February 2025 - Pharo-users

Re: About String and Symbol equality

by Jupiter Jones

my 2c... There are arguments for and against any of the semantics decisions, so leaving those aside for greater minds... +1 GemStone Pharo and GemStone have long been an enviable workflow for âcomplex problems". They go together in a project, each providing a necessary part of the puzzle. Pharo and VW more often play in the same space, not exactly competitors, but typically the choice of one OR the other for any particular project. Disclaimer - as much as I love VW, I work with GemStone almost every day and can attest that every little divergence between Pharo and GemStone adds a non-trivial burden to the project and team. GS also considers Pharo as a âreferenceâ platform. You mentioned Jamesâ amazing work running a Pharo image on GemStone. They have adopted the Pharo FileSystem, and the latest version has a first-step implementation of traits. Some of the Smalltalk community projects lost to Pharo through traits will get a new lease on life! However, itâs fair to expect that having been in isolation for so long, there will be semantic âgotchasâ to find. Would be nice if they could be minimised as part of Pharos' semantic policy. The closer Pharo & GemStone work together, the easier it will be to achieve awesome end-to-end smalltalk projects, and by extension, make the world a better place :) > On 3 Feb 2025, at 4:35â¯AM, stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Hello people > > In Pharo (following Squeak tradition) a string is equals to its symbol representation. > e.g. > âtintinâ = #tintin > > true > > In other Smalltalk dialects this is not the case. > > We have been working (sponsored by Lifeware) to support both semantics (yes this is a kind of > daunting task and it can raise bugs). > > Our objective is to help people make business with Pharo. So âsimpleâ cross compatibility is something that we consider e.g. to deploy applications in Gemstone for example. > (We would love to have a Pharo compiler working on Gemstone generating Gemstone VM bytecodes this is why we love the work of James Foster but this is another story). > > So since we are pragmatic people we could be convinced that the semantics of Pharo is not good :) > and that by default we should use the semantics of GS or VW. > > The first step is to be able to choose which one to use within Pharo and be able to switch. > We are nearly there for Pharo 13. > > The second step is to get a nice default. > And we need the help of the community for this. > > Do you have any advice, arguments for and against any of the two choices that could be put on the table to influence our decisions for Pharo 14. > > So let us know :) > > Stef on the behalf of the Pharo consortium. > > > > StÃ©phane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr > 06 30 93 66 73 > > "If you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do differently? ....ESPECIALLY if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth.â Calvin & Hobbes

Feb. 2, 2025

About String and Symbol equality

by stephane ducasse

Hello people In Pharo (following Squeak tradition) a string is equals to its symbol representation. e.g. âtintinâ = #tintin > true In other Smalltalk dialects this is not the case. We have been working (sponsored by Lifeware) to support both semantics (yes this is a kind of daunting task and it can raise bugs). Our objective is to help people make business with Pharo. So âsimpleâ cross compatibility is something that we consider e.g. to deploy applications in Gemstone for example. (We would love to have a Pharo compiler working on Gemstone generating Gemstone VM bytecodes this is why we love the work of James Foster but this is another story). So since we are pragmatic people we could be convinced that the semantics of Pharo is not good :) and that by default we should use the semantics of GS or VW. The first step is to be able to choose which one to use within Pharo and be able to switch. We are nearly there for Pharo 13. The second step is to get a nice default. And we need the help of the community for this. Do you have any advice, arguments for and against any of the two choices that could be put on the table to influence our decisions for Pharo 14. So let us know :) Stef on the behalf of the Pharo consortium. StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr 06 30 93 66 73 "If you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do differently? ....ESPECIALLY if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth.â Calvin & Hobbes

Feb. 2, 2025

Re: "Book release: Application Building with Spec 2.0" â New blog post on all: objects all: theTime

by giorgio ferraris

Thanks for writing the book, Stefan (and all the other guys) ciao giorgio On Sat, Feb 1, 2025 at 5:07â¯PM stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Thanks. > Writing this book was a daunting huge difficult exhausting task that took > me around 4 years or more. > > This publisher is managed using a not so great Php software and I can tell > you that you can feel it when > you have to manage the books. > > S > > On 30 Jan 2025, at 17:51, giorgio ferraris <giorgio.ferraris(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > hello!, > > Thank you for the answer, I ordered the book today, please note that it > still seems that is written in French. > > happy smalltalking > > > giorgio > > On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 1:23â¯PM Koen De Hondt < > koen(a)all-objects-all-the-time.st> wrote: > >> Hi Giorgio, >> >> Thank you for reporting the issue. >> >> Yes, it is an error. We saw it a few days ago, but it has not been fixed >> yet. >> >> Best regards, >> Koen >> >> On 7 Nov 2024, at 12:27, giorgio ferraris <giorgio.ferraris(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> hello, >> >> The Amazon site says that the language is French. Is that an error? >> >> thanks >> >> ciao >> >> giorgio >> >> <Screenshot 2024-11-07 at 12.25.47.png> >> >> On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 6:32â¯AM Koen De Hondt < >> koen(a)all-objects-all-the-time.st> wrote: >> >>> Dear Pharo users and developers, >>> >>> It required an enormous effort to review, rewrite, and extend it, but I >>> am happy to announce that it is finally here: the book on application >>> building in Pharo with Spec 2.0. >>> >>> I wrote a blog post about it >>> <https://all-objects-all-the-time.st/#/blog/posts/9>. Happy reading! >>> >>> Ciao, >>> Koen >>> >> >> > StÃ©phane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr > 06 30 93 66 73 > > "If you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do > differently? ....ESPECIALLY if, by doing something different, today > might not be your last day on earth.â Calvin & Hobbes > > > > > >

