April 2024 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

[ANN] docker-pharo-vm v10.1.0-2024-04-18 [v10.1.0 [2024-04-18]] released!

by Buenos Aires Smalltalk

April 18, 2024

Re: How to log pharo output to stdio safely?

by Tim Mackinnon

Just as a comment on this - I tried using #sync as an experiment and I get a primFailed on an Ubuntu docker image - so I think that comment in the image is misleading (or its a bug, or unfinished work) On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, at 11:15 AM, Tim Mackinnon wrote: > Hi Stef - I was aware of that class - but a good reminder to re-read it for any extra info, but I don't see anything in particular mentioned about how data is flushed - and I think this is one of those black arts from in the field. > > It looks like stdio uses an Stdiostream - and I did note an interesting comment in #flush which mention #sync and > "When writing, this syncs any written/flushed data still in the kernel file system buffers to disk. This should generally be used after #flush, but on Windows they do the same thing." > > I've never heard of #sync before - and I wonder if the trick to getting output without the cr is to do a "flush; sync" operation? > > But even then, I am thinking that a server based logging tool is going to need a cr on a log line to know how to interpret it and parse it into syslog format, so perhaps I can't escape moving the a trailing cr policy - and just try to make sure most of my logging adopts that standard (and just accept the odd corruption when other libraries write out crTrace?). > > I'm just curious how others handle this kind of stuff in the wild - maybe I should ask on a Seaside list as they are more likely to delve into this (or maybe the Gemstone guys). > > Its a world you don't normally pay attention to until you try and run something on a server and want to use the modern tools available in that world. > > Tim > > On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, at 6:43 AM, stephane ducasse wrote: >> just out of my mind and before breakfast :) >> >> did you see Stdio ? >> >> S >> >>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 01:31, Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: >>> >>> Hi - I've been messing around with deploying a hobby pharo app to the web.. which has become a lot simpler over the years, although the tech keeps changing and you have to relearn things. >>> >>> Anyway, I have my image in one of the wonderful BA Docker containers, and it runs well - and the host I'm using will show the logs for you, so you can figure out what is going on... well that is if your logs come out properly (and of course, if it gets really hairy then you can get a VNC session onto the image and figure stuff out) >>> >>> So logs are handy, and pharo these days has a nice headless mode that redirects the Transcript to stdout - and there are also a few decent logging frameworks as well. >>> >>> But as most things go to the Transcript, and that goes to stdout - it should be good. >>> >>> HOWEVER - flushing is the killer, as if things happen and the last thing goes wrong, but the output isn't flushed, then you aren't going to see it. >>> >>> So my question is how to properly flush? And I'm sure I've read something about this before, but I can't find it. >>> >>> From memory, you often need to have a Transcript cr. to flush your last line. >>> >>> BUT, most things in the image seem to use "self crTrace:" these days, which is a cr to ensure the previous msg is separated from what you want to write, and then you write your line out. However, as there is now cr - you might not see it. >>> >>> So I tried changing my stuff to use "self traceCr:" (which is in the image), and that still didn't seem to work - the last failing line wasn't being output. Worse still, its confusing, as many things in the image are using crTrace: and so you get intermingled messages, which are hard to decipher. >>> >>> So I tried: Transcript cr; show: msg; flush >>> >>> But that didn't seem to work (which I don't understand) >>> >>> Eventually I did: Transcript show: msg; cr; flush >>> >>> And this seems to ensure things do reliably get outputted - but I'm wondering if anyone can shed light on this areas? >>> >>> Ideally I want to use: Transcript cr'; show: msg; flush >>> >>> As this plays much better with everything that is in the image - but is there some way to do this? And indeed, will log tools the Bettersatack or papertail play ball with output like this (as I guess they operate on complete lines to interpret log levels etc), >>> >>> Anyway - I'm curious if anyone else has done work in this area to shed light? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> As an aside - for deployment - several years ago I came across dockerize.io - which lets you upload a Docker image to a host, and it will run it for you. Sadly that service didn't survive... but there are quite a few like it now, and so I'm trying Render.com <http://render.com/> - which is similar, but the twist is you need to store a Docker image in a registry somewhere (I use gitlab from my CI pipeline), and then it will retrieve it and run it for you (for either free in 40 minute chunks, or for $7/m - which is pretty good, and possibly bit simpler than Digital Ocean). Its pretty cool, and maybe I will write up about it sometime >> >> StÃ©phane Ducasse >> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr >> 06 30 93 66 73 >> >> "If you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do differently? ....ESPECIALLY if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth.â Calvin & Hobbes >> >> >

