- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

by James Ladd

Nice response Sent from my Commodore 64 > On 19 Oct 2017, at 7:02 pm, Sebastian Heidbrink <sheidev(a)yahoo.de> wrote: > > Hi Paulo, > > I think this is not the right question to ask. > The problem is not "Where to find Smalltalk developers?", the problem is rather > "How much effort does it take to help a good experienced OO developer to transition to Smalltalk?" > > OO developers have to steadily gain and learn new technologies and frameworks... > So why not Smalltalk? > Those developers that are not willing to learn a new language just because they consider the trade-offs of not finding a job in that field that easily, might not be the best choice for your team anyway... > > That is my experience... I know more developers missing the "Smalltalk experience" than those hating Smalltalk once they left a team... > > Sebastian > > >> On 2017-10-19 12:04 AM, Paulo R. Dellani wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> after using Smalltalk for several years I developed a passion for the >> language (how not to?), and Pharo is just so great to develop with. >> So thank you guys for keeping this wonderful project running. >> >> Unfortunately, it is not easy to always point out why Smalltalk >> should be employed as "main development language" in a team >> or for a project. In the last discussion of this sort I was confronted >> with the question "where are we going to get new smalltalk >> developers if our startup grows or if you go?". Well, I had no >> good answer to that. What would have you answered? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Paulo >> >> >> > >

Oct. 19, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

by stephan

On 19-10-17 09:04, Paulo R. Dellani wrote: > Unfortunately, it is not easy to always point out why Smalltalk > should be employed as "main development language" in a team > or for a project. In the last discussion of this sort I was confronted > with the question "where are we going to get new smalltalk > developers if our startup grows or if you go?". Well, I had no > good answer to that. What would have you answered? Regularly I go to the Esug Conference and the Pharo Days, and this year I had to cancel plans to go to Smalltalks. Those are places where I talk to smalltalkers, new and experienced. Every year there are good developers there who are looking for work, as intern, as a contractor or as an employee. By being there regularly I know who to talk to for different kinds of jobs, and for recommendations. Once in a while I also visit RMoD and HPI, to talk with people teaching smalltalk. The Pharo consortium maintains a list of consultants doing smalltalk work. For a company dependent on Smalltalk, I'd develop a systematic approach to ensuring attractiveness to smalltalk developers. Participation in the Pharo Consortium and presenting at conferences about open source contributions would be part of that, as might be defining research topics or summer jobs for students. Stephan

Oct. 19, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

by Sebastian Heidbrink

Hi Paulo, I think this is not the right question to ask. The problem is not "Where to find Smalltalk developers?", the problem is rather "How much effort does it take to help a good experienced OO developer to transition to Smalltalk?" OO developers have to steadily gain and learn new technologies and frameworks... So why not Smalltalk? Those developers that are not willing to learn a new language just because they consider the trade-offs of not finding a job in that field that easily, might not be the best choice for your team anyway... That is my experience... I know more developers missing the "Smalltalk experience" than those hating Smalltalk once they left a team... Sebastian On 2017-10-19 12:04 AM, Paulo R. Dellani wrote: > Dear all, > > after using Smalltalk for several years I developed a passion for the > language (how not to?), and Pharo is just so great to develop with. > So thank you guys for keeping this wonderful project running. > > Unfortunately, it is not easy to always point out why Smalltalk > should be employed as "main development language" in a team > or for a project. In the last discussion of this sort I was confronted > with the question "where are we going to get new smalltalk > developers if our startup grows or if you go?". Well, I had no > good answer to that. What would have you answered? > > Cheers, > > Paulo > > >

Oct. 19, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

by James Ladd

Hi Paulo, That is a really good question and I hope to do it justice. What if you chose Elixir, Ruby, Closure, Go or Pony or Smalltalk - where would you get developers? There is some validity to this question as it can be hard to get developers but in Smalltalkâs case there is a heritage that can help with that more so than say others that are too new to have a large community following and of course a reputation. Smalltalk has a reputation as a very productive environment and on average a better class (pardon the pun) of developers. There is something about Smalltalk developers that in my experience outshines developers from other backgrounds. Personally Iâd see Smalltalk as a draw card to join a company but Iâm biased. While it is important in a startup to attract good developers I would say that âgoodâ developers are more interested in the problem being solved than specifically the language being used. The goal w be to get something out and make revenue. You will most likely re-write at a future point that makes sense using what you have learned anyways. Of all the languages I have used over 30 years I find Smalltalk the easiest to pick up and run w so should you leave others should be able to continue in your absence. Besides depending on their position and background you w want them to own the solution and if changing language is part of that then so be it. That said, if they use Smalltalk for any reasonable amount of time and in anger Iâd be surprised if they like you didnât come to love it. In a nutshell - language choice is the least of your worries - James Sent from my Commodore 64 > On 19 Oct 2017, at 6:04 pm, Paulo R. Dellani <dellani(a)pobox.com> wrote: > > Dear all, > > after using Smalltalk for several years I developed a passion for the > language (how not to?), and Pharo is just so great to develop with. > So thank you guys for keeping this wonderful project running. > > Unfortunately, it is not easy to always point out why Smalltalk > should be employed as "main development language" in a team > or for a project. In the last discussion of this sort I was confronted > with the question "where are we going to get new smalltalk > developers if our startup grows or if you go?". Well, I had no > good answer to that. What would have you answered? > > Cheers, > > Paulo > >

