- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Network data exchange - Basys and Seamless usage questioning

by henry

I did have trouble I just learned. I jumped into the full documentation and forgot to go back. The very next line answers my question! Sorry to waste your time .. Sent from ProtonMail Mobile On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 09:37, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, Henry. > > Just follow instructions on github page. Do you have any problem with them? (I ask because you probably noticed it). > > Also look at main application built on top of Seamless: TelePharo project https://github.com/dionisiydk/TelePharo, http://dionisiydk.blogspot.fr/2017/08/pharmide-is-renamed-to-telepharo-and.…. > > Seamless does not provide any security option. So now it is up to user to establish secure network with external tools like SSH or VPN. > So it can be interesting to implement it with your solution. But I have no time to work on it. > > 2017-11-17 15:26 GMT+01:00 henry <henry(a)callistohouse.club>: > >> From my years of Squeaking, I only ever us Monticello Browser. As one new to our using github, Metacello and Pharo, could you explain how I would load Seamless? I think it is a Metacello command. I am very interested in seeing how it runs on ParrotTalk and thought I would explore this system. >> >> Thank you >> >> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile >> >> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 11:14, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> 2017-11-16 17:11 GMT+01:00 henry <henry(a)callistohouse.club>: >>> >>>> Have you seen ParrotTalk? >>>> >>>> http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/ParrotTalk-HenryHouse.14.mcz >>>> >>>> http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/ParrotTalk-HenryHouse.14.mczRequir… >>>> >>>> http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/Cryptography-HenryHouse.113.mcz >>>> >>>> http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/Cryptography-HenryHouse.113.mczWhe… could I find Seamless? I am doing similar with a project Raven: distributed objects over encrypted ASN.1/STON encoded connections. >>> >>> https://github.com/dionisiydk/Seamless >>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 18:09, CÃ©drick BÃ©ler <cdrick65(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> sorry for the late reply Denis, >>>>> >>>>>> Can you show example how you work with your objects using this network? >>>>> >>>>> Itâs not fully decided yet. Iâm just trying to show that 2 peers A and B can exchange and sync information without central server, but also considering they have multiples devices (connected on demand P2P - offline first is a major requirement). >>>>> >>>>> So for now, to test, I just connect A and B through basys by sending a connection in both direction A->B B->A. I think ok keeping a "message hub Â» specific to each interaction A can have with B(s), C(s)... A queue but that kind of never deletes messages but changes its meta content - so as to sync with other devices when they eventually connect). >>>>> >>>>> So for now, my need is quite simple regarding connections. >>>>> I used mostly for now #sendDataPacket: >>>>> >>>>> I could do it also with Zinc in HTTP. But, as always in Smalltalk, I explore in plenty of directions and discover great stuffs like Seamless perfectly usable and some less finished or older gems like BitTalk or UbiquiTalkâ¦ Very interesting as I will need more functionalities to deal with decentralized networks. >>>>> >>>>>> BasisNetworkStub is only created for tests. And I think it misses one important function: how identify peers. When your image get new connection it should identify what remote peer is connected by it. So two connections from same remote image should be identified as single peer instance on your local image. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, sure Iâve spotted that and I definitely need a way to identify peer-devices (belonging to a peer realm/swarm). Iâll do later. >>>>> >>>>>> I would of course use Seamless for distributed applications because it allows to implement solution with objects locally and then transparently split them over network. >>>>>> But Seamless not implements any kind of message queue. So I would use some proven solution for it instead of custom implementation. But it can depends on the task. >>>>> >>>>> Do you think of something in particular ? :) >>>>> For now my queue will only be ordered collections or whatever simple collection. It should be enough to start with. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> 2) or may I use Seamless straight with restrictions (I wonder if limiting the classes that can be executed would suffice - proxies should only be on the peer inbox and outbox I think) ? >>>>>> >>>>>>> 3) or maybe I should do a lighter version of seamless ? If so where should I look at/change ? >>>>>> >>>>>> You can try subclass SeamlessNetwork and override request processing method with special restrictions on what requests are permitted. Maybe you can propose such kind of policy to the Seamless itself. >>>>> >>>>> Subclassing Seamless seems to be a very good simple and powerful possibility (to get inspiration too) and I may do that. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway most of what I have to do is build a system that seamlessly present to the user information extracted from messages (stored locally- versioned) => its actually just transposing what you all are used too with tools like git but applied to Â« general information exchange and processing Â». >>>>> Enterprise information systems are so boringâ¦ they should be far more a la smalltalk ^^ >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> CÃ©drick

