can be loaded as a project inside a Pharo image > > On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 at 10:05, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> > wrote: > > so it is not publicly available/visible/indexable ? > > > > so everything written there basically disappears ? > > > > > > > > > On 13 Jan 2017, at 09:01, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Slack encrypts the message history and it only stores 10.000 messages > > > > > > > > > > You could use the Slack search feature > > > > > > > > > > > https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/202528808-Search-for-messages-and-… > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 at 08:40, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> > wrote: > > > > > and slack is closed, right ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 13 Jan 2017, at 01:36, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Google already is capable on focusing on Pharo related websites. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The core of our documentation is located on 3 websites > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > World.st , this sites includes a forum website for all the Smalltalk > related mailing lists > > > > > > > > > > > Stackoverflow, Pharo has its own tag and a ton of answered questions > > > > > > > > > > > Github.com, here are located all the Pharo books > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So to search all documentation about Spec on only these 3 websites > you use the following search query > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pharo spec site:world.st OR site:stackoverflow.com OR site: > github.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are other ways to customize a google search query , please > look at google search documentation > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 at 11:38, Siemen Baader <siemenbaader(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Has anybody looked into SEO'ing any of the great documentation and > archived questions on the mailing list? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It strikes me that I often can't find the answer to questions I have > on Google, but they are often answered in material that I can find when I > look manually for some time or am pointed at it by an experienced member of > the community. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also miss Pharo - content on Stackoverflow, it is a very > efficient way to get past road blocks quickly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts or history to bring me up to speed with? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > Siemen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Jan. 13, 2017