- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by st＠bestley.co.uk

horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Interestingly, I'm getting a fair amount of pushback on this. Personally, I > think it would be very helpful to have a live (updatable, so as to keep it > current) reference page for the class library, something that developers can > easily look up what they need. After all, most of the power of Pharo comes > from the class library and we need to make it as accessible as possible to > less experienced Pharoers (i.e., beginners). > > Exploring the class library through the System Browser is very inefficient. > This is further exacerbated by the fact that many classes and methods are > simply not well-documented (containing a cursory remark which is just barely > useful). > > I realize that creating a live reference page is not easy to do. In fact, > it's a lot of work. But the absence of such a page is a real obstacle to > Pharo acceptance. > I have a simple example compoared with python. I want to programatically find the version number of current instance. In Python I go to the document page e.g. <https://docs.python.org/3/> and search for version. I get a pageful of hits which I can read and find the snswer (ie sys.version) For Pharo what search do I do? You don't need to implement a seach engine Google, Bing etc can do this and with a lot more resopuirces than Pharo can do, but you need the information in a restricted place e.g. one site. and it does not need to be dynamic The first thing I do for a new technology is RTFM. > > > horrido wrote > > Thanks. I gave your answer verbatim. I also added the following paragraph: > > > > The problem I find with today's developers is that they are rather > > closed-minded. They are rigid and inflexible, and not willing to adapt to > > new and different ways of doing things. In my generation (circa > > 1980â1990), > > people didn't have a problem with trying different technologies. That's > > why > > I had no issue with learning Smalltalk 10 years ago, after I had retired > > from a 20-year-long career in C systems programming and FORTRAN scientific > > programming. > > > > > > > > Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote > >>> On 6 Oct 2017, at 14:54, horrido < > > > >> horrido.hobbies@ > > > >> > wrote: > >>> > >>> I received this comment from someone who complained: > >>> > >>> *What about the lack of documentation? From time to time I've checked > >>> some > >>> SmallTalk implementations like Squeak, GNU-Smalltalk and now Pharo. Of > >>> these, only GNU-SmallTalk appears to have a free, official programming > >>> guide > >>> and core library reference that any serious programmer expects from a > >>> language. > >>> > >>> https://www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/manual-base/html_node/* > >>> > >>> I pointed to Pharo's documentation but then he came back with: > >>> > >>> *Then show me a link of the free, maintained reference documentation for > >>> the > >>> classes that form "the core library", like this one for Python > >>> (https://docs.python.org/3/library/index.html)* > >>> > >>> It's true, most Smalltalks do not have a core library reference, not > >>> even > >>> VisualWorks! So what is the proper response to this complaint? > >> > >> The first answer is that Pharo/Smalltalk is unique in that a running > >> system/IDE contains _all_ source code, _all_ documentation (class, > >> method, > >> help, tutorial), _all_ unit tests and _all_ runnable examples in a very > >> easy, accessible way. It takes some getting used to, but this is actually > >> better and much more powerful than any alternative. > >> > >> The second answer is that there are lots of books and articles that take > >> the classic/structured book/paper approach. There is > >> http://books.pharo.org, http://themoosebook.org, > >> http://book.seaside.st/book, http://medium.com/concerning-pharo and many > >> more. > >> > -- Mark

Oct. 11, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] TechTalk on Artificial Intelligence & Neural Networks

by Serge Stinckwich

I would like to advertise the TechTalk for colleagues of my lab. They can join Discord using the invitation link ? http://discord.gg/Sj2rhxn On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > > Dear All, > > A TechTalk on Artificial Intelligence is soon approaching. > The talk will be about implementing a neural networks in Pharo. > > It is scheduled on Tuesday 17Oct, 2017 (5:00 PM - 7:00 PM (UTC+02:00)) > > I need your input. Which example to you want me to use? > - Data manipulation, or > - Designing a small AI for a game > > Please answer: > https://twitter.com/alexbergel/status/918084438197784578 > > Some info about the event: > https://association.pharo.org/event-2642664 > https://www.facebook.com/events/133683180530368 > > Thanks Marcus Denker and the RMoD crew for their help in organizing it. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC/UY1) "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute." http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Oct. 11, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [TechTalk] 17th Oct: Artificial Intelligence

by Marcus Denker

It should use Youtube live Streaming again, so yes. (like the ones here: http://pharo.org/TechTalk <http://pharo.org/TechTalk>) > On 11 Oct 2017, at 14:19, jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de wrote: > > Will this TechTalk be recorded? I will most likely not have time at that time... > > Joachim > > > Am 11.10.17 um 09:47 schrieb Marcus Denker: >> Pharo TechTalk: Artificial Intelligence >> ââââââââââââââââââââââââ >> >> >> A regular chat about Pharo. Happens on Discord. >> Topic: Artificial Intelligence. >> >> This is an interactive mini lecture about AI by Alexandre Bergel. >> >> 17 Oct 2017 >> 5:00 PM - 7:00 PM (UTC+02:00) This is 17h Paris time. >> >> you can download a calendar entry here: >> >> https://association.pharo.org/event-2642664 >> > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de > Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de > D-71640 Ludwigsburg http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com > Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1 > >

