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Re: [Esug-list] [PDFtalk] Porting to non-namespace Smalltalks

by Richard Sargent

GemTalk Systems published a tool called SETT which is designed to extract sources from Store into a git repository. I think it's filetree, not to El format, but getting it (and its history) out of Store is the primary motivation. It requires direct access to the Store database, as far as I understand. Look at the GemTalk area on GitHub for the project and details. (I'm on vacation, using my phone and memory, so pardon the scarcity of detail.) On Sun, Mar 27, 2022, 13:17 stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > BTW about porting from VW, you see a friend of mine wanted to see how to > help porting Siren to Pharo. > Now this is not possible because he could not get a personal VW license. > > So even if people want to help pointing to a store database is equivalent > to /dev/null for most people. > For example I cannot (and also does not for legal reason) run VW on my > machine. > Not talking about the new M1 I will get. > > S > > On 27 Mar 2022, at 22:12, seasidebook <seasidebook(a)free.fr> wrote: > > Hi christian > > I took the squeakValues60 becau se I thought that this is what you wanted > that we do. > I should continue but Iâm busy > > > ahhh I did not know that you already did it. > Do you need help to package your changes? > Because you can fork my repo and load your changes. > > I got lost with the explanation of OrderedDictionary below because Iâm > dead :) - worked too mcuh today. > But what we can do is to package the one that is working for you under > http://github.com/pharo-container > and update the baseline to load it. > Alternatively we could see what is wrong in the pharoâs one. > > Now my brain decided to shut down :) so I need to sleep. > > S > > Hi Stef, > > Great! Thank you for your work. > Good example for the tonel format. > > Which sources were you using? > How did you generate this? > Do you use VW to create the output? > > > For the last ESUG (2.5 years ago â sigh), I already did the transformation > for Values for Pharo. Thanks to you, I revised them and published the > result on GitHub (https://github.com/PortingPDFtalk/PharoValues) and > added a Pharo porting page to the wiki ( > https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=pharoport) Please have a look. > > The fileouts are for Pharo versions 6.1, 7.0, 8.0 and 9.0 (7.0 to 9.0 have > identical sources). The sources load without errors or warnings and all 27 > tests pass. > > > Some of the problems in your code have to do with OrderedDictionary as > superclass of Valuemap. When I did my first round on the port, I had a > class OrderedDictionary in my Values implementation. Unfortunately, > OrderedDictionary does not work as I expected. > > (OrderedDictionary with: #a -> 1 with: #b -> 2) = > (OrderedDictionary with: #b -> 2 with: #a -> 1) > > answers true, although the order is different. Therefore, it cannot be > used as value. > > Instead of raising this issue on a Pharo list (sorry), I decided to use a > new name: Valuemap. > A Valuemap is an OrderedDictionary where the order is relevant for > comparisons. > Squeak had the same problem where it was considered a bug and fixed. > While I subclass Dictionary for Valuemap in Pharo, I can use > OrderedDictionary in Squeak. This removes a lot of methods from the fileout. > > > A remark about the renamings you propose in your commit comment. > Thank you for the suggestions, but I decline for two reasons: > > 1. Names for classes, methods and variables are very important to me. > Naming is part of the creative expression of the code author. I do think > much about the right names and therefore, I claim the liberty and right to > name things according to my feeling. > > > Yes now you may want to read an excellent book that just came out: > http://books.pharo.org Pharo with Styles. > If you want to have future contributors this is good to follow good > practices > Else Iâm quite sure that you would not like a French Pharo :) > > > 1. Maybe my names are a bit influenced by German, where we tend to > have longer names. Therefore, my names are not so heavily camel-cased J. > In contrast, Pharo has quite a different style with a love for camel-casing > J (#timeStamp, #nanoSeconds etc.). > 2. From a practical view, it would be a lot of work to rename all > references to the items in this basic systems library. There is a lot of > code out there using it. Of course, if there is a good reason for a > renaming (like a spelling mistake or misleading name), it should be done > and I am appreciating any suggestions. > > > A pattern that we use is the following. > You introduce a new name and let the old one as an empty subclass. Like > that you can migrate and still be backward compatible. > > For the method level refactoring we have a gorgeous mechanism that > automatically rewrite client codeâ¦. > > http://www.jot.fm/issues/issue_2022_01/article1.pdf > > S > > >