April 18, 2024

Re: How to log pharo output to stdio safely?

by Tim Mackinnon

Hi Stef - I was aware of that class - but a good reminder to re-read it for any extra info, but I don't see anything in particular mentioned about how data is flushed - and I think this is one of those black arts from in the field. It looks like stdio uses an Stdiostream - and I did note an interesting comment in #flush which mention #sync and "When writing, this syncs any written/flushed data still in the kernel file system buffers to disk. This should generally be used after #flush, but on Windows they do the same thing." I've never heard of #sync before - and I wonder if the trick to getting output without the cr is to do a "flush; sync" operation? But even then, I am thinking that a server based logging tool is going to need a cr on a log line to know how to interpret it and parse it into syslog format, so perhaps I can't escape moving the a trailing cr policy - and just try to make sure most of my logging adopts that standard (and just accept the odd corruption when other libraries write out crTrace?). I'm just curious how others handle this kind of stuff in the wild - maybe I should ask on a Seaside list as they are more likely to delve into this (or maybe the Gemstone guys). Its a world you don't normally pay attention to until you try and run something on a server and want to use the modern tools available in that world. Tim On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, at 6:43 AM, stephane ducasse wrote: > just out of my mind and before breakfast :) > > did you see Stdio ? > > S > >> On 18 Apr 2024, at 01:31, Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: >> >> Hi - I've been messing around with deploying a hobby pharo app to the web.. which has become a lot simpler over the years, although the tech keeps changing and you have to relearn things. >> >> Anyway, I have my image in one of the wonderful BA Docker containers, and it runs well - and the host I'm using will show the logs for you, so you can figure out what is going on... well that is if your logs come out properly (and of course, if it gets really hairy then you can get a VNC session onto the image and figure stuff out) >> >> So logs are handy, and pharo these days has a nice headless mode that redirects the Transcript to stdout - and there are also a few decent logging frameworks as well. >> >> But as most things go to the Transcript, and that goes to stdout - it should be good. >> >> HOWEVER - flushing is the killer, as if things happen and the last thing goes wrong, but the output isn't flushed, then you aren't going to see it. >> >> So my question is how to properly flush? And I'm sure I've read something about this before, but I can't find it. >> >> From memory, you often need to have a Transcript cr. to flush your last line. >> >> BUT, most things in the image seem to use "self crTrace:" these days, which is a cr to ensure the previous msg is separated from what you want to write, and then you write your line out. However, as there is now cr - you might not see it. >> >> So I tried changing my stuff to use "self traceCr:" (which is in the image), and that still didn't seem to work - the last failing line wasn't being output. Worse still, its confusing, as many things in the image are using crTrace: and so you get intermingled messages, which are hard to decipher. >> >> So I tried: Transcript cr; show: msg; flush >> >> But that didn't seem to work (which I don't understand) >> >> Eventually I did: Transcript show: msg; cr; flush >> >> And this seems to ensure things do reliably get outputted - but I'm wondering if anyone can shed light on this areas? >> >> Ideally I want to use: Transcript cr'; show: msg; flush >> >> As this plays much better with everything that is in the image - but is there some way to do this? And indeed, will log tools the Bettersatack or papertail play ball with output like this (as I guess they operate on complete lines to interpret log levels etc), >> >> Anyway - I'm curious if anyone else has done work in this area to shed light? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Tim >> >> >> As an aside - for deployment - several years ago I came across dockerize.io - which lets you upload a Docker image to a host, and it will run it for you. Sadly that service didn't survive... but there are quite a few like it now, and so I'm trying Render.com <http://render.com/> - which is similar, but the twist is you need to store a Docker image in a registry somewhere (I use gitlab from my CI pipeline), and then it will retrieve it and run it for you (for either free in 40 minute chunks, or for $7/m - which is pretty good, and possibly bit simpler than Digital Ocean). Its pretty cool, and maybe I will write up about it sometime > > StÃ©phane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr > 06 30 93 66 73 > > "If you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do differently? ....ESPECIALLY if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth.â Calvin & Hobbes > >

April 18, 2024

Re: How to log pharo output to stdio safely?

