- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Some facts and figures about pharo gaining momentum?

by Andrei Stebakov

Thanks, Dimitris for your take on the popularity of Pharo and languages in general. I totally agree with most of it, especially when it comes to choosing a language for your personal project or a small startup, you just start with the library that has most of the features you are looking for making sure that the performance is adequate for your needs. When it comes to big corporations they are much less agile in switching their technology and they consider it as a big investment with many other factors to consider. The size of the language community plays an important role since nobody wants to invest in a language that may go extinct in a little while. Also if the library of your interest has a low "bus factor' I.e the number of contributors, it's a risky investment as the lib may get abandoned shorty. One of the biggest factors which derives from the community size is the number of developers on the market. Companies go with Java mostly because of the abundance of devs on the market (of course the libraries play a very important role here as well). I think Pharo has made a good strategic move to use git as its major VCS, hopefully all projects will move there and it will gain in popularity even more because of that. I know some companies transitioned from VisualWorks smalltalk to Java mainly because of unwieldy and archaic VCS that goes with it (there were also concerns about the ability of Cincom to maintain the language in the long term). Also the ability of the language to be general purpose to cover many domains like you mentioned plays a very important role since today the company may only consider it as a platform to create desctop applications but tomorrow when they switch to microservises they want to continue using it for web development. The broader the range the better. On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 18:15 Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Pharo success in in the website, twitter and youtube channel. > > Popularity wise the clear indication is community, I joined Pharo back in > 2011 when it was already 3 years old and we had only one active mailing > list , pharo-dev, pharo-users were practically unused. Then we got so many > new people we had to move to pharo-users and keep pharo-dev only for the > code going inside pharo standard distribution , then we grown even more and > we started using Slack. Then I had the idea to move us to Discord, our > Discord server ended up having way more channels than Slack. So we are > definetly growing , how much is the real hard thing to determine. > > Even if you take Github to account you will have to ignore all forks, > because many Github users, including me, tend to use forks as mere > bookmarks. So one's forks the project and ends never using it but the fork > will also report commits that coming from the original repo. Coding like > anything else in live is too complex to describe in numbers and stats. > > I think the best way to sell any language is to do your research, the > person or people who you want to convince, you have to know what they are > interested about, web dev, databases, embeded computing etc. Instead of > stats provided them with libraries and documentation. Anyone come making a > super cool project but usually for a developers it far important to know > that the "cool" language someone else is praising actually has the > libraries you may need. > > I for example don't care at all for web dev, I don't even like it, or > databases, but I love graphics and sound. So I won't care for Seaside, > PharoJS etc. But Pharo Sound and Woden is two projects that are very > interesting to me. Like a recent video publiced by Pharo in youtube about > people using Woden (a 3d graphics engines made in Pharo) to do VR. If I > never used Pharo before that definetly would tempt it, taking into account > that VR is not even that widely available even with most popular languages. > > Take for example Ruby, none really cared that no company made an amazing > project in the language, what they cared was that a solo dev decided to > make that amazing web dev library called Ruby On Rails and then , BOOM, > Ruby exploded in popularity. Python's also popularity is purely on its > library set solely, third party. Java is not the rule , it actually the > exemption , merely for the practical fact that very few language can afford > support from big companies. Python's creator did not even intend to make a > programming language, its just made it to automate command line tasks > because he was not so much into the Bash alternatives. He tried to even > stop them from using it as C++ alternative, too late, Python is the > standard in the scientific community. Basic started as just a language to > teach kids and then it took over the world via home computers. People > making pro apps in Basic, ridiculous, hello Visual Basic. Smalltalk started > mainly as research project. Lisp as a purely theoretical