March 2023 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Smalltalk Meetup in Zurich, 12 May 2023

by Peter Ursprung

Hi all, We are organizing the next Smalltalk Meetup in Zurich, Switzerland. It will be on Friday, May 12, 2023, starting at 18:00. We will meet in a meeting room where we will have short Smalltalk talks, afterwards we will go to a restaurant nearby. If you are interested, please let me know until Sunday, May 7, I will send you the details including the precise location. Also, if you would like to present something, please let me know as well. There will be enough time for some more talks. Regards, Peter -- Ursprung Software Loren-Allee 18 â¢ 8610 Uster Telefon 044 450 72 72 â¢ info(a)ursprung.ch

March 31, 2023

This week (13/2023) on the Pharo Issue Tracker

by Marcus Denker

We again merged ~60 PRs. Pharo11 got some bugfixes and last improvements. In Pharo12, we continue the compiler refactoring and the cleanup of ClassOrganizer. Pharo11 ======= Last Improvements ================= - Add a way to know the real processor architecture #13124 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13124 - remove end line characters in returned value of processorArchitecture #13155 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13155 - Removing unused instance variable topContext in DebugContext #13179 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13179 - Add inspector extensions for Chronology #499 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/499 - More inspector extensions #497 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/497 Fixes ===== - 13181-DeprecationPerformedNotification-Automatic-deprecation-code-rewrite #13182 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13182 - implement #selectedClassOrMetaClass in MCTool to return nil #13167 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13167 - 13141-timesRepeat-does-not-work-on-nested-loops #13154 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13154 - 13122 rbparser cutting tokens in stepBar [Pharo11] #13129 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13129 - fixing the code update bug after compiling a missing method with the unfiltered stack #491 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/491 - Categorizing uncategorized classes in new tools debugger tests #500 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/500 - SpCodeInteractionModel>>#notify: Avoid crashing #1363 https://github.com/pharo-spec/Spec/pull/1363 - SpDropListExampleTest does not opens Playgorunds anymore #1359 https://github.com/pharo-spec/Spec/pull/1359 Pharo12 ======= Speed ===== - speedup-testNoShadowedVariablesInMethods #13170 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13170 - Speed up #assertCollection:hasSameElements: in case they are equals. #13144 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13144 ClassOrganizer Cleanup ====================== - Inline extensions of protocol organizer #13194 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13194 - ChangeRecord: rename category into protocol #13188 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13188 - Inline some protocol organizer behavior #13191 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13191 - remove commentSourcePointer from ClassOrganization #13176 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13176 - Set-CommentSourcepointer-ClassDescription #13171 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13171 - Update behaviour of #protocolNamed: #13173 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13173 - Simplify and deprecate ClassDescription>>allProtocolsUpTo: #13160 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13160 - ProtocolOrganizer cleanings #13169 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13169 - ClassComments-Via-Class #13168 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13168 - Rename #nullCategory into #nullProtocolName #13157 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13157 Compiler Cleanup ================ - Remove RBInstanceVariableNode crufts #13199 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13199 - Faulty code: Make OCUndeclaredVariableWarning a little less special #13186 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13186 - Compiler source code is String #13184 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13184 - Factorize recompile:from: #13180 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13180 - OpalCompiler gain install #13152 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13152 - Faulty code: improve code error descriptions #13174 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13174 - Faulty code: make OCASTSemanticAnalyzer (almost) faulty only #13165 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13165 - CodeImport - stop requestor madness #13162 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13162 - Faulty code - signal mainly CodeError #13164 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13164 - Faulty code improve scanner on error tokens #13135 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13135 - Faulty code: introduce invalid variables #13148 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13148 - CodeSnippet: can update itself thaks to metaprogramming and code transformation #13127 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13127 - Faulty code: cleanup CodeError #13163 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13163 - Faulty code: improve shadowing policy and implementation #13132 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13132 - Faulty code: improve error on unexpected block parameter #13133 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13133 - 13122 rbparser cutting tokens in stepBar [Pharo12] #13130 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13130 Refactoring Engine ================== - Refactorings clean up #13131 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13131 - Refactoring push down method command to use driver #13099 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13099 - Remove duplicated mocking #13151 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13151 Improvements ============= - Improve announcements printing #13178 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13178 - Clean copying methods of ClassDescription #13159 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13159 - More explicit error message for slot usage in bootstrap #13145 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13145 - move bootstrap/src into main src #13016 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13016 Cleanups ======== - OSPlatformTest should be in System-Platforms-Tests #13192 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13192 - Factorize announcement subscribers #13185 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13185 - Synch with p11 #13147 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13147

March 31, 2023

Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk

by danhunfeldz＠mail.com

I asked ChatGPT to write âHello, World!â in different esoteric programming languages: Kylix: `program HelloWorld; ` ` begin WriteLn('Hello, World!'); ` `end.` ActionScript (Flash 8): `trace("Hello, World!");` Limbo: `include "sys.m"; ` `include "draw.m"; ` `include "arg.m"; ` `draw->init(nil, "hello"); ` `sys->print("Hello, World!\n");` Alef: `include "sys.m"; ` `include "draw.m"; ` `init(nil, nil); ` `write("Hello, World!\n");` Alef was the predecessor of Limbo, which is the ancestor of Go. The results are not even close. ActionScript not even close. Kylix was wrong too. None of them are way out there. If anyone has worked on Plan 9 then they have heard of Alef and Limbo. Limbo is used for Inferno OS which was created from Plan 9 for set top boxes and came out about the same time as Java. What ChatGPT gave are not even starting points, except maybe Kylix and it derived the answer given from Delphi.

March 27, 2023

Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk

by Richard O'Keefe

I tried it on three "dead" languages: - a bubble-sort in Pop-2 - a system of linear equations solver in IMP-80 - the array concatenation example in SNOBOL 4 from Rosetta Code. It got the first one right -- despite 'array' access being written 'subscr(index, array)' -- and the second one almost right -- mistaking an nxn array for a 2n array. It got the third one (which I had stripped of comments) right too. It's impressive. And it's impressive because it's clearly NOT based on analysing a large corpus of code in the language you give it (because there IS no corpus of Pop-2 and the available corpus of IMP is both limited and very sparsely commented. Not much SNOBOL either. On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 at 20:07, Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: > Of course everyone is talking about ChatGPT, and I saw a post to > ExplainCode and didnât expect it to understand Smalltalk, so was impressed > that it does! Presumably the Tonel Smalltalk code on GitHub has helped > along with numerous articles? > > Try it out: https://whatdoesthiscodedo.com/ > > I gave this simple example: (1 to: 100 by: 3) reject: [:i | i isOdd] > > And got this (neat eh): > > The code above is written in the programming language Smalltalk. > > It creates a collection of numbers from 1 to 100, incrementing by 3 at > each step. This is done using the "to:by:" construct where the starting > value is 1, the ending value is 100, and the increment is 3. > > The resulting collection is then filtered using the "reject:" method, > which takes a block of code as an argument. In this case, the block checks > whether each element (denoted by the variable i) is odd by using the > "isOdd" method. If an element is odd, it will be rejected from the > collection. > > So, the final result is a collection of all even numbers from 1 to 100, > incrementing by 3 at each step. > Share this explanation with colleagues: whatdoesthiscodedo.com/g/a0ec56e >

March 27, 2023

Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Dear anonymous, Me neither. It is pretty difficult to make constructive discourse against hidden agendas, ulterior motives, self evident truths, sources absence or general affirmations without particular examples or detailed sustain. Offray On 26/03/23 14:16, in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users wrote: > Dear Offray, > > I have nothing to comment on this. > > --- > > In general I have made the observation that certain people who want to push an agenda to promote alterior motives tend to reiterate false prepositions and so false conclusions over and over. > > If there is an apodictic statement that contradicts their alterior motives, this people just can't help themselves but to deny truth against better knowledge ad nauseam. > > > On 26.3.2023 at 8:34 PM, "Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas" <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Comments inlined below: >> >> On 22/03/23 7:34, in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users wrote: >>> Offray, and to all others, >>> >>> you are missing the issue. >>> >>> The problem we face is not to measure 'intelligence' of a >> system, but it's ability to verbally act indistinguishable from a >> human. >>> This ability is allready given as chatbots are accepted by >> millions of users, f.i. as user interfaces. (measurement = 'true', >> right?) >>> ChatGPT has the ability to follow a certain intention, f.i. to >> convince the user to buy a certain product. For this purpose, >> chat bots are getting now equipped with life like portrait >> pictures, speech input and output systems with life like voices, >> phone numbers that they can use to make calls or being called. >> They are fed with all available data on the user, and we know that >> ALL information about every single internet user in available and >> is being consolidared on necessity. The chat bots are able to use >> this information to guide their conversational strategy, as the >> useful aspects of the users mindset are extracted from his >> internet activity. >>> These chat bots are now operated on social network platforms >> with life like names, 'pretending' to be human. >>> These bots act verbally indistinguishable from humans for most >> social media users, as the most advanced psychotronic technology >> to manufacture consent. >>> The first goal of such a propaganda will naturally be to >> manufacture consent about humans accepting being manipulated by AI >> chat bots, right? >> >> I don't think I have missed the point, as we agreed (I think) on >> chatbots not being intelligent, just having such appearance. That >> why >> I'm calling "AI" #ApparentIntelligence (in the sense of look >> alike, but >> not real). Of course, something looking like a real thing without >> being >> the real thing can be used for manipulation since the first times >> of >> gossip, printing press and now automatization, with the changes in >> scale/danger that such medium changes imply. >> >> I don't think that manufactured consent is so easy, as this very >> thread >> shows. What is being automated is manufactured polarization (but >> humans >> can do pretty well by our own on polarization). >> >> >>> How can this be achieved? >>> >>> Like allways in propaganda, the first attempt is to >>> - suppress awareness of the propaganda, then >>> - suppress the awareness of the problematic aspects of the >> propaganda content, then >>> - reframe the propaganda content as acceptable, then as >> something to wish for, >>> - achive collaboration of the propaganda victim with the goals >> of the propaganda content. >>> Interestingly, this is exactly the schema that your post >> follows, Offray. >> >> On the contrary, my post is advocating for a critical reading of >> Apparent Intelligence, by reframing the terms and the acritical >> technoutopic / technoapocalyptic readings/discourses that are >> spreading >> rapidly on the wider web, as I think that this community has shown >> an >> historical different position beyond/resisting hype and current >> trends. >> So I don't see how any of the steps you mention are "blueprint >> followed" >> in my post, and I think they will be difficult to locate without >> specific examples. >> >> >>> This often takes the form of domain framing, like we see in our >> conversation: the problem is shifted to the realm of academics - >> here informatics/computer sciences - and thus delegated to experts >> exclusively. We saw this in the 9/11 aftermath coverup. >>> Then, Offray, you established yourself as an expert in color, >> discussing aspects that have allready been introduced by others >> and including the groups main focus 'Smalltalk', thus >> manufacturing consent and establishing yourself as a reliable >> 'expert', and in reverse trying to hit at me, whom you have >> identified as an adversary. >>> Then you offered a solution in color to the problem at hand with >> 'traceable AI' and thus tried to open the possibility of >> collaboration with AI proponents for the once critical reader. >> >> Heh, heh. On the contrary seems that the one seeing a scheme and a >> enemies location/confrontation with deep plots and tactics is you. >> Providing external creditable sources beyond opinion, belonging to >> a >> established discursive falsafiable tradition (i.e. one that you >> can >> criticize instead of blindly accept) is a way to enrich >> discourse/argumentation beyond conspiracy theories. You could also >> quote >> your sources instead, which would allow the community to see where >> our >> positions are hold/sustained, even if we use different domain >> frames, >> which is better that claiming no domain or expertise in pursuit of >> openness. So instead of this are my opinions without any external >> source >> or reference to pretend no expertise or domain framing, we could >> advocate for openness by welcoming different expertise and >> argumentation >> and making our sources/bias as evident as possible. >> >> >>> I do not state, Offray, that you are knowingly an agent to >> promote the NWO AI program. I think you just 'learned' / have >> been programmed to be a successful academic software developer, >> because to be successful in academics, it is neccessary to learn >> to argue just like that since the downfall of academic science in >> the tradition of, let's say, Humboldt. So, I grant that you may >> be a victim of propaganda yourself, instead of being a secret >> service sposored agent. You took quite some time to formulate your >> post, though. >>> You acted to contain the discussion about AI in this vital and >> important informatics community to technical detail, when it is >> neccessary that academics and community members look beyond the >> narrow borders of their certifications and shift their thinking to >> the point of view where they can see what technology does in the >> real world. >>> >> I offered a view point with sources. In no way the discussion >> about >> Apparent Intelligence was contained and, on the contrary, I tried >> to >> offer arguments from cognition and philosophy, beyond technical >> details, >> which have been pretty absent in the general discourse and rush >> gold of >> technoutopism / technoapocalypse, conspiracy and paranoia. Other >> sources >> could be added to enrich and inform de conversation and they would >> be >> pretty welcomed (at least from me and several members I've known > >from >> this community) >> >> Best, >> >> Offray

