- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Critical issues for Dr. Geo on P6

by Tim Mackinnon

Just to chip in - I hope we can get past this bump (and I think it is a bump). I am actually ecstatic that recent improvements - a 64bit vm, a minimal image and git integration, have opened the door to Pharo working on AWS Lambda. Also having a CI system to help crank these things out is also a big win. So I applaud the work, progress and vision that has got us here ! All large systems accrue infrastructure and unexpected dependencies that take effort to modernise. I don't think this is solely a Pharo thing. (I just recently worked with a Java team that used SnapCI for builds, and when it was shut down it was 6+ weeks to migrate off it and stabilise things). We are close - we just need to rally around to get a good stable base that can support the next round of revolution (aka P7). Tim Sent from my iPhone > On 28 Jul 2017, at 11:00, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 9:34 AM, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: >> I don't share your enthusiasm. >> >> I once set up a satisfactory build environment for DrGeo, based on P3. As long as I stay with P3, I can concentrate on DrGeo code: write the code, then fire up a build script to deploy the application. Now porting to P6 is a pain: the infrastructure to deploy a desktop application has not evolve since P3, I have to build again a deployment environment from scratch (VM support, shrinked/built image, I don't know the promise of minimal image build up is not palpable for me). >> >> Now If I have to spend days on that, I am not sure I will do it again, I can't compete against other geometry application if I have to fight against pharo too. What I want is to concentrate working on DrGeo not Pharo, sorry to make it explicit but I can't much offer to do both. >> > > âI have sometimes the same concerns with Pharo or some tools of the Pharo ecosystem. I know that we are trying to do our best and regarding the number of core developers we have already an incredible platform. But sometimes, you need to very simple updates and because of subtle problems with VM/configurations/CI/ etc ... this is not that simple and we need to spend times on boring stuff. > > There is no simple solution. > > One solution might be that the core developers only focus on core Pharo functionalities but I think this is somewhat difficult, because most of the dev are from RMOD. RMOD is a research unit and could not spend all his money/effort on an engineering process. > > Another solution is to grow our community. More people, more companies to sustain more engineers through the consortium. The more people we are able to attract, the more people will help to develop working solutions for problems like deployment or to have bug-fixing intermediate releases. > > âThis is why we all need âin the community to do as much as possible advertisements: lectures at universities, talk to your colleague about Pharo, do demos in companies, at open-source forums, use Twitter do talk about Pharo ecosystem, the software you are developing with Pharo. > Don't hide problems but talk about our nice platform and our community. > > We have done this with Stephane in the early days of Pharo at open-source forums in France and I remember that you come in the community after we meet you in one of these forums :-) > So DrGeo2 exists because of this kind of advertisement. > > Regards, > > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UCN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

July 28, 2017

[ANN] Mustache moved to github

by Norbert Hartl

In the spirit of git notificationâ¦I moved mustache to github. https://github.com/noha/mustache <https://github.com/noha/mustache> Enjoy! Norbert

July 28, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Shameful advertisement

by Luke Gorrie

Hi Serge, Just wanted to say that you guys do a really nice job of advocating for Pharo and promoting it :). I joined the association now and will be sure to plug Pharo. It's great. I wouldn't build my current application at all if I didn't have Pharo/Glamour/Roassal as a base... it would be too much work. On 28 July 2017 at 11:10, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > I was talking about Twitter in my previous email. This is a nice way to > advertise the work of the community to others communities. > > Now some **shameful advertisement** : you can subscribe to my Twitter > account here: > https://twitter.com/SergeStinckwich > > I try my best to publish info about Pharo/Smalltalk community and with my > 1733 followers I can have some impact sometimes. > > Please send me a private email if you want to advertise something specific > about your work. > > They are other interesting accounts to follow: > - PharoProject: https://twitter.com/pharoproject > - PharoJS: https://twitter.com/pharojs > â- StÃ©phane Ducasse: https://twitter.com/stephaneducasse > - Tudor Girba : https://twitter.com/girba > â- ObjectProfile : https://twitter.com/ObjectProfile > > âand many others !â > > âRegards,â > > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UCN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/ >

July 28, 2017

Shameful advertisement

by Serge Stinckwich

Hi all, I was talking about Twitter in my previous email. This is a nice way to advertise the work of the community to others communities. Now some **shameful advertisement** : you can subscribe to my Twitter account here: https://twitter.com/SergeStinckwich I try my best to publish info about Pharo/Smalltalk community and with my 1733 followers I can have some impact sometimes. Please send me a private email if you want to advertise something specific about your work. They are other interesting accounts to follow: - PharoProject: https://twitter.com/pharoproject - PharoJS: https://twitter.com/pharojs â- StÃ©phane Ducasse: https://twitter.com/stephaneducasse - Tudor Girba : https://twitter.com/girba â- ObjectProfile : https://twitter.com/ObjectProfile âand many others !â âRegards,â -- Serge Stinckwich UCN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