mathematical > concept. > > So my advice is not to worry much about it, just find the libraries that > people need in Pharo and that will be far more than enough to convince them > to take the plunge. Available project in any language are nothing more than > a tiny fraction of the language's potential, the big hot potatoes are > performance (none likes slow code), libraries (everyone is lazy) and > documentation (none likes to decipher other's people code). > > People don't hide the fact that they use Pharo , afterall that's the whole > idea of this mailing list to share your success and failures with Pharo and > ask questions about it. > > But you don't mean much to sell a language , afterall one thing all > language popularity websites agree on is that almost 50% of the code out > there is written for tiny project in languages none cares about. I am > talking about languages like Pharo that end up having a popularity way > bellow 0.01% . There is a reason we have thousands of languages to choose > from and it ain't popular projects ;) > > On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 10:01 PM Andrei Stebakov <lispercat(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Thanks, Kilon for such an insightful answer. Lots of stuff to think about. >> I guess what I was waiting for is some success stories (which we already >> have on the website), but coming from you guys as consultants saying >> something like: "oh, this year I have more projects than last year" or "now >> my network of Smalltalk aware customers is that much bigger" or "a friend >> of mine who works in company XYZ says that after some consideration they >> started to use Pharo for micro services instead of Java". >> I know, it's hard to measure the success level in numbers (other than the >> example you gave with github stats), more like the word of mouth kind of >> thing. >> Another metrix could be the subscription rate for this mailing list, >> since chances are that most of new Pharo users would be on it and the >> acceleration of that rate would definitely say something about Pharo >> success. Wondering if we have access to that data. >> Thanks for your insight! >> >> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 13:20 kilon.alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> You can check the github repos, github allows you to browse project >>> repos per >>> language. You could probably automate that from Pharo, use the Github API >>> like Iceberg does fetch the names of all projects using smalltalk >>> language >>> and check to see which ones have commits the last year and then make a >>> nice >>> graph using Roassal. You could do that also periodically to track the >>> growth >>> in popularity. >>> >>> Github is the center place for everything open source, Pharo and Squeak >>> are >>> more tricky because they each have their own hosting sites squeaksource >>> for >>> Squeak and smalltalkhub for Pharo but I think most modern Pharo projects >>> seem to have made the jump to github too. >>> >>> But even with Smalltalkhub there should be some API lurking in there >>> although I suspect it will be undocumented and a lot trickier to get it >>> working. >>> >>> Another source is Google trends, but I dont think google search is very >>> reliable because smalltalk is a regular word that is not 99.99% of the >>> time >>> used to mean the programming language, so you will have to use terms like >>> "smalltalk programming" (this is the primary method that the TIOBE INDEX >>> is >>> using for all its languages) but even that wont be very reliable. >>> >>> Technically speaking language popularity is a can of worms, there is a >>> huge >>> disagreement even which are the TOP 10 most popular programming languages >>> right now. Even the TOP 3 can widely fluctuate. So as you can imagine >>> keeping track of something as unpopular as smalltalk is going to be >>> quite a >>> challange. >>> >>> For example "everyone" seem to agree that there is very little reason >>> nowdays to use C over C++, cause "C++ is a much better C with objects" , >>> on >>> the other hand language popularity websites seem to disagree with >>> "everyone" >>> because not only they have C in top 10 but in many cases its more popular >>> than C++ and to put more insult to the sin they also show it shrinking >>> way >>> slower than C++ in popularity. Such an example is TIOBE >>> >>> https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ >>> https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/c/ >>> https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/cplusplus/ >>> >>> If we cannot even agree with C vs C++ imagine Smalltalk vs The REST. >>> >>> But I think Github API is a good place to start. The worst place to >>> start is >>> asking people for opinion and reading blog posts , hackernews, twitter, >>> facebook or whatever else "hipster" thing, especially stackoverflow and >>> medium. >>> >>> In the end language popularity is a hopeless cause. In theory everyone >>> cares, in practice, none does. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>> >>>