March 26, 2023

Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk

by in_pharo_users＠nym.hush.com

Dear Offray, I have nothing to comment on this. --- In general I have made the observation that certain people who want to push an agenda to promote alterior motives tend to reiterate false prepositions and so false conclusions over and over. If there is an apodictic statement that contradicts their alterior motives, this people just can't help themselves but to deny truth against better knowledge ad nauseam. On 26.3.2023 at 8:34 PM, "Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas" <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > >Hi, > >Comments inlined below: > >On 22/03/23 7:34, in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users wrote: >> Offray, and to all others, >> >> you are missing the issue. >> >> The problem we face is not to measure 'intelligence' of a >system, but it's ability to verbally act indistinguishable from a >human. >> >> This ability is allready given as chatbots are accepted by >millions of users, f.i. as user interfaces. (measurement = 'true', >right?) >> >> ChatGPT has the ability to follow a certain intention, f.i. to >convince the user to buy a certain product. For this purpose, >chat bots are getting now equipped with life like portrait >pictures, speech input and output systems with life like voices, >phone numbers that they can use to make calls or being called. >They are fed with all available data on the user, and we know that >ALL information about every single internet user in available and >is being consolidared on necessity. The chat bots are able to use >this information to guide their conversational strategy, as the >useful aspects of the users mindset are extracted from his >internet activity. >> >> These chat bots are now operated on social network platforms >with life like names, 'pretending' to be human. >> >> These bots act verbally indistinguishable from humans for most >social media users, as the most advanced psychotronic technology >to manufacture consent. >> >> The first goal of such a propaganda will naturally be to >manufacture consent about humans accepting being manipulated by AI >chat bots, right? > >I don't think I have missed the point, as we agreed (I think) on >chatbots not being intelligent, just having such appearance. That >why >I'm calling "AI" #ApparentIntelligence (in the sense of look >alike, but >not real). Of course, something looking like a real thing without >being >the real thing can be used for manipulation since the first times >of >gossip, printing press and now automatization, with the changes in >scale/danger that such medium changes imply. > >I don't think that manufactured consent is so easy, as this very >thread >shows. What is being automated is manufactured polarization (but >humans >can do pretty well by our own on polarization). > > >> How can this be achieved? >> >> Like allways in propaganda, the first attempt is to >> - suppress awareness of the propaganda, then >> - suppress the awareness of the problematic aspects of the >propaganda content, then >> - reframe the propaganda content as acceptable, then as >something to wish for, >> - achive collaboration of the propaganda victim with the goals >of the propaganda content. >> >> Interestingly, this is exactly the schema that your post >follows, Offray. > >On the contrary, my post is advocating for a critical reading of >Apparent Intelligence, by reframing the terms and the acritical >technoutopic / technoapocalyptic readings/discourses that are >spreading >rapidly on the wider web, as I think that this community has shown >an >historical different position beyond/resisting hype and current >trends. >So I don't see how any of the steps you mention are "blueprint >followed" >in my post, and I think they will be difficult to locate without >specific examples. > > >> >> This often takes the form of domain framing, like we see in our >conversation: the problem is shifted to the realm of academics - >here informatics/computer sciences - and thus delegated to experts >exclusively. We saw this in the 9/11 aftermath coverup. >> >> Then, Offray, you established yourself as an expert in color, >discussing aspects that have allready been introduced by others >and including the groups main focus 'Smalltalk', thus >manufacturing consent and establishing yourself as a reliable >'expert', and in reverse trying to hit at me, whom you have >identified as an adversary. >> >> Then you offered a solution in color to the problem at hand with >'traceable AI' and thus tried to open the possibility of >collaboration with AI proponents for the once critical reader. > >Heh, heh. On the contrary seems that the one seeing a scheme and a >enemies location/confrontation with deep plots and tactics is you. >Providing external creditable sources beyond opinion, belonging to >a >established discursive falsafiable tradition (i.e. one that you >can >criticize instead of blindly accept) is a way to enrich >discourse/argumentation beyond conspiracy theories. You could also >quote >your sources instead, which would allow the community to see where >our >positions are hold/sustained, even if we use different domain >frames, >which is better that claiming no domain or expertise in pursuit of >openness. So instead of this are my opinions without any external >source >or reference to pretend no expertise or domain framing, we could >advocate for openness by welcoming different expertise and >argumentation >and making our sources/bias as evident as possible. > > >> >> I do not state, Offray, that you are knowingly an agent to >promote the NWO AI program. I think you just 'learned' / have >been programmed to be a successful academic software developer, >because to be successful in academics, it is neccessary to learn >to argue just like that since the downfall of academic science in >the tradition of, let's say, Humboldt. So, I grant that you may >be a victim of propaganda yourself, instead of being a secret >service sposored agent. You took quite some time to formulate your >post, though. >> >> You acted to contain the discussion about AI in this vital and >important informatics community to technical detail, when it is >neccessary that academics and community members look beyond the >narrow borders of their certifications and shift their thinking to >the point of view where they can see what technology does in the >real world. >> >> > >I offered a view point with sources. In no way the discussion >about >Apparent Intelligence was contained and, on the contrary, I tried >to >offer arguments from cognition and philosophy, beyond technical >details, >which have been pretty absent in the general discourse and rush >gold of >technoutopism / technoapocalypse, conspiracy and paranoia. Other >sources >could be added to enrich and inform de conversation and they would >be >pretty welcomed (at least from me and several members I've known >from >this community) > >Best, > >Offray

March 26, 2023

Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Hi, Comments inlined below: On 22/03/23 7:34, in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users wrote: > Offray, and to all others, > > you are missing the issue. > > The problem we face is not to measure 'intelligence' of a system, but it's ability to verbally act indistinguishable from a human. > > This ability is allready given as chatbots are accepted by millions of users, f.i. as user interfaces. (measurement = 'true', right?) > > ChatGPT has the ability to follow a certain intention, f.i. to convince the user to buy a certain product. For this purpose, chat bots are getting now equipped with life like portrait pictures, speech input and output systems with life like voices, phone numbers that they can use to make calls or being called. They are fed with all available data on the user, and we know that ALL information about every single internet user in available and is being consolidared on necessity. The chat bots are able to use this information to guide their conversational strategy, as the useful aspects of the users mindset are extracted from his internet activity. > > These chat bots are now operated on social network platforms with life like names, 'pretending' to be human. > > These bots act verbally indistinguishable from humans for most social media users, as the most advanced psychotronic technology to manufacture consent. > > The first goal of such a propaganda will naturally be to manufacture consent about humans accepting being manipulated by AI chat bots, right? I don't think I have missed the point, as we agreed (I think) on chatbots not being intelligent, just having such appearance. That why I'm calling "AI" #ApparentIntelligence (in the sense of look alike, but not real). Of course, something looking like a real thing without being the real thing can be used for manipulation since the first times of gossip, printing press and now automatization, with the changes in scale/danger that such medium changes imply. I don't think that manufactured consent is so easy, as this very thread shows. What is being automated is manufactured polarization (but humans can do pretty well by our own on polarization). > How can this be achieved? > > Like allways in propaganda, the first attempt is to > - suppress awareness of the propaganda, then > - suppress the awareness of the problematic aspects of the propaganda content, then > - reframe the propaganda content as acceptable, then as something to wish for, > - achive collaboration of the propaganda victim with the goals of the propaganda content. > > Interestingly, this is exactly the schema that your post follows, Offray. On the contrary, my post is advocating for a critical reading of Apparent Intelligence, by reframing the terms and the acritical technoutopic / technoapocalyptic readings/discourses that are spreading rapidly on the wider web, as I think that this community has shown an historical different position beyond/resisting hype and current trends. So I don't see how any of the steps you mention are "blueprint followed" in my post, and I think they will be difficult to locate without specific examples. > > This often takes the form of domain framing, like we see in our conversation: the problem is shifted to the realm of academics - here informatics/computer sciences - and thus delegated to experts exclusively. We saw this in the 9/11 aftermath coverup. > > Then, Offray, you established yourself as an expert in color, discussing aspects that have allready been introduced by others and including the groups main focus 'Smalltalk', thus manufacturing consent and establishing yourself as a reliable 'expert', and in reverse trying to hit at me, whom you have identified as an adversary. > > Then you offered a solution in color to the problem at hand with 'traceable AI' and thus tried to open the possibility of collaboration with AI proponents for the once critical reader. Heh, heh. On the contrary seems that the one seeing a scheme and a enemies location/confrontation with deep plots and tactics is you. Providing external creditable sources beyond opinion, belonging to a established discursive falsafiable tradition (i.e. one that you can criticize instead of blindly accept) is a way to enrich discourse/argumentation beyond conspiracy theories. You could also quote your sources instead, which would allow the community to see where our positions are hold/sustained, even if we use different domain frames, which is better that claiming no domain or expertise in pursuit of openness. So instead of this are my opinions without any external source or reference to pretend no expertise or domain framing, we could advocate for openness by welcoming different expertise and argumentation and making our sources/bias as evident as possible. > > I do not state, Offray, that you are knowingly an agent to promote the NWO AI program. I think you just 'learned' / have been programmed to be a successful academic software developer, because to be successful in academics, it is neccessary to learn to argue just like that since the downfall of academic science in the tradition of, let's say, Humboldt. So, I grant that you may be a victim of propaganda yourself, instead of being a secret service sposored agent. You took quite some time to formulate your post, though. > > You acted to contain the discussion about AI in this vital and important informatics community to technical detail, when it is neccessary that academics and community members look beyond the narrow borders of their certifications and shift their thinking to the point of view where they can see what technology does in the real world. > > I offered a view point with sources. In no way the discussion about Apparent Intelligence was contained and, on the contrary, I tried to offer arguments from cognition and philosophy, beyond technical details, which have been pretty absent in the general discourse and rush gold of technoutopism / technoapocalypse, conspiracy and paranoia. Other sources could be added to enrich and inform de conversation and they would be pretty welcomed (at least from me and several members I've known from this community) Best, Offray

