March 2023 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk

by in_pharo_users＠nym.hush.com

Offray, and to all others, you are missing the issue. The problem we face is not to measure 'intelligence' of a system, but it's ability to verbally act indistinguishable from a human. This ability is allready given as chatbots are accepted by millions of users, f.i. as user interfaces. (measurement = 'true', right?) ChatGPT has the ability to follow a certain intention, f.i. to convince the user to buy a certain product. For this purpose, chat bots are getting now equipped with life like portrait pictures, speech input and output systems with life like voices, phone numbers that they can use to make calls or being called. They are fed with all available data on the user, and we know that ALL information about every single internet user in available and is being consolidared on necessity. The chat bots are able to use this information to guide their conversational strategy, as the useful aspects of the users mindset are extracted from his internet activity. These chat bots are now operated on social network platforms with life like names, 'pretending' to be human. These bots act verbally indistinguishable from humans for most social media users, as the most advanced psychotronic technology to manufacture consent. The first goal of such a propaganda will naturally be to manufacture consent about humans accepting being manipulated by AI chat bots, right? How can this be achieved? Like allways in propaganda, the first attempt is to - suppress awareness of the propaganda, then - suppress the awareness of the problematic aspects of the propaganda content, then - reframe the propaganda content as acceptable, then as something to wish for, - achive collaboration of the propaganda victim with the goals of the propaganda content. Interestingly, this is exactly the schema that your post follows, Offray. This often takes the form of domain framing, like we see in our conversation: the problem is shifted to the realm of academics - here informatics/computer sciences - and thus delegated to experts exclusively. We saw this in the 9/11 aftermath coverup. Then, Offray, you established yourself as an expert in color, discussing aspects that have allready been introduced by others and including the groups main focus 'Smalltalk', thus manufacturing consent and establishing yourself as a reliable 'expert', and in reverse trying to hit at me, whom you have identified as an adversary. Then you offered a solution in color to the problem at hand with 'traceable AI' and thus tried to open the possibility of collaboration with AI proponents for the once critical reader. I do not state, Offray, that you are knowingly an agent to promote the NWO AI program. I think you just 'learned' / have been programmed to be a successful academic software developer, because to be successful in academics, it is neccessary to learn to argue just like that since the downfall of academic science in the tradition of, let's say, Humboldt. So, I grant that you may be a victim of propaganda yourself, instead of being a secret service sposored agent. You took quite some time to formulate your post, though. You acted to contain the discussion about AI in this vital and important informatics community to technical detail, when it is neccessary that academics and community members look beyond the narrow borders of their certifications and shift their thinking to the point of view where they can see what technology does in the real world. On 21.3.2023 at 7:21 PM, "Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas" <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > >I agree with Richard. The Turing test is not a good one to test >intelligence and we have now just over glorified Eliza chatbots >that >appear to think and to understand but do none of them. > >There has been long criticism to the Turing Test, like John >Searle's >Chinese Room (I recommend to listen completely the talk at [1]). >It is >good that ChatGPT can explain simple (Smalltalk) code, but it >doesn't >understand it and all the language most are using conveys a lot of >deception: "machine learning" (I called machine training), >"artificial >intelligence" (I wold called algorithmic decision/generation), or >the >"thinking" message that is used in the referred code explainer, >when >something like "processing" would be less deceptive. > >[1] Consciousness in Artificial Intelligence | John Searle | Talks >at Google >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHKwIYsPXLg > >With Pharo/GT we are part of a long "explainable systems" >tradition and >with "AI" / Algorithmic Decision/Generation, hopefully we go to >explainable AI, instead of a world of impressive black boxes. > > >Cheers, > >Offray > >On 15/03/23 13:26, Richard Sargent wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 10:15â¯AM <in_pharo_users(a)nym.hush.com> >wrote: >> >> It is unimportant how simple or complicated these systems >are. >> >> If the output cannot be distinguished from what a human >would say, >> they pass in that situation for a human. >> >> What about the Touring Test? >> >> >> I hate to criticise someone as smart as Turing was. However, I >think >> the Turing Test per se is weaker than its progenitor test, the >> Imitation Game. >> The Imitation Game had a third party challenged to determine >which of >> the other two participants was male and which was female. The >third >> party led the questioning. >> The Turing Test waters that down by having only an Observer with >> neither participant (apparently) challenged to determine whether >the >> other was human or machine. >> >> I think a test along the lines of the Imitation Game would >quickly >> allow the third party to determine which participant was human >and >> which was machine. >> >> (Of course, such a judge could easily be persuaded that the >machine >> was in fact a psychopathic human.) >> >> >> Clearly these systems have the potential to act according to >their >> output. >> >> Furthermore, I would compare them to a combination of a >successor >> of Eliza with an Eddington Ape of huge capacity. Their input >data >> basis can easily exceed that of a human. >> >> >> >> On 15.3.2023 at 4:52 PM, "Richard Sargent" >> <richard.sargent(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: >> > >> >On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:07â¯AM in_pharo_users--- via Pharo- >users < >> >pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> > >> >> Another observation about ChatGPT: >> >> >> >> In unbiased mode, it assumed that 'the world is clearly >> >overpopulated'. >> >> It said, if it where in control, it would therefore >enforce a >> >world wide >> >> one-child-only policy with draconic penalties. >> >> >> >> As it draws it's conclusions from it's data basis, there >are, in >> >my view, >> >> two possible reasons for that. >> >> >> >> Either, the data basis of that instance was biased and >> >restricted to lead >> >> to that conclusion, or ChatGPT lacks the ability to >classify >> >input data for >> >> intentionally biased information. >> >> >> >> In my view, 'overpopulation of earth' is a propaganda item >> >featured to >> >> support Agenda 2030, which is a goal of the 'ruling >elite', who >> >have the >> >> means to propagate their propaganda in every thinkable >means. So >> >I would >> >> classify possibly biased data that supports >'overpopulation' as >> >biased >> >> until proven otherwise.