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Re: [Pharo-users] my mistake on Spec?

by Yuriy Babah

Thanks for your help, Stef. Mistakes remain, but I will try to understand them 2018-03-04 16:35 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com>: > I'm doing a pass on your code > > OrderedCollection new is better to me than #() asOrderedCollection. > > GUI_ListCourtCase new openWithSpec > => DNU > So I added the first missing method, but you should define the > corresponding methods in the class. > > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 2:28 PM, Stephane Ducasse > <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi yuri > > > > some feedback before looking into spec. > > tab method bodies > > then do not use instance variables with uppercase. > > > > Stef > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 2:26 PM, Yuriy Babah <babah.yuriy06(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> changed > >> > >> 2018-03-04 16:20 GMT+03:00 Yuriy Babah <babah.yuriy06(a)gmail.com>: > >>> > >>> Is it enough if I just attach it? > >>> > >>> I slightly changed the code, that leads to error: "DoesNotUndestand > >>> #plaintiffsTextInput" . > >>> > >>> Now I'm studying Help on Spec in SystemBrowser . > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> 2018-03-04 15:23 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com>: > >>>> > >>>> Hi Yuriy > >>>> > >>>> this is difficult to debug remotely. Do you have your code somewhere? > >>>> > >>>> Stef > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 8:41 AM, Yuriy Babah <babah.yuriy06(a)gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > Hi! > >>>> > I'm trying to write GUI element with Spec, Pharo6.1x64 on Linux. > >>>> > Do according to the SpecBooklet. > >>>> > > >>>> > Finished the fragment, and try do: > >>>> > > >>>> > ui := GUI_ListCourtCase new openWithSpec . -> #value was sent to > nil. > >>>> > > >>>> > I look in a debugger and: > >>>> > > >>>> > openWithSpecLayout: aSpec > >>>> > "Build the widget using the spec name provided as argument and > >>>> > display > >>>> > it into a window" > >>>> > > >>>> > (window value notNil and: [ self needRebuild not ]) > >>>> > ifTrue: [ "window != nil" > >>>> > window value rebuildWithSpecLayout: aSpec ] > >>>> > ifFalse: [ "If value = Nil --> send him a message ???" > >>>> > window value: (self defaultWindowModelClass new model: > >>>> > self). > >>>> > window value openWithSpecLayout: aSpec. > >>>> > self takeKeyboardFocus ]. > >>>> > > >>>> > ^ window value > >>>> > >>> > >> >

March 4, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] my mistake on Spec?

by Stephane Ducasse

I'm doing a pass on your code OrderedCollection new is better to me than #() asOrderedCollection. GUI_ListCourtCase new openWithSpec => DNU So I added the first missing method, but you should define the corresponding methods in the class. On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 2:28 PM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi yuri > > some feedback before looking into spec. > tab method bodies > then do not use instance variables with uppercase. > > Stef > > > On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 2:26 PM, Yuriy Babah <babah.yuriy06(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> changed >> >> 2018-03-04 16:20 GMT+03:00 Yuriy Babah <babah.yuriy06(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>> Is it enough if I just attach it? >>> >>> I slightly changed the code, that leads to error: "DoesNotUndestand >>> #plaintiffsTextInput" . >>> >>> Now I'm studying Help on Spec in SystemBrowser . >>> >>> >>> >>> 2018-03-04 15:23 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com>: >>>> >>>> Hi Yuriy >>>> >>>> this is difficult to debug remotely. Do you have your code somewhere? >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 8:41 AM, Yuriy Babah <babah.yuriy06(a)gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> > Hi! >>>> > I'm trying to write GUI element with Spec, Pharo6.1x64 on Linux. >>>> > Do according to the SpecBooklet. >>>> > >>>> > Finished the fragment, and try do: >>>> > >>>> > ui := GUI_ListCourtCase new openWithSpec . -> #value was sent to nil. >>>> > >>>> > I look in a debugger and: >>>> > >>>> > openWithSpecLayout: aSpec >>>> > "Build the widget using the spec name provided as argument and >>>> > display >>>> > it into a window" >>>> > >>>> > (window value notNil and: [ self needRebuild not ]) >>>> > ifTrue: [ "window != nil" >>>> > window value rebuildWithSpecLayout: aSpec ] >>>> > ifFalse: [ "If value = Nil --> send him a message ???" >>>> > window value: (self defaultWindowModelClass new model: >>>> > self). >>>> > window value openWithSpecLayout: aSpec. >>>> > self takeKeyboardFocus ]. >>>> > >>>> > ^ window value >>>> >>> >>

March 4, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] my mistake on Spec?