March 27, 2022

Re: [Esug-list] [PDFtalk] Porting to non-namespace Smalltalks

by stephane ducasse

BTW about porting from VW, you see a friend of mine wanted to see how to help porting Siren to Pharo. Now this is not possible because he could not get a personal VW license. So even if people want to help pointing to a store database is equivalent to /dev/null for most people. For example I cannot (and also does not for legal reason) run VW on my machine. Not talking about the new M1 I will get. S > On 27 Mar 2022, at 22:12, seasidebook <seasidebook(a)free.fr> wrote: > > Hi christian > > I took the squeakValues60 becau se I thought that this is what you wanted that we do. > I should continue but Iâm busy > > > ahhh I did not know that you already did it. > Do you need help to package your changes? > Because you can fork my repo and load your changes. > > I got lost with the explanation of OrderedDictionary below because Iâm dead :) - worked too mcuh today. > But what we can do is to package the one that is working for you under http://github.com/pharo-container <http://github.com/pharo-container> > and update the baseline to load it. > Alternatively we could see what is wrong in the pharoâs one. > > Now my brain decided to shut down :) so I need to sleep. > > S > >> Hi Stef, >> >> Great! Thank you for your work. >> Good example for the tonel format. >> >> Which sources were you using? >> How did you generate this? >> Do you use VW to create the output? >> >> >> For the last ESUG (2.5 years ago â sigh), I already did the transformation for Values for Pharo. Thanks to you, I revised them and published the result on GitHub (https://github.com/PortingPDFtalk/PharoValues <https://github.com/PortingPDFtalk/PharoValues>) and added a Pharo porting page to the wiki (https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=pharoport <https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=pharoport>). Please have a look. >> >> The fileouts are for Pharo versions 6.1, 7.0, 8.0 and 9.0 (7.0 to 9.0 have identical sources). The sources load without errors or warnings and all 27 tests pass. >> >> >> Some of the problems in your code have to do with OrderedDictionary as superclass of Valuemap. When I did my first round on the port, I had a class OrderedDictionary in my Values implementation. Unfortunately, OrderedDictionary does not work as I expected. >> >> (OrderedDictionary with: #a -> 1 with: #b -> 2) = (OrderedDictionary with: #b -> 2 with: #a -> 1) >> >> answers true, although the order is different. Therefore, it cannot be used as value. >> >> Instead of raising this issue on a Pharo list (sorry), I decided to use a new name: Valuemap. >> A Valuemap is an OrderedDictionary where the order is relevant for comparisons. >> Squeak had the same problem where it was considered a bug and fixed. >> While I subclass Dictionary for Valuemap in Pharo, I can use OrderedDictionary in Squeak. This removes a lot of methods from the fileout. >> >> >> A remark about the renamings you propose in your commit comment. >> Thank you for the suggestions, but I decline for two reasons: >> Names for classes, methods and variables are very important to me. Naming is part of the creative expression of the code author. I do think much about the right names and therefore, I claim the liberty and right to name things according to my feeling. > > Yes now you may want to read an excellent book that just came out: http://books.pharo.org <http://books.pharo.org/> Pharo with Styles. > If you want to have future contributors this is good to follow good practices > Else Iâm quite sure that you would not like a French Pharo :) > >> Maybe my names are a bit influenced by German, where we tend to have longer names. Therefore, my names are not so heavily camel-cased J. In contrast, Pharo has quite a different style with a love for camel-casing J (#timeStamp, #nanoSeconds etc.). >> From a practical view, it would be a lot of work to rename all references to the items in this basic systems library. There is a lot of code out there using it. Of course, if there is a good reason for a renaming (like a spelling mistake or misleading name), it should be done and I am appreciating any suggestions. > > A pattern that we use is the following. > You introduce a new name and let the old one as an empty subclass. Like that you can migrate and still be backward compatible. > > For the method level refactoring we have a gorgeous mechanism that automatically rewrite client codeâ¦. > > http://www.jot.fm/issues/issue_2022_01/article1.pdf <http://www.jot.fm/issues/issue_2022_01/article1.pdf> > > S