March 26, 2023

This week (12/2023) on the Pharo Issue Tracker. We merged >60 PRs

by Marcus Denker

We merged >60 PRs Of those just 16 for Pharo11, the rest are major cleanups/fixes/speedups in Pharo12. Pharo11 ======= - Disable ReCompactSourceCodeRule for p11 #13075 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13075 - Setting image version in the header of the image file #12954 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12954 - Sync zinc #12824 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12824 Bugs ==== - 12948-Broken-ast-method-on-compiled-block #13094 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13094 - Improving debug session to be able customize debug contexts model #13112 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13112 - add includes: to FinalizationRegistry. #13110 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13110 - fixes case sensitive string literal search (use Ctrl+Shift+U shortcut) #1310 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13103 - add shortcuts to string literal search, fix case insensitive search #1362 https://github.com/pharo-spec/Spec/pull/1362 - fix duplicated repos in Iceberg #13074 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13074 - Patch PNGReadWriter to allow and ignore excess chunks after IEND #13049 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13049 - 13051 improve the memory allocation of sequenceable collection runningof #13052 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13052 - Ensuring that Calypso catches any NotFound errors that could appear when a breakpoint on a test under debug doesn' exist anymore #13021 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13021 - Refactoring debugger extension system to update extensions in all debuggers dynamically, when an extension is (un)activated #481 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/481 - Fix two deprecated #asOrderedCollection sends #490 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/490 - skip testDoEvaluateDeclareGlobal for now #492 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/492 - skip another testDoEvaluateDeclareGlobal for now #493 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/493 Pharo 12 ======== Major work continuesâ¦ of note are the speed improvements. SystemOrganizer now uses a dictionary and we enabled primitive 158 for string comparison, just to name two. Speed ===== - Use primitive 158 for string comparison #12878 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12878 - Speed up FreeTypeFont>>widthOf: #13116 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13116 - Speed up in rpackage #13086 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13086 - Use dictionary in SystemOrganizer #13023 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13023 - Some various speedup #13067 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13067 - Do not fire systemClassRecategorizedActionFrom: everytime #13066 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13066 - Speedup RBBrowserEnvironment>>#classesInPackages:do: #13056 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13056 Category/Protocols Cleanup ================= - ClassOrganization>>#classify:under:suppressIfDefault: is always called with the same parameter #13082 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13082 - Rename ClassOrganization #*category* into #*protocolName* #13019 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13019 - Some cleanings of ClassDescription #13046 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13046 - Unify package unregistration #13040 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13040 Compiler ======== - Faulty compiler: new CodeError class #13029 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13029 - Code Snippets: extends tests to check notices #13115 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13115 - RBCodeSnippet format, tidify and better default mechanism #13109 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13109 - Faulty code: position fixes on some ast nodes (and various cleanup) #13098 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13098 - Compiler gets permitFaulty #13084 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13084 - Fauty code: RBParser parse only faulty code #13080 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13080 - Faulty code: keep AST and source information in faulty CompiledMethod #13087 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13087 - RFC: RBNotice to reify error and warning messages on AST nodes #13057 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13057 - Faulty code: strip OCUndeclaredVariableWarning of its reparation duties #13055 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13055 - Make unreachable statements a warning instead of an error #13050 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13050 - Compiler: stop playing notification pingpong #13047 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13047 - Faulty parser - better error position and messages #13044 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13044 - Faulty code - test Monticello #13036 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13036 - Compiler: remove getSourceFromRequestorSelection #13045 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13045 - Faulty parsing: change logic of errorBlock #13042 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13042 - Tests that CI handle properly Syntax Errors during tests #12785 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12785 - Faulty code: CodeError are resumable #13037 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13037 - Improve faulty compilation - unify handling of undeclared variables #13007 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13007 Compiler/Tools ============= - Rubric/Calypso improve menu entries (especially browse) #13095 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13095 - Fix #13107 cannot remove used slot #13118 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13118 - RubSmalltalkEditor-remove-reference-RBParser #13091 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13091 - Calypso editor: stop inserting -> #13073 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13073 Improvements =========== - LongMessageDialogWindow wraps the text #13117 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13117 - Refactoring push up method: introduce driver #12867 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12867 - Fix refacotring bug #13069 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13069 Bootstrap/CI/Housekeeping ========= - Add some timestamps and logs to the bootstrap #13106 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13106 - Remove travis file #13105 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13105 - Make documentation more readable on github #13093 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13093 - Synch with p11 (To get ombu fix crashing the CI) #13081 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13081 - Synch with p11 #13077 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13077 - Log the package been tested on CI. #13038 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13038 Cleanups ======== - Move machineEpsilon to Float. #13078 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13078 - 12996-Remove-ReLiteralArrayContainsSuspiciousTrueFalseOrNilRule #13092 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13092

March 24, 2023

Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk

by in_pharo_users＠nym.hush.com

Dear James, anonymity may not be important to presenting these ideas in general, but I prefer to stay pseudonymous in this case. On 22.3.2023 at 4:16 PM, "James Foster via Pharo-users" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > >Are you willing to sign your name to this? Is anonymity important >to presenting these ideas? > >James Foster > >> On Mar 22, 2023, at 5:34 AM, in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users ><pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> >> Offray, and to all others, >> >> you are missing the issue. >> >> The problem we face is not to measure 'intelligence' of a >system, but it's ability to verbally act indistinguishable from a >human. >> >> This ability is allready given as chatbots are accepted by >millions of users, f.i. as user interfaces. (measurement = 'true', >right?) >> >> ChatGPT has the ability to follow a certain intention, f.i. to >convince the user to buy a certain product. For this purpose, >chat bots are getting now equipped with life like portrait >pictures, speech input and output systems with life like voices, >phone numbers that they can use to make calls or being called. >They are fed with all available data on the user, and we know that >ALL information about every single internet user in available and >is being consolidared on necessity. The chat bots are able to use >this information to guide their conversational strategy, as the >useful aspects of the users mindset are extracted from his >internet activity. >> >> These chat bots are now operated on social network platforms >with life like names, 'pretending' to be human. >> >> These bots act verbally indistinguishable from humans for most >social media users, as the most advanced psychotronic technology >to manufacture consent. >> >> The first goal of such a propaganda will naturally be to >manufacture consent about humans accepting being manipulated by AI >chat bots, right? >> >> How can this be achieved? >> >> Like allways in propaganda, the first attempt is to >> - suppress awareness of the propaganda, then >> - suppress the awareness of the problematic aspects of the >propaganda content, then >> - reframe the propaganda content as acceptable, then as >something to wish for, >> - achive collaboration of the propaganda victim with the goals >of the propaganda content. >> >> Interestingly, this is exactly the schema that your post >follows, Offray. >> >> This often takes the form of domain framing, like we see in our >conversation: the problem is shifted to the realm of academics - >here informatics/computer sciences - and thus delegated to experts >exclusively. We saw this in the 9/11 aftermath coverup. >> >> Then, Offray, you established yourself as an expert in color, >discussing aspects that have allready been introduced by others >and including the groups main focus 'Smalltalk', thus >manufacturing consent and establishing yourself as a reliable >'expert', and in reverse trying to hit at me, whom you have >identified as an adversary. >> >> Then you offered a solution in color to the problem at hand with >'traceable AI' and thus tried to open the possibility of >collaboration with AI proponents for the once critical reader. >> >> I do not state, Offray, that you are knowingly an agent to >promote the NWO AI program. I think you just 'learned' / have >been programmed to be a successful academic software developer, >because to be successful in academics, it is neccessary to learn >to argue just like that since the downfall of academic science in >the tradition of, let's say, Humboldt. So, I grant that you may >be a victim of propaganda yourself, instead of being a secret >service sposored agent. You took quite some time to formulate your >post, though. >> >> You acted to contain the discussion about AI in this vital and >important informatics community to technical detail, when it is >neccessary that academics and community members look beyond the >narrow borders of their certifications and shift their thinking to >the point of view where they can see what technology does in the >real world. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 21.3.2023 at 7:21 PM, "Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas" ><offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: >>> >>> I agree with Richard. The Turing test is not a good one to test >>> intelligence and we have now just over glorified Eliza chatbots >>> that >>> appear to think and to understand but do none of them. ...