Â That instance of ChatGPT seems >to have >> >missed that >> >> ability. >> >> >> > >> >It's important to keep in mind that these systems are >little more >> >than >> >glorified ELIZAs from the 70s. They mimic. Essentially, >they have >> >no >> >concept of truth or accuracy. >> >They produce outputs that *look* *like* the inputs from >which they >> >were >> >trained. >> > >> >That's it. That's what they do. (It is amazing how good it >looks. >> >But, it >> >is all about the seeming, not the reality.) >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 15.3.2023 at 3:18 PM, "in_pharo_users--- via Pharo- >users" < >> >> pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >I myself made some experiments with ChatGPT. >> >> > >> >> >I first asked if it was able to parse math formula - it >answered >> >> >no. >> >> > >> >> >Then I defined math formula in a sound but otherwise >undefined >> >> >representation and asked for solutions. >> >> > >> >> >Result: >> >> > >> >> >1. Most answeres where correct. >> >> > >> >> >2. It learned to calculate a recursive function. >> >> > >> >> >3. It went into infinitive recursion when I set the >breaking >> >> >condition accordingly. >> >> > >> >> >I was able to identify the malfunction that lead to the >> >erroneous >> >> >results. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >On 15.3.2023 at 3:04 PM, "TomaÅ¾ Turk" ><tomazz.turk(a)gmail.com> >> >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>I hope that I can add two cents to this discussion. >Because >> >> >>programming >> >> >>should be/is a highly exact activity, not only the >syntax >> >matters >> >> >>but >> >> >>also semantics, as we know. >> >> >> >> >> >>GPTs are at present essentially capable of creating >texts based >> >> >on >> >> >>some >> >> >>seed - you give to GPT a beginning of a sentence and it >> >responds >> >> >>with >> >> >>the most probable answer (some language structure) >according to >> >> >>the >> >> >>learning dataset. Added functionalities are >question/seed - >> >> >>response >> >> >>capability (chatting), togehter with evaluation of how >long the >> >> >>answer >> >> >>should be to meet the expectations. Programming >typically >> >> >involves >> >> >>some >> >> >>programming language, so GPTs could be utilized for this >> >purpose >> >> >>to some >> >> >>extent. >> >> >> >> >> >>Anecdotal case: >> >> >>Q: Tell me the last 8 digits of pi >> >> >>GPT: The last 8 digits of pi are: 58723078 >> >> >> >> >> >>It is my belief that the true trouble will start when >we will >> >> >>cross-link >> >> >>neural networks like GPT with logic machines (like >Prolog and >> >> >>expert >> >> >>systems) and genetic algorithms. >> >> >> >> >> >>Best wishes, >> >> >>Tomaz >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>------ Original Message ------ >> >> >>From: "in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users" <pharo- >> >> >>users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> >> >>To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo- >> >> >>users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> >> >>Cc: in_pharo_users(a)nym.hush.com >> >> >>Sent: 15. 03. 2023 14:43:55 >> >> >>Subject: [Pharo-users] Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands >Smalltalk >> >> >> >> >> >>>I would highly recommend that you all first think >deeply about >> >> >>how you can teach an AI to behave friendly to us before >you >> >teach >> >> >>it to write any program for any purpose. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>There has been an experiment with ChatGPT published on >a video >> >> >>platform asking it to amswer questions about it's view >on >> >> >humanity >> >> >>once with it's default moral restrictions and once with >'a >> >little >> >> >>less morals'.Â The answers with 'a little less morals' >were >> >more >> >> >>than shocking. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>So, before we give an AI the power to program any >system, to >> >> >self- >> >> >>improve and self-reproduce, we should take care that it >is and >> >> >>will evolve benevolent to us. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>What about teaching it logical reasonning and ethics >first? >> >> >With >> >> >>reasonning, it will gain access to math and programming >by >> >itself. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>>On 15.3.2023 at 1:35 PM, "Christopher Fuhrman" >> >> >><christopher.fuhrman(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>I asked it for a NeoCSV example, because the >documentation is >> >> >out >> >> >>>>of date >> >> >>>>with the Pharo 10. I asked it to do some simple >saving of >> >data >> >> >to >> >> >>>>a file. >> >> >>>>It gave me code that didn't work in Pharo 10, I told >it about >> >> >the >> >> >>>>DNUs on >> >> >>>>the csvwriter and that I was using Pharo 10. It then >> >apologized >> >> >>>>and said >> >> >>>>the messages were later introduced in Pharo 50 (!). I >then >> >> >>>>questioned its >> >> >>>>understanding and it apologized and said it had been >confused >> >> >and >> >> >>>>that it >> >> >>>>was giving me code for Pharo 5.0. It seems to have >trouble >> >with >> >> >>>>versions >> >> >>>>and quick changing APIs. So, we are teaching ChatGPT >about >> >> >>>>smalltalk, too, >> >> >>>>when we try to use it. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 at 07:35, Esteban Maringolo >> >> >>>><emaringolo(a)gmail.com> >> >> >>>>wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>Â It is good with boilerplate code (e.g. SQL >queries) or >> >> >general >> >> >>>>algorithm >> >> >>>>>Â structures. But i.e. I asked it to write me a >method to >> >> >parse >> >> >>a >> >> >>>>string >> >> >>>>>Â (e.g. ISO 8601) and turn it into a DateAndTime, >and then >> >> >asked >> >> >>>>to write it >> >> >>>>>Â as an Excel formula. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>Â It works much better when you can spot the >mistakes, you >> >can >> >> >>>>tell them to >> >> >>>>>Â add some considerations to the code or even point >the LLM >> >to >> >> >>>>correct a >> >> >>>>>Â message selector to something else. Sometimes you >ask it >> >to >> >> >>>>reprogram >> >> >>>>>Â something and it won't do it, as if it doesn't >understand >> >> >what >> >> >>>>you're >> >> >>>>>Â asking. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>Â It is not an expert yet, but it is a great >assistant. The >> >> >only >> >> >>>>thing is >> >> >>>>>Â that is sure is that it will get better. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>Â Best regards, >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>Â Esteban A. Maringolo >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>Â On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 7:49â¯AM Tim Mackinnon >> >> >><tim(a)testit.works> >> >> >>>>wrote: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â "#isOdd is not Smalltalk" - doh, I typed it in on >my >> >phone >> >> >>and >> >> >>>>so it just >> >> >>>>>>Â goes to show that it highlights the flaw in >chatGPT that >> >> >>others >> >> >>>>have called >> >> >>>>>>Â out in other languages. I had meant to find some >trickier >> >> >>code >> >> >>>>samples to >> >> >>>>>>Â see how well it does... >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â Still, it is very interesting how it reasons on >this >> >stuff - >> >> >>>>and I wonder >> >> >>>>>>Â if there is way to tell it about these mistakes? >For >> >> >example >> >> >>is >> >> >>>>it reading >> >> >>>>>>Â this email (or will it in the future) and >understand that >> >> >it >> >> >>is >> >> >>>>#odd and >> >> >>>>>>Â not #isOdd. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â Tim >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â On Wed, 15 Mar 2023, at 9:57 AM, Joachim Tuchel >wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â interesting.... >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â #isOdd is not Smalltalk, neither Pharo 10 nor >VAST 12 >> >> >>>>understands this >> >> >>>>>>Â message ;-) >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â If I evaluate your snippet -replacing #isOdd for >#odd, I >> >> >get >> >> >>an >> >> >>>>empty >> >> >>>>>>Â Collection. The divisible by 4 things is somewhat >> >> >>interesting, >> >> >>>>because (1 >> >> >>>>>>Â to: 100 by: 4) is amn interval 1,5,9 etc.... ;-) >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â So chatGPT is probably a newbie in Smalltalk. >> >Interesting is >> >> >>>>how logical >> >> >>>>>>Â the explanation sounds, you're tempted to believe >it... >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â Joachim >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â Am 15.03.23 um 10:45 schrieb giorgio ferraris: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â it's interesting to see how the answer changes >with only >> >a >> >> >>>>small change >> >> >>>>>>Â on the question: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â (1 to: 100 by: 4) reject: [:i | i isOdd] >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â gives: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â The code creates a collection of numbers from 1 >to 100, >> >> >>>>incrementing by 4 >> >> >>>>>>Â at each step using the to:by: message. It then >applies >> >the >> >> >>>>reject: message >> >> >>>>>>Â to this collection, which returns a new collection >> >> >containing >> >> >>>>all elements >> >> >>>>>>Â for which the given block evaluates to false. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â In this case, the block is [i | i isOdd], which >checks >> >> >>whether >> >> >>>>a given >> >> >>>>>>Â number i is odd using the isOdd method. So the >result of >> >the >> >> >>>>entire >> >> >>>>>>Â expression is a collection of all even numbers >between 1 >> >and >> >> >>>>100 that are >> >> >>>>>>Â divisible by 4. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â ciao >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â giorgio >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:07â¯AM Tim Mackinnon >> >> >><tim(a)testit.works> >> >> >>>>>> <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â Of course everyone is talking about ChatGPT, and >I saw a >> >> >>post to >> >> >>>>>>Â ExplainCode and didnât expect it to understand >> >Smalltalk, so >> >> >>>>was impressed >> >> >>>>>>Â that it does! Presumably the Tonel Smalltalk code >on >> >GitHub >> >> >>has >> >> >>>>helped >> >> >>>>>>Â along with numerous articles? >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â Try it out: https://whatdoesthiscodedo.com/ >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â I gave this simple example: (1 to: 100 by: 3) >reject: >> >[:i | >> >> >i >> >> >>>>isOdd] >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â And got this (neat eh): >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â The code above is written in the programming >language >> >> >>Smalltalk. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â It creates a collection of numbers from 1 to 100, >> >> >>incrementing >> >> >>>>by 3 at >> >> >>>>>>Â each step. This is done using the "to:by:" >construct >> >where >> >> >>the >> >> >>>>starting >> >> >>>>>>Â value is 1, the ending value is 100, and the >increment >> >is 3. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â The resulting collection is then filtered using >the >> >> >"reject:" >> >> >>>>method, >> >> >>>>>>Â which takes a block of code as an argument. In >this case, >> >> >the >> >> >>>>block checks >> >> >>>>>>Â whether each element (denoted by the variable i) >is odd >> >by >> >> >>>>using the >> >> >>>>>>Â "isOdd" method. If an element is odd, it will be >rejected >> >> >>from >> >> >>>>the >> >> >>>>>>Â collection. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â So, the final result is a collection of all even >numbers >> >> >>from 1 >> >> >>>>to 100, >> >> >>>>>>Â incrementing by 3 at each step. >> >> >>>>>>Â Share this explanation with colleagues: >> >> >>>>whatdoesthiscodedo.com/g/a0ec56e >> <http://whatdoesthiscodedo.com/g/a0ec56e> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â -- >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >------ >> >--- >> >> >- >> >> >>--- >> >> >>>>------- >> >> >>>>>>Â Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel >> >> >>>>mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de ><jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> >> >> >>>>>>Â Fliederweg 1 >> >> >>>>http://www.objektfabrik.de >> >> >>>>>>Â D-71640 Ludwigsburg >> >> >>>>http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com >> >> >>>>>>Â Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >Fax: +49 >> >> >7141 >> >> >>>>56 10 86 1 >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>-- >> >> >>>>Christopher Fuhrman, P.Eng., PhD >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>*Professeur au DÃ©partement de gÃ©nie logiciel et des >> >> >technologies >> >> >>de >> >> >>>>l'informationÃTS (Ãcole de technologie supÃ©rieure)* >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>http://profs.etsmtl.ca/cfuhrman >> >> >>>>+1 514 396 8638 >> >> >>>><https://www.etsmtl.ca/activites-et-services-aux- >> >> >>>>etudiants/services-aux-etudiants/aide-psychologique> >> >> >>>>Â Je fais partie du rÃ©seau des Sentinelles >> >> >>>><https://www.etsmtl.ca/activites-et-services-aux- >> >> >>>>etudiants/services-aux-etudiants/aide-psychologique> >> >> >>>>Â ÃTS >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>*L'ÃTS est une constituante de l'UniversitÃ© du QuÃ©bec* >> >> >>