July 28, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Critical issues for Dr. Geo on P6

by Serge Stinckwich

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 9:34 AM, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > I don't share your enthusiasm. > > I once set up a satisfactory build environment for DrGeo, based on P3. As > long as I stay with P3, I can concentrate on DrGeo code: write the code, > then fire up a build script to deploy the application. Now porting to P6 is > a pain: the infrastructure to deploy a desktop application has not evolve > since P3, I have to build again a deployment environment from scratch (VM > support, shrinked/built image, I don't know the promise of minimal image > build up is not palpable for me). > > Now If I have to spend days on that, I am not sure I will do it again, I > can't compete against other geometry application if I have to fight against > pharo too. What I want is to concentrate working on DrGeo not Pharo, sorry > to make it explicit but I can't much offer to do both. > âI have sometimes the same concerns with Pharo or some tools of the Pharo ecosystem. I know that we are trying to do our best and regarding the number of core developers we have already an incredible platform. But sometimes, you need to very simple updates and because of subtle problems with VM/configurations/CI/ etc ... this is not that simple and we need to spend times on boring stuff. There is no simple solution. One solution might be that the core developers only focus on core Pharo functionalities but I think this is somewhat difficult, because most of the dev are from RMOD. RMOD is a research unit and could not spend all his money/effort on an engineering process. Another solution is to grow our community. More people, more companies to sustain more engineers through the consortium. The more people we are able to attract, the more people will help to develop working solutions for problems like deployment or to have bug-fixing intermediate releases. âThis is why we all need âin the community to do as much as possible advertisements: lectures at universities, talk to your colleague about Pharo, do demos in companies, at open-source forums, use Twitter do talk about Pharo ecosystem, the software you are developing with Pharo. Don't hide problems but talk about our nice platform and our community. We have done this with Stephane in the early days of Pharo at open-source forums in France and I remember that you come in the community after we meet you in one of these forums :-) So DrGeo2 exists because of this kind of advertisement. Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UCN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

July 28, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Critical issues for Dr. Geo on P6

by Hilaire

I don't share your enthusiasm. I once set up a satisfactory build environment for DrGeo, based on P3. As long as I stay with P3, I can concentrate on DrGeo code: write the code, then fire up a build script to deploy the application. Now porting to P6 is a pain: the infrastructure to deploy a desktop application has not evolve since P3, I have to build again a deployment environment from scratch (VM support, shrinked/built image, I don't know the promise of minimal image build up is not palpable for me). Now If I have to spend days on that, I am not sure I will do it again, I can't compete against other geometry application if I have to fight against pharo too. What I want is to concentrate working on DrGeo not Pharo, sorry to make it explicit but I can't much offer to do both. Hilaire Le 27/07/2017 Ã 21:28, Stephane Ducasse a Ã©crit : > Indeed. > I dreamed about the bootstrap in 2002:) so now I enjoy it:) > What I can tell you is that we will do another pass because we want > Pharo core around 200 k + 300 k for a slow vm. And we will have one > guy working on it during his PhD. > We will continue to push with Pavel, christophe and guille too. -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

July 28, 2017

Iceberg needs to gracefully revert to readonly

by Herby VojÄÃk

Hello! IMNSHO, now that Iceberg has three vendor-specific protocol (and before as well, because of people like me who do not have github account), Iceberg needs to gracefully revert to readonly access in case credentials are not present or do not allow full access to repository. This is primarily for dependencies of Configurations and Baselines. If any of them is github://, bitbucket:// or gitlab:// and the user happens not to have account on those systems, he will get LGit ssh credential error. Thoughts? ETA? Herby

July 28, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] How to calculate someone's age elegantly? Does Duration work?