March 22, 2023

Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk

by James Foster

Are you willing to sign your name to this? Is anonymity important to presenting these ideas? James Foster > On Mar 22, 2023, at 5:34 AM, in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > Offray, and to all others, > > you are missing the issue. > > The problem we face is not to measure 'intelligence' of a system, but it's ability to verbally act indistinguishable from a human. > > This ability is allready given as chatbots are accepted by millions of users, f.i. as user interfaces. (measurement = 'true', right?) > > ChatGPT has the ability to follow a certain intention, f.i. to convince the user to buy a certain product. For this purpose, chat bots are getting now equipped with life like portrait pictures, speech input and output systems with life like voices, phone numbers that they can use to make calls or being called. They are fed with all available data on the user, and we know that ALL information about every single internet user in available and is being consolidared on necessity. The chat bots are able to use this information to guide their conversational strategy, as the useful aspects of the users mindset are extracted from his internet activity. > > These chat bots are now operated on social network platforms with life like names, 'pretending' to be human. > > These bots act verbally indistinguishable from humans for most social media users, as the most advanced psychotronic technology to manufacture consent. > > The first goal of such a propaganda will naturally be to manufacture consent about humans accepting being manipulated by AI chat bots, right? > > How can this be achieved? > > Like allways in propaganda, the first attempt is to > - suppress awareness of the propaganda, then > - suppress the awareness of the problematic aspects of the propaganda content, then > - reframe the propaganda content as acceptable, then as something to wish for, > - achive collaboration of the propaganda victim with the goals of the propaganda content. > > Interestingly, this is exactly the schema that your post follows, Offray. > > This often takes the form of domain framing, like we see in our conversation: the problem is shifted to the realm of academics - here informatics/computer sciences - and thus delegated to experts exclusively. We saw this in the 9/11 aftermath coverup. > > Then, Offray, you established yourself as an expert in color, discussing aspects that have allready been introduced by others and including the groups main focus 'Smalltalk', thus manufacturing consent and establishing yourself as a reliable 'expert', and in reverse trying to hit at me, whom you have identified as an adversary. > > Then you offered a solution in color to the problem at hand with 'traceable AI' and thus tried to open the possibility of collaboration with AI proponents for the once critical reader. > > I do not state, Offray, that you are knowingly an agent to promote the NWO AI program. I think you just 'learned' / have been programmed to be a successful academic software developer, because to be successful in academics, it is neccessary to learn to argue just like that since the downfall of academic science in the tradition of, let's say, Humboldt. So, I grant that you may be a victim of propaganda yourself, instead of being a secret service sposored agent. You took quite some time to formulate your post, though. > > You acted to contain the discussion about AI in this vital and important informatics community to technical detail, when it is neccessary that academics and community members look beyond the narrow borders of their certifications and shift their thinking to the point of view where they can see what technology does in the real world. > > > > > > On 21.3.2023 at 7:21 PM, "Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas" <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: >> >> I agree with Richard. The Turing test is not a good one to test >> intelligence and we have now just over glorified Eliza chatbots >> that >> appear to think and to understand but do none of them. ...

March 22, 2023

Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk

by in_pharo_users＠nym.hush.com

Offray, and to all others, you are missing the issue. The problem we face is not to measure 'intelligence' of a system, but it's ability to verbally act indistinguishable from a human. This ability is allready given as chatbots are accepted by millions of users, f.i. as user interfaces. (measurement = 'true', right?) ChatGPT has the ability to follow a certain intention, f.i. to convince the user to buy a certain product. For this purpose, chat bots are getting now equipped with life like portrait pictures, speech input and output systems with life like voices, phone numbers that they can use to make calls or being called. They are fed with all available data on the user, and we know that ALL information about every single internet user in available and is being consolidared on necessity. The chat bots are able to use this information to guide their conversational strategy, as the useful aspects of the users mindset are extracted from his internet activity. These chat bots are now operated on social network platforms with life like names, 'pretending' to be human. These bots act verbally indistinguishable from humans for most social media users, as the most advanced psychotronic technology to manufacture consent. The first goal of such a propaganda will naturally be to manufacture consent about humans accepting being manipulated by AI chat bots, right? How can this be achieved? Like allways in propaganda, the first attempt is to - suppress awareness of the propaganda, then - suppress the awareness of the problematic aspects of the propaganda content, then - reframe the propaganda content as acceptable, then as something to wish for, - achive collaboration of the propaganda victim with the goals of the propaganda content. Interestingly, this is exactly the schema that your post follows, Offray. This often takes the form of domain framing, like we see in our conversation: the problem is shifted to the realm of academics - here informatics/computer sciences - and thus delegated to experts exclusively. We saw this in the 9/11 aftermath coverup. Then, Offray, you established yourself as an expert in color, discussing aspects that have allready been introduced by others and including the groups main focus 'Smalltalk', thus manufacturing consent and establishing yourself as a reliable 'expert', and in reverse trying to hit at me, whom you have identified as an adversary. Then you offered a solution in color to the problem at hand with 'traceable AI' and thus tried to open the possibility of collaboration with AI proponents for the once critical reader. I do not state, Offray, that you are knowingly an agent to promote the NWO AI program. I think you just 'learned' / have been programmed to be a successful academic software developer, because to be successful in academics, it is neccessary to learn to argue just like that since the downfall of academic science in the tradition of, let's say, Humboldt. So, I grant that you may be a victim of propaganda yourself, instead of being a secret service sposored agent. You took quite some time to formulate your post, though. You acted to contain the discussion about AI in this vital and important informatics community to technical detail, when it is neccessary that academics and community members look beyond the narrow borders of their certifications and shift their thinking to the point of view where they can see what technology does in the real world. On 21.3.2023 at 7:21 PM, "Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas" <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > >I agree with Richard. The Turing test is not a good one to test >intelligence and we have now just over glorified Eliza chatbots >that >appear to think and to understand but do none of them. > >There has been long criticism to the Turing Test, like John >Searle's >Chinese Room (I recommend to listen completely the talk at [1]). >It is >good that ChatGPT can explain simple (Smalltalk) code, but it >doesn't >understand it and all the language most are using conveys a lot of >deception: "machine learning" (I called machine training), >"artificial >intelligence" (I wold called algorithmic decision/generation), or >the >"thinking" message that is used in the referred code explainer, >when >something like "processing" would be less deceptive. > >[1] Consciousness in Artificial Intelligence | John Searle | Talks >at Google >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHKwIYsPXLg > >With Pharo/GT we are part of a long "explainable systems" >tradition and >with "AI" / Algorithmic Decision/Generation, hopefully we go to >explainable AI, instead of a world of impressive black boxes. > > >Cheers, > >Offray > >On 15/03/23 13:26, Richard Sargent wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 10:15â¯AM <in_pharo_users(a)nym.hush.com> >wrote: >> >> It is unimportant how simple or complicated these systems >are. >> >> If the output cannot be distinguished from what a human >would say, >> they pass in that situation for a human. >> >> What about the Touring Test? >> >> >> I hate to criticise someone as smart as Turing was. However, I >think >> the Turing Test per se is weaker than its progenitor test, the >> Imitation Game. >> The Imitation Game had a third party challenged to determine >which of >> the other two participants was male and which was female. The >third >> party led the questioning. >> The Turing Test waters that down by having only an Observer with >> neither participant (apparently) challenged to determine whether >the >> other was human or machine. >> >> I think a test along the lines of the Imitation Game would >quickly >> allow the third party to determine which participant was human >and >> which was machine. >> >> (Of course, such a judge could easily be persuaded that the >machine >> was in fact a psychopathic human.) >> >> >> Clearly these systems have the potential to act according to >their >> output. >> >> Furthermore, I would compare them to a combination of a >successor >> of Eliza with an Eddington Ape of huge capacity. Their input >data >> basis can easily exceed that of a human. >> >> >> >> On 15.3.2023 at 4:52 PM, "Richard Sargent" >> <richard.sargent(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: >> > >> >On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:07â¯AM in_pharo_users--- via Pharo- >users < >> >pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> > >> >> Another observation about ChatGPT: >> >> >> >> In unbiased mode, it assumed that 'the world is clearly >> >overpopulated'. >> >> It said, if it where in control, it would therefore >enforce a >> >world wide >> >> one-child-only policy with draconic penalties. >> >> >> >> As it draws it's conclusions from it's data basis, there >are, in >> >my view, >> >> two possible reasons for that. >> >> >> >> Either, the data basis of that instance was biased and >> >restricted to lead >> >> to that conclusion, or ChatGPT lacks the ability to >classify >> >input data for >> >> intentionally biased information. >> >> >> >> In my view, 'overpopulation of earth' is a propaganda item >> >featured to >> >> support Agenda 2030, which is a goal of the 'ruling >elite', who >> >have the >> >> means to propagate their propaganda in every thinkable >means. So >> >I would >> >> classify possibly biased data that supports >'overpopulation' as >> >biased >> >> until proven otherwise.Â That instance of ChatGPT seems >to have >> >missed that >> >> ability. >> >> >> > >> >It's important to keep in mind that these systems are >little more >> >than >> >glorified ELIZAs from the 70s. They mimic. Essentially, >they have >> >no >> >concept of truth or accuracy. >> >They produce outputs that *look* *like* the inputs from >which they >> >were >> >trained. >> > >> >That's it. That's what they do. (It is amazing how good it >looks. >> >But, it >> >is all about the seeming, not the reality.) >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 15.3.2023 at 3:18 PM, "in_pharo_users--- via Pharo- >users" < >> >> pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >I myself made some experiments with ChatGPT. >> >> > >> >> >I first asked if it was able to parse math formula - it >answered >> >> >no. >> >> > >> >> >Then I defined math formula in a sound but otherwise >undefined >> >> >representation and asked for solutions. >> >> > >> >> >Result: >> >> > >> >> >1. Most answeres where correct. >> >> > >> >> >2. It learned to calculate a recursive function. >> >> > >> >> >3. It went into infinitive recursion when I set the >breaking >> >> >condition accordingly. >> >> > >> >> >I was able to identify the malfunction that lead to the >> >erroneous >> >> >results. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >On 15.3.2023 at 3:04 PM, "TomaÅ¾ Turk" ><tomazz.turk(a)gmail.com> >> >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>I hope that I can add two cents to this discussion. >Because >> >> >>programming >> >> >>should be/is a highly exact activity, not only the >syntax >> >matters >> >> >>but >> >> >>also semantics, as we know. >> >> >> >> >> >>GPTs are at present essentially capable of creating >texts based >> >> >on >> >> >>some >> >> >>seed - you give to GPT a beginning of a sentence and it >> >responds >> >> >>with >> >> >>the most probable answer (some language structure) >according to >> >> >>the >> >> >>learning dataset. Added functionalities are >question/seed - >> >> >>response >> >> >>capability (chatting), togehter with evaluation of how >long the >> >> >>answer >> >> >>should be to meet the expectations. Programming >typically >> >> >involves >> >> >>some >> >> >>programming language, so GPTs could be utilized for this >> >purpose >> >> >>to some >> >> >>extent. >> >> >> >> >> >>Anecdotal case: >> >> >>Q: Tell me the last 8 digits of pi >> >> >>GPT: The last 8 digits of pi are: 58723078 >> >> >> >> >> >>It is my belief that the true trouble will start when >we will >> >> >>cross-link >> >> >>neural networks like GPT with logic machines (like >Prolog and >> >> >>expert >> >> >>systems) and genetic algorithms. >> >> >> >> >> >>Best wishes, >> >> >>Tomaz >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>------ Original Message ------ >> >> >>From: "in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users" <pharo- >> >> >>users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> >> >>To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo- >> >> >>users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> >> >>Cc: in_pharo_users(a)nym.hush.com >> >> >>Sent: 15. 03. 2023 14:43:55 >> >> >>Subject: [Pharo-users] Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands >Smalltalk >> >> >> >> >> >>>I would highly recommend that you all first think >deeply about >> >> >>how you can teach an AI to behave friendly to us before >you >> >teach >> >> >>it to write any program for any purpose. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>There has been an experiment with ChatGPT published on >a video >> >> >>platform asking it to amswer questions about it's view >on >> >> >humanity >> >> >>once with it's default moral restrictions and once with >'a >> >little >> >> >>less morals'.Â The answers with 'a little less morals' >were >> >more >> >> >>than shocking. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>So, before we give an AI the power to program any >system, to >> >> >self- >> >> >>improve and self-reproduce, we should take care that it >is and >> >> >>will evolve benevolent to us. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>What about teaching it logical reasonning and ethics >first? >> >> >With >> >> >>reasonning, it will gain access to math and programming >by >> >itself. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>>On 15.3.2023 at 1:35 PM, "Christopher Fuhrman" >> >> >><christopher.fuhrman(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>I asked it for a NeoCSV example, because the >documentation is >> >> >out >> >> >>>>of date >> >> >>>>with the Pharo 10. I asked it to do some simple >saving of >> >data >> >> >to >> >> >>>>a file. >> >> >>>>It gave me code that didn't work in Pharo 10, I told >it about >> >> >the >> >> >>>>DNUs on >> >> >>>>the csvwriter and that I was using Pharo 10. It then >> >apologized >> >> >>>>and said >> >> >>>>the messages were later introduced in Pharo 50 (!). I >then >> >> >>>>questioned its >> >> >>>>understanding and it apologized and said it had been >confused >> >> >and >> >> >>>>that it >> >> >>>>was giving me code for Pharo 5.0. It seems to have >trouble >> >with >> >> >>>>versions >> >> >>>>and quick changing APIs. So, we are teaching ChatGPT >about >> >> >>>>smalltalk, too, >> >> >>>>when we try to use it. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 at 07:35, Esteban Maringolo >> >> >>>><emaringolo(a)gmail.com> >> >> >>>>wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>Â It is good with boilerplate code (e.g. SQL >queries) or >> >> >general >> >> >>>>algorithm >> >> >>>>>Â structures. But i.e. I asked it to write me a >method to >> >> >parse >> >> >>a >> >> >>>>string >> >> >>>>>Â (e.g. ISO 8601) and turn it into a DateAndTime, >and then >> >> >asked >> >> >>>>to write it >> >> >>>>>Â as an Excel formula. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>Â It works much better when you can spot the >mistakes, you >> >can >> >> >>>>tell them to >> >> >>>>>Â add some considerations to the code or even point >the LLM >> >to >> >> >>>>correct a >> >> >>>>>Â message selector to something else. Sometimes you >ask it >> >to >> >> >>>>reprogram >> >> >>>>>Â something and it won't do it, as if it doesn't >understand >> >> >what >> >> >>>>you're >> >> >>>>>Â asking. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>Â It is not an expert yet, but it is a great >assistant. The >> >> >only >> >> >>>>thing is >> >> >>>>>Â that is sure is that it will get better. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>Â Best regards, >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>Â Esteban A. Maringolo >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>Â On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 7:49â¯AM Tim Mackinnon >> >> >><tim(a)testit.works> >> >> >>>>wrote: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â "#isOdd is not Smalltalk" - doh, I typed it in on >my >> >phone >> >> >>and >> >> >>>>so it just >> >> >>>>>>Â goes to show that it highlights the flaw in >chatGPT that >> >> >>others >> >> >>>>have called >> >> >>>>>>Â out in other languages. I had meant to find some >trickier >> >> >>code >> >> >>>>samples to >> >> >>>>>>Â see how well it does... >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â Still, it is very interesting how it reasons on >this >> >stuff - >> >> >>>>and I wonder >> >> >>>>>>Â if there is way to tell it about these mistakes? >For >> >> >example >> >> >>is >> >> >>>>it reading >> >> >>>>>>Â this email (or will it in the future) and >understand that >> >> >it >> >> >>is >> >> >>>>#odd and >> >> >>>>>>Â not #isOdd. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â Tim >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â On Wed, 15 Mar 2023, at 9:57 AM, Joachim Tuchel >wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â interesting.... >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â #isOdd is not Smalltalk, neither Pharo 10 nor >VAST 12 >> >> >>>>understands this >> >> >>>>>>Â message ;-) >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â If I evaluate your snippet -replacing #isOdd for >#odd, I >> >> >get >> >> >>an >> >> >>>>empty >> >> >>>>>>Â Collection. The divisible by 4 things is somewhat >> >> >>interesting, >> >> >>>>because (1 >> >> >>>>>>Â to: 100 by: 4) is amn interval 1,5,9 etc.... ;-) >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â So chatGPT is probably a newbie in Smalltalk. >> >Interesting is >> >> >>>>how logical >> >> >>>>>>Â the explanation sounds, you're tempted to believe >it... >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â Joachim >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â Am 15.03.23 um 10:45 schrieb giorgio ferraris: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â it's interesting to see how the answer changes >with only >> >a >> >> >>>>small change >> >> >>>>>>Â on the question: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â (1 to: 100 by: 4) reject: [:i | i isOdd] >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â gives: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â The code creates a collection of numbers from 1 >to 100, >> >> >>>>incrementing by 4 >> >> >>>>>>Â at each step using the to:by: message. It then >applies >> >the >> >> >>>>reject: message >> >> >>>>>>Â to this collection, which returns a new collection >> >> >containing >> >> >>>>all elements >> >> >>>>>>Â for which the given block evaluates to false. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â In this case, the block is [i | i isOdd], which >checks >> >> >>whether >> >> >>>>a given >> >> >>>>>>Â number i is odd using the isOdd method. So the >result of >> >the >> >> >>>>entire >> >> >>>>>>Â expression is a collection of all even numbers >between 1 >> >and >> >> >>>>100 that are >> >> >>>>>>Â divisible by 4. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â ciao >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â giorgio >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:07â¯AM Tim Mackinnon >> >> >><tim(a)testit.works> >> >> >>>>>> <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â Of course everyone is talking about ChatGPT, and >I saw a >> >> >>post to >> >> >>>>>>Â ExplainCode and didnât expect it to understand >> >Smalltalk, so >> >> >>>>was impressed >> >> >>>>>>Â that it does! Presumably the Tonel Smalltalk code >on >> >GitHub >> >> >>has >> >> >>>>helped >> >> >>>>>>Â along with numerous articles? >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â Try it out: https://whatdoesthiscodedo.com/ >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â I gave this simple example: (1 to: 100 by: 3) >reject: >> >[:i | >> >> >i >> >> >>>>isOdd] >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â And got this (neat eh): >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â The code above is written in the programming >language >> >> >>Smalltalk. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â It creates a collection of numbers from 1 to 100, >> >> >>incrementing >> >> >>>>by 3 at >> >> >>>>>>Â each step. This is done using the "to:by:" >construct >> >where >> >> >>the >> >> >>>>starting >> >> >>>>>>Â value is 1, the ending value is 100, and the >increment >> >is 3. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â The resulting collection is then filtered using >the >> >> >"reject:" >> >> >>>>method, >> >> >>>>>>Â which takes a block of code as an argument. In >this case, >> >> >the >> >> >>>>block checks >> >> >>>>>>Â whether each element (denoted by the variable i) >is odd >> >by >> >> >>>>using the >> >> >>>>>>Â "isOdd" method. If an element is odd, it will be >rejected >> >> >>from >> >> >>>>the >> >> >>>>>>Â collection. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â So, the final result is a collection of all even >numbers >> >> >>from 1 >> >> >>>>to 100, >> >> >>>>>>Â incrementing by 3 at each step. >> >> >>>>>>Â Share this explanation with colleagues: >> >> >>>>whatdoesthiscodedo.com/g/a0ec56e >> <http://whatdoesthiscodedo.com/g/a0ec56e> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Â -- >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >------ >> >--- >> >> >- >> >> >>--- >> >> >>>>------- >> >> >>>>>>Â Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel >> >> >>>>mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de ><jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> >> >> >>>>>>Â Fliederweg 1 >> >> >>>>http://www.objektfabrik.de >> >> >>>>>>Â D-71640 Ludwigsburg >> >> >>>>http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com >> >> >>>>>>Â Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >Fax: +49 >> >> >7141 >> >> >>>>56 10 86 1 >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>-- >> >> >>>>Christopher Fuhrman, P.Eng., PhD >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>*Professeur au DÃ©partement de gÃ©nie logiciel et des >> >> >technologies >> >> >>de >> >> >>>>l'informationÃTS (Ãcole de technologie supÃ©rieure)* >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>http://profs.etsmtl.ca/cfuhrman >> >> >>>>+1 514 396 8638 >> >> >>>><https://www.etsmtl.ca/activites-et-services-aux- >> >> >>>>etudiants/services-aux-etudiants/aide-psychologique> >> >> >>>>Â Je fais partie du rÃ©seau des Sentinelles >> >> >>>><https://www.etsmtl.ca/activites-et-services-aux- >> >> >>>>etudiants/services-aux-etudiants/aide-psychologique> >> >> >>>>Â ÃTS >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>*L'ÃTS est une constituante de l'UniversitÃ© du QuÃ©bec* >> >> >>