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi yuri some feedback before looking into spec. tab method bodies then do not use instance variables with uppercase. Stef On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 2:26 PM, Yuriy Babah <babah.yuriy06(a)gmail.com> wrote: > changed > > 2018-03-04 16:20 GMT+03:00 Yuriy Babah <babah.yuriy06(a)gmail.com>: >> >> Is it enough if I just attach it? >> >> I slightly changed the code, that leads to error: "DoesNotUndestand >> #plaintiffsTextInput" . >> >> Now I'm studying Help on Spec in SystemBrowser . >> >> >> >> 2018-03-04 15:23 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>> Hi Yuriy >>> >>> this is difficult to debug remotely. Do you have your code somewhere? >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 8:41 AM, Yuriy Babah <babah.yuriy06(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > Hi! >>> > I'm trying to write GUI element with Spec, Pharo6.1x64 on Linux. >>> > Do according to the SpecBooklet. >>> > >>> > Finished the fragment, and try do: >>> > >>> > ui := GUI_ListCourtCase new openWithSpec . -> #value was sent to nil. >>> > >>> > I look in a debugger and: >>> > >>> > openWithSpecLayout: aSpec >>> > "Build the widget using the spec name provided as argument and >>> > display >>> > it into a window" >>> > >>> > (window value notNil and: [ self needRebuild not ]) >>> > ifTrue: [ "window != nil" >>> > window value rebuildWithSpecLayout: aSpec ] >>> > ifFalse: [ "If value = Nil --> send him a message ???" >>> > window value: (self defaultWindowModelClass new model: >>> > self). >>> > window value openWithSpecLayout: aSpec. >>> > self takeKeyboardFocus ]. >>> > >>> > ^ window value >>> >> >

March 4, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] my mistake on Spec?

by Yuriy Babah

changed 2018-03-04 16:20 GMT+03:00 Yuriy Babah <babah.yuriy06(a)gmail.com>: > Is it enough if I just attach it? > > I slightly changed the code, that leads to error: "DoesNotUndestand > #plaintiffsTextInput" . > > Now I'm studying Help on Spec in SystemBrowser . > > > > 2018-03-04 15:23 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com>: > >> Hi Yuriy >> >> this is difficult to debug remotely. Do you have your code somewhere? >> >> Stef >> >> On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 8:41 AM, Yuriy Babah <babah.yuriy06(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > Hi! >> > I'm trying to write GUI element with Spec, Pharo6.1x64 on Linux. >> > Do according to the SpecBooklet. >> > >> > Finished the fragment, and try do: >> > >> > ui := GUI_ListCourtCase new openWithSpec . -> #value was sent to nil. >> > >> > I look in a debugger and: >> > >> > openWithSpecLayout: aSpec >> > "Build the widget using the spec name provided as argument and >> display >> > it into a window" >> > >> > (window value notNil and: [ self needRebuild not ]) >> > ifTrue: [ "window != nil" >> > window value rebuildWithSpecLayout: aSpec ] >> > ifFalse: [ "If value = Nil --> send him a message ???" >> > window value: (self defaultWindowModelClass new model: >> self). >> > window value openWithSpecLayout: aSpec. >> > self takeKeyboardFocus ]. >> > >> > ^ window value >> >> >

March 4, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] my mistake on Spec?

