- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Usability issues with Calypso

by Tim Mackinnon

Ah - you are right that rename is in there (Iâd never noticed it was in the suggestions menu - which I find a confusingly named sub-menu ) - but I am missing the more appropriately named âSource Code Refactoringâ menu, which it also appears along with extract method etc. This menu is not in Calypso right? Tim > On 3 Sep 2017, at 17:24, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Tim. > > No. It is available by cmd+r and from suggestions menu like in Nautilus. But maybe I do not know other place which you use for this > > 2017-09-03 17:03 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works <mailto:tim@testit.works>>: > Hi Denis - I just noticed that the source refactoring menu is missing in Calypso as well? (So you canât rename a temp for example). > > Tim > >> On 2 Sep 2017, at 10:30, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com <mailto:dionisiydk@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> 2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <voxkmp(a)gmail.com <mailto:voxkmp@gmail.com>>: >> I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods) >> as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but >> some things I find off-putting. >> >> Any feedback is very important. >> >> >> I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab >> that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way >> of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the >> way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in >> a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if >> the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and >> disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this. >> >> In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers. >> So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request. >> Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class. >> >> >> Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss >> the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass >> of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way? >> >> You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it. >> >> >> On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you >> create one? >> >> Now it is more like a stub. >> There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet. >> I think we should also implement Metacello backend. >> Anyway project mode will become default view in future. >> >> >> And what does realize do? >> >> It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses). >> I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods. >> >> >> Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories >> rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of >> options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu >> options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and >> /move to class side/ et cetera. >> >> Yes, I will add it. >> >> You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues. <https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues.> >> Thank's for you feedback. >> >> >> >> Just my two cents. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html> >> >> > >

Sept. 3, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Bitbucket CI

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

I am familiar neither with BuildCI nor pharo-build, nor was I aware that they would be popular/used/ready-to-use as SmalltalkCI On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 5:03 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote > > SmalltalkCI... you should be able to run it on any linux box > > Thanks. I got it working locally fairly easily. During my investigation, I > noticed that SmalltalkCI seems to be based on BuildCI, which is in turn > built on pharo-builder. I can't help but wonder why so many frameworks - > are > these for distinct use cases, or more like different flavors? > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > >

Sept. 3, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Usability issues with Calypso

by Denis Kudriashov

Hi Tim. No. It is available by cmd+r and from suggestions menu like in Nautilus. But maybe I do not know other place which you use for this 2017-09-03 17:03 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works>: > Hi Denis - I just noticed that the source refactoring menu is missing in > Calypso as well? (So you canât rename a temp for example). > > Tim > > On 2 Sep 2017, at 10:30, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi > > 2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <voxkmp(a)gmail.com>: > >> I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited >> methods) >> as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me >> but >> some things I find off-putting. >> > > Any feedback is very important. > > >> >> I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab >> that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way >> of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the >> way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done >> in >> a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better >> if >> the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and >> disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this. >> > > In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. > It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers. > So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command > should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request. > Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from > the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of > selected class. > > >> >> Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss >> the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a >> subclass >> of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way? >> > > You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it. > > >> >> On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you >> create one? >> > > Now it is more like a stub. > There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is > working on it). But it is probably not ready yet. > I think we should also implement Metacello backend. > Anyway project mode will become default view in future. > > >> And what does realize do? >> > > It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses). > I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is > "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods. > > >> >> Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories >> rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of >> options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu >> options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and >> /move to class side/ et cetera. >> > > Yes, I will add it. > > You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/ > dionisiydk/Calypso/issues. > Thank's for you feedback. > > > >> >> Just my two cents. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> >> > >

Sept. 3, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Usability issues with Calypso

by Tim Mackinnon

Hi Denis - I just noticed that the source refactoring menu is missing in Calypso as well? (So you canât rename a temp for example). Tim > On 2 Sep 2017, at 10:30, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi > > 2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <voxkmp(a)gmail.com <mailto:voxkmp@gmail.com>>: > I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods) > as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but > some things I find off-putting. > > Any feedback is very important. > > > I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab > that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way > of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the > way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in > a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if > the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and > disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this. > > In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers. > So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request. > Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class. > > > Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss > the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass > of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way? > > You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it. > > > On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you > create one? > > Now it is more like a stub. > There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet. > I think we should also implement Metacello backend. > Anyway project mode will become default view in future. > > > And what does realize do? > > It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses). > I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods. > > > Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories > rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of > options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu > options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and > /move to class side/ et cetera. > > Yes, I will add it. > > You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues. <https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues.> > Thank's for you feedback. > > > > Just my two cents. > > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html> > >

Sept. 3, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Bitbucket CI

by Sean P. DeNigris

Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote > SmalltalkCI... you should be able to run it on any linux box Thanks. I got it working locally fairly easily. During my investigation, I noticed that SmalltalkCI seems to be based on BuildCI, which is in turn built on pharo-builder. I can't help but wonder why so many frameworks - are these for distinct use cases, or more like different flavors? ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Sept. 3, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] The mooc is looking for forum moderators

by Rene Paul Mages (ramix)

Le 01/09/2017 Ã 11:40, Serge Stinckwich a Ã©crit : > I should be able to help like last year. Count me also in the forum moderators team. -- Amicalement. Rene Paul Mages ( GnuPG_key 1024D/2CC455D9 ) http://blog.pharo.fr