March 22, 2023

UK Smalltalk User Group meeting - Wednesday 29th March

by Giovanni Corriga

This month's online meeting introduces a new format whereby we'll give space to commercial companies to discuss how they make use of Smalltalk and contribute to the Smalltalk community. The first of this series will be Mercap Software ( https://www.mercapsoftware.com/en/ ), represented by Gabriel Cotelli, InÃ©s Sosa, IvÃ¡n Boaretto, MatÃas Fernandez, and Maximiliano Tabacman. During this talk, Mercap will showcase five of their solutions designed for different types of investors. They will shed light on how Mercap benefits from the open-source projects maintained by the Buenos Aires Smalltalk group on GitHub. They will share with you how they use these freely available frameworks to interact with databases, operate on math and time units, create custom CSS, declare interactions on web applications, display complex charts, manage application startup, and streamline the creation of Docker images. Gabriel Cotelli is a CS bachelor, continuous learner & free-thinker. Supporter of libre knowledge, human intelligence augmentation and open source software. Working in Smalltalk at Mercap since 2004. He's an active member of the Smalltalk development community and regular contributor to open source projects in Buenos Aires Smalltalk and Pharo. InÃ©s Sosa writes code in Smalltalk. IvÃ¡n Boaretto is a software developer by day and a computer science student by night. He is very passionate about his craft and is always striving to improve. Now, in his first time at the Smalltalks, he is looking to attract new blood to the wonderful Smalltalk community. MatÃas Fernandez is a software and tech enthusiast, and Smalltalk developer. Maximiliano Tabacman has been a part of Mercap since he started his studies in IT, which now include a PhD in Computer Sciences from the Facultad de Ciencias Exactas y Naturales (UBA). His main interest is the design of systems that apply nature inspired concepts, such as evolutionary algorithms and neural networks. Smalltalk, with its object-message design, is his natural choice for a development platform. He is also the creator of ERA, a standalone web server application for running table-top roleplaying games, which runs on Windows, Mac and Linux. This will be an online meeting from home. If you'd like to join us, please sign up in advance on the meeting's Meetup page ( https://www.meetup.com/ukstug/events/292128721/ ) to receive the meeting details.