Nov. 17, 2017

Using PharoCloud: 500 Internal Server Error (nginx)

by Juraj Kubelka

Hi! I am playing for the first time with PharoCloud. I do the following steps: - download Pharo 6 image - open the image and execute `ZnServer startDefaultOn: 8080` - tests http://localhost:8080 <http://localhost:8080/> (I see Zinc welcome message) - save and quit the image and compress the image and changes - login to PharoCloud using Pharo Association account https://www.pharocloud.com/manager/connect <https://www.pharocloud.com/manager/connect> - upload the ZIP archive with Pharo image and changes using PharoCloud Ephemeric Manager v3.0 web interface - set expose ports to 8080 and submit the configuration - activate the image, it asks me to login again (and I login with Pharo Association account) - the image is active (green circle) - click on its hostname and I see 500 Internal Server Error (nginx) instead of the welcome message Is it suppose to work? Do I miss something? Thanks, Juraj

Nov. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Network data exchange - Basys and Seamless usage questioning

by Denis Kudriashov

Hi, Henry. Just follow instructions on github page. Do you have any problem with them? (I ask because you probably noticed it). Also look at main application built on top of Seamless: TelePharo project https://github.com/dionisiydk/TelePharo, http://dionisiydk.blogspot.fr/2017/08/pharmide-is-renamed-to-telepharo-and.… . Seamless does not provide any security option. So now it is up to user to establish secure network with external tools like SSH or VPN. So it can be interesting to implement it with your solution. But I have no time to work on it. 2017-11-17 15:26 GMT+01:00 henry <henry(a)callistohouse.club>: > From my years of Squeaking, I only ever us Monticello Browser. As one new > to our using github, Metacello and Pharo, could you explain how I would > load Seamless? I think it is a Metacello command. I am very interested in > seeing how it runs on ParrotTalk and thought I would explore this system. > > Thank you > > Sent from ProtonMail Mobile > > > On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 11:14, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > 2017-11-16 17:11 GMT+01:00 henry <henry(a)callistohouse.club>: > >> Have you seen ParrotTalk? >> >> http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/ParrotTalk-HenryHouse.14.mcz >> >> <http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/ParrotTalk-HenryHouse.14.mcz> >> Requiring >> >> http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/Cryptography-HenryHouse.113.mcz >> >> <http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/Cryptography-HenryHouse.113.mcz>Where >> could I find Seamless? I am doing similar with a project Raven: distributed >> objects over encrypted ASN.1/STON encoded connections. >> > > https://github.com/dionisiydk/Seamless > > >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 18:09, CÃ©drick BÃ©ler <cdrick65(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> sorry for the late reply Denis, >> >> >> Can you show example how you work with your objects using this network? >> >> >> Itâs not fully decided yet. Iâm just trying to show that 2 peers A and B >> can exchange and sync information without central server, but also >> considering they have multiples devices (connected on demand P2P - offline >> first is a major requirement). >> >> So for now, to test, I just connect A and B through basys by sending a >> connection in both direction A->B B->A. I think ok keeping a "message hub Â» >> specific to each interaction A can have with B(s), C(s)... A queue but that >> kind of never deletes messages but changes its meta content - so as to sync >> with other devices when they eventually connect). >> >> So for now, my need is quite simple regarding connections. >> I used mostly for now #sendDataPacket: >> >> I could do it also with Zinc in HTTP. But, as always in Smalltalk, I >> explore in plenty of directions and discover great stuffs like Seamless >> perfectly usable and some less finished or older gems like BitTalk or >> UbiquiTalkâ¦ Very interesting as I will need more functionalities to deal >> with decentralized networks. >> >> >> BasisNetworkStub is only created for tests. And I think it misses one >> important function: how identify peers. When your image get new connection >> it should identify what remote peer is connected by it. So two connections >> from same remote image should be identified as single peer instance on your >> local image. >> >> >> Yes, sure Iâve spotted that and I definitely need a way to identify >> peer-devices (belonging to a peer realm/swarm). Iâll do later. >> >> >> I would of course use Seamless for distributed applications because it >> allows to implement solution with objects locally and then transparently >> split them over network. >> But Seamless not implements any kind of message queue. So I would use >> some proven solution for it instead of custom implementation. But it can >> depends on the task. >> >> >> Do you think of something in particular ? :) >> For now my queue will only be ordered collections or whatever simple >> collection. It should be enough to start with. >> >> >> >>> 2) or may I use Seamless straight with restrictions (I wonder if >>> limiting the classes that can be executed would suffice - proxies should >>> only be on the peer inbox and outbox I think) ? >> >> 3) or maybe I should do a lighter version of seamless ? If so where >>> should I look at/change ? >>> >> >> You can try subclass SeamlessNetwork and override request processing >> method with special restrictions on what requests are permitted. Maybe you >> can propose such kind of policy to the Seamless itself. >> >> >> >> Subclassing Seamless seems to be a very good simple and powerful >> possibility (to get inspiration too) and I may do that. >> >> Anyway most of what I have to do is build a system that seamlessly >> present to the user information extracted from messages (stored locally- >> versioned) => its actually just transposing what you all are used too with >> tools like git but applied to Â« general information exchange and processing >> Â». >> Enterprise information systems are so boringâ¦ they should be far more a >> la smalltalk ^^ >> >> Cheers, >> >> CÃ©drick >> >> >> >