Sept. 2, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Small background picture extension for DesktopManager

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi torsten sweet :) Once we will have bloc and brick I would really like to see if we can pay a graphical guy to design a beautiful UI look. Now the background is a step in the direction that it is important to make Pharo looks cool. Stef On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 3:09 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > Torsten Bergmann wrote >> In latest DesktopManagerâ¦ > > Sounds interesting! How does your project compare to TilingWindowManager? > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

Sept. 2, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Small background picture extension for DesktopManager

by Sean P. DeNigris

Torsten Bergmann wrote > In latest DesktopManagerâ¦ Sounds interesting! How does your project compare to TilingWindowManager? ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Sept. 2, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 Generating Ruby-on-Rails Applications

by H. Hirzel

Hello Brad In this context it is probably useful to (re-)read the thesis by Lukas Rengli http://scg.unibe.ch/archive/masters/Reng06a.pdf <citation page=3> As a complete example of how we applied a meta-model to a Web application we present Pier, the second version of a fully object-oriented implementation of a content management system and Wiki engine. .... We describe the lessons learned from using the Magritte meta-model to build applications. </citation> It contains a lot of good insights - see 'Lessons learned'. The writing style might be terse and abstract but there is also a Pharo book about Magritte. In a pristine Pharo image, as soon as you start writing your own class definitions to model your domain you are actually creating a Domain Specific Language (DSL). This language describes your application domain. If we talk about web applications, you describe in an abstract way the domain objects and GUI elements. The challenge is that this DSL language is easy to write, understand, teach and maintain. >From the model (part of it most often is a tree of objects) you have visitor walking through the object net and creating reports. It is easy to quickly come up with something which works but often it is idiosyncratic, thus difficult to understand for other people. Maybe Peter can share some insights about his experience writing a model to then generate a Ruby-on-Rails-app. Pillar is another example of such an approach. You create a document object model and then have various exporter objects to generate slides, web pages and very nice books. It is accessible code and you can learn from it. The emphasis is on static content but some dynamic content seems to be possible as well. Regards Hannes On 9/2/17, Brad Selfridge <bsselfridge(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Peter, > > Really good work. I'm impressed. Pharo is really gaining some cutting edge > options. I would like to know a lot more about your framework. Thanks for > the effort. > > > > ----- > Brad Selfridge > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > >

Sept. 2, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] How to create a minimal image ?

by Tudor Girba

+1. Also, there can be different UIs that one might want to choose from (for example, Bloc and Morphic) without having both loaded at the same time. Cheers, Doru > On Aug 31, 2017, at 8:20 PM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > We are talking about **Pharo Core** and we will reduce it even more. > Then you can load the UI. > And no UI is not the very essence of Smalltalk. > You can connect remotely to a live kernel and program it and this is > still a live system. > > On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Dimitris Chloupis > <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> for me Pharo and GUI go hand in hand, I cannot imagine Pharo without GUI. I >> also despise the command line. Plus once you remove the GUI you kill the >> very essence of Smalltalk. >> >> But if that is what you(you as all people who support this) like and need, >> that's your choice and I respect that. >> >> Even back in the 80s when almost everything was command lines , I was >> drooling over Amiga's 500 beautiful coloured GUIs. It started my fascination >> with computer graphics and later 3d graphics and sound. >> >> So me and the GUI are very old friends and we go hand in hand :) >> >> Of course I understand if we want to go super minimal the GUI has to go >> together with many other things that make Pharo what it is. But I dont care >> for such extremes. I just wanted to reduce the fat. >> >> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 2:24 PM Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> What do you expect from such minimal image? Because we can produce several >>> intermediate steps on the way to the standard full Pharo image >>> (BaselineOfMorphicCore, BaselineOfMorphic, BaselineOfUI, >>> BaselineOfBasicTools...) >>> >>> -- Pavel >>> >>> 2017-08-28 13:17 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: >>>> >>>> oh , then its not what I am thinking as minimal image. Pity, oh well , I >>>> will wait for bootstrap to mature then :) >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 2:09 PM Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The minimal image is headless image without any GUI. It is useless to >>>>> try to open it this way. >>>>> >>>>> -- Pavel >>>>> >>>>> 2017-08-28 13:03 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: >>>>>> >>>>>> hmm does not work for me, it open the icon of pharo on macos sierra >>>>>> dock and it stays there doing nothing >>>>>> right clicking on it and choosing quit does nothing, so I am have to >>>>>> use force quit to make it close >>>>>> >>>>>> I have downloaded pharo 6.1 from the website, default download, 32 bit, >>>>>> minimal 32 bit image. I drag and drop image on top of pharo. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 10:29 AM Pavel Krivanek >>>>>> <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2017-08-26 19:31 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I remember that the website used to link to a minimal image download >>>>>>>> but it does not seem there is one anymore >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is still minimal image maintained ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> yes, as part of the bootstrap process >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are there ways to make a image minimal ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> it is created in bootstrap/scripts/build.sh under name >>>>>>> Pharo7.0-metacello-* and saved on files.pharo.org as >>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/image/70/latest-minimal-32.zip or >>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/image/70/latest-minimal-64.zip >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So you do not need to do it by yourself. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Pavel >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar."

Sept. 2, 2017