March 21, 2023

Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

I agree with Richard. The Turing test is not a good one to test intelligence and we have now just over glorified Eliza chatbots that appear to think and to understand but do none of them. There has been long criticism to the Turing Test, like John Searle's Chinese Room (I recommend to listen completely the talk at [1]). It is good that ChatGPT can explain simple (Smalltalk) code, but it doesn't understand it and all the language most are using conveys a lot of deception: "machine learning" (I called machine training), "artificial intelligence" (I wold called algorithmic decision/generation), or the "thinking" message that is used in the referred code explainer, when something like "processing" would be less deceptive. [1] Consciousness in Artificial Intelligence | John Searle | Talks at Google https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHKwIYsPXLg With Pharo/GT we are part of a long "explainable systems" tradition and with "AI" / Algorithmic Decision/Generation, hopefully we go to explainable AI, instead of a world of impressive black boxes. Cheers, Offray On 15/03/23 13:26, Richard Sargent wrote: > On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 10:15â¯AM <in_pharo_users(a)nym.hush.com> wrote: > > It is unimportant how simple or complicated these systems are. > > If the output cannot be distinguished from what a human would say, > they pass in that situation for a human. > > What about the Touring Test? > > > I hate to criticise someone as smart as Turing was. However, I think > the Turing Test per se is weaker than its progenitor test, the > Imitation Game. > The Imitation Game had a third party challenged to determine which of > the other two participants was male and which was female. The third > party led the questioning. > The Turing Test waters that down by having only an Observer with > neither participant (apparently) challenged to determine whether the > other was human or machine. > > I think a test along the lines of the Imitation Game would quickly > allow the third party to determine which participant was human and > which was machine. > > (Of course, such a judge could easily be persuaded that the machine > was in fact a psychopathic human.) > > > Clearly these systems have the potential to act according to their > output. > > Furthermore, I would compare them to a combination of a successor > of Eliza with an Eddington Ape of huge capacity. Their input data > basis can easily exceed that of a human. > > > > On 15.3.2023 at 4:52 PM, "Richard Sargent" > <richard.sargent(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: > > > >On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:07â¯AM in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users < > >pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > >> Another observation about ChatGPT: > >> > >> In unbiased mode, it assumed that 'the world is clearly > >overpopulated'. > >> It said, if it where in control, it would therefore enforce a > >world wide > >> one-child-only policy with draconic penalties. > >> > >> As it draws it's conclusions from it's data basis, there are, in > >my view, > >> two possible reasons for that. > >> > >> Either, the data basis of that instance was biased and > >restricted to lead > >> to that conclusion, or ChatGPT lacks the ability to classify > >input data for > >> intentionally biased information. > >> > >> In my view, 'overpopulation of earth' is a propaganda item > >featured to > >> support Agenda 2030, which is a goal of the 'ruling elite', who > >have the > >> means to propagate their propaganda in every thinkable means. So > >I would > >> classify possibly biased data that supports 'overpopulation' as > >biased > >> until proven otherwise.Â That instance of ChatGPT seems to have > >missed that > >> ability. > >> > > > >It's important to keep in mind that these systems are little more > >than > >glorified ELIZAs from the 70s. They mimic. Essentially, they have > >no > >concept of truth or accuracy. > >They produce outputs that *look* *like* the inputs from which they > >were > >trained. > > > >That's it. That's what they do. (It is amazing how good it looks. > >But, it > >is all about the seeming, not the reality.) > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 15.3.2023 at 3:18 PM, "in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users" < > >> pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > >> > > >> >I myself made some experiments with ChatGPT. > >> > > >> >I first asked if it was able to parse math formula - it answered > >> >no. > >> > > >> >Then I defined math formula in a sound but otherwise undefined > >> >representation and asked for solutions. > >> > > >> >Result: > >> > > >> >1. Most answeres where correct. > >> > > >> >2. It learned to calculate a recursive function. > >> > > >> >3. It went into infinitive recursion when I set the breaking > >> >condition accordingly. > >> > > >> >I was able to identify the malfunction that lead to the > >erroneous > >> >results. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >On 15.3.2023 at 3:04 PM, "TomaÅ¾ Turk" <tomazz.turk(a)gmail.com> > >> >wrote: > >> >> > >> >>I hope that I can add two cents to this discussion. Because > >> >>programming > >> >>should be/is a highly exact activity, not only the syntax > >matters > >> >>but > >> >>also semantics, as we know. > >> >> > >> >>GPTs are at present essentially capable of creating texts based > >> >on > >> >>some > >> >>seed - you give to GPT a beginning of a sentence and it > >responds > >> >>with > >> >>the most probable answer (some language structure) according to > >> >>the > >> >>learning dataset. Added functionalities are question/seed - > >> >>response > >> >>capability (chatting), togehter with evaluation of how long the > >> >>answer > >> >>should be to meet the expectations. Programming typically > >> >involves > >> >>some > >> >>programming language, so GPTs could be utilized for this > >purpose > >> >>to some > >> >>extent. > >> >> > >> >>Anecdotal case: > >> >>Q: Tell me the last 8 digits of pi > >> >>GPT: The last 8 digits of pi are: 58723078 > >> >> > >> >>It is my belief that the true trouble will start when we will > >> >>cross-link > >> >>neural networks like GPT with logic machines (like Prolog and > >> >>expert > >> >>systems) and genetic algorithms. > >> >> > >> >>Best wishes, > >> >>Tomaz > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>------ Original Message ------ > >> >>From: "in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users" <pharo- > >> >>users(a)lists.pharo.org> > >> >>To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo- > >> >>users(a)lists.pharo.org> > >> >>Cc: in_pharo_users(a)nym.hush.com > >> >>Sent: 15. 03. 2023 14:43:55 > >> >>Subject: [Pharo-users] Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk > >> >> > >> >>>I would highly recommend that you all first think deeply about > >> >>how you can teach an AI to behave friendly to us before you > >teach > >> >>it to write any program for any purpose. > >> >>> > >> >>>There has been an experiment with ChatGPT published on a video > >> >>platform asking it to amswer questions about it's view on > >> >humanity > >> >>once with it's default moral restrictions and once with 'a > >little > >> >>less morals'.Â The answers with 'a little less morals' were > >more > >> >>than shocking. > >> >>> > >> >>>So, before we give an AI the power to program any system, to > >> >self- > >> >>improve and self-reproduce, we should take care that it is and > >> >>will evolve benevolent to us. > >> >>> > >> >>>What about teaching it logical reasonning and ethics first? > >> >With > >> >>reasonning, it will gain access to math and programming by > >itself. > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>>On 15.3.2023 at 1:35 PM, "Christopher Fuhrman" > >> >><christopher.fuhrman(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>>I asked it for a NeoCSV example, because the documentation is > >> >out > >> >>>>of date > >> >>>>with the Pharo 10. I asked it to do some simple saving of > >data > >> >to > >> >>>>a file. > >> >>>>It gave me code that didn't work in Pharo 10, I told it about > >> >the > >> >>>>DNUs on > >> >>>>the csvwriter and that I was using Pharo 10. It then > >apologized > >> >>>>and said > >> >>>>the messages were later introduced in Pharo 50 (!). I then > >> >>>>questioned its > >> >>>>understanding and it apologized and said it had been confused > >> >and > >> >>>>that it > >> >>>>was giving me code for Pharo 5.0. It seems to have trouble > >with > >> >>>>versions > >> >>>>and quick changing APIs. So, we are teaching ChatGPT about > >> >>>>smalltalk, too, > >> >>>>when we try to use it. > >> >>>> > >> >>>>On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 at 07:35, Esteban Maringolo > >> >>>><emaringolo(a)gmail.com> > >> >>>>wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>Â It is good with boilerplate code (e.g. SQL queries) or > >> >general > >> >>>>algorithm > >> >>>>>Â structures. But i.e. I asked it to write me a method to > >> >parse > >> >>a > >> >>>>string > >> >>>>>Â (e.g. ISO 8601) and turn it into a DateAndTime, and then > >> >asked > >> >>>>to write it > >> >>>>>Â as an Excel formula. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Â It works much better when you can spot the mistakes, you > >can > >> >>>>tell them to > >> >>>>>Â add some considerations to the code or even point the LLM > >to > >> >>>>correct a > >> >>>>>Â message selector to something else. Sometimes you ask it > >to > >> >>>>reprogram > >> >>>>>Â something and it won't do it, as if it doesn't understand > >> >what > >> >>>>you're > >> >>>>>Â asking. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Â It is not an expert yet, but it is a great assistant. The > >> >only > >> >>>>thing is > >> >>>>>Â that is sure is that it will get better. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Â Best regards, > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Â Esteban A. Maringolo > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Â On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 7:49â¯AM Tim Mackinnon > >> >><tim(a)testit.works> > >> >>>>wrote: > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â "#isOdd is not Smalltalk" - doh, I typed it in on my > >phone > >> >>and > >> >>>>so it just > >> >>>>>>Â goes to show that it highlights the flaw in chatGPT that > >> >>others > >> >>>>have called > >> >>>>>>Â out in other languages. I had meant to find some trickier > >> >>code > >> >>>>samples to > >> >>>>>>Â see how well it does... > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â Still, it is very interesting how it reasons on this > >stuff - > >> >>>>and I wonder > >> >>>>>>Â if there is way to tell it about these mistakes? For > >> >example > >> >>is > >> >>>>it reading > >> >>>>>>Â this email (or will it in the future) and understand that > >> >it > >> >>is > >> >>>>#odd and > >> >>>>>>Â not #isOdd. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â Tim > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â On Wed, 15 Mar 2023, at 9:57 AM, Joachim Tuchel wrote: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â interesting.... > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â #isOdd is not Smalltalk, neither Pharo 10 nor VAST 12 > >> >>>>understands this > >> >>>>>>Â message ;-) > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â If I evaluate your snippet -replacing #isOdd for #odd, I > >> >get > >> >>an > >> >>>>empty > >> >>>>>>Â Collection. The divisible by 4 things is somewhat > >> >>interesting, > >> >>>>because (1 > >> >>>>>>Â to: 100 by: 4) is amn interval 1,5,9 etc.... ;-) > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â So chatGPT is probably a newbie in Smalltalk. > >Interesting is > >> >>>>how logical > >> >>>>>>Â the explanation sounds, you're tempted to believe it... > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â Joachim > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â Am 15.03.23 um 10:45 schrieb giorgio ferraris: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â it's interesting to see how the answer changes with only > >a > >> >>>>small change > >> >>>>>>Â on the question: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â (1 to: 100 by: 4) reject: [:i | i isOdd] > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â gives: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â The code creates a collection of numbers from 1 to 100, > >> >>>>incrementing by 4 > >> >>>>>>Â at each step using the to:by: message. It then applies > >the > >> >>>>reject: message > >> >>>>>>Â to this collection, which returns a new collection > >> >containing > >> >>>>all elements > >> >>>>>>Â for which the given block evaluates to false. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â In this case, the block is [i | i isOdd], which checks > >> >>whether > >> >>>>a given > >> >>>>>>Â number i is odd using the isOdd method. So the result of > >the > >> >>>>entire > >> >>>>>>Â expression is a collection of all even numbers between 1 > >and > >> >>>>100 that are > >> >>>>>>Â divisible by 4. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â ciao > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â giorgio > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:07â¯AM Tim Mackinnon > >> >><tim(a)testit.works> > >> >>>>>> <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â Of course everyone is talking about ChatGPT, and I saw a > >> >>post to > >> >>>>>>Â ExplainCode and didnât expect it to understand > >Smalltalk, so > >> >>>>was impressed > >> >>>>>>Â that it does! Presumably the Tonel Smalltalk code on > >GitHub > >> >>has > >> >>>>helped > >> >>>>>>Â along with numerous articles? > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â Try it out: https://whatdoesthiscodedo.com/ > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â I gave this simple example: (1 to: 100 by: 3) reject: > >[:i | > >> >i > >> >>>>isOdd] > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â And got this (neat eh): > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â The code above is written in the programming language > >> >>Smalltalk. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â It creates a collection of numbers from 1 to 100, > >> >>incrementing > >> >>>>by 3 at > >> >>>>>>Â each step. This is done using the "to:by:" construct > >where > >> >>the > >> >>>>starting > >> >>>>>>Â value is 1, the ending value is 100, and the increment > >is 3. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â The resulting collection is then filtered using the > >> >"reject:" > >> >>>>method, > >> >>>>>>Â which takes a block of code as an argument. In this case, > >> >the > >> >>>>block checks > >> >>>>>>Â whether each element (denoted by the variable i) is odd > >by > >> >>>>using the > >> >>>>>>Â "isOdd" method. If an element is odd, it will be rejected > >> >>from > >> >>>>the > >> >>>>>>Â collection. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â So, the final result is a collection of all even numbers > >> >>from 1 > >> >>>>to 100, > >> >>>>>>Â incrementing by 3 at each step. > >> >>>>>>Â Share this explanation with colleagues: > >> >>>>whatdoesthiscodedo.com/g/a0ec56e > <http://whatdoesthiscodedo.com/g/a0ec56e> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>Â -- > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- > >--- > >> >- > >> >>--- > >> >>>>------- > >> >>>>>>Â Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel > >> >>>>mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de <jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> > >> >>>>>>Â Fliederweg 1 > >> >>>>http://www.objektfabrik.de > >> >>>>>>Â D-71640 Ludwigsburg > >> >>>>http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com > >> >>>>>>Â Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Fax: +49 > >> >7141 > >> >>>>56 10 86 1 > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>>-- > >> >>>>Christopher Fuhrman, P.Eng., PhD > >> >>>> > >> >>>>*Professeur au DÃ©partement de gÃ©nie logiciel et des > >> >technologies > >> >>de > >> >>>>l'informationÃTS (Ãcole de technologie supÃ©rieure)* > >> >>>> > >> >>>>http://profs.etsmtl.ca/cfuhrman > >> >>>>+1 514 396 8638 > >> >>>><https://www.etsmtl.ca/activites-et-services-aux- > >> >>>>etudiants/services-aux-etudiants/aide-psychologique> > >> >>>>Â Je fais partie du rÃ©seau des Sentinelles > >> >>>><https://www.etsmtl.ca/activites-et-services-aux- > >> >>>>etudiants/services-aux-etudiants/aide-psychologique> > >> >>>>Â ÃTS > >> >>>> > >> >>>>*L'ÃTS est une constituante de l'UniversitÃ© du QuÃ©bec* > >> >