Nov. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Network data exchange - Basys and Seamless usage questioning

by henry

>From my years of Squeaking, I only ever us Monticello Browser. As one new to our using github, Metacello and Pharo, could you explain how I would load Seamless? I think it is a Metacello command. I am very interested in seeing how it runs on ParrotTalk and thought I would explore this system. Thank you Sent from ProtonMail Mobile On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 11:14, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2017-11-16 17:11 GMT+01:00 henry <henry(a)callistohouse.club>: > >> Have you seen ParrotTalk? >> >> http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/ParrotTalk-HenryHouse.14.mcz >> >> http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/ParrotTalk-HenryHouse.14.mczRequir… >> >> http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/Cryptography-HenryHouse.113.mcz >> >> http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/Cryptography-HenryHouse.113.mczWhe… could I find Seamless? I am doing similar with a project Raven: distributed objects over encrypted ASN.1/STON encoded connections. > > https://github.com/dionisiydk/Seamless > >> Thank you. >> >> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile >> >> On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 18:09, CÃ©drick BÃ©ler <cdrick65(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> sorry for the late reply Denis, >>> >>>> Can you show example how you work with your objects using this network? >>> >>> Itâs not fully decided yet. Iâm just trying to show that 2 peers A and B can exchange and sync information without central server, but also considering they have multiples devices (connected on demand P2P - offline first is a major requirement). >>> >>> So for now, to test, I just connect A and B through basys by sending a connection in both direction A->B B->A. I think ok keeping a "message hub Â» specific to each interaction A can have with B(s), C(s)... A queue but that kind of never deletes messages but changes its meta content - so as to sync with other devices when they eventually connect). >>> >>> So for now, my need is quite simple regarding connections. >>> I used mostly for now #sendDataPacket: >>> >>> I could do it also with Zinc in HTTP. But, as always in Smalltalk, I explore in plenty of directions and discover great stuffs like Seamless perfectly usable and some less finished or older gems like BitTalk or UbiquiTalkâ¦ Very interesting as I will need more functionalities to deal with decentralized networks. >>> >>>> BasisNetworkStub is only created for tests. And I think it misses one important function: how identify peers. When your image get new connection it should identify what remote peer is connected by it. So two connections from same remote image should be identified as single peer instance on your local image. >>> >>> Yes, sure Iâve spotted that and I definitely need a way to identify peer-devices (belonging to a peer realm/swarm). Iâll do later. >>> >>>> I would of course use Seamless for distributed applications because it allows to implement solution with objects locally and then transparently split them over network. >>>> But Seamless not implements any kind of message queue. So I would use some proven solution for it instead of custom implementation. But it can depends on the task. >>> >>> Do you think of something in particular ? :) >>> For now my queue will only be ordered collections or whatever simple collection. It should be enough to start with. >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> 2) or may I use Seamless straight with restrictions (I wonder if limiting the classes that can be executed would suffice - proxies should only be on the peer inbox and outbox I think) ? >>>> >>>>> 3) or maybe I should do a lighter version of seamless ? If so where should I look at/change ? >>>> >>>> You can try subclass SeamlessNetwork and override request processing method with special restrictions on what requests are permitted. Maybe you can propose such kind of policy to the Seamless itself. >>> >>> Subclassing Seamless seems to be a very good simple and powerful possibility (to get inspiration too) and I may do that. >>> >>> Anyway most of what I have to do is build a system that seamlessly present to the user information extracted from messages (stored locally- versioned) => its actually just transposing what you all are used too with tools like git but applied to Â« general information exchange and processing Â». >>> Enterprise information systems are so boringâ¦ they should be far more a la smalltalk ^^ >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> CÃ©drick

Nov. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Timespan translateToUTC problematic