Oct. 11, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Dimitris Chloupis

for me it is a yes and no situation, yes its very coold to have your entire system in your fingertips but Pharo has serious issues with code organisation and I find the lack of namespaces quite inconvenient. You have to be careful how to name your classes which does not sound to me very OOP friendly. Also the IDE does not handle spaggetification very well, sure you can find implementors , senders etc but if the execution chain is complex , welcome to spaggeti hell. But that is a problem with most other IDEs if not all as well. Problem is in this case that we have the very good rule of using sort methods which multiplies this problem and makes navigation even harder. Code becomes much easier to read per method and messages but much harder to understand in a bird eye view. Some of that pain has been aleviated with the introduction of GTSpotter which I have praised quite a lot and I will continue to do so. But yeah there are more needed to be done in the department to make Pharo code navigation a more comfortable task. On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 2:57 PM Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I dunno, maybe Iâm weird, but I find the System Browser a fantastic way to > explore the class library. If you find a class or method that isnât well > documented, write a comment and send a change request. Stef told me this > ages ago. I might add, if you find a bug you should write a test that > exercises the bug and submit it on fogbugz (the bug tracking system). > > > I will reference of response of mine to a similar opinion made by Richard: > https://medium.com/@vitormcruz/i-disagree-it-is-much-harder-to-find-anythin… > > My 2 cents. > > > > > On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 11:59 PM, john pfersich <jpfersich(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> > On Oct 10, 2017, at 09:58, horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > Interestingly, I'm getting a fair amount of pushback on this. >> Personally, I >> > think it would be very helpful to have a live (updatable, so as to keep >> it >> > current) reference page for the class library, something that >> developers can >> > easily look up what they need. After all, most of the power of Pharo >> comes >> > from the class library and we need to make it as accessible as possible >> to >> > less experienced Pharoers (i.e., beginners). >> > >> > Exploring the class library through the System Browser is very >> inefficient. >> > This is further exacerbated by the fact that many classes and methods >> are >> > simply not well-documented (containing a cursory remark which is just >> barely >> > useful). >> > >> I dunno, maybe Iâm weird, but I find the System Browser a fantastic way >> to explore the class library. If you find a class or method that isnât well >> documented, write a comment and send a change request. Stef told me this >> ages ago. I might add, if you find a bug you should write a test that >> exercises the bug and submit it on fogbugz (the bug tracking system). >> >> > I realize that creating a live reference page is not easy to do. In >> fact, >> > it's a lot of work. But the absence of such a page is a real obstacle to >> > Pharo acceptance. >> > >> > >> > >> > horrido wrote >> >> Thanks. I gave your answer verbatim. I also added the following >> paragraph: >> >> >> >> The problem I find with todayâs developers is that they are rather >> >> closed-minded. They are rigid and inflexible, and not willing to adapt >> to >> >> new and different ways of doing things. In my generation (circa >> >> 1980â1990), >> >> people didnât have a problem with trying different technologies. Thatâs >> >> why >> >> I had no issue with learning Smalltalk 10 years ago, after I had >> retired >> >> from a 20-year-long career in C systems programming and FORTRAN >> scientific >> >> programming. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote >> >>>> On 6 Oct 2017, at 14:54, horrido < >> >> >> >>> horrido.hobbies@ >> >> >> >>> > wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> I received this comment from someone who complained: >> >>>> >> >>>> *What about the lack of documentation? From time to time Iâve checked >> >>>> some >> >>>> SmallTalk implementations like Squeak, GNU-Smalltalk and now Pharo. >> Of >> >>>> these, only GNU-SmallTalk appears to have a free, official >> programming >> >>>> guide >> >>>> and core library reference that any serious programmer expects from a >> >>>> language. >> >>>> >> >>>> https://www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/manual-base/html_node/* >> >>>> >> >>>> I pointed to Pharo's documentation but then he came back with: >> >>>> >> >>>> *Then show me a link of the free, maintained reference documentation >> for >> >>>> the >> >>>> classes that form âthe core libraryâ, like this one for Python >> >>>> (https://docs.python.org/3/library/index.html)* >> >>>> >> >>>> It's true, most Smalltalks do not have a core library reference, not >> >>>> even >> >>>> VisualWorks! So what is the proper response to this complaint? >> >>> >> >>> The first answer is that Pharo/Smalltalk is unique in that a running >> >>> system/IDE contains _all_ source code, _all_ documentation (class, >> >>> method, >> >>> help, tutorial), _all_ unit tests and _all_ runnable examples in a >> very >> >>> easy, accessible way. It takes some getting used to, but this is >> actually >> >>> better and much more powerful than any alternative. >> >>> >> >>> The second answer is that there are lots of books and articles that >> take >> >>> the classic/structured book/paper approach. There is >> >>> http://books.pharo.org, http://themoosebook.org, >> >>> http://book.seaside.st/book, http://medium.com/concerning-pharo and >> many >> >>> more. >> >>> >> >>>> Thanks. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> > >> >> >

