- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] [OT] Reminder about quoting/top-posting

by Sean P. DeNigris

Esteban A. Maringolo wrote > Can I ask for more trimming of the quoted text and/or emails replied to? +1. Always good and courteous advice. ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

April 14, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] QRCode - A thank you note

by Sean P. DeNigris

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote > Thanks Jochen, thanks everyone. Great report! Thanks, Sven :) I was thinking in the same direction - that my posts always seem to focus on our work moving forward, and I rarely take the time to do a nice writeup of successful applications like these, of which I've had many. I was also thinking that many of the recent animated discussions are signs of health in our community because: a) They seem to often involve people that are not regular posters to the list, signaling a potential widening of buy-in b) While our community values constructive feedback (even if it's very direct), it also fiercely protects people who have given us a lot (as evidenced by the overwhelming response to a recent trolling on another ML) c) Maybe most important: they are often about code and infrastructure that didn't even *exist* a few years ago. For example, now we complain about breaking builds; I'm sure we all remember not long ago when there was *no* CI at all to complain about! It seems amazing that the system is as stable as it is considering everything we overhauled/invented, including: streams, http, file system, browser (2x), git support, FFI, changes, catalog, the compiler, GTâ¦ For myself, I am clear that any instability is a small price to pay for the power and hope that Pharo offers. Every time I drop out of our live, direct, turetles-all-the-way down into a Ruby script, command line, or configuration file, this is proven again. All we have to do is hang on! It is a well known principle that it often seem most difficult just before success and the difference is who quits and who doesn't :) ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

April 14, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Stephane Ducasse

Hilaire I will not start to argue. The bootstrap is in production since the beginning of Pharo 70. Now building multiple different images from it is another story. Stef On Sat, Apr 14, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > Le 13/04/2018 Ã 19:49, Stephane Ducasse a Ã©crit : >> >> We know where we go (we have a roadmap) and this is always the same >> and we are getting there. Tell me one smalltalk that is bootstrapped. > > I don't see we are there yet. At least from my humble point of view the > bootstrap still looks like WIP. > > > Hilaire > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu > > >

April 14, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] IDEA: I will record an Iceberg cast (an "Icecast" ; ) ) every tuesday

by Stephane Ducasse

Use big fonts. And add a title: "commiting a change" Stef On Sat, Apr 14, 2018 at 9:23 AM, Richard O'Keefe <raoknz(a)gmail.com> wrote: > You hero, sir. > > > On 14 April 2018 at 19:17, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> hi, >> >> The idea is to show a small example of something and to answer questions. >> >> First âIcecast" will be next Tuesday. >> You can send your questions in the iceberg channel or in list. >> >> cheers, >> Esteban >> >> ps: Is âevery tuesdayâ until I run out of things to show or time ;) > >

April 14, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] IDEA: I will record an Iceberg cast (an "Icecast" ; ) ) every tuesday

by Alexandre Bergel

Excellent!! Alexandre http://bergel.eu > Le 14 avr. 2018 Ã 09:17, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > hi, > > The idea is to show a small example of something and to answer questions. > > First âIcecast" will be next Tuesday. > You can send your questions in the iceberg channel or in list. > > cheers, > Esteban > > ps: Is âevery tuesdayâ until I run out of things to show or time ;)

April 14, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Thierry Goubier

Le sam. 14 avr. 2018 10:46, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> a Ã©crit : > Le 13/04/2018 Ã 19:49, Stephane Ducasse a Ã©crit : > > We know where we go (we have a roadmap) and this is always the same > > and we are getting there. Tell me one smalltalk that is bootstrapped. > I don't see we are there yet. At least from my humble point of view the > bootstrap still looks like WIP. > However, for pragmatic software deployments, working out of the minimal image is a nice improvement. The best of both world: full featured when needed, concise when needed. Thierry > > Hilaire > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu > > > >

April 14, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Ben Coman

On 14 April 2018 at 01:52, Richard Sargent <richard.sargent@ gemtalksystems.com> wrote: > On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > >> Sometime Pharo frustrate me a lot, I felt it too in the message from >> Benoit, in the other hand its community is very kind and always helpful. So >> it is not about blaming people. >> >> In my opinion, there are too much things pushed at the same time in >> Pharo. You can't push too much things into the box, then when people >> complain about it to be overfull and bugged request them to fix it, I don't >> think it can work that way, at this scale of changes. In the other, this is >> not really what happen here, I very likely exaggerate this trait but you >> get the idea. >> >> For example, I developed DrGeo for several years on P3. Why sticking to >> P3? It gave me the opportunity to fine craft DrGeo to be stable and >> predictable in the way it behaves to its end users, and a lot of releases >> occurred. When I started to look at porting to newer image last June, I >> realized DrGeo will become unstable and oversized, so can of turning from >> A+ grade to a D- grade, just by the magic of porting it. My plan was to >> port it during the summer to get it ready end of August to deploy in local >> schools, it does not happen. And I can write it: it is s-u-p-e-r >> f-r-u-s-t-r-a-t-i-n-g. Is it normal when porting code? I don't know, I am a >> casual developer, but it makes developing well crafted and reliable Pharo >> application a bit expensive to my taste. To such a scale that I started to >> evaluate alternative to Pharo as the underneath system, idea I finally gave >> up after several weeks of evaluations. All in all I still have this felling >> Pharo is not developer friendly, I fell DrGeo is not secure there. See when >> porting to newer image, I end up using P7-32bits alpha on Linux because it >> was the most comfortable situation comparing to P5/P6/P6.1, is it not >> strange? >> >> In the other hand this struggle occurs at image change. Ok, may be it is >> a pattern specific to Smalltalk. Is it the case with commercial Smalltalk >> vendors? > > > Hi Hilaire, > > Thanks for articulating this. I've been mostly watching Pharo rather than > using it, so I haven't been affected by the changes between versions. With > respect to commercial products versus Pharo *at the present time*, I > think we have different driving forces shaping things. > > In my opinion, VA Smalltalk has been the one most strongly driven by the > importance of backward compatibility and ease of migration to a new > version. VisualWorks has been pretty good about providing a path forward > with minimal pain, although the more major version numbers difference, the > harder it is to transition. Likewise, GemStone/S has a strong emphasis on > keeping our customers' existing applications running with minimal changes. > > That being said, I have no doubt that the earliest versions of all these > products had substantial incompatibilities between versions. I am also > pretty sure there is a threshold beyond which the adoption of Pharo in > business applications will compel Pharo development to facilitate migration > to newer versions and to better maintain API compatibility. [And that may > be simply because, as more businesses rely on Pharo, they will be > financially supporting its development.] > You would expect this be a natural progression as more companies supporting such priorities join the consortium. The corollary is that its better the take greater leaps earlier when there is a greater percentage of Innovators and Early Adopters who are willing to ride some rough edges for the benefit they gain *now*. When the Majority arrive, such changes would be more disruptive to perception of Pharo i.e. more opinons, less care. cheers -ben > > A second consideration is the size of the product teams (measured in > full-time staffing). I think the commercial products had a much larger > staffing in their early days than Pharo has even now. And I think the > consequence of that is that the changes between v1 and v2 or between v2 and > v3 of the commercial products *may* have been comparable to the > differences between Pharo v(n) and v(n+3). > > > Richard > > >> >> Hilaire >> >> -- >> Dr. Geo >> http://drgeo.eu >> >> >> >> >

April 14, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Hilaire

Le 13/04/2018 Ã 19:49, Stephane Ducasse a Ã©critÂ : > We know where we go (we have a roadmap) and this is always the same > and we are getting there. Tell me one smalltalk that is bootstrapped. I don't see we are there yet. At least from my humble point of view the bootstrap still looks like WIP. Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

April 14, 2018

Recover question at startup

by Hilaire

Hi, When I build DrGeo app against P7, then test it on a *different* computer used to build it, I have this dialog message at start up: "Its seems your last Pharo session existed without saving some code. Do you want to recover it?" As far as I understand it is related to Epicea, as I don't I need it in appication built, what is the way to properly unactivate it? Can it be uninstalled may be? Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

April 14, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] IDEA: I will record an Iceberg cast (an "Icecast" ; ) ) every tuesday

by Richard O'Keefe

You hero, sir. On 14 April 2018 at 19:17, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > hi, > > The idea is to show a small example of something and to answer questions. > > First âIcecast" will be next Tuesday. > You can send your questions in the iceberg channel or in list. > > cheers, > Esteban > > ps: Is âevery tuesdayâ until I run out of things to show or time ;) >

April 14, 2018