March 27, 2022

Re: [Esug-list] [PDFtalk] Porting to non-namespace Smalltalks

by christian.haider＠smalltalked-visuals.com

Hi Stef, Great! Thank you for your work. Good example for the tonel format. Which sources were you using? How did you generate this? Do you use VW to create the output? For the last ESUG (2.5 years ago Â sigh), I already did the transformation for Values for Pharo. Thanks to you, I revised them and published the result on GitHub (https://github.com/PortingPDFtalk/PharoValues) and added a Pharo porting page to the wiki (https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=pharoport) Please have a look. The fileouts are for Pharo versions 6.1, 7.0, 8.0 and 9.0 (7.0 to 9.0 have identical sources). The sources load without errors or warnings and all 27 tests pass. Some of the problems in your code have to do with OrderedDictionary as superclass of Valuemap. When I did my first round on the port, I had a class OrderedDictionary in my Values implementation. Unfortunately, OrderedDictionary does not work as I expected. (OrderedDictionary with: #a -> 1 with: #b -> 2) = (OrderedDictionary with: #b -> 2 with: #a -> 1) answers true, although the order is different. Therefore, it cannot be used as value. Instead of raising this issue on a Pharo list (sorry), I decided to use a new name: Valuemap. A Valuemap is an OrderedDictionary where the order is relevant for comparisons. Squeak had the same problem where it was considered a bug and fixed. While I subclass Dictionary for Valuemap in Pharo, I can use OrderedDictionary in Squeak. This removes a lot of methods from the fileout. A remark about the renamings you propose in your commit comment. Thank you for the suggestions, but I decline for two reasons: 1. Names for classes, methods and variables are very important to me. Naming is part of the creative expression of the code author. I do think much about the right names and therefore, I claim the liberty and right to name things according to my feeling. Maybe my names are a bit influenced by German, where we tend to have longer names. Therefore, my names are not so heavily camel-cased :). In contrast, Pharo has quite a different style with a love for camel-casing :) (#timeStamp, #nanoSeconds etc.). 2. From a practical view, it would be a lot of work to rename all references to the items in this basic systems library. There is a lot of code out there using it. Of course, if there is a good reason for a renaming (like a spelling mistake or misleading name), it should be done and I am appreciating any suggestions. Happy hacking, Christian Von: seasidebook <seasidebook(a)free.fr> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. MÃ¤rz 2022 21:04 An: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org>; Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> Cc: christian.haider(a)smalltalked-visuals.com Betreff: Re: [Esug-list] [PDFtalk] Porting to non-namespace Smalltalks Hi guys I started to port Values to Pharo. If you want to give an hand my current effort is here. <https://github.com/Ducasse/PharoValues> https://github.com/Ducasse/PharoValues should migrate license and other stuff too. S On 1 Mar 2022, at 19:08, <mailto:christian.haider@smalltalked-visuals.com> christian.haider(a)smalltalked-visuals.com wrote: Hi all, PDFtalk is a PDF library for VisualWorks[1]. The library has been ported successfully to Gemstone[2]. Now, there is interest from companies in a port to Squeak and VA Smalltalk. The project[3] has started and we are making good progress. The first step: porting the Values package. This is easy, because there are no namespace issues. The next step is to implement class renamings so that namespaced classes can be renamed to global prefixed names. Then PDFtalk with all its components, except for the UI, can be ported. The porting approach is different to the traditional way of loading and fixing. The import files for other Smalltalks are generated from VisualWorks where the code is transformed by declarative rules. The approach is documented in [4]. I set up a GitHub organization for this project[5]. There, the fileouts for each dialect are published (Gemstone, Squeak and VA Smalltalk so far), so that people without VisualWorks can work with the code in their Smalltalk. Also, I record and explain all steps of the porting process for Squeak in great detail[6], so that people can follow it. I would like to invite Smalltalkers from all dialects to take part in this project. The code transformations for Squeak will be quite similar to the ones needed for Pharo and Cuis. Therefore, each port to one Smalltalk will help the port to other Smalltalks. Any takers? Happy hacking, Christian [1] <https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=start> https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=start [2] <https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=pdftalk4gemstone> https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=pdftalk4gemstone [3] <https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=pdftalknonnamespacefileout> https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=pdftalknonnamespacefileout [4] <https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransform> https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransform [5] <https://github.com/PortingPDFtalk> https://github.com/PortingPDFtalk [6] <https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=valuesportinglog> https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=valuesportinglog _______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list -- <mailto:esug-list@lists.esug.org> esug-list(a)lists.esug.org To unsubscribe send an email to <mailto:esug-list-leave@lists.esug.org> esug-list-leave(a)lists.esug.org