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Both interpretation are correct and valid, it is just hard to capture them with one class. In normal human conversation and in the abstract, of course a date is just a year/month/date triple. But that is because most people only look at this from their own perspective. However, from an international perspective, of course it must include time zone info. Remember end-of-year/new-year, with all those articles about people in other countries partying or having fireworks earlier/later. Date transitions are different in each time zone, so to talk accurately about a date, you need the context of a time zone. Whether that timezone is actually part of the date object is another discussion, but there is always the timezone context even if it is implicit ('of course I mean my own timezone and not yours'). > On 17 Nov 2017, at 14:19, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Because Date has, by definition, no concept of time. > The only reason why you see it is because someone decided to save a bit of time and reuse implementation. > > If you want to move TZ, you need something that _has_ time. Such as DateAndTime. > > You can also read the comments ... > > Date > > Instances of Date are Timespans with duration of 1 day. > > it represents an entire day, not a particular time point > > DateAndTime > > I represent a point in time or timestamp as defined by ISO 8601. > > I am TimeZone aware. > > I really don't understand why are you trying to force TZ into Date against it's purpose when you have a class that does exactly what you want and was built for that purpose. > > Peter > > On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Prof. Andrew P. Black <black(a)cs.pdx.edu> wrote: > >> On 17 Nov 2017, at 08:49 , Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I find the concept of translating TZ of a Date silly. The real bug imho should be that it prints both time and TZ.... this is Date, not DateAndTime. >> > > I live in Oregon, and frequently work with people in New Zealand, which is (depending on the time of year) 19 to 21 hours ahead of Oregon. So, when it is 3pm at home, it is noon the next day in New Zealand. > > This means that in order to know the day of the week, the month, and even the year, of a given instant in UTC, one has to know the timezone that is being referred to. The answer could be Sunday, 31 December 2017 for one observer, and Monday, 1 January 2018 for another. > > So, contrary to your statement, I donât see how I can know the date without also knowing the Time Zone. > > Andrew >

Nov. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Timespan translateToUTC problematic

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

Because Date has, by definition, no concept of time. The only reason why you see it is because someone decided to save a bit of time and reuse implementation. If you want to move TZ, you need something that _has_ time. Such as DateAndTime. You can also read the comments ... Date > Instances of Date are Timespans with duration of 1 day. it represents an entire day, not a particular time point DateAndTime > I represent a point in time or timestamp as defined by ISO 8601. > I am TimeZone aware. I really don't understand why are you trying to force TZ into Date against it's purpose when you have a class that does exactly what you want and was built for that purpose. Peter On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Prof. Andrew P. Black <black(a)cs.pdx.edu> wrote: > > On 17 Nov 2017, at 08:49 , Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I find the concept of translating TZ of a Date silly. The real bug imho > should be that it prints both time and TZ.... this is Date, not DateAndTime. > > > I live in Oregon, and frequently work with people in New Zealand, which is > (depending on the time of year) 19 to 21 hours ahead of Oregon. So, when > it is 3pm at home, it is noon *the next day* in New Zealand. > > This means that in order to know the day of the week, the month, and even > the year, of a given instant in UTC, one has to know the timezone that is > being referred to. The answer could be Sunday, 31 December 2017 for one > observer, and Monday, 1 January 2018 for another. > > So, contrary to your statement, I donât see how I can know the date > without also knowing the Time Zone. > > Andrew >

Nov. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Catching EOF in SmaCC

by Thierry Goubier

Hi Andrew, there is an 'E O F' token generated by SmaCC; I haven't tried to use it in a parser yet. The second is used in the Python2 parser. See: https://github.com/ThierryGoubier/SmaCC/blob/master/SmaCC-Python.package/Py… Regards, Thierry Le 17/11/2017 Ã 04:11, Prof. Andrew P. Black a Ã©critÂ : > Is there a way, in SmaCC, or either > > - writing a grammar production that involves EOF (end of file) > - or, writing a scanner action that is executed when EOF is read. > > Andrew > > >

Nov. 17, 2017

Catching EOF in SmaCC

by Prof. Andrew P. Black

Is there a way, in SmaCC, or either - writing a grammar production that involves EOF (end of file) - or, writing a scanner action that is executed when EOF is read. Andrew

Nov. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Timespan translateToUTC problematic

by Prof. Andrew P. Black

> On 17 Nov 2017, at 08:49 , Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I find the concept of translating TZ of a Date silly. The real bug imho should be that it prints both time and TZ.... this is Date, not DateAndTime. > I live in Oregon, and frequently work with people in New Zealand, which is (depending on the time of year) 19 to 21 hours ahead of Oregon. So, when it is 3pm at home, it is noon the next day in New Zealand. This means that in order to know the day of the week, the month, and even the year, of a given instant in UTC, one has to know the timezone that is being referred to. The answer could be Sunday, 31 December 2017 for one observer, and Monday, 1 January 2018 for another. So, contrary to your statement, I donât see how I can know the date without also knowing the Time Zone. Andrew

Nov. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.1-64 on Ubuntu 17.10 (Artful Aardvark)

by Pavel Krivanek

https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/488 Thank you for reporting -- Pavel 2017-11-17 2:21 GMT+01:00 Richard A. O'Keefe <ok(a)cs.otago.ac.nz>: > The "Welcome to Pharo6.1" window has a navbar on > the left starting with "Welcome to Pharo 6.1" and > ending with "Getting Help". 3rd to last is > "Using Eternal Packages", which should read "External". > >

Nov. 17, 2017