- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Writing "powerpoint" like presentations in Pharo?

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi stefan I'm interested. So if you want that I do code review and ask super dumb questions let me know. Stef On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 1:12 PM, stephan <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > On 10-11-17 12:06, H. Hirzel wrote: >> >> Is the code available somewhere? > > > I've been fighting somewhat with Iceberg, and using fast-changing > functionality in Bloc. I'm integrating the experiments and will provide a > link then. > > Stephan > >

Nov. 12, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] RewriteTool maintained?

by Stephane Ducasse

Probably. Mark decided not to do a PhD with us and the company with which he did his master. Now may be he is still following this list. May be we will rescue his tool. I do not know where it is saved. Stef On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > has Mark Rizun's Rewrite Tool been abandoned? > > Thanks, > Peter

Nov. 12, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo-users Digest, Vol 55, Issue 94

by Stephane Ducasse

> > I may have chosen the wrong words, sorry for that. The OPs comments sounded > so much like "why don't you have it like VW does" that I couldn't resist ;-) Don't worry :) >> We have a dependency analyser that is really advanced since it can >> check that you have message that are not in extension >> of packages that you use. >> In January I hope that we will start packaging Applications (versus >> packaging code), so that people can deploy >> desktop applications more easily. > > Sounds like this is another area in which you guys are moving much faster > than it looks from the outside. Yes because what people see is just open a window. But inside we are trying our best to REALLY improve and it will pays off because having a powerful infrastructure will let us reinvent ourselves. > > I don't have enough time to look into Pharo as much as I would and just by > reading the mailing lists and just dipping my toes into Pharo from time to > time, I sometimes get the impression Pharo is moving so fast I just can't > follow. I still am not sure I understand that Git/Iceberg stuff, and that is > already old hats for you guys... Git is a modern distributed version system (it looks simple at first and may be super complex) :) Iceberg is a toolsuite and model to support git access from Pharo. We try to avoid to force people to do everything from the command line and provide abstraction also to manage Pull Requests which are not related to git but to github. >> Now if people like vikenti wants our support. They should learn how to >> engage a discussion with us and not >> just complain :) > > That's probably what I wanted to say, but I am a kind person ;-)) Me also but not all the time :) :)

Nov. 12, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] deployment of pharo applications

by Stephane Ducasse

Yes On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote >>> Another stumbling block is application deployment. I've heard about some >>> "Launcher" but ... what is it? what it does? where to get it? >> the launcher is an application to manage your images and development. > > It may have been clear, but Laucher is to manage multiple development > images, not for deployment (although it uses some tricks that may be useful > for deployment like making the tool fullscreen) > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

Nov. 12, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo-users Digest, Vol 55, Issue 94

by jtuchel＠objektfabrik.de

Stef, Am 12.11.17 um 16:05 schrieb Stephane Ducasse: > Joachim > > We are focused on deployment but not the same way. > We are the first system that bootstrap a core and can load > dependencies on this core. I may have chosen the wrong words, sorry for that. The OPs comments sounded so much like "why don't you have it like VW does" that I couldn't resist ;-) > We have a dependency analyser that is really advanced since it can > check that you have message that are not in extension > of packages that you use. > In January I hope that we will start packaging Applications (versus > packaging code), so that people can deploy > desktop applications more easily. Sounds like this is another area in which you guys are moving much faster than it looks from the outside. I don't have enough time to look into Pharo as much as I would and just by reading the mailing lists and just dipping my toes into Pharo from time to time, I sometimes get the impression Pharo is moving so fast I just can't follow. I still am not sure I understand that Git/Iceberg stuff, and that is already old hats for you guys... > > Now if people like vikenti wants our support. They should learn how to > engage a discussion with us and not > just complain :) That's probably what I wanted to say, but I am a kind person ;-)) Joachim