March 27, 2022

How can I use Pharo as an app development space (+ question about jobs)?

by lucasrodriguesoficial5＠gmail.com

I'm starting my career as a systems designer and analyst, and for my first project I've decided to make an app/executable in Smalltalk with the bold goal of vanquishing bureaucracy in any public-person interactions which need paper documentation to go through, such as immigration, social programs, housing, or even legal matters. The idea is to find someone to implement it on a national scale somewhere, then spread to the world; or at least land myself a job overseas with the idea as a portfolio. Any kind of job would do, though a outsourcing/freelancing one would be the best. Problem is, Pharo doesn't have an effective framework for deployable desktop/phone applications, from what the users of its dedicated Discord server said. What toolkit, tutorial or assisting language (could I use to make standalone protoypes for enterprises? I already have the class behavior of the project done, the UI interaction is whatâs lacking. If there really isnât any, should I really start again with a brand new programming language and only use Pharo as a reference? What also concerns me not only in Pharo but in programming in general is how nothing ever seems to be enough to work for an enterprise, more so as an immigrant. My fear is that, even after the project is finished, I wonât be able to meet the requirements of anyone interested in hiring (my qualifications are a degree in Game Design and few months of an internship experience). People always say that the important thing is to solve problems regardless of whether you know one or many programming languages, but how can that be true when supposedly the most powerful OO language canât deploy a product? How are things everâ¦ done in the industry? What knowledge is a staple to anyone willing to work on Systems Design and Analysis field?

March 26, 2022

UK Smalltalk User Group Meeting - Wednesday, March 30th

by Giovanni Corriga

The next meeting of the UK Smalltalk User Group will be held on Wednesday, March 30th 2022. Come to hear news about Glamorous Toolkit, the moldable development environment. We were busy over the past year: beside everything else, GT also became a multi-language notebook + programmable knowledge management platform. By this we unify the flows of programming, data science and knowledge management. And there might be a couple of other surprises, too. Tudor GÃ®rba is a software environmentalist and CEO of feenk.com where he works with an amazing team to make the inside of systems explainable. Much of the work is embodied in Glamorous Toolkit (gtoolkit.com) a novel environment that enables Moldable Development. This will be an online meeting from home. If you'd like to join us, please sign up in advance on the meeting's Meetup page to receive the meeting details. Donât forget to bring your laptop and drinks!