by Yuriy Babah

Is it enough if I just attach it? I slightly changed the code, that leads to error: "DoesNotUndestand #plaintiffsTextInput" . Now I'm studying Help on Spec in SystemBrowser . 2018-03-04 15:23 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com>: > Hi Yuriy > > this is difficult to debug remotely. Do you have your code somewhere? > > Stef > > On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 8:41 AM, Yuriy Babah <babah.yuriy06(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi! > > I'm trying to write GUI element with Spec, Pharo6.1x64 on Linux. > > Do according to the SpecBooklet. > > > > Finished the fragment, and try do: > > > > ui := GUI_ListCourtCase new openWithSpec . -> #value was sent to nil. > > > > I look in a debugger and: > > > > openWithSpecLayout: aSpec > > "Build the widget using the spec name provided as argument and > display > > it into a window" > > > > (window value notNil and: [ self needRebuild not ]) > > ifTrue: [ "window != nil" > > window value rebuildWithSpecLayout: aSpec ] > > ifFalse: [ "If value = Nil --> send him a message ???" > > window value: (self defaultWindowModelClass new model: self). > > window value openWithSpecLayout: aSpec. > > self takeKeyboardFocus ]. > > > > ^ window value > >

March 4, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] my mistake on Spec?

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi Yuriy this is difficult to debug remotely. Do you have your code somewhere? Stef On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 8:41 AM, Yuriy Babah <babah.yuriy06(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi! > I'm trying to write GUI element with Spec, Pharo6.1x64 on Linux. > Do according to the SpecBooklet. > > Finished the fragment, and try do: > > ui := GUI_ListCourtCase new openWithSpec . -> #value was sent to nil. > > I look in a debugger and: > > openWithSpecLayout: aSpec > "Build the widget using the spec name provided as argument and display > it into a window" > > (window value notNil and: [ self needRebuild not ]) > ifTrue: [ "window != nil" > window value rebuildWithSpecLayout: aSpec ] > ifFalse: [ "If value = Nil --> send him a message ???" > window value: (self defaultWindowModelClass new model: self). > window value openWithSpecLayout: aSpec. > self takeKeyboardFocus ]. > > ^ window value

March 4, 2018

Looking for names for the booklet collection

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi I would like to make a distinction between booklet on Pharo technologies (Smacc, Voyage, Scraping ...) and the booklets more oriented towards teaching something with pharo (building an interpreter, a reflective language...) Right now we have The Pharo Booklet Collection. And I'm looking for two names the Pharo academic booklet collection ? and the Pharo technology booklet collection ? Stef

March 4, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

by Stephane Ducasse

But the building process is working and we can incrementally create custom images. And this is what we will use in the future but we will not build the image that suits everybody needs. Stef On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 1:08 PM, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > Le 04/03/2018 Ã 11:13, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >> >> In our community, Pavel is the person that has the bigger experience on >> shrinking process images. I followed his work for years and I know the >> fragility of the process. Basically each new addition/removal was breaking >> it and needing dependency tracking, etc. Now is the opposite: you just add >> what you want, and you are sure the resulting image is a) healthy and b) >> identical when running. >> > > Indeed it is fragile. And given the latest image size, not sure it could > lead to satisfactory results. > > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu > > >

March 4, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

by Stephane Ducasse

> > > It looks like this topic comes and goes since 20 years: new features added, > image growth then/or it becomes hard to unload ; on Squeak then now with > Pharo at a much higher rate. > > We all know about the right approach (GNU Smalltalk, CUIS Smalltalk), I will not comment on that and suggest you to code with such systems. but it > is not the road chosen with Pharo and it is becoming extremely uninteresting > for me to code on DrGeo now. Fair. Do not do it. > So far I fell ashame to ship end user > application with a 50MB DrGeo image, knowing only 10% has purpose related to > DrGeo domain. When situation improves, motivation may come back. For this > same reason and other, I turned to Python for a planed programming course to > mid high school students. Good luck. I was teaching python to my son and I have to explain to him that a set cannot contain a set or any object, that length is not a message and plenty of other nice things. > > How the image is considered in the Pharo team? A kind of sacred place, > where stuff are added following a few guidelines (you will not duplicate > features but replace/imprive/whatever -- aka funny shortcut mess, you will > make your code unloadable, etc...) or just like a forum where teams add > feature according to projects or vision. Hilaire if you believe that we are a bunch a morons this is up to you. Now we do pay a lot of attention to our system but our ressources are scarce and we try to satisfy many different concerns. And we do not get that much help from people. You see doing something real and of good quality takes a lot of time and energy. And I think that we are successful. It does not mean that we cannot improve. > Sorry to discuss these topics again, really don't want but still need to > share a few thoughts. I would prefer that you share some code and Pull Requests that always the same complains. But you can. Stef