by stephane ducasse

just out of my mind and before breakfast :) did you see Stdio ? S > On 18 Apr 2024, at 01:31, Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: > > Hi - I've been messing around with deploying a hobby pharo app to the web.. which has become a lot simpler over the years, although the tech keeps changing and you have to relearn things. > > Anyway, I have my image in one of the wonderful BA Docker containers, and it runs well - and the host I'm using will show the logs for you, so you can figure out what is going on... well that is if your logs come out properly (and of course, if it gets really hairy then you can get a VNC session onto the image and figure stuff out) > > So logs are handy, and pharo these days has a nice headless mode that redirects the Transcript to stdout - and there are also a few decent logging frameworks as well. > > But as most things go to the Transcript, and that goes to stdout - it should be good. > > HOWEVER - flushing is the killer, as if things happen and the last thing goes wrong, but the output isn't flushed, then you aren't going to see it. > > So my question is how to properly flush? And I'm sure I've read something about this before, but I can't find it. > > From memory, you often need to have a Transcript cr. to flush your last line. > > BUT, most things in the image seem to use "self crTrace:" these days, which is a cr to ensure the previous msg is separated from what you want to write, and then you write your line out. However, as there is now cr - you might not see it. > > So I tried changing my stuff to use "self traceCr:" (which is in the image), and that still didn't seem to work - the last failing line wasn't being output. Worse still, its confusing, as many things in the image are using crTrace: and so you get intermingled messages, which are hard to decipher. > > So I tried: Transcript cr; show: msg; flush > > But that didn't seem to work (which I don't understand) > > Eventually I did: Transcript show: msg; cr; flush > > And this seems to ensure things do reliably get outputted - but I'm wondering if anyone can shed light on this areas? > > Ideally I want to use: Transcript cr'; show: msg; flush > > As this plays much better with everything that is in the image - but is there some way to do this? And indeed, will log tools the Bettersatack or papertail play ball with output like this (as I guess they operate on complete lines to interpret log levels etc), > > Anyway - I'm curious if anyone else has done work in this area to shed light? > > Thanks, > > Tim > > > As an aside - for deployment - several years ago I came across dockerize.io <http://dockerize.io/> - which lets you upload a Docker image to a host, and it will run it for you. Sadly that service didn't survive... but there are quite a few like it now, and so I'm trying Render.com <http://render.com/> - which is similar, but the twist is you need to store a Docker image in a registry somewhere (I use gitlab from my CI pipeline), and then it will retrieve it and run it for you (for either free in 40 minute chunks, or for $7/m - which is pretty good, and possibly bit simpler than Digital Ocean). Its pretty cool, and maybe I will write up about it sometime StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr 06 30 93 66 73 "If you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do differently? ....ESPECIALLY if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth.â Calvin & Hobbes

April 18, 2024

How to log pharo output to stdio safely?

by Tim Mackinnon

Hi - I've been messing around with deploying a hobby pharo app to the web.. which has become a lot simpler over the years, although the tech keeps changing and you have to relearn things. Anyway, I have my image in one of the wonderful BA Docker containers, and it runs well - and the host I'm using will show the logs for you, so you can figure out what is going on... well that is if your logs come out properly (and of course, if it gets really hairy then you can get a VNC session onto the image and figure stuff out) So logs are handy, and pharo these days has a nice headless mode that redirects the Transcript to stdout - and there are also a few decent logging frameworks as well. But as most things go to the Transcript, and that goes to stdout - it should be good. HOWEVER - flushing is the killer, as if things happen and the last thing goes wrong, but the output isn't flushed, then you aren't going to see it. So my question is how to properly flush? And I'm sure I've read something about this before, but I can't find it. >From memory, you often need to have a Transcript cr. to flush your last line. BUT, most things in the image seem to use "self crTrace:" these days, which is a cr to ensure the previous msg is separated from what you want to write, and then you write your line out. However, as there is now cr - you might not see it. So I tried changing my stuff to use "self traceCr:" (which is in the image), and that still didn't seem to work - the last failing line wasn't being output. Worse still, its confusing, as many things in the image are using crTrace: and so you get intermingled messages, which are hard to decipher. So I tried: Transcript cr; show: msg; flush But that didn't seem to work (which I don't understand) Eventually I did: Transcript show: msg; cr; flush And this seems to ensure things do reliably get outputted - but I'm wondering if anyone can shed light on this areas? Ideally I want to use: Transcript cr'; show: msg; flush As this plays much better with everything that is in the image - but is there some way to do this? And indeed, will log tools the Bettersatack or papertail play ball with output like this (as I guess they operate on complete lines to interpret log levels etc), Anyway - I'm curious if anyone else has done work in this area to shed light? Thanks, Tim As an aside - for deployment - several years ago I came across dockerize.io - which lets you upload a Docker image to a host, and it will run it for you. Sadly that service didn't survive... but there are quite a few like it now, and so I'm trying Render.com - which is similar, but the twist is you need to store a Docker image in a registry somewhere (I use gitlab from my CI pipeline), and then it will retrieve it and run it for you (for either free in 40 minute chunks, or for $7/m - which is pretty good, and possibly bit simpler than Digital Ocean). Its pretty cool, and maybe I will write up about it sometime