July 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Some facts and figures about pharo gaining momentum?

by Dimitris Chloupis

Pharo success in in the website, twitter and youtube channel. Popularity wise the clear indication is community, I joined Pharo back in 2011 when it was already 3 years old and we had only one active mailing list , pharo-dev, pharo-users were practically unused. Then we got so many new people we had to move to pharo-users and keep pharo-dev only for the code going inside pharo standard distribution , then we grown even more and we started using Slack. Then I had the idea to move us to Discord, our Discord server ended up having way more channels than Slack. So we are definetly growing , how much is the real hard thing to determine. Even if you take Github to account you will have to ignore all forks, because many Github users, including me, tend to use forks as mere bookmarks. So one's forks the project and ends never using it but the fork will also report commits that coming from the original repo. Coding like anything else in live is too complex to describe in numbers and stats. I think the best way to sell any language is to do your research, the person or people who you want to convince, you have to know what they are interested about, web dev, databases, embeded computing etc. Instead of stats provided them with libraries and documentation. Anyone come making a super cool project but usually for a developers it far important to know that the "cool" language someone else is praising actually has the libraries you may need. I for example don't care at all for web dev, I don't even like it, or databases, but I love graphics and sound. So I won't care for Seaside, PharoJS etc. But Pharo Sound and Woden is two projects that are very interesting to me. Like a recent video publiced by Pharo in youtube about people using Woden (a 3d graphics engines made in Pharo) to do VR. If I never used Pharo before that definetly would tempt it, taking into account that VR is not even that widely available even with most popular languages. Take for example Ruby, none really cared that no company made an amazing project in the language, what they cared was that a solo dev decided to make that amazing web dev library called Ruby On Rails and then , BOOM, Ruby exploded in popularity. Python's also popularity is purely on its library set solely, third party. Java is not the rule , it actually the exemption , merely for the practical fact that very few language can afford support from big companies. Python's creator did not even intend to make a programming language, its just made it to automate command line tasks because he was not so much into the Bash alternatives. He tried to even stop them from using it as C++ alternative, too late, Python is the standard in the scientific community. Basic started as just a language to teach kids and then it took over the world via home computers. People making pro apps in Basic, ridiculous, hello Visual Basic. Smalltalk started mainly as research project. Lisp as a purely theoretical mathematical concept. So my advice is not to worry much about it, just find the libraries that people need in Pharo and that will be far more than enough to convince them to take the plunge. Available project in any language are nothing more than a tiny fraction of the language's potential, the big hot potatoes are performance (none likes slow code), libraries (everyone is lazy) and documentation (none likes to decipher other's people code). People don't hide the fact that they use Pharo , afterall that's the whole idea of this mailing list to share your success and failures with Pharo and ask questions about it. But you don't mean much to sell a language , afterall one thing all language popularity websites agree on is that almost 50% of the code out there is written for tiny project in languages none cares about. I am talking about languages like Pharo that end up having a popularity way bellow 0.01% . There is a reason we have thousands of languages to choose from and it ain't popular projects ;) On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 10:01 PM Andrei Stebakov <lispercat(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks, Kilon for such an insightful answer. Lots of stuff to think about. > I guess what I was waiting for is some success stories (which we already > have on the website), but coming from you guys as consultants saying > something like: "oh, this year I have more projects than last year" or "now > my network of Smalltalk aware customers is that much bigger" or "a friend > of mine who works in company XYZ says that after some consideration they > started to use Pharo for micro services instead of Java". > I know, it's hard to measure the success level in numbers (other than the > example you gave with github stats), more like the word of mouth kind of > thing. > Another metrix could be the subscription rate for this mailing list, since > chances are that most of new Pharo users would be on it and the > acceleration of that rate would definitely say something about Pharo > success. Wondering if we have access to that data. > Thanks for your insight! > > On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 13:20 kilon.alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> You can check the github repos, github allows you to browse project repos >> per >> language. You could probably automate that from Pharo, use the Github API >> like Iceberg does fetch the names of all projects using smalltalk language >> and check to see which ones have commits the last year and then make a >> nice >> graph using Roassal. You could do that also periodically to track the >> growth >> in popularity. >> >> Github is the center place for everything open source, Pharo and Squeak >> are >> more tricky because they each have their own hosting sites squeaksource >> for >> Squeak and smalltalkhub for Pharo but I think most modern Pharo projects >> seem to have made the jump to github too. >> >> But even with Smalltalkhub there should be some API lurking in there >> although I suspect it will be undocumented and a lot trickier to get it >> working. >> >> Another source is Google trends, but I dont think google search is very >> reliable because smalltalk is a regular word that is not 99.99% of the >> time >> used to mean the programming language, so you will have to use terms like >> "smalltalk programming" (this is the primary method that the TIOBE INDEX >> is >> using for all its languages) but even that wont be very reliable. >> >> Technically speaking language popularity is a can of worms, there is a >> huge >> disagreement even which are the TOP 10 most popular programming languages >> right now. Even the TOP 3 can widely fluctuate. So as you can imagine >> keeping track of something as unpopular as smalltalk is going to be quite >> a >> challange. >> >> For example "everyone" seem to agree that there is very little reason >> nowdays to use C over C++, cause "C++ is a much better C with objects" , >> on >> the other hand language popularity websites seem to disagree with >> "everyone" >> because not only they have C in top 10 but in many cases its more popular >> than C++ and to put more insult to the sin they also show it shrinking way >> slower than C++ in popularity. Such an example is TIOBE >> >> https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ >> https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/c/ >> https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/cplusplus/ >> >> If we cannot even agree with C vs C++ imagine Smalltalk vs The REST. >> >> But I think Github API is a good place to start. The worst place to start >> is >> asking people for opinion and reading blog posts , hackernews, twitter, >> facebook or whatever else "hipster" thing, especially stackoverflow and >> medium. >> >> In the end language popularity is a hopeless cause. In theory everyone >> cares, in practice, none does. >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> >>