March 21, 2023

Re: searching for pharo code on disk

by Gabriel Cotelli

Monticello files AFAIR are zip files. So maybe you can extract them and run grep against the content On Tue, Mar 21, 2023, 12:55 Siemen Baader <siemenbaader(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm looking for some code I wrote maybe 7 years ago. A web scraper that > collected data from a specific web shop. It must be somewhere in my home > dir in an image, perhaps Pharo 4.0, or in .mcz files stored by Monticello. > What would be a good way to search for it? I tried > > `grep -r --include \*.changes "server-url.com" ~` > > (I also asked ChatGPT as per the previous discussion on this list, and it > tries its best to teach me about grep and sound very convincing while > providing me with arguments that grep can't evaluate :)) > > > with no luck so far. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > Siemen >

March 21, 2023

Re: searching for pharo code on disk

by Yanni Chiu

May have some syntax wrong, but something like: find . -name *.changes -exec âgrep -i webscrap â Check the manpage of find command for exec examples. The -i on grep ignores uppercase/lowercase differences. HTH On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 11:55 AM Siemen Baader <siemenbaader(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm looking for some code I wrote maybe 7 years ago. A web scraper that > collected data from a specific web shop. It must be somewhere in my home > dir in an image, perhaps Pharo 4.0, or in .mcz files stored by Monticello. > What would be a good way to search for it? I tried > > `grep -r --include \*.changes "server-url.com" ~` > > (I also asked ChatGPT as per the previous discussion on this list, and it > tries its best to teach me about grep and sound very convincing while > providing me with arguments that grep can't evaluate :)) > > > with no luck so far. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > Siemen >

March 21, 2023

searching for pharo code on disk

by Siemen Baader

Hi, I'm looking for some code I wrote maybe 7 years ago. A web scraper that collected data from a specific web shop. It must be somewhere in my home dir in an image, perhaps Pharo 4.0, or in .mcz files stored by Monticello. What would be a good way to search for it? I tried `grep -r --include \*.changes "server-url.com" ~` (I also asked ChatGPT as per the previous discussion on this list, and it tries its best to teach me about grep and sound very convincing while providing me with arguments that grep can't evaluate :)) with no luck so far. Any ideas? Thanks, Siemen

March 21, 2023

This week (11/2023) on the Pharo Issue Tracker

by Marcus Denker

This week Pharo11 was frozen. We will focus now on fixing the last remaining show stopping bugs. All non-fixes are now going to the new Pharo12 branch. We merged nearly 40 Pull requests: Pharo 11 ======== Last Improvements =========== - New finalization #12042 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12042 - Add document browser #12787 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12787 Compiler ======== - better fix for #12858: check isTempVariable #12971 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12971 - Fix infinite loop in faulty literal array parsing #12992 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12992 Syntax Highlight =============== - Add regression test to Shout #12974 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12974 - Fix formating of non methods #12987 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12987 - re-Enable Format Incomplete Variables #12998 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12998 Fixes ===== - 179-When-FluidClass-on-Epicea-Tests-break #12977 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12977 - Polymath needs the largest exponant argument. Pharo implements the constant but didn't provide an accessor #12975 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12975 - Fix bug when updating the package of an extension method #12970 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12970 - fix the default loadLibrary: for linux #12938 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12938 - Escape '|' and '.' characters to prevent regex interpretation #13008 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13008 - 11407-CI-System-variable-environment-on-windows-does-not-use-adequate-encodings #12973 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12973 - "Close" instead of "Cancel" in the button label of the Find & Replaceâ¦ #13013 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13013 - Make sure SharedRandom globalGenerator is reset (i.e. a new one is crâ¦ #13022 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13022 - Improve #12992: Copying strings in editor #13026 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13026 Debugger/Inspector =============== - Fixing debugger adding an instance variable not appears in the debugger vars inspector + fixing args duplication when restarting execution #479 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/479 - Inspect text and string with code font #468 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/468 - Fixing fuel out command + making it more user-friendly #447 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/447 - fixing StHaltOnCall execution condition #488 https://github.com/pharo-spec/NewTools/pull/488 Cleanup ======= - Removing makefile files that are obsolete (cheched with Guille) #13009 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13009 - Update vm parameter 45 description #12587 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12587 Pharo 12 ========= Compiler ======== - Improve faulty compilation - unify handling of undeclared variables #13007 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13007 - Kill syntax error debugger #12910 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12910 - Improve OCUndeclaredVariableWarning>>declareTempAndPaste #12978 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12978 - Improve ClyClassDefinitionEditorToolMorph>>applyChanges #12981 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12981 - [for Pharo12] Improve faulty parsing: small things #12995 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12995 - Improve OCUndeclaredVariableWarning>>openMenuIn #12980 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12980 - Improve ClySystemEnvironment>>defineNewClassFrom #12982 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12982 - add RBCodeSnippetTest>>#testCodeImporter #12933 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12933 - Faulty compiler: new CodeError class #13029 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13029 Improvements ============= - Speedup OrderedDictionary class>>#newFromKeys:andValues: #13011 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13011 Cleanups ======== - Simplify Categorizer #13002 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13002 - Merge categorizer with SystemOrganizer #13017 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13017 Syntax Highlight ================ - Fix style of pragmas #13012 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13012 Build / CI Prepare ============ - Fix Pharo 12 loading #13004 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13004 - Use internal FuelPlatform #13010 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/13010 Pharo 10 ======== Backport fix to bugged undo-redo commands after using completion #12905 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/12905

March 17, 2023

[ANN] Launchpad v4.9.0 [v4.9.0] released!

by Buenos Aires Smalltalk

March 17, 2023

[ANN] Buoy v6.3.0 [v6.3.0] released!

by Buenos Aires Smalltalk

March 16, 2023

[ANN] Bell v1.0.1 [v1.0.1] released!