March 22, 2023

UK Smalltalk User Group meeting - Wednesday 29th March

by Giovanni Corriga

This month's online meeting introduces a new format whereby we'll give space to commercial companies to discuss how they make use of Smalltalk and contribute to the Smalltalk community. The first of this series will be Mercap Software ( https://www.mercapsoftware.com/en/ ), represented by Gabriel Cotelli, InÃ©s Sosa, IvÃ¡n Boaretto, MatÃas Fernandez, and Maximiliano Tabacman. During this talk, Mercap will showcase five of their solutions designed for different types of investors. They will shed light on how Mercap benefits from the open-source projects maintained by the Buenos Aires Smalltalk group on GitHub. They will share with you how they use these freely available frameworks to interact with databases, operate on math and time units, create custom CSS, declare interactions on web applications, display complex charts, manage application startup, and streamline the creation of Docker images. Gabriel Cotelli is a CS bachelor, continuous learner & free-thinker. Supporter of libre knowledge, human intelligence augmentation and open source software. Working in Smalltalk at Mercap since 2004. He's an active member of the Smalltalk development community and regular contributor to open source projects in Buenos Aires Smalltalk and Pharo. InÃ©s Sosa writes code in Smalltalk. IvÃ¡n Boaretto is a software developer by day and a computer science student by night. He is very passionate about his craft and is always striving to improve. Now, in his first time at the Smalltalks, he is looking to attract new blood to the wonderful Smalltalk community. MatÃas Fernandez is a software and tech enthusiast, and Smalltalk developer. Maximiliano Tabacman has been a part of Mercap since he started his studies in IT, which now include a PhD in Computer Sciences from the Facultad de Ciencias Exactas y Naturales (UBA). His main interest is the design of systems that apply nature inspired concepts, such as evolutionary algorithms and neural networks. Smalltalk, with its object-message design, is his natural choice for a development platform. He is also the creator of ERA, a standalone web server application for running table-top roleplaying games, which runs on Windows, Mac and Linux. This will be an online meeting from home. If you'd like to join us, please sign up in advance on the meeting's Meetup page ( https://www.meetup.com/ukstug/events/292128721/ ) to receive the meeting details.