July 5, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] [ANN] New Academic Partner: ENIT

by Alexandre Bergel

Congrat Cedric for your position! Alexandre > On Jul 4, 2018, at 1:33 PM, CÃ©drick BÃ©ler <cdrick65(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > First of all, thanks for the introduction Marcus. > > Just that people know, and to introduce myself, Iâm CÃ©drik BÃ©ler, associate professor at ENIT (Nation Engineering School of Tarbes). > > ENIT is a French generalist engineering school in Tarbes (southwest of France). > > <PastedGraphic-5.png> > > Iâm very happy that ENIT is now part of the consortium as academic member. > > Pharo and Smalltalk have been a huge source of inspiration for me during my PHD back in 2004/2008, so Iâm really happy to have a more concrete participation now. > > My objectives are of two kind: > (1) use Pharo as a digital workbench to teach engineering students and experiment ICT trends like IoT (PharoThings/Pi3/PiZero/ESP32), AI, web applications (client/server, MQTT, API usage with Zinc, web scrapping with XPATH and Zinc and Neoâ¦). > (2) use Pharo for my research to prototype Cyber-Physical Systems (mainly in the field of predictive maintenance) and Distributed Information Systems (called Singular Information System). > > Iâll give a talk at ESUG as an experience feedback for point (1). > > In the future, Iâll present our research development around CPSâs. > > Iâm also interested in developing a local user group. Some students get interested. In Biarritz, ESTIA, I also have some common interest in developing such CPS researches/platforms. If people from this area are using Pharo/Smalltalk, please do not hesitate to contact me. > > To conclude, Iâm interested in plenty of Pharo sub-projects like (non exhaustive list): > - The web/network stack (Zinc, Zodiac, Neo, XPathâ¦) > - PharoThings > - Bloc/Brick/Roassal > - Wooden3D (VR and AR) > - Workflow > - Distributed networking (opportunistic, MESH, discovery, â¦) > > See you soon over there, > > Cheers, > > CÃ©drick BÃ©ler > ENIT associate professor > Discord: cedreek#8178 > > >> Le 4 juil. 2018 Ã 11:27, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> a Ã©crit : >> >> [ANN] New Academic Partner: ENIT >> >> The Pharo Consortium is very happy to announce that ENIT has joined as a Academic Partner. >> >> About >> - ENIT Ecole Nationale d'ingÃ©nieurs de Tarbes: http://www.enit.fr >> - Pharo Consortium: http://consortium.pharo.org >> >> The goal of the Pharo Consortium is to allow companies and institutions to >> support the ongoing development and future of Pharo. >> >> Individuals can support Pharo via the Pharo Association: >> >> http://association.pharo.org >

July 5, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Some facts and figures about pharo gaining momentum?