Nov. 12, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] deployment of pharo applications

by Sean P. DeNigris

Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote >> Another stumbling block is application deployment. I've heard about some >> "Launcher" but ... what is it? what it does? where to get it? > the launcher is an application to manage your images and development. It may have been clear, but Laucher is to manage multiple development images, not for deployment (although it uses some tricks that may be useful for deployment like making the tool fullscreen) ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Nov. 12, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] deployment of pharo applications

by Stephane Ducasse

On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 6:58 PM, ÐÐ¸ÐºÐµÐ½ÑÐ¸Ð¹ ÐÐ¾ÑÐ°Ð¿Ð¾Ð² <vikenti.potapov(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Well, i've got very extensive feedback for i18n of applications, there are few solutions i can use, despite there is no united way embedded into pharo view on application design. That's ok, i can do something for my one taste (i prefer it to be a part of SPEC framework or something like this). > > Another stumbling block is application deployment. I've heard about some "Launcher" but ... what is it? what it does? where to get it? the launcher is an application to manage your images and development. You can find it at - http://files.pharo.org/platform/launcher/ (do not use blessed but the latest version of your platform) we should promote this tool better > In Cincom VW deployment means: > - get rid of all we don't use in image. > - test image for successful run > - delete all sources (hide it from disassembler) Until recently in Pharo it was not possible to remove the compiler. Now we can create an image without the compiler. We have to continue > - lock\hide all excessive menus, tools or any backdoor to launch Smalltalk IDE or execute smaltalk code presented as text. - You should remove and provide something as s replacement for the UnhandledException defaultAction else you get the debugger. Now you application should use exception. For the menu, check the pragma <WorldMenu> > - pack image and VM together with specified name of main executable. For this you should use bash or bat files. > > What can i do with Pharo? Does it have unified method to deploy pharo applications? I didn't find that method, and i ought to do some messy stuff "by hand". > > It will be very useful to do some steps in that direction. I want Pharo to be comfortable tool for application development. Like Delphi or C++ (where i came from but don't want to get get back to, after Smalltalk any other platform seems imperfect for me). We want the same but we are not yet there. I want APPLICATIONS not just code loaded into Pharo. > > Faithfully yours, Vikenti Potapov. > >

Nov. 12, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo-Chrome (was: Soup bug(fix))

by Stephane Ducasse

Tx and one day we can turn it into another little booklet :) Stef On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Stef, > > On 12 November 2017 at 14:47, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> exampleNavigation >> | chrome page logger | >> logger := InMemoryLogger new. >> logger start. >> chrome := GoogleChrome new >> debugOn; >> debugSession; >> open; >> yourself. >> page := chrome tabPages first. >> page enablePage. >> page enableDOM. >> page navigateTo: 'http://pharo.org'. >> page getDocument. >> page getMissingChildren. >> page updateTitle. >> logger stop. >> ^{ chrome. page. logger. } >> >> but in fact I realised that I would like to a simple doc :) >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 2:44 PM, Stephane Ducasse >> <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi alistair >>> >>> this is cool. >>> Do you have one little example so that we can see how we can use it? >>> >>> Stef > > Fair enough :-) > > I'll try and extend the readme to include some basic documentation. > > Cheers, > Alistair > > > >>> On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 4:38 PM, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> On 9 November 2017 at 00:00, Kjell Godo <squeaklist(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> i like to collect some newspaper comics from an online newspaper >>>>> but it takes really long to do it by hand by hand >>>>> i tried Soup but i didnât get anywhere >>>>> the pictures were hidden behind a script or something >>>>> is there anything to do about that? >>>> >>>> Most of the web pages I want to scrape use javascript to construct the >>>> DOM, which makes Soup. XMLHTMLParser, etc. useless. >>>> >>>> I've extended Torsten's Pharo-Chrome library and use that to navigate >>>> the DOM in a way similar to Soup: >>>> >>>> https://github.com/akgrant43/Pharo-Chrome >>>> >>>> This gets around the issue with javascript since it waits for the >>>> browser to load the page, run the javascript and construct the DOM. >>>> >>>> HTH, >>>> Alistair >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> i donât want to collect them all >>>>> i have the XPath .pdf but i havenât read it yet >>>>> >>>>> these browsers seem to gobble up memory >>>>> and while open they just keep getting bigger till the OS session crash >>>>> might there be a browser that is more minimal? >>>>> >>>>> Vivaldi seems better at not bloating up RAM >>>> >> >