April 17, 2024

Re: remove breakpoint ?

by stephane ducasse

> On 9 Apr 2024, at 01:41, Haroldo Stenger <haroldo.stenger(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > hi dear StÃ©phane > > thank you very much for your mail. > > I first have to say that I could already pass over this. > The problem that originated the red ! in the method pane, or better, what made it disappear, was that x and y were originally written as instance variables without any initialization in an initialize method. It was a weird effect so to say, that a uninitialized variables made this , making one (me ) think that this was a breakpoint, which in the end , wasn't. What added to making me think this, was the red breakpoint label in the protocols pane, which in addition , I misperceived was parenting the 'a' protocol, when in fact was simply a sibling. The third thing that misguided me, was that breakpoints are marked in several parts of the system browser as red !, even the right click menu on the method. However , it was the other issue of uninitialized variables. I'll try to redo and isolate this , both in Pharo 11 and 12 snapshot in order to help polish the UI, if that's of any value. Always :) > I appreaciate a lot that you redirect me to Bloc list, bc I was afraid of going there with such a newbe issue, which by the way I still didn't get right (putting one little square along the circumference). Just a toy approach on my part in order to learn both Pharo and Bloc. But maybe I'm hittiong against some rough part of Bloc, which has to do with 'refreshes' . I still coudn't make the squares render. I'll report back on this later in the week, maybe also in the Pharo list. I will start to work on a little tutorial to build a clock in Bloc based on the work on Renaud and I will add it to the Bloc chapter. A general problem about software is that it is often fun to develop but people forget the documentation part. So I will try to learn bloc and write what I understand and share it. S > You always encourage to ask and I value that a lot! I did that also in discord channel. > best regards > Haroldo > > El dom, 7 abr 2024 a la(s) 5:38â¯p.m., stephane ducasse (stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr <mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>) escribiÃ³: >> Hi arnoldo >> >> Sorry for the inconvenience often I edit and recompile the method to remove a breakpoint. >> In P12 we redid all this part. >> this is the first time I see this. >> Which version of pharo are you using? >> >> - Did you see the vides in the first week of the mooc? because they explain the IDE. >> http://mooc.pharo.org <http://mooc.pharo.org/> >> - You can have support if you ask in the discord channel >> https://discord.gg/QewZMZa >> >> - for Bloc there is separate mailing-list >> lse-openbloc <lse-openbloc(a)inria.fr <mailto:lse-openbloc@inria.fr>> >> you can register at http://sympa.inria.fr <http://sympa.inria.fr/> >> >> >>> On 5 Apr 2024, at 11:16, Haroldo Stenger <haroldo.stenger(a)gmail.com <mailto:haroldo.stenger@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> hi nice pharo people >>> >>> I'm doing my very initial attempts in Pharo. Having read something >>> here and there. >>> Now I've put myself to subclass BlElement in order to add a method of >>> myself to this subclass. >>> The subclass got named 'Circulo'. Then I had a hard time trying to >>> create a protocol to 'host' it, but finally it got created as protocol >>> 'a'. Initially it got created in the third pane in the browser, below >>> without any apparent 'breakpoint hierarchy'. However, as soon as I >>> wrote the method and got to save/accept it, something strange >>> happened, namely, 'brakepoint' protocol was created out of nothing , >>> and my 'a' protocol was put under it. The method itself in the fourth >>> pane, has a red ! sign. If I right click on the method, and try to >>> remove the breakpoint, it does nothing. What happens this and how can >>> I have a normal situation , since I did not put breakpoints ? Thanks >>> for your kind help >>> <image.png> >> >> StÃ©phane Ducasse >> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr <http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/> >> 06 30 93 66 73 >> >> "If you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do differently? ....ESPECIALLY if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth.â Calvin & Hobbes >> >> >> >> >> StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr 06 30 93 66 73 "If you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do differently? ....ESPECIALLY if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth.â Calvin & Hobbes