by Andrei Stebakov

Thanks, Kilon for such an insightful answer. Lots of stuff to think about. I guess what I was waiting for is some success stories (which we already have on the website), but coming from you guys as consultants saying something like: "oh, this year I have more projects than last year" or "now my network of Smalltalk aware customers is that much bigger" or "a friend of mine who works in company XYZ says that after some consideration they started to use Pharo for micro services instead of Java". I know, it's hard to measure the success level in numbers (other than the example you gave with github stats), more like the word of mouth kind of thing. Another metrix could be the subscription rate for this mailing list, since chances are that most of new Pharo users would be on it and the acceleration of that rate would definitely say something about Pharo success. Wondering if we have access to that data. Thanks for your insight! On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 13:20 kilon.alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > You can check the github repos, github allows you to browse project repos > per > language. You could probably automate that from Pharo, use the Github API > like Iceberg does fetch the names of all projects using smalltalk language > and check to see which ones have commits the last year and then make a nice > graph using Roassal. You could do that also periodically to track the > growth > in popularity. > > Github is the center place for everything open source, Pharo and Squeak are > more tricky because they each have their own hosting sites squeaksource for > Squeak and smalltalkhub for Pharo but I think most modern Pharo projects > seem to have made the jump to github too. > > But even with Smalltalkhub there should be some API lurking in there > although I suspect it will be undocumented and a lot trickier to get it > working. > > Another source is Google trends, but I dont think google search is very > reliable because smalltalk is a regular word that is not 99.99% of the time > used to mean the programming language, so you will have to use terms like > "smalltalk programming" (this is the primary method that the TIOBE INDEX is > using for all its languages) but even that wont be very reliable. > > Technically speaking language popularity is a can of worms, there is a huge > disagreement even which are the TOP 10 most popular programming languages > right now. Even the TOP 3 can widely fluctuate. So as you can imagine > keeping track of something as unpopular as smalltalk is going to be quite a > challange. > > For example "everyone" seem to agree that there is very little reason > nowdays to use C over C++, cause "C++ is a much better C with objects" , on > the other hand language popularity websites seem to disagree with > "everyone" > because not only they have C in top 10 but in many cases its more popular > than C++ and to put more insult to the sin they also show it shrinking way > slower than C++ in popularity. Such an example is TIOBE > > https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ > https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/c/ > https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/cplusplus/ > > If we cannot even agree with C vs C++ imagine Smalltalk vs The REST. > > But I think Github API is a good place to start. The worst place to start > is > asking people for opinion and reading blog posts , hackernews, twitter, > facebook or whatever else "hipster" thing, especially stackoverflow and > medium. > > In the end language popularity is a hopeless cause. In theory everyone > cares, in practice, none does. > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > >

July 5, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Some facts and figures about pharo gaining momentum?

by kilon.alios

You can check the github repos, github allows you to browse project repos per language. You could probably automate that from Pharo, use the Github API like Iceberg does fetch the names of all projects using smalltalk language and check to see which ones have commits the last year and then make a nice graph using Roassal. You could do that also periodically to track the growth in popularity. Github is the center place for everything open source, Pharo and Squeak are more tricky because they each have their own hosting sites squeaksource for Squeak and smalltalkhub for Pharo but I think most modern Pharo projects seem to have made the jump to github too. But even with Smalltalkhub there should be some API lurking in there although I suspect it will be undocumented and a lot trickier to get it working. Another source is Google trends, but I dont think google search is very reliable because smalltalk is a regular word that is not 99.99% of the time used to mean the programming language, so you will have to use terms like "smalltalk programming" (this is the primary method that the TIOBE INDEX is using for all its languages) but even that wont be very reliable. Technically speaking language popularity is a can of worms, there is a huge disagreement even which are the TOP 10 most popular programming languages right now. Even the TOP 3 can widely fluctuate. So as you can imagine keeping track of something as unpopular as smalltalk is going to be quite a challange. For example "everyone" seem to agree that there is very little reason nowdays to use C over C++, cause "C++ is a much better C with objects" , on the other hand language popularity websites seem to disagree with "everyone" because not only they have C in top 10 but in many cases its more popular than C++ and to put more insult to the sin they also show it shrinking way slower than C++ in popularity. Such an example is TIOBE https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/c/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/cplusplus/ If we cannot even agree with C vs C++ imagine Smalltalk vs The REST. But I think Github API is a good place to start. The worst place to start is asking people for opinion and reading blog posts , hackernews, twitter, facebook or whatever else "hipster" thing, especially stackoverflow and medium. In the end language popularity is a hopeless cause. In theory everyone cares, in practice, none does. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