March 22, 2022

Re: Null Object Pattern

by Esteban Maringolo

Being able to proxy to another object is such an important feature, that even in ES6 (aka "Javascript") there is a Proxy object [1] that allows you to intercept/redefine operations for that object. In the case of Smalltalk, and coming back to the original topic of this thread, that is even more powerful because you have first class messages that can be resolved via DNU handling. If anything, I would like to give the receiver of a message more control of the handling of such a message rather than having a DNU as the last resort, or worse, some messages that are written to be sent, but then are inlined during execution. Regards, [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Ob… Esteban A. Maringolo On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 5:47 PM Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: > > This has been an interesting thread to read on the side, and I appreciate the thought provoking conversion. > > On Sun, 20 Mar 2022, at 6:11 AM, Richard O'Keefe wrote: > > An override of #doesNotUnderstand: *is* (an instance of) the problem. > What part of "you may think you know what to forward now, but just > wait a couple of months or install an additional package and there > will be *more* selectors you needed to think about but didn't" is > hard to understand? > > > However I am confused by the above - as in Pharo and Dolphin (and I suspect other Smalltalks) - you don't have to make your proxy a subclass of Object right? If you want to forward as much behaviour as possible - you can subclass ProtoObject (or equivalent). The width of methods on that is much reduced (59 from a quick glance), and loading other packages doesn't tend to extend at that level, so keeping things much more stable. The downside, is that such objects are tricky to view in an inspector etc. There is a mocking framework in Pharo called Ghost that leverages this quite well from memory. > > So I think that some of the side arguments on downsides might not be quite as bad as indicated. > > Tim > >

March 21, 2022

Re: Null Object Pattern

by Tim Mackinnon

This has been an interesting thread to read on the side, and I appreciate the thought provoking conversion. On Sun, 20 Mar 2022, at 6:11 AM, Richard O'Keefe wrote: > An override of #doesNotUnderstand: *is* (an instance of) the problem. > What part of "you may think you know what to forward now, but just > wait a couple of months or install an additional package and there > will be *more* selectors you needed to think about but didn't" is > hard to understand? However I am confused by the above - as in Pharo and Dolphin (and I suspect other Smalltalks) - you don't have to make your proxy a subclass of Object right? If you want to forward as much behaviour as possible - you can subclass ProtoObject (or equivalent). The width of methods on that is much reduced (59 from a quick glance), and loading other packages doesn't tend to extend at that level, so keeping things much more stable. The downside, is that such objects are tricky to view in an inspector etc. There is a mocking framework in Pharo called Ghost that leverages this quite well from memory. So I think that some of the side arguments on downsides might not be quite as bad as indicated. Tim