Nov. 12, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo-users Digest, Vol 55, Issue 94

by Stephane Ducasse

Joachim We are focused on deployment but not the same way. We are the first system that bootstrap a core and can load dependencies on this core. We have a dependency analyser that is really advanced since it can check that you have message that are not in extension of packages that you use. In January I hope that we will start packaging Applications (versus packaging code), so that people can deploy desktop applications more easily. Now if people like vikenti wants our support. They should learn how to engage a discussion with us and not just complain :) Stef On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 6:02 AM, jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de <jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> wrote: > Am 11.11.17 um 22:29 schrieb ÐÐ¸ÐºÐµÐ½ÑÐ¸Ð¹ ÐÐ¾ÑÐ°Ð¿Ð¾Ð²: > > Vikenti, >> >> And also i mean some simple and understandable deployment tool (as in >> Cincom VW exists) but not manual-written bash scripts. This tool asks me >> what class\accessor send open message, asks what to strip and how to pack my >> image. Few simple steps and i have perfectly cleaned minimal image with all >> image started methods tuned to load necessary class. It's really cool stuff. >> It's a pity, my low-level SmallTalk knowledge (VW + Pharo) is not enough to >> port this tool or create the new one. > > just out of curiosity and following my first reflex: if VisualWorks offers > most of what you need and is essentially what you want - why do you want to > switch to Pharo? > > This is not intended to be offensive or provoking. I just wonder if an open > source project is the right thing for you. Pharo is emerging and has quite > some pace doing so. This is both good and bad - at many levels. Commercial > offerings may be a lot slower and thus less of a "moving target" (not sure I > am citing you, but I know I read this in one of the threads about the > current state of Pharo just these days), but they are pretty much focussed > on issues like deployment and stable APIs. > > > Joachim > > >

Nov. 12, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo-users Digest, Vol 55, Issue 94

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi vikenti Can you tell us what you are trying to do? So that we can help you. There is no deployement tools in Pharo. First because we can easily break the one of visualworks with reflective operations. Second because we are focusing on something else. Now you can take Pharo and remove some packages. You can write your own release builder. What is cool is that you can also automate your release process. >From Pharo 70 the process is to take a small image and build a new one. We should work on packaging an App (removing system menu and other). Stef On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 10:29 PM, ÐÐ¸ÐºÐµÐ½ÑÐ¸Ð¹ ÐÐ¾ÑÐ°Ð¿Ð¾Ð² <vikenti.potapov(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I want to get these esug videos, but i've searched through the whole pharo site and i haven't found them ... :( > I appreciate if you point me where to find help on working with minimal image\deploying with Pharo. > And i also think this very important information should be available on pharo site at conspicuous place. > > What about Dr.Geo - i've downloaded this program to test from official site (http://www.drgeo.eu/download#TOC-PC-Mac-GNU-Linux) I launched DrGeo.bat, as it noted in instruction. It shown me console window and Pharo command line options. That's all. It didn't start. I think, the reason is - also cyrillic paths, but ... who knows? > > And also i mean some simple and understandable deployment tool (as in Cincom VW exists) but not manual-written bash scripts. This tool asks me what class\accessor send open message, asks what to strip and how to pack my image. Few simple steps and i have perfectly cleaned minimal image with all image started methods tuned to load necessary class. It's really cool stuff. It's a pity, my low-level SmallTalk knowledge (VW + Pharo) is not enough to port this tool or create the new one. > > Please, understand me right, i don't criticize pharo, but i'm trying to understand what to do and how to do with less efforts for me. And these are the questions every developer asks. > >> On 11-11-17 18:58, ???????? ??????? wrote: >> > Another stumbling block is application deployment. >> >> You want to start from a minimal image and load everything you need with >> a Metacello baseline/configuration. And you want to change some settings >> to run without sources. You will run into parts that are not modularized >> enough yet and need their baselines to be split up further than they are >> now. >> >> The minimal image is rather minimal. See the esug videos >> >> Stephan > >

Nov. 12, 2017