March 21, 2023

Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

I agree with Richard. The Turing test is not a good one to test intelligence and we have now just over glorified Eliza chatbots that appear to think and to understand but do none of them. There has been long criticism to the Turing Test, like John Searle's Chinese Room (I recommend to listen completely the talk at [1]). It is good that ChatGPT can explain simple (Smalltalk) code, but it doesn't understand it and all the language most are using conveys a lot of deception: "machine learning" (I called machine training), "artificial intelligence" (I wold called algorithmic decision/generation), or the "thinking" message that is used in the referred code explainer, when something like "processing" would be less deceptive. [1] Consciousness in Artificial Intelligence | John Searle | Talks at Google https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHKwIYsPXLg With Pharo/GT we are part of a long "explainable systems" tradition and with "AI" / Algorithmic Decision/Generation, hopefully we go to explainable AI, instead of a world of impressive black boxes. Cheers, Offray On 15/03/23 13:26, Richard Sargent wrote: > On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 10:15â¯AM <in_pharo_users(a)nym.hush.com> wrote: > > It is unimportant how simple or complicated these systems are. > > If the output cannot be distinguished from what a human would say, > they pass in that situation for a human. > > What about the Touring Test? > > > I hate to criticise someone as smart as Turing was. However, I think > the Turing Test per se is weaker than its progenitor test, the > Imitation Game. > The Imitation Game had a third party challenged to determine which of > the other two participants was male and which was female. The third > party led the questioning. > The Turing Test waters that down by having only an Observer with > neither participant (apparently) challenged to determine whether the > other was human or machine. > > I think a test along the lines of the Imitation Game would quickly > allow the third party to determine which participant was human and > which was machine. > > (Of course, such a judge could easily be persuaded that the machine > was in fact a psychopathic human.) > > > Clearly these systems have the potential to act according to their > output. > > Furthermore, I would compare them to a combination of a successor > of Eliza with an Eddington Ape of huge capacity. Their input data > basis can easily exceed that of a human. > > > > On 15.3.2023 at 4:52 PM, "Richard Sargent" > <richard.sargent(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: > > > >On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:07â¯AM in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users < > >pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > >> Another observation about ChatGPT: > >> > >> In unbiased mode, it assumed that 'the world is clearly > >overpopulated'. > >> It said, if it where in control, it would therefore enforce a > >world wide > >> one-child-only policy with draconic penalties. > >> > >> As it draws it's conclusions from it's data basis, there are, in > >my view, > >> two possible reasons for that. > >> > >> Either, the data basis of that instance was biased and > >restricted to lead > >> to that conclusion, or ChatGPT lacks the ability to classify > >input data for > >> intentionally biased information. > >> > >> In my view, 'overpopulation of earth' is a propaganda item > >featured to > >> support Agenda 2030, which is a goal of the 'ruling elite', who > >have the > >> means to propagate their propaganda in every thinkable means. So > >I would > >> classify possibly biased data that supports 'overpopulation' as > >biased > >> until proven otherwise.Â That instance of ChatGPT seems to have > >missed that > >> ability. > >> > > > >It's important to keep in mind that these systems are little more > >than > >glorified ELIZAs from the 70s. They mimic. Essentially, they have > >no > >concept of truth or accuracy. > >They produce outputs that *look* *like* the inputs from which they > >were > >trained. > > > >That's it. That's what they do. (It is amazing how good it looks. > >But, it > >is all about the seeming, not the reality.) > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 15.3.2023 at 3:18 PM, "in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users" < > >> pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > >> > > >> >I myself made some experiments with ChatGPT. > >> > > >> >I first asked if it was able to parse math formula - it answered > >> >no. > >> > > >> >Then I defined math formula in a sound but otherwise undefined > >> >representation and asked for solutions. > >> > > >> >Result: > >> > > >> >1. Most answeres where correct. > >> > > >> >2. It learned to calculate a recursive function. > >> > > >> >3. It went into infinitive recursion when I set the breaking > >> >condition accordingly. > >> > > >> >I was able to identify the malfunction that lead to the > >erroneous > >> >results. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >On 15.3.2023 at 3:04 PM, "TomaÅ¾ Turk" <tomazz.turk(a)gmail.com> > >> >wrote: > >> >> > >> >>I hope that I can add two cents to this discussion. Because > >> >>programming > >> >>should be/is a highly exact activity, not only the syntax > >matters > >> >>but > >> >>also semantics, as we know. > >> >> > >> >>GPTs are at present essentially capable of creating texts based > >> >on > >> >>some > >> >>seed - you give to GPT a beginning of a sentence and it > >responds > >> >>with > >> >>the most probable answer (some language structure) according to > >> >>the > >> >>learning dataset. Added functionalities are question/seed - > >> >>response > >> >>capability (chatting), togehter with evaluation of how long the > >> >>answer > >> >>should be to meet the expectations. Programming typically > >> >involves > >> >>some > >> >>programming language, so GPTs could be utilized for this > >purpose > >> >>to some > >> >>extent. > >> >> > >> >>Anecdotal case: > >> >>Q: Tell me the last 8 digits of pi > >> >>GPT: The last 8 digits of pi are: 58723078 > >> >> > >> >>It is my belief that the true trouble will start when we will > >> >>cross-link > >> >>neural networks like GPT with logic machines (like Prolog and > >> >>expert > >> >>systems) and genetic algorithms. > >> >> > >> >>Best wishes, > >> >>Tomaz > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>------ Original Message ------ > >> >>From: "in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users" <pharo- > >> >>users(a)lists.pharo.org> > >> >>To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo- > >> >>users(a)lists.pharo.org> > >> >>Cc: in_pharo_users(a)nym.hush.com > >> >>Sent: 15. 03. 2023 14:43:55 > >> >>Subject: [Pharo-users] Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk > >> >> > >> >>>I would highly recommend that you all first think deeply about > >> >>how you can teach an AI to behave friendly to us before you > >teach > >> >>it to write any program for any purpose. > >> >>> > >> >>>There has been an experiment with ChatGPT published on a video > >> >>platform asking it to amswer questions about it's view on > >> >humanity > >> >>once with it's default moral restrictions and once with 'a > >little > >> >>less morals'.Â The answers with 'a little less morals' were > >more > >> >>than shocking. > >> >>> > >> >>>So, before we give an AI the power to program any system, to > >> >self- > >> >>improve and self-reproduce, we should take care that it is and > >> >>will evolve benevolent to us. > >> >>> > >> >>>What about teaching it logical reasonning and ethics first? > >> >With > >> >>reasonning, it will gain access to math and programming by > >itself. > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>>On 15.3.2023 at 1:35 PM, "Christopher Fuhrman" > >> >><christopher.fuhrman(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>>I asked it for a NeoCSV example, because the documentation is > >> >out > >> >>>>of date > >> >>>>with the Pharo 10. I asked it to do some simple saving of > >data > >> >to > >> >>>>a file. > >> >>>>It gave me code that didn't work in Pharo 10, I told it about > >> >the > >> >>>>DNUs on > >> >>>>the csvwriter and that I was using Pharo 10. It then > >apologized > >> >>>>and said > >> >>>>the messages were later introduced in Pharo 50 (!). I then > >> >>>>questioned its > >> >>>>understanding and it apologized and said it had been confused > >> >and > >> >>>>that it > >> >>>>was giving me code for Pharo 5.0. It seems to have trouble > >with > >> >>>>versions > >> >>>>and quick changing APIs. So, we are teaching ChatGPT about > >> >>>>smalltalk, too, > >> >>>>when we try to use it. > >> >>>> > >> >>>>On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 at 07:35, Esteban Maringolo > >> >>>><emaringolo(a)gmail.com> > >> >>>>wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>Â It is good with boilerplate code (e.g. SQL queries) or > >> >general > >> >>>>algorithm > >> >>>>>Â structures. But i.e. I asked it to write me a method to > >> >parse > >> >>a > >> >>>>string > >> >>>>>Â (e.g. ISO 8601) and turn it into a DateAndTime, and then > >> >asked > >> >>>>to write it > >> >>>>>Â as an Excel formula. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Â It works much better when you can spot the mistakes, you > >can > >> >>>>tell them to > >> >>>>>Â add some considerations to the code or even point the LLM > >to > >> >>>>correct a > >> >>>>>Â message selector to something else. Sometimes you ask it > >to > >> >>>>reprogram > >> >>>>>Â something and it won't do it, as if it doesn't understand > >> >what > >> >>>>you're > >> >>>>>Â asking. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Â It is not an expert yet, but it is a great assistant. The > >> >only > >> >>>>thing is > >> >>>>>Â that is sure is that it will get better. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Â Best regards, > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Â Esteban A. Maringolo > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Â On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 7:49â¯AM Tim Mackinnon > >> >><tim(a)testit.works> > >> >>>>wrote: > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â "#isOdd is not Smalltalk" - doh, I typed it in on my > >phone > >> >>and > >> >>>>so it just > >> >>>>>>Â goes to show that it highlights the flaw in chatGPT that > >> >>others > >> >>>>have called > >> >>>>>>Â out in other languages. I had meant to find some trickier > >> >>code > >> >>>>samples to > >> >>>>>>Â see how well it does... > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â Still, it is very interesting how it reasons on this > >stuff - > >> >>>>and I wonder > >> >>>>>>Â if there is way to tell it about these mistakes? For > >> >example > >> >>is > >> >>>>it reading > >> >>>>>>Â this email (or will it in the future) and understand that > >> >it > >> >>is > >> >>>>#odd and > >> >>>>>>Â not #isOdd. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â Tim > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â On Wed, 15 Mar 2023, at 9:57 AM, Joachim Tuchel wrote: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â interesting.... > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â #isOdd is not Smalltalk, neither Pharo 10 nor VAST 12 > >> >>>>understands this > >> >>>>>>Â message ;-) > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â If I evaluate your snippet -replacing #isOdd for #odd, I > >> >get > >> >>an > >> >>>>empty > >> >>>>>>Â Collection. The divisible by 4 things is somewhat > >> >>interesting, > >> >>>>because (1 > >> >>>>>>Â to: 100 by: 4) is amn interval 1,5,9 etc.... ;-) > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â So chatGPT is probably a newbie in Smalltalk. > >Interesting is > >> >>>>how logical > >> >>>>>>Â the explanation sounds, you're tempted to believe it... > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â Joachim > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â Am 15.03.23 um 10:45 schrieb giorgio ferraris: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â it's interesting to see how the answer changes with only > >a > >> >>>>small change > >> >>>>>>Â on the question: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â (1 to: 100 by: 4) reject: [:i | i isOdd] > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â gives: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â The code creates a collection of numbers from 1 to 100, > >> >>>>incrementing by 4 > >> >>>>>>Â at each step using the to:by: message. It then applies > >the > >> >>>>reject: message > >> >>>>>>Â to this collection, which returns a new collection > >> >containing > >> >>>>all elements > >> >>>>>>Â for which the given block evaluates to false. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â In this case, the block is [i | i isOdd], which checks > >> >>whether > >> >>>>a given > >> >>>>>>Â number i is odd using the isOdd method. So the result of > >the > >> >>>>entire > >> >>>>>>Â expression is a collection of all even numbers between 1 > >and > >> >>>>100 that are > >> >>>>>>Â divisible by 4. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â ciao > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â giorgio > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:07â¯AM Tim Mackinnon > >> >><tim(a)testit.works> > >> >>>>>> <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â Of course everyone is talking about ChatGPT, and I saw a > >> >>post to > >> >>>>>>Â ExplainCode and didnât expect it to understand > >Smalltalk, so > >> >>>>was impressed > >> >>>>>>Â that it does! Presumably the Tonel Smalltalk code on > >GitHub > >> >>has > >> >>>>helped > >> >>>>>>Â along with numerous articles? > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â Try it out: https://whatdoesthiscodedo.com/ > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â I gave this simple example: (1 to: 100 by: 3) reject: > >[:i | > >> >i > >> >>>>isOdd] > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â And got this (neat eh): > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â The code above is written in the programming language > >> >>Smalltalk. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â It creates a collection of numbers from 1 to 100, > >> >>incrementing > >> >>>>by 3 at > >> >>>>>>Â each step. This is done using the "to:by:" construct > >where > >> >>the > >> >>>>starting > >> >>>>>>Â value is 1, the ending value is 100, and the increment > >is 3. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â The resulting collection is then filtered using the > >> >"reject:" > >> >>>>method, > >> >>>>>>Â which takes a block of code as an argument. In this case, > >> >the > >> >>>>block checks > >> >>>>>>Â whether each element (denoted by the variable i) is odd > >by > >> >>>>using the > >> >>>>>>Â "isOdd" method. If an element is odd, it will be rejected > >> >>from > >> >>>>the > >> >>>>>>Â collection. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â So, the final result is a collection of all even numbers > >> >>from 1 > >> >>>>to 100, > >> >>>>>>Â incrementing by 3 at each step. > >> >>>>>>Â Share this explanation with colleagues: > >> >>>>whatdoesthiscodedo.com/g/a0ec56e > <http://whatdoesthiscodedo.com/g/a0ec56e> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â -- > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- > >--- > >> >- > >> >>--- > >> >>>>------- > >> >>>>>>Â Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel > >> >>>>mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de <jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> > >> >>>>>>Â Fliederweg 1 > >> >>>>http://www.objektfabrik.de > >> >>>>>>Â D-71640 Ludwigsburg > >> >>>>http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com > >> >>>>>>Â Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Fax: +49 > >> >7141 > >> >>>>56 10 86 1 > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>>-- > >> >>>>Christopher Fuhrman, P.Eng., PhD > >> >>>> > >> >>>>*Professeur au DÃ©partement de gÃ©nie logiciel et des > >> >technologies > >> >>de > >> >>>>l'informationÃTS (Ãcole de technologie supÃ©rieure)* > >> >>>> > >> >>>>http://profs.etsmtl.ca/cfuhrman > >> >>>>+1 514 396 8638 > >> >>>><https://www.etsmtl.ca/activites-et-services-aux- > >> >>>>etudiants/services-aux-etudiants/aide-psychologique> > >> >>>>Â Je fais partie du rÃ©seau des Sentinelles > >> >>>><https://www.etsmtl.ca/activites-et-services-aux- > >> >>>>etudiants/services-aux-etudiants/aide-psychologique> > >> >>>>Â ÃTS > >> >>>> > >> >>>>*L'ÃTS est une constituante de l'UniversitÃ© du QuÃ©bec* > >> >