Feb. 2, 2025

Re: "Book release: Application Building with Spec 2.0" â New blog post on all: objects all: theTime

by Mark O'Donoghue

Congratulation Stephane on completing this book. I feel it is crucial. It removes a major hurdle for new, part time and/or returning programmers to get what they need with a UI for their Pharo programs. For me, it also helps me advocating for Pharo with my colleagues. Cheers Mark On Sun, 2 Feb 2025, 12:07 am stephane ducasse, <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Thanks. > Writing this book was a daunting huge difficult exhausting task that took > me around 4 years or more. > > This publisher is managed using a not so great Php software and I can tell > you that you can feel it when > you have to manage the books. > > S > > On 30 Jan 2025, at 17:51, giorgio ferraris <giorgio.ferraris(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > hello!, > > Thank you for the answer, I ordered the book today, please note that it > still seems that is written in French. > > happy smalltalking > > > giorgio > > On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 1:23â¯PM Koen De Hondt < > koen(a)all-objects-all-the-time.st> wrote: > >> Hi Giorgio, >> >> Thank you for reporting the issue. >> >> Yes, it is an error. We saw it a few days ago, but it has not been fixed >> yet. >> >> Best regards, >> Koen >> >> On 7 Nov 2024, at 12:27, giorgio ferraris <giorgio.ferraris(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> hello, >> >> The Amazon site says that the language is French. Is that an error? >> >> thanks >> >> ciao >> >> giorgio >> >> <Screenshot 2024-11-07 at 12.25.47.png> >> >> On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 6:32â¯AM Koen De Hondt < >> koen(a)all-objects-all-the-time.st> wrote: >> >>> Dear Pharo users and developers, >>> >>> It required an enormous effort to review, rewrite, and extend it, but I >>> am happy to announce that it is finally here: the book on application >>> building in Pharo with Spec 2.0. >>> >>> I wrote a blog post about it >>> <https://all-objects-all-the-time.st/#/blog/posts/9>. Happy reading! >>> >>> Ciao, >>> Koen >>> >> >> > StÃ©phane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr > 06 30 93 66 73 > > "If you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do > differently? ....ESPECIALLY if, by doing something different, today > might not be your last day on earth.â Calvin & Hobbes > > > > > >

Feb. 1, 2025

Re: "Book release: Application Building with Spec 2.0" â New blog post on all: objects all: theTime

by stephane ducasse

Thanks. Writing this book was a daunting huge difficult exhausting task that took me around 4 years or more. This publisher is managed using a not so great Php software and I can tell you that you can feel it when you have to manage the books. S > On 30 Jan 2025, at 17:51, giorgio ferraris <giorgio.ferraris(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > hello!, > > Thank you for the answer, I ordered the book today, please note that it still seems that is written in French. > > happy smalltalking > > > giorgio > > On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 1:23â¯PM Koen De Hondt <koen(a)all-objects-all-the-time.st <mailto:koen@all-objects-all-the-time.st>> wrote: >> Hi Giorgio, >> >> Thank you for reporting the issue. >> >> Yes, it is an error. We saw it a few days ago, but it has not been fixed yet. >> >> Best regards, >> Koen >> >>> On 7 Nov 2024, at 12:27, giorgio ferraris <giorgio.ferraris(a)gmail.com <mailto:giorgio.ferraris@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> hello, >>> >>> The Amazon site says that the language is French. Is that an error? >>> >>> thanks >>> >>> ciao >>> >>> giorgio >>> >>> <Screenshot 2024-11-07 at 12.25.47.png> >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 6:32â¯AM Koen De Hondt <koen(a)all-objects-all-the-time.st <mailto:koen@all-objects-all-the-time.st>> wrote: >>>> Dear Pharo users and developers, >>>> >>>> It required an enormous effort to review, rewrite, and extend it, but I am happy to announce that it is finally here: the book on application building in Pharo with Spec 2.0. >>>> >>>> I wrote a blog post about it <https://all-objects-all-the-time.st/#/blog/posts/9>. Happy reading! >>>> >>>> Ciao, >>>> Koen >> StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr 06 30 93 66 73 "If you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do differently? ....ESPECIALLY if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth.â Calvin & Hobbes

Feb. 1, 2025