Oct. 11, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [TechTalk] 17th Oct: Artificial Intelligence

by jtuchel＠objektfabrik.de

Will this TechTalk be recorded? I will most likely not have time at that time... Joachim Am 11.10.17 um 09:47 schrieb Marcus Denker: > Pharo TechTalk: Artificial Intelligence > ââââââââââââââââââââââââ > > > A regular chat about Pharo. Happens on Discord. > Topic: Artificial Intelligence. > > This is an interactive mini lecture about AI by Alexandre Bergel. > > 17 Oct 2017 > 5:00 PM - 7:00 PM (UTC+02:00) This is 17h Paris time. > > you can download a calendar entry here: > > https://association.pharo.org/event-2642664 > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de Fliederweg 1Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â http://www.objektfabrik.de D-71640 Ludwigsburg http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0Â Â Â Â Â Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1

Oct. 11, 2017

TechTalk on Artificial Intelligence & Neural Networks

by Alexandre Bergel

Dear All, A TechTalk on Artificial Intelligence is soon approaching. The talk will be about implementing a neural networks in Pharo. It is scheduled on Tuesday 17Oct, 2017 (5:00 PM - 7:00 PM (UTC+02:00)) I need your input. Which example to you want me to use? - Data manipulation, or - Designing a small AI for a game Please answer: https://twitter.com/alexbergel/status/918084438197784578 Some info about the event: https://association.pharo.org/event-2642664 https://www.facebook.com/events/133683180530368 Thanks Marcus Denker and the RMoD crew for their help in organizing it. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Oct. 11, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Vitor Medina Cruz

I dunno, maybe Iâm weird, but I find the System Browser a fantastic way to explore the class library. If you find a class or method that isnât well documented, write a comment and send a change request. Stef told me this ages ago. I might add, if you find a bug you should write a test that exercises the bug and submit it on fogbugz (the bug tracking system). I will reference of response of mine to a similar opinion made by Richard: https://medium.com/@vitormcruz/i-disagree-it-is-much-harder-to-find-anythin… My 2 cents. On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 11:59 PM, john pfersich <jpfersich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Oct 10, 2017, at 09:58, horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Interestingly, I'm getting a fair amount of pushback on this. > Personally, I > > think it would be very helpful to have a live (updatable, so as to keep > it > > current) reference page for the class library, something that developers > can > > easily look up what they need. After all, most of the power of Pharo > comes > > from the class library and we need to make it as accessible as possible > to > > less experienced Pharoers (i.e., beginners). > > > > Exploring the class library through the System Browser is very > inefficient. > > This is further exacerbated by the fact that many classes and methods are > > simply not well-documented (containing a cursory remark which is just > barely > > useful). > > > I dunno, maybe Iâm weird, but I find the System Browser a fantastic way to > explore the class library. If you find a class or method that isnât well > documented, write a comment and send a change request. Stef told me this > ages ago. I might add, if you find a bug you should write a test that > exercises the bug and submit it on fogbugz (the bug tracking system). > > > I realize that creating a live reference page is not easy to do. In fact, > > it's a lot of work. But the absence of such a page is a real obstacle to > > Pharo acceptance. > > > > > > > > horrido wrote > >> Thanks. I gave your answer verbatim. I also added the following > paragraph: > >> > >> The problem I find with todayâs developers is that they are rather > >> closed-minded. They are rigid and inflexible, and not willing to adapt > to > >> new and different ways of doing things. In my generation (circa > >> 1980â1990), > >> people didnât have a problem with trying different technologies. Thatâs > >> why > >> I had no issue with learning Smalltalk 10 years ago, after I had retired > >> from a 20-year-long career in C systems programming and FORTRAN > scientific > >> programming. > >> > >> > >> > >> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote > >>>> On 6 Oct 2017, at 14:54, horrido < > >> > >>> horrido.hobbies@ > >> > >>> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I received this comment from someone who complained: > >>>> > >>>> *What about the lack of documentation? From time to time Iâve checked > >>>> some > >>>> SmallTalk implementations like Squeak, GNU-Smalltalk and now Pharo. Of > >>>> these, only GNU-SmallTalk appears to have a free, official programming > >>>> guide > >>>> and core library reference that any serious programmer expects from a > >>>> language. > >>>> > >>>> https://www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/manual-base/html_node/* > >>>> > >>>> I pointed to Pharo's documentation but then he came back with: > >>>> > >>>> *Then show me a link of the free, maintained reference documentation > for > >>>> the > >>>> classes that form âthe core libraryâ, like this one for Python > >>>> (https://docs.python.org/3/library/index.html)* > >>>> > >>>> It's true, most Smalltalks do not have a core library reference, not > >>>> even > >>>> VisualWorks! So what is the proper response to this complaint? > >>> > >>> The first answer is that Pharo/Smalltalk is unique in that a running > >>> system/IDE contains _all_ source code, _all_ documentation (class, > >>> method, > >>> help, tutorial), _all_ unit tests and _all_ runnable examples in a very > >>> easy, accessible way. It takes some getting used to, but this is > actually > >>> better and much more powerful than any alternative. > >>> > >>> The second answer is that there are lots of books and articles that > take > >>> the classic/structured book/paper approach. There is > >>> http://books.pharo.org, http://themoosebook.org, > >>> http://book.seaside.st/book, http://medium.com/concerning-pharo and > many > >>> more. > >>> > >>>> Thanks. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > >>>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > > >

Oct. 11, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [Ann] PharoLauncher v1.0.1 released!

by Vitor Medina Cruz

Hi Christophe, Yes, but: 1- I canât execute it if I donât have administrative rights â I have tried with the provided link. Before I get to the installation directory choice, windows prompt me an error telling me I must be an admin. It is probably some windows policy for all exe files, I know it is possible to bypass this as some applications do (Intellij for example), but it is usually easier to provide a zip; [image: Inline image 1] 2- 7-Zip can open this executable as it were a zip file, thatâs how I manage to install Pharo Launcher. On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 4:17 AM, Christophe Demarey < christophe.demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi Vitor, > > Le 10 oct. 2017 Ã 19:00, Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit > : > > Â« Program Â» folder is the default location where to install apps on >> Windows. >> If a user does not have admin rights, he can simply install it under its >> home directory. >> >> Also there is the UAC Virtualization fiasco that complicates installing >> upgrades. >> http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-dev_lists.pharo.org/ >> 2014-January/091645.html >> >> >> >> Could we *please* install Windows PharoLauncher into user folders? >> >> >> >> Users can choose to install Pharo Launcher where they wish. >> We could choose another default location but not sure it is best option. >> > > Nope, I donât have any option of changing Pharo launcher installation. I > double click the exe and receive a message telling me I need administrative > rights. Can this be changed? Itâs a deal breaker for those using Windows. > > For Windows, Pharo is shipped with an installer. Its only goal is to ask > you where to install Pharo. So yes, the installation directory is > configurable. > Just to be sure, here the link to the installer: http://files.pharo. > org/platform/launcher/pharo_installer-1.0.1.exe > >

Oct. 11, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [Ann] PharoLauncher v1.0.1 released!

by stephan

On 06-10-17 13:26, Christophe Demarey wrote: > For those wanted more info on how the adequate VM is computed, here is the process: > determine the image format version > find (and optionnaly fetch) a compatible VM (a VM able to run this image format) and run the image to get its Pharo version number > find (and optionnaly fetch) the appropriate VM for this specific Pharo image version. Sources files are also downloaded with the VM when applicable. > run the image with the appropriate VM Thanks, Christophe. It might be useful to regularly check for newer vms, at least the stable ones. VMs are supposed to be backwards compatible. Stephan

Oct. 11, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Update of ConfigurationOfGlorp

by stephan

On 06-10-17 17:22, Herby VojÄÃk wrote: > Any chance of incorporating fixes 127 / 129? Sure, as soon as someone tells me they are safe to add. I am just testing Glorp with P3 and Postgres now, and don't have the capacity to verify these changes other than by just reading the delta. Stephan

Oct. 11, 2017