by PBKResearch

JuliÃ¡n I donât know Chalten, but I wonder whether your definition of Person>>ageOn: will work correctly. Could I suggest you add two extra assertions to your test: assert: (john ageOn: February fifteenth , 2013) equals: (TimeUnits year with: 49); assert: (john ageOn: April first , 2013) equals: (TimeUnits year with: 50); Clearly these should be true, but I think they will not be â unless Date>>dayOfMonth works in a very counter-intuitive way. HTH Peter Kenny From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of JuliÃ¡n Maestri Sent: 27 July 2017 18:58 To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] How to calculate someone's age elegantly? Does Duration work? Using https://github.com/ba-st/Chalten the solution was something like this: Person>>ageOn: aDate | difference | difference := (aDate year distanceFrom: self dateOfBirth year). ^(aDate dayOfMonth < self dateOfBirth dayOfMonth) ifTrue: [difference - TimeUnits year unitaryMeasurement] ifFalse: [difference] Test for that testAge | john | john := Person namedFirst: 'John' last: 'Doe' born: March fourteenth , 1963. self assert: (john ageOn: March thirteenth , 2013) equals: (TimeUnits year with: 49); assert: (john ageOn: March fourteenth , 2013) equals: (TimeUnits year with: 50); assert: (john ageOn: March fifteenth , 2013) equals: (TimeUnits year with: 50) On 21 July 2017 at 14:25, Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works <mailto:tim@testit.works> > wrote: Paul - this is very helpful, gosh you learn a lot from what seemed like simple question. Your suggestion along with Subbuâs gives an easy workable solution - I also wonder if the method should be in the image along with the comment explaining half open intervals like you have. Do you think there is another name for that end method - displayEnd sounds like it actively displays - I wonder if boundedEnd or completeEnd or finiteEnd might be correct alternatives (or is displayEnd a decent convention that everyone understands?) I really have to learn how to submit pull requests (although it seems rather complicated at the moment while the full git integration process is being sorted out). Thanks everyone Tim > On 21 Jul 2017, at 16:40, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic(a)gmail.com <mailto:pdebruic@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Tim Mackinnon wrote >> I am also wondering if the issue with Timespan is concerning - I was >> surprised that putting a start and end date left me something that didnât >> answer my end date presumably down to rounding when itâs converted down to >> a duration (making me wonder if its better to keep a start and end date >> and calculate the duration on the fly). >> >> Tim > > > The Timespans are half open intervals. > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)) > > Friday July 21st ends at 11:59:59.99999999999... etc etc etc ...9999PM and > the 22nd starts at 12:00AM > > > If Timespans were closed intervals like you expect then we'd be out of whack > with our corner of the universe. That extra clock tick adds complexity. > > But I add a method to my image called #displayEnd because I also want them > to print 3PM-4PM and not 3PM-3:59:59.999999999PM and use that in my print > statements and rendering for Seaside. > > displayEnd > ^ start + duration > > > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/How-to-calculate-someone-s-age-elegantly-Does-Duratio… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

July 27, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Critical issues for Dr. Geo on P6

by Stephane Ducasse

Indeed. I dreamed about the bootstrap in 2002 :) so now I enjoy it :) What I can tell you is that we will do another pass because we want Pharo core around 200 k + 300 k for a slow vm. And we will have one guy working on it during his PhD. We will continue to push with Pavel, christophe and guille too. Stef On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:15 PM, Holger Freyther <holger(a)freyther.de> wrote: > >> On 22. Jul 2017, at 12:07, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi holger > > Hey Stef! > > > >> "the growth from Pharo3->Pharo6" us too :) >> this is why we invested in the bootstrap and this is why we will >> remove (and we started) packages and classes. >> And this is also why we will continue to repackage the system. > > yes this is very fascinating for Pharo7. It would be nice if we could track size (image+changes but also ram usage, object count) over time to see our progress. I recently added ordinary metric upload to my "bob-bench.org" test and metric tracking. ;) > > > holger

July 27, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Beyond Live Coding

by Stephane Ducasse

> > Which is why last month I joined the Association. I felt I needed to make > the commitment. I had thought I wanted to do BountySource on a monthly > basis. I signed up at the Association level but nothing happened with > regarding to any membership. So I went ahead and did the Annual fee. But I > do like the idea of monthly support. So I may do that again anyway. Excellent. I always said that the structure make us, individuals, more powerful. The consortium is also a good structure for the same reason: as a sme 1000 Euros brings nothing but when there are 50 sme, we get one engineer. > > I would love to see the monthly support via BountySource or directly to the > Association whichever is best for you to grow and help sustainability. Marcus knows everything and me nothing about the setup :) > I have also been thinking about ways to contribute of my time. I am looking > at how I can help with documentation type areas. Yes this is great. > The team that contributes toward Pharo is amazing, especially considering > the size. Tx. But you see there are many external contributors and they get an impact. > Again thanks. > > Jimmie > > > > On 07/22/2017 05:04 AM, Stephane Ducasse wrote: >> >> Thanks Jimmie. Do not hesitate to improve Pharo, because Pharo is what >> we have and each we can make it better. >> BTW: it was not my roadmap it is the result of everybody in the team >> brainstorming. > > > [snip] >

July 27, 2017