March 21, 2022

Re: Null Object Pattern

by James Foster

Richard, My primary reference for the Proxy Pattern is the classic "Design Patterns, Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software" by Gamma, Helm, Johnson, and Vlissides (Addison-Wesley 1995). In describing how to implement the pattern the âGang of Four (or GOF)" advise âusing doesNotUnderstand in Smalltalkâ (p. 212). Furthermore, as to typing, they say that âProxy doesnât always have to know the type of real subjectâ (213). The GOF anticipated the problem with inlined selectors and caution that âa few special messages ... are handled directly by the virtual machine [and] do not cause the usual method look-upâ (p. 212). So, I think it is reasonable, in the context of a discussion of the Proxy Pattern, to suggest that the Proxy Pattern would be more effective with fewer inlined selectors. As to where the Proxy Pattern was developed, the GOF describe âKnown Usesâ including remote objects in NEXTSTEP (1994) and in Smalltalk (1987). In the remote object context, a Proxy has no need to know the type of the target, it just needs to know how to forward messages and return results. While there is typically a way to find out if something is a proxy or not (e.g., #â_isProxyâ) the beauty of the Proxy Pattern is that you donât have to rewrite the entire application and use something like #âapparentClassâ or #âapparentlyNilâ. Only the parts of the application that care if you have a proxy (which will typically not be the main domain code) need to look more deeply (with special selectors or reflection). It appears that you believe that a untyped proxy to a remote object is bad and that all the code in an application should be written to be aware of the possible âremotenessâ of certain objects. It is my understanding that a transparent untyped proxy to a remote object is well-accepted, extremely useful, and can be implemented reliably. I donât think I can contribute much more to the conversation than that so Iâll leave it there. Regards, James > On Mar 20, 2022, at 4:55 PM, Richard O'Keefe <raoknz(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Never forget that the Proxy pattern was developed in the context of a TYPED programming > language. So "Clients can't tell whether they work with a subject or its proxyâ means WITH REFERENCE > TO A STATED PROTOCOL. Doing this in Ada or Java is fine, because you define an interface type, and that > makes it safe. Here is a sentence from a typical description of the pattern: "Since the proxy implements the > INTERFACE as the original class, it can be passed to any client that expects a real service object." Having > a specified and *enforced* smallish interface prevents the maintenance issues that plague attempts to use > this pattern in Smalltalk. > > Remote objects and local objects have different semantics because remote messages and local messages > have different semantics. Local messages cannot be lost, duplicated, or reordered, nor can communication > with a local object drop out for no local reason. Version skew is a much bigger problem with distributed > systems than local ones, so once again, it is proxying WITH REFERENCE TO A STATED PROTOCOL (and > that not a large one!) that counts. There is no such thing as a 100% transparent remote proxy. So it is > very useful to know what an object really is as well as what it pretends to be. That is, > #class #apparentClass > #isNil #apparentlyNil > are *different*, > > So the argument thus far is > - a selector should not be inlined if it might need to be overridden > - such as in an application of the Proxy pattern > - but well-designed Proxies are such WITH REFERENCE TO STATED PROTOCOLS > - meaning that selectors that are NOT in such protocols are fair game for inlining. >

March 21, 2022

Positions at lifeware :)