July 5, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Its too hard to contribute to the Iceberg wiki

by kilon.alios

Another solution is to clone the wiki, it offers its github link and then make a new repo for the wiki alone and upload the files which are regular md files (github markdown). The good news is that you wont be losing any of the conveniences because github offers a markdown editor with live previews , the only you will be losing will be the automatic table of contents but that can be hosted as a seperate md file. I have done this for creating a Wiki for Pharo you can find the example here https://github.com/kilon/PharoWiki/blob/master/README.md This can also be implemented as a branch to a project, usually the branch is named "gh-pages" but I dont think there is a restriction you can host the wiki then as a website which will be available using a link very similar to <username>.github.io or orgname if its a organisation. If it's done this way you and everyone else will enjoy all the privileges of a regular github repo. Because is markdown it's also compatible with gitlab and gitbooks , gitbook can take a wiki and easily turn it to a book with export to pdf etc. Is just a matter of setup, the default way of github wikis is not to give you access to such advanced features and instead prioritize ease of use. If you want full nuclear power then a regular github repo is the way to go. Of course "advanced mode" will give you also easy access to using Pillar or whatever you want to use. Frankly PR seems a bit overkill for a wiki, becoming a contributor to the wiki repo would make your life a lot easier with direct access to editing the md files online without the whole trouble of git pull, push, pull requests etc. But of course all that is up to Iceberg devs I started Pharo wiki as an experiment and it worked much better than I expected and of course far better than a regular Github wiki. Ease, straightforward and super flexible. I am more a Gitlab user nowdays but its the same workflow there too. Tim Mackinnon wrote > Ok - my love affair with Github ends at the wiki - what a load of $%$%^$%â¦ > there is no sane and easy way to fork a wiki, make some changes and then > submit a PR. (how the hell did they get into that state?). > > Can we agree to scrap the wiki Iceberg wiki and just have a longer > readme.md > (with sections of the current wiki?). Or if someone can explain easy > instructions for both me (as a contributor) and the admins of iceberg then > Iâm all earsâ¦. > > If not - Iâll submit a PR with my subtle changes to the readme. > > Tim Quoted from: http://forum.world.st/Its-too-hard-to-contribute-to-the-Iceberg-wiki-tp5080… -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

July 5, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Need help to get a list of Pharo projects with tests

by Gabriel Cotelli

1. https://github.com/ba-st/Buoy 185 tests 2. https://github.com/ba-st/RenoirSt 306 tests 3. https://github.com/ba-st/Willow 501 tests 4. https://travis-ci.org/ba-st/HighchartsSt 46833 tests 5. https://github.com/ba-st/Willow-Bootstrap 441 tests 6. https://github.com/ba-st/Aconcagua 619 tests 7. https://github.com/ba-st/Willow-Mixpanel 23 tests On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 11:24 AM Julien <julien.delplanque(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hello Pharo community, > > I am currently working on detecting rotten tests in Pharo projects. > > Rotten tests are defined as test methods containing one or many assertions > in their source code but one or many of these assertions are not executed > when the test is run. > To have more details on the subject, you can check the research report > related to our first definition of these tests freely available on HAL [1]. > > In this context, we built a test analyser which, given a Pharo package > containing tests, finds rotten tests [2]. This analyser is still under > development. > > We would like to extend the experiment of our research report [1] and to > analyse more projects in order to get a better understanding of rotten > tests. > > To do that, we need your help. You can help us in two ways: > 1. Answer this email with links to one or many open-source Pharo projects > containing tests. > 2. If you want, provide us private projects or, at least, run our analyser > on these private projects and give us back the results. > > If you want to help us with the second option, send me a mail directly at > julien.delplanque(a)inria.fr. > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > > Julien Delplanque > > Links: > [1]: https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01819302 > [2]: https://github.com/juliendelplanque/RottenTestsFinder/ > > --- > Julien Delplanque > Doctorant Ã lâUniversitÃ© de Lille > http://juliendelplanque.be/phd.html > Equipe Rmod, Inria > BÃ¢timent B 40, Avenue Halley 59650 Villeneuve d'Ascq > NumÃ©ro de tÃ©lÃ©phone: +333 59 35 86 40 > >