March 4, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

by Stephane Ducasse

Hilaire It is up to you to give a real try. 1) Did you look for REAL at our infrastructure? Because you can take the bootstrapped image and change our build scripts. It took us may years to produce the loading scripts and this is the future. In Pharo 7 we have the possibility to have a core and several images. 2) Now I see you complaining but you can also help we never rejected a fix that make the system more modular. And we worked a lot to make it modular and IT IS MUCH MORE MODULAR. Now we do not have the energy to invest in building different image based on the core. So if you that need to not do it then why should we? 3) We will start a new reduction of the bootstrap core with Carolina PhD and you see we will not keep it for us (while we could). We want to have Pharo running on IoT devices. 4) We are starting to remove duplicated tools: Nautilus will go out, EyeInspector too. Old text model and widgets. Now again I personnally do not really care if Pharo has one or two mb more. 5) even on my old iPhone 53 mb is not that large. But I want a much smaller core and we will get there. 6) You see we introduce Athens in particular for Moose and DrGeo. Personnally I do not use at all Athens-Cairo. So this is funny how people react. Stef On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 3:21 PM, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > Le 02/03/2018 Ã 22:52, Marcus Denker a Ã©crit : >> >> >> we should again do some analysis where space is goingâ¦ the Pharo7 download >> is now 38MB (the image, decompressed). > > > Situation improved :) Remember P3 was just above 20 MB > >> >> There are things to look for: >> >> 1) wasted space due to not thinking about memory and just âhaving itâ. >> >> Of course some of it are things like duplications (we now have 2 browsers, >> 2 inspectors, >> 2 debuggersâ¦ time to clean up a bitâ¦). >> >> Then every test we add takes space, every âhelp topicâ, every feature... > > > It looks like this topic comes and goes since 20 years: new features added, > image growth then/or it becomes hard to unload ; on Squeak then now with > Pharo at a much higher rate. > > We all know about the right approach (GNU Smalltalk, CUIS Smalltalk), but it > is not the road chosen with Pharo and it is becoming extremely uninteresting > for me to code on DrGeo now. So far I fell ashame to ship end user > application with a 50MB DrGeo image, knowing only 10% has purpose related to > DrGeo domain. When situation improves, motivation may come back. For this > same reason and other, I turned to Python for a planed programming course to > mid high school students. > >> >> But of course sometimes being able to invest memory into a better system >> can be important, too. >> Not all growth in memory is negativ if you can afford it. >> >> I always like to play the game to think âwhat would they have done in 1978 >> if they had this amount >> of memory in even a $5 machine?" Of course one can go very quickly in the >> wrong direction, but > > > Very likely not that much. May be the wonders came because of the hight > constraints. > > >> nevertheless: sometimes it is really worth to think about âspending >> memoryâ to buy abstraction. >> (especially a there are counter measuresâ¦ we under-utilise both >> compression and disk storage) > > Helps could (should?) be file based, and maybe other stuff I don't know. > > How the image is considered in the Pharo team? A kind of sacred place, > where stuff are added following a few guidelines (you will not duplicate > features but replace/imprive/whatever -- aka funny shortcut mess, you will > make your code unloadable, etc...) or just like a forum where teams add > feature according to projects or vision. > > Sorry to discuss these topics again, really don't want but still need to > share a few thoughts. > >> >> 2) wasted space that is just not needed. e.g. there is issue >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/21172/ >> That we have some huge strings to init unicode. Do we need them? >> >> 3) Memory leaks, bit they are more for the case when the system is running >> for a while. >> > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu > > >

March 4, 2018