Oct. 19, 2017

Smalltalk Argument

by Paulo R. Dellani

Dear all, after using Smalltalk for several years I developed a passion for the language (how not to?), and Pharo is just so great to develop with. So thank you guys for keeping this wonderful project running. Unfortunately, it is not easy to always point out why Smalltalk should be employed as "main development language" in a team or for a project. In the last discussion of this sort I was confronted with the question "where are we going to get new smalltalk developers if our startup grows or if you go?". Well, I had no good answer to that. What would have you answered? Cheers, Paulo

Oct. 19, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and instance variables ...

by Ben Coman

Hi James, As an offshoot to your question, when I wanted to understand the difference between "instance variables", "class variables" and "class instance variables" I made this quick demo... http://forum.world.st/Class-vars-and-inst-vars-of-a-class-tp4749910p4749914… that could make a good test to compare to existing Smalltalk systems. cheers -ben On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 6:45 PM, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: > That said from memory I think it was Digitalk or Enfin that used to > automatically generate accessors and mutators > > Sent from my Commodore 64 > > On 18 Oct 2017, at 4:34 pm, Markus Stumptner <mst(a)cs.unisa.edu.au> wrote: > > It would break code all over the place... > > On 18/10/2017 16:02, James Ladd wrote: > > What if accessors were generated but not mutators? > > Sent from my Commodore 64 > > On 18 Oct 2017, at 4:21 pm, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 7:07 AM, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hey David, >> >> If you could only access instance variables in the class that defined >> them and therefore only in a subclass via an accessor / mutator method w >> that be a big problem in your view? >> > > Yes. > > I don't want to have to define accessors, which are public, just to have > the subclasses access the instance variables. > > >> >> Sent from my Commodore 64 >> >> On 18 Oct 2017, at 2:41 pm, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: >> >> In Pharo, open a browser on OrderedCollection, then click "Variables" in >> the top left of the window and then "array"... if you scroll through you >> can see that mostly OrderedCollection methods use it, but some >> SortedCollection (a subclass) methods also use it. >> >> The model is similar to protected in Java (see http://docs.oracle.com/ja >> vase/tutorial/java/javaOO/accesscontrol.html ) except there is no >> "Package" column. >> >> On 17 October 2017 at 23:30, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Please could you provide an example? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 2:16 PM, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: >>> >>>> Any instance method in the class where the instance variable is defined >>>> or in a subclass can access the instance variable. Similarly for class >>>> methods to access class-side variables, and for class and instance methods >>>> to access class variables. >>>> >>>> On 17 October 2017 at 23:04, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Pharo Users, >>>>> >>>>> I'm wondering about instance variables for support in Redline >>>>> Smalltalk and >>>>> want to get my understanding straight. >>>>> >>>>> Are instance variables only accessible (without using #instVarNamed:) >>>>> inside >>>>> the method with the same name as the instance variable? >>>>> >>>>> eg: >>>>> >>>>> myInstVar >>>>> ^ myInstVar. >>>>> >>>>> Or can you reference an instance variable from a method that doesn't >>>>> have >>>>> the same name ? >>>>> >>>>> anotherMethod >>>>> ^ myInstVar. >>>>> >>>>> Can someone give me or point me to an example of accessing an instance >>>>> variable in Pharo Smalltalk? >>>>> >>>>> - James. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > -- > ClÃ©ment BÃ©ra > Pharo consortium engineer > https://clementbera.wordpress.com/ > BÃ¢timent B 40, avenue Halley 59650 Villeneuve d'Ascq > > >

Oct. 19, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Yet another Pharo in docker

by Herby VojÄÃk

Herby VojÄÃk wrote: > https://hub.docker.com/r/herbysk/pharo/ > Thanks to gotchas@dockerhub whose scripts I adapted.

Oct. 18, 2017

Yet another Pharo in docker

by Herby VojÄÃk

https://hub.docker.com/r/herbysk/pharo/

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] iceberg - changing non-code files in the same commit as code

by Esteban Lorenzano

this is a bit hardcore :) but you can do: repo addFilesToIndex: { âpath/to/file/relative/to/repoâ } Esteban > On 18 Oct 2017, at 15:27, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > this is maybe a bit advanced use case from Iceberg perspective, but quite basic from git perspective. > > Use case: > In the same commit where code has changed I want to update text file CHANGELOG.md. > > Right now I need to modify the file after the commit and then amend it (so it is in the same commit), but it would be nice to do everything from within Pharo. > > Thanks, > Peter

Oct. 18, 2017

iceberg - changing non-code files in the same commit as code

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

Hi, this is maybe a bit advanced use case from Iceberg perspective, but quite basic from git perspective. Use case: In the same commit where code has changed I want to update text file CHANGELOG.md. Right now I need to modify the file after the commit and then amend it (so it is in the same commit), but it would be nice to do everything from within Pharo. Thanks, Peter

Oct. 18, 2017