July 5, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Need help to get a list of Pharo projects with tests

by Serge Stinckwich

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 3:24 PM Julien <julien.delplanque(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hello Pharo community, > > I am currently working on detecting rotten tests in Pharo projects. > > Rotten tests are defined as test methods containing one or many assertions > in their source code but one or many of these assertions are not executed > when the test is run. > To have more details on the subject, you can check the research report > related to our first definition of these tests freely available on HAL [1]. > > In this context, we built a test analyser which, given a Pharo package > containing tests, finds rotten tests [2]. This analyser is still under > development. > > We would like to extend the experiment of our research report [1] and to > analyse more projects in order to get a better understanding of rotten > tests. > > To do that, we need your help. You can help us in two ways: > 1. Answer this email with links to one or many open-source Pharo projects > containing tests. > âWe have 774 tests in PolyMath: https://github.com/PolyMathOrg/PolyMath -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (SU/IRD/UY1) "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute."http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

July 5, 2018

Need help to get a list of Pharo projects with tests

by Julien

Hello Pharo community, I am currently working on detecting rotten tests in Pharo projects. Rotten tests are defined as test methods containing one or many assertions in their source code but one or many of these assertions are not executed when the test is run. To have more details on the subject, you can check the research report related to our first definition of these tests freely available on HAL [1]. In this context, we built a test analyser which, given a Pharo package containing tests, finds rotten tests [2]. This analyser is still under development. We would like to extend the experiment of our research report [1] and to analyse more projects in order to get a better understanding of rotten tests. To do that, we need your help. You can help us in two ways: 1. Answer this email with links to one or many open-source Pharo projects containing tests. 2. If you want, provide us private projects or, at least, run our analyser on these private projects and give us back the results. If you want to help us with the second option, send me a mail directly at julien.delplanque(a)inria.fr <mailto:julien.delplanque@inria.fr>. Thanks in advance. Regards, Julien Delplanque Links: [1]: https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01819302 <https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01819302> [2]: https://github.com/juliendelplanque/RottenTestsFinder/ <https://github.com/juliendelplanque/RottenTestsFinder/> --- Julien Delplanque Doctorant Ã lâUniversitÃ© de Lille http://juliendelplanque.be/phd.html Equipe Rmod, Inria BÃ¢timent B 40, Avenue Halley 59650 Villeneuve d'Ascq NumÃ©ro de tÃ©lÃ©phone: +333 59 35 86 40

July 5, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Instance of IceUnknownBranch did not understand #id

by Guillermo Polito

Hi HernÃ¡n, On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 7:57 PM HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I wonder if anyone could help here. I am installing a BaselineOf in > Pharo 6.1 (Windows) Unfortunately this version of Iceberg is too old... I'd go with what Esteban describes and try to see if upgrading gives you a better experience. I know we have a couple of users of latest Iceberg on windows and it seems to work well. > using a script like the following: > > Iceberg > enableMetacelloIntegration: true; > remoteTypeSelector: #httpsUrl. > Metacello new > baseline: 'MyProject'; > repository: 'github://user/repo/src'; > load. > > Unfortunately the repository is private and I cannot share the URL. > When I open the Iceberg UI all downloaded packages has "Local > repository missing" (see screenshots). > > To fix this currently I assign manually the local directory (assuming > they were correctly downloaded). > You mean that they do not download/clone? Maybe there is a problem with authentication or even network? It's difficult to see without a way to reproduce it... > > Also I tried adding repository information in the #baseline: method > > baseline: spec > <baseline> > spec > baseline: 'MyProject' > with: [ spec repository: 'github://user/repo' ]. > .... > I wonder why in the Metacello expression above you put the */src* and not here. Is that ok? > Any idea how could I debug this? > Well, first things first, even if you expose a bug in this version, chances are that same bug does not exist in latest iceberg. So maybe it does not make sense to try to fix it. In any case, you should try to rule out problems in a one by one basis. 1. Check first if this is a basic iceberg problem (for example cloning). Are you able to clone your project through iceberg? Without using a metacello expression? 2. Check what happens if you disable metacello integration and try your metacello expression again. Does it load the code? Guille

July 5, 2018