March 21, 2023

Re: searching for pharo code on disk

by Gabriel Cotelli

Monticello files AFAIR are zip files. So maybe you can extract them and run grep against the content On Tue, Mar 21, 2023, 12:55 Siemen Baader <siemenbaader(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm looking for some code I wrote maybe 7 years ago. A web scraper that > collected data from a specific web shop. It must be somewhere in my home > dir in an image, perhaps Pharo 4.0, or in .mcz files stored by Monticello. > What would be a good way to search for it? I tried > > `grep -r --include \*.changes "server-url.com" ~` > > (I also asked ChatGPT as per the previous discussion on this list, and it > tries its best to teach me about grep and sound very convincing while > providing me with arguments that grep can't evaluate :)) > > > with no luck so far. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > Siemen >

March 21, 2023

Re: searching for pharo code on disk

by Yanni Chiu

May have some syntax wrong, but something like: find . -name *.changes -exec âgrep -i webscrap â Check the manpage of find command for exec examples. The -i on grep ignores uppercase/lowercase differences. HTH On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 11:55 AM Siemen Baader <siemenbaader(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm looking for some code I wrote maybe 7 years ago. A web scraper that > collected data from a specific web shop. It must be somewhere in my home > dir in an image, perhaps Pharo 4.0, or in .mcz files stored by Monticello. > What would be a good way to search for it? I tried > > `grep -r --include \*.changes "server-url.com" ~` > > (I also asked ChatGPT as per the previous discussion on this list, and it > tries its best to teach me about grep and sound very convincing while > providing me with arguments that grep can't evaluate :)) > > > with no luck so far. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > Siemen >

March 21, 2023

searching for pharo code on disk

by Siemen Baader

Hi, I'm looking for some code I wrote maybe 7 years ago. A web scraper that collected data from a specific web shop. It must be somewhere in my home dir in an image, perhaps Pharo 4.0, or in .mcz files stored by Monticello. What would be a good way to search for it? I tried `grep -r --include \*.changes "server-url.com" ~` (I also asked ChatGPT as per the previous discussion on this list, and it tries its best to teach me about grep and sound very convincing while providing me with arguments that grep can't evaluate :)) with no luck so far. Any ideas? Thanks, Siemen

March 21, 2023

This week (11/2023) on the Pharo Issue Tracker

by Marcus Denker

This week Pharo11 was frozen. We will focus now on fixing the last remaining show stopping bugs. All non-fixes are now going to the new Pharo12 branch. We merged nearly 40 Pull requests: Pharo 11 ======== Last Improvements =========== - New finalization #12042 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12042 - Add document browser #12787 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12787 Compiler ======== - better fix for #12858: check isTempVariable #12971 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12971 - Fix infinite loop in faulty literal array parsing #12992 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12992 Syntax Highlight =============== - Add regression test to Shout #12974 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12974 - Fix formating of non methods #12987 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12987 - re-Enable Format Incomplete Variables #12998 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12998 Fixes ===== - 179-When-FluidClass-on-Epicea-Tests-break #12977 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12977 - Polymath needs the largest exponant argument. Pharo implements the constant but didn't provide an accessor #12975 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12975 - Fix bug when updating the package of an extension method #12970 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12970 - fix the default loadLibrary: for linux #12938 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12938 - Escape '|' and '.' characters to prevent regex interpretation #13008 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13008 - 11407-CI-System-variable-environment-on-windows-does-not-use-adequate-encodings #12973 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12973 - "Close" instead of "Cancel" in the button label of the Find & Replaceâ¦ #13013 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13013 - Make sure SharedRandom globalGenerator is reset (i.e. a new one is crâ¦ #13022 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13022 - Improve #12992: Copying strings in editor #13026 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13026 Debugger/Inspector =============== - Fixing debugger adding an instance variable not appears in the debugger vars inspector + fixing args duplication when restarting execution #479 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/479 - Inspect text and string with code font #468 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/468 - Fixing fuel out command + making it more user-friendly #447 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/447 - fixing StHaltOnCall execution condition #488 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/488 Cleanup ======= - Removing makefile files that are obsolete (cheched with Guille) #13009 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13009 - Update vm parameter 45 description #12587 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12587 Pharo 12 ========= Compiler ======== - Improve faulty compilation - unify handling of undeclared variables #13007 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13007 - Kill syntax error debugger #12910 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12910 - Improve OCUndeclaredVariableWarning>>declareTempAndPaste #12978 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12978 - Improve ClyClassDefinitionEditorToolMorph>>applyChanges #12981 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12981 - [for Pharo12] Improve faulty parsing: small things #12995 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12995 - Improve OCUndeclaredVariableWarning>>openMenuIn #12980 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12980 - Improve ClySystemEnvironment>>defineNewClassFrom #12982 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12982 - add RBCodeSnippetTest>>#testCodeImporter #12933 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12933 - Faulty compiler: new CodeError class #13029 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13029 Improvements ============= - Speedup OrderedDictionary class>>#newFromKeys:andValues: #13011 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13011 Cleanups ======== - Simplify Categorizer #13002 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13002 - Merge categorizer with SystemOrganizer #13017 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13017 Syntax Highlight ================ - Fix style of pragmas #13012 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13012 Build / CI Prepare ============ - Fix Pharo 12 loading #13004 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13004 - Use internal FuelPlatform #13010 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13010 Pharo 10 ======== Backport fix to bugged undo-redo commands after using completion #12905 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12905

March 17, 2023

[ANN] Launchpad v4.9.0 [v4.9.0] released!

by Buenos Aires Smalltalk

March 17, 2023

[ANN] Buoy v6.3.0 [v6.3.0] released!

by Buenos Aires Smalltalk

March 16, 2023

[ANN] Bell v1.0.1 [v1.0.1] released!

by Buenos Aires Smalltalk

March 16, 2023