April 14, 2024

This week (15/2024) on the Pharo Issue Tracker

by Marcus Denker

# Speed - 16407-RBNodes-errorNotices-creates-unneeded-empty-collections #16408 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/16408 # Bug Fixes - Fix Preview Settings Browser: does not open when a custom setting is used #734 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/734 - Remove async playground doits #735 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/735 - Fix issue while trying to display file setting items #736 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/736 - quick fix that hide the debug context menus when there are unsaved changes #16382 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/16382 - Fix Generate Equals and Hash DNU #16384 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/16384 - Fix for Wrong focus in Calypso Find Class Dialog causes exception #16386 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/16386 - Provide a default String for settings without #default: sends. #16400 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/16400 - fix MethodConstantTest #16405 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/16405 - fix enum type initialization on structures #16406 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/16406 - Do not suggest trait when deprecating a class #16409 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/16409 - 16366 Insert superclass refactoring is allowed on trait and gives DNU #16413 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/16413 - 16423-Scrolling-always-acts-as-if-macOS-option-Use-inertia-when-scrolling-is-turned-off #16426 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/16426 - Fix Refactorings should have help menus to explain their actions #16421 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/16421 - Reposition Calypso contextual class menu items #16420 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/16420 # Improvements - Add support for Epicea file out #16401 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/16401 - Add Toplo world menu entry #16429 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/16429 # UI - Exclude some commands from virtual method groups on Calypso #16404 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/16404 - fix enter/escape behavior on dialogs #1537 https://github.com/pharo-spec/Spec/pull/1537 - Improving the behavior in all the dialogs #1536 https://github.com/pharo-spec/Spec/pull/1536 - Fix selection bug in SpFilteringSelectableListPresenter #1535 https://github.com/pharo-spec/Spec/pull/1535 - fix: SpSelectDialog should select the first item #1530 #1534 https://github.com/pharo-spec/Spec/pull/1534 - Improve SpSelectDialog for handling line splitting texts #1533 https://github.com/pharo-spec/Spec/pull/1533 - Cleanup/remove rename default spec to default layout refactoring #1515 https://github.com/pharo-spec/Spec/pull/1515 # Cleanups - moved to Spec2-Transmission package #1538 https://github.com/pharo-spec/Spec/pull/1538 - Use #setUp instead of #initialize for test cases #16417 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/16417 - Remove CharacterTable #16416 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/16416

April 12, 2024

Re: Early rate deadline is approaching....

by Cyril FERLICOT-DELBECQUE

Hi James, Until the link gets fixed, you can propose your talk here: https://github.com/ESUG/esug.github.io/tree/source/2024-Conference/talks Sorry for the disturbance. Have a nice day :) -- Cyril Ferlicot-Delbecquehttps://ferlicot.fr On Tuesday, April 9th, 2024 at 4:12 PM, James Foster via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > Is the presentation deadline past? I ask because https://registration.esug.org/call2024.html doesnât work. > >> On Apr 9, 2024, at 5:46â¯AM, stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >> Hello >> >> People do not miss this unique opportunity to participate in ESUG in early July >> >> https://esug.org >> >> Pay attention that the early rate end is approachingâ¦ 15 of April 2024. >> >> https://registration.esug.org/ESUG >> >> StÃ©phane Ducasse >> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr >> 06 30 93 66 73 >> >> "If you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do differently? ....ESPECIALLY if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth.â Calvin & Hobbes

April 9, 2024

Re: Early rate deadline is approaching....

by James Foster

Is the presentation deadline past? I ask because https://registration.esug.org/call2024.html doesnât work. > On Apr 9, 2024, at 5:46â¯AM, stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Hello > > People do not miss this unique opportunity to participate in ESUG in early July > > https://esug.org > > Pay attention that the early rate end is approachingâ¦ 15 of April 2024. > > https://registration.esug.org/ESUG > > > > StÃ©phane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr > 06 30 93 66 73 > > "If you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do differently? ....ESPECIALLY if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth.â Calvin & Hobbes > > > > >

April 9, 2024

Early rate deadline is approaching....

by stephane ducasse

Hello People do not miss this unique opportunity to participate in ESUG in early July https://esug.org Pay attention that the early rate end is approachingâ¦ 15 of April 2024. https://registration.esug.org/ESUG StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr 06 30 93 66 73 "If you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do differently? ....ESPECIALLY if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth.â Calvin & Hobbes

April 9, 2024