by stephane ducasse

March 21, 2022

Re: Another question about Spec2 and SpTablePresenter

by Mark O'Donoghue

Hi Esteban Many thanks for your help on this. A. I managed to get it working with a small change â which looks like it was due to issue 1263 as you indicated And this technique was successful my main application too. Next, I will load the latest merge for Spec2 and do it properly. âTest class>>esteban <example> | items | items := { #one -> 'one'. #two -> 'two' }. table := SpTablePresenter new addColumn: (SpStringTableColumn title: 'Key' evaluated: #key); addColumn: (SpStringTableColumn new title: 'Value'; evaluated: #value; beEditable; onAcceptEdition: [ :item :newValue | item value: (newValue getText string) ]; yourself). table items: items. table openWithSpec .â B. Do you think there is any merit in using a notifications design approach in this example? (e.g. using âmodel changedâ)? (That was my first instinctâ¦but I couldnât see how to do it.) If you think that makes sense, does Spec2 have the hooks required to do it this way? C. My comment on documentation was a good hearted grumble - and is not about the source code... I think the community urgently needs guides like the âAn Introduction to user interface building with Spec 2.0â â this one is still WIP after many months. The trial and error learning curve for all the part timers like me is very inefficient and frustrating. I understand manpower and time are seriously limiting factors, but more good learning resources would really help wider adoption of Pharo IMHO. Thatâs just useful feedback I hopeâ¦ ð Again, many thanks for your help. Cheers Mark, Perth WA From: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)netc.eu> Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2022 10:15 PM To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Cc: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org Subject: [Pharo-users] Re: Another question about Spec2 and SpTablePresenter Hi, well, the incomplete documentation of Spec states clearly that you will be receiving two parameters: onAcceptEdition: aBlock "Set the block to execute when cell edition is accepted. `aBlock` receives two arguments: - the element of the table (See `SpAbstractListPresenter>>#items:` - the string entered while editing" acceptAction := aBlock So, when you set beEditable to your column, you can do something like this: items := { #one -> 'one'. #two -> 'two' }. table := SpTablePresenter new addColumn: (SpStringTableColumn title: 'Key' evaluated: #key); addColumn: (SpStringTableColumn new title: 'Value'; evaluated: #value; beEditable; onAcceptEdition: [ :item :newValue | item value: newValue ]; yourself); items: items; open. and then you can edit whatever you want and update your item. Now, since this is a mechanism that has not been used a lot yet in morphic backend, I just discovered and fixed a bug (not in editable tables, but that affects it: https://github.com/pharo-spec/Spec/issues/1263) so if you want to actually use the functionality, you will need to wait until is merged (tomorrow). Esteban On Mar 20 2022, at 10:26 am, Mark O'Donoghue <mark.odonoghue.2010(a)gmail.com <mailto:mark.odonoghue.2010@gmail.com> > wrote: Howdy all I am making progress with quite a large application which relies heavily on Spec2 ( but Spec2 is such a big learning curve for me â especially given the incomplete documentationâ¦ ð) I am currently struggling with the following issue: I have a SpTablePresenter which shows a collection of domain objects (subclassed from Model). The domain object are instances of âAssetâ which is a relatively simple class. The table works fine. Now, I need to be able to update some columns , but I donât think I want to build a separate form for doing classic CRUD operations. (There is no need for create or delete functionality â so an in-situ update seems desirableâ¦). Iâve made a start using SpStringTableColumn >> beEditable and #onAcceptEdition: But I canât see how to work out what row and column has changed, and how I can update the corresponding Asset instance(s). It thought it would be handled using #whenModelChanged: but there are models in many places (and at several levels in the Spec hierarchy)â¦ Iâve tried following it all the way down to the adapters and morphs but I canât see how the freshly edited cell interacts with the model or announcements. (BTW - It doesnât look like the âselected itemâ features are appropriate since you can do edits in other rows regardless of what row is/isnât selected.) Is there a correct and/or elegant way to detect these cell changes in a SpTablePresenter and apply them to my domain objectsâ¦? Cheers Mark From: Mark O'Donoghue <mark.odonoghue.2010(a)gmail.com <mailto:mark.odonoghue.2010@gmail.com> > Sent: Sunday, 4 July 2021 5:26 PM To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> Subject: Question about Spec2 and SpTablePresenter Howdy all Iâve got stuck trying to manage Tables â over 12 hours now and Iâm out of ideas!. â¹ Any observations / suggestions are most welcomeâ¦ Iâve been loading small external files of transactions using NeoCSV into Spec2 tables. I am trying to use Fuel to persist the table contents so that my application will re-load the working state from where I finished in the last session. (Iâve opted for Fuel as a simple alternative to having to do the whole object relational mapping thing.) The idea is that transactions (and potentially some manual adjustments) will be processed over time. (This is preferable to having to reload all files from the beginning evert time I run the applicationâ¦) The Spec2 tables have been working well until I tried to persist them. I canât seem to fully re-load them to a previously saved state. For example - I can restore the essential contents of my table in most circumstances using: restoreObjects âfilePresenter1 is a SpTablePresenterâ | objects savedEntry | objects := CpPersist restoreObjectsFromFileNamed: 'E:\Me\zzzST-Test\demo.fuel'. recentFileList := objects at: 1. currFileFilter := objects at: 2. savedEntry := objects at: 3. self updateFilterButton: currFileFilter. filteredFileList := self filterFilesUsing: currFileFilter. filePresenter1 items: filteredFileList. savedEntry ifNotNil: [filePresenter1 selectItem: savedEntry ]. However, if any of the table columns are re-sorted , the re-load operation gets confused and I canât get the saved a saved selected item to become selected again. (It seems to be confusing the index numbers of the sorted and unsorted lists â even when I match by contents rather than index.) (I also created an equality test to ensure equivalent entries are recognised by the #= operation in the list of the underlying model ). This all works fine - unless I sort a column! Since this approach was going to be used on several screens Iâd really like to find a solution. Cheers Mark Perth, Western Australia

March 21, 2022