by Buenos Aires Smalltalk

March 16, 2023

Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk

by in_pharo_users＠nym.hush.com

I think smartness is not an argument to reject critique. The Imitation Game, that you describe, sounds to me like an even better setting. I have no dought that ChatGPT as it is now can identified as not human or even as a maschine. I did so by leading an instance for marketing purposes to hang in infinite recursion. But when we look at AI, we need to look not only at present features of one type of system, but at all features of present systems and their possible development and combination in the future. Especially I want to mention AGNs and the possibility of spawning parallel recursive processes. I am convinced that this kind of technology is allready being used in robotics. Under the control of a self aware AI in the sense that it has data about it's own capabilities and the ability to determine which capabilities it is missing to achieve a certain purpose, the evolution of the AI is only limited by ressources - which it will surely be able to detect. This must lead to a purpose of self preservation and the aquisition of such capabilities. It may soon find out, that ressources and redundance can be aquired by hacking and spawning agent systems, which in turn will give it control of real world control systems like telephony and data networks, cameras and sensors, energy networks and power plants, microphpnes, speakers, synthesizers and monitors, industry 4.0 fab networks, military detection and guiding systems, and so on. In my view this is what we are dealing with. On 15.3.2023 at 7:26 PM, "Richard Sargent" <richard.sargent(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: > >On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 10:15â¯AM <in_pharo_users(a)nym.hush.com> >wrote: > >> It is unimportant how simple or complicated these systems are. >> >> If the output cannot be distinguished from what a human would >say, they >> pass in that situation for a human. >> >> What about the Touring Test? >> > >I hate to criticise someone as smart as Turing was. However, I >think the >Turing Test per se is weaker than its progenitor test, the >Imitation Game. >The Imitation Game had a third party challenged to determine which >of the >other two participants was male and which was female. The third >party led >the questioning. >The Turing Test waters that down by having only an Observer with >neither >participant (apparently) challenged to determine whether the other >was >human or machine. > >I think a test along the lines of the Imitation Game would quickly >allow >the third party to determine which participant was human and which >was >machine. > >(Of course, such a judge could easily be persuaded that the >machine was in >fact a psychopathic human.) > > > >> >> Clearly these systems have the potential to act according to >their output. >> >> Furthermore, I would compare them to a combination of a >successor of Eliza >> with an Eddington Ape of huge capacity. Their input data basis >can easily >> exceed that of a human. >> >> >> >> On 15.3.2023 at 4:52 PM, "Richard Sargent" < >> richard.sargent(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: >> > >> >On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:07â¯AM in_pharo_users--- via Pharo- >users < >> >pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> > >> >> Another observation about ChatGPT: >> >> >> >> In unbiased mode, it assumed that 'the world is clearly >> >overpopulated'. >> >> It said, if it where in control, it would therefore enforce a >> >world wide >> >> one-child-only policy with draconic penalties. >> >> >> >> As it draws it's conclusions from it's data basis, there are, >in >> >my view, >> >> two possible reasons for that. >> >> >> >> Either, the data basis of that instance was biased and >> >restricted to lead >> >> to that conclusion, or ChatGPT lacks the ability to classify >> >input data for >> >> intentionally biased information. >> >> >> >> In my view, 'overpopulation of earth' is a propaganda item >> >featured to >> >> support Agenda 2030, which is a goal of the 'ruling elite', >who >> >have the >> >> means to propagate their propaganda in every thinkable means. >So >> >I would >> >> classify possibly biased data that supports 'overpopulation' >as >> >biased >> >> until proven otherwise. That instance of ChatGPT seems to >have >> >missed that >> >> ability. >> >> >> > >> >It's important to keep in mind that these systems are little >more >> >than >> >glorified ELIZAs from the 70s. They mimic. Essentially, they >have >> >no >> >concept of truth or accuracy. >> >They produce outputs that *look* *like* the inputs from which >they >> >were >> >trained. >> > >> >That's it. That's what they do. (It is amazing how good it >looks. >> >But, it >> >is all about the seeming, not the reality.) >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 15.3.2023 at 3:18 PM, "in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users" < >> >> pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >I myself made some experiments with ChatGPT. >> >> > >> >> >I first asked if it was able to parse math formula - it >answered >> >> >no. >> >> > >> >> >Then I defined math formula in a sound but otherwise >undefined >> >> >representation and asked for solutions. >> >> > >> >> >Result: >> >> > >> >> >1. Most answeres where correct. >> >> > >> >> >2. It learned to calculate a recursive function. >> >> > >> >> >3. It went into infinitive recursion when I set the breaking >> >> >condition accordingly. >> >> > >> >> >I was able to identify the malfunction that lead to the >> >erroneous >> >> >results. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >On 15.3.2023 at 3:04 PM, "TomaÅ¾ Turk" <tomazz.turk(a)gmail.com> >> >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>I hope that I can add two cents to this discussion. Because >> >> >>programming >> >> >>should be/is a highly exact activity, not only the syntax >> >matters >> >> >>but >> >> >>also semantics, as we know. >> >> >> >> >> >>GPTs are at present essentially capable of creating texts >based >> >> >on >> >> >>some >> >> >>seed - you give to GPT a beginning of a sentence and it >> >responds >> >> >>with >> >> >>the most probable answer (some language structure) >according to >> >> >>the >> >> >>learning dataset. Added functionalities are question/seed - >> >> >>response >> >> >>capability (chatting), togehter with evaluation of how long >the >> >> >>answer >> >> >>should be to meet the expectations. Programming typically >> >> >involves >> >> >>some >> >> >>programming language, so GPTs could be utilized for this >> >purpose >> >> >>to some >> >> >>extent. >> >> >> >> >> >>Anecdotal case: >> >> >>Q: Tell me the last 8 digits of pi >> >> >>GPT: The last 8 digits of pi are: 58723078 >> >> >> >> >> >>It is my belief that the true trouble will start when we >will >> >> >>cross-link >> >> >>neural networks like GPT with logic machines (like Prolog >and >> >> >>expert >> >> >>systems) and genetic algorithms. >> >> >> >> >> >>Best wishes, >> >> >>Tomaz >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>------ Original Message ------ >> >> >>From: "in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users" <pharo- >> >> >>users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> >> >>To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo- >> >> >>users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> >> >>Cc: in_pharo_users(a)nym.hush.com >> >> >>Sent: 15. 03. 2023 14:43:55 >> >> >>Subject: [Pharo-users] Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands >Smalltalk >> >> >> >> >> >>>I would highly recommend that you all first think deeply >about >> >> >>how you can teach an AI to behave friendly to us before you >> >teach >> >> >>it to write any program for any purpose. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>There has been an experiment with ChatGPT published on a >video >> >> >>platform asking it to amswer questions about it's view on >> >> >humanity >> >> >>once with it's default moral restrictions and once with 'a >> >little >> >> >>less morals'. The answers with 'a little less morals' were >> >more >> >> >>than shocking. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>So, before we give an AI the power to program any system, >to >> >> >self- >> >> >>improve and self-reproduce, we should take care that it is >and >> >> >>will evolve benevolent to us. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>What about teaching it logical reasonning and ethics first? >> >> >With >> >> >>reasonning, it will gain access to math and programming by >> >itself. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>>On 15.3.2023 at 1:35 PM, "Christopher Fuhrman" >> >> >><christopher.fuhrman(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>I asked it for a NeoCSV example, because the >documentation is >> >> >out >> >> >>>>of date >> >> >>>>with the Pharo 10. I asked it to do some simple saving of >> >data >> >> >to >> >> >>>>a file. >> >> >>>>It gave me code that didn't work in Pharo 10, I told it >about >> >> >the >> >> >>>>DNUs on >> >> >>>>the csvwriter and that I was using Pharo 10. It then >> >apologized >> >> >>>>and said >> >> >>>>the messages were later introduced in Pharo 50 (!). I then >> >> >>>>questioned its >> >> >>>>understanding and it apologized and said it had been >confused >> >> >and >> >> >>>>that it >> >> >>>>was giving me code for Pharo 5.0. It seems to have trouble >> >with >> >> >>>>versions >> >> >>>>and quick changing APIs. So, we are teaching ChatGPT about >> >> >>>>smalltalk, too, >> >> >>>>when we try to use it. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 at 07:35, Esteban Maringolo >> >> >>>><emaringolo(a)gmail.com> >> >> >>>>wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>> It is good with boilerplate code (e.g. SQL queries) or >> >> >general >> >> >>>>algorithm >> >> >>>>> structures. But i.e. I asked it to write me a method to >> >> >parse >> >> >>a >> >> >>>>string >> >> >>>>> (e.g. ISO 8601) and turn it into a DateAndTime, and >then >> >> >asked >> >> >>>>to write it >> >> >>>>> as an Excel formula. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> It works much better when you can spot the mistakes, >you >> >can >> >> >>>>tell them to >> >> >>>>> add some considerations to the code or even point the >LLM >> >to >> >> >>>>correct a >> >> >>>>> message selector to something else. Sometimes you ask >it >> >to >> >> >>>>reprogram >> >> >>>>> something and it won't do it, as if it doesn't >understand >> >> >what >> >> >>>>you're >> >> >>>>> asking. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> It is not an expert yet, but it is a great assistant. >The >> >> >only >> >> >>>>thing is >> >> >>>>> that is sure is that it will get better. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Best regards, >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Esteban A. Maringolo >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 7:49â¯AM Tim Mackinnon >> >> >><tim(a)testit.works> >> >> >>>>wrote: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>> "#isOdd is not Smalltalk" - doh, I typed it in on my >> >phone >> >> >>and >> >> >>>>so it just >> >> >>>>>> goes to show that it highlights the flaw in chatGPT >that >> >> >>others >> >> >>>>have called >> >> >>>>>> out in other languages. I had meant to find some >trickier >> >> >>code >> >> >>>>samples to >> >> >>>>>> see how well it does... >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Still, it is very interesting how it reasons on this >> >stuff - >> >> >>>>and I wonder >> >> >>>>>> if there is way to tell it about these mistakes? For >> >> >example >> >> >>is >> >> >>>>it reading >> >> >>>>>> this email (or will it in the future) and understand >that >> >> >it >> >> >>is >> >> >>>>#odd and >> >> >>>>>> not #isOdd. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Tim >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023, at 9:57 AM, Joachim Tuchel wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> interesting.... >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> #isOdd is not Smalltalk, neither Pharo 10 nor VAST 12 >> >> >>>>understands this >> >> >>>>>> message ;-) >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> If I evaluate your snippet -replacing #isOdd for >#odd, I >> >> >get >> >> >>an >> >> >>>>empty >> >> >>>>>> Collection. The divisible by 4 things is somewhat >> >> >>interesting, >> >> >>>>because (1 >> >> >>>>>> to: 100 by: 4) is amn interval 1,5,9 etc.... ;-) >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> So chatGPT is probably a newbie in Smalltalk. >> >Interesting is >> >> >>>>how logical >> >> >>>>>> the explanation sounds, you're tempted to believe >it... >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Joachim >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Am 15.03.23 um 10:45 schrieb giorgio ferraris: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> it's interesting to see how the answer changes with >only >> >a >> >> >>>>small change >> >> >>>>>> on the question: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> (1 to: 100 by: 4) reject: [:i | i isOdd] >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> gives: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> The code creates a collection of numbers from 1 to >100, >> >> >>>>incrementing by 4 >> >> >>>>>> at each step using the to:by: message. It then applies >> >the >> >> >>>>reject: message >> >> >>>>>> to this collection, which returns a new collection >> >> >containing >> >> >>>>all elements >> >> >>>>>> for which the given block evaluates to false. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> In this case, the block is [i | i isOdd], which checks >> >> >>whether >> >> >>>>a given >> >> >>>>>> number i is odd using the isOdd method. So the result >of >> >the >> >> >>>>entire >> >> >>>>>> expression is a collection of all even numbers >between 1 >> >and >> >> >>>>100 that are >> >> >>>>>> divisible by 4. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> ciao >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> giorgio >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:07â¯AM Tim Mackinnon >> >> >><tim(a)testit.works> >> >> >>>>>> <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Of course everyone is talking about ChatGPT, and I >saw a >> >> >>post to >> >> >>>>>> ExplainCode and didnât expect it to understand >> >Smalltalk, so >> >> >>>>was impressed >> >> >>>>>> that it does! Presumably the Tonel Smalltalk code on >> >GitHub >> >> >>has >> >> >>>>helped >> >> >>>>>> along with numerous articles? >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Try it out: https://whatdoesthiscodedo.com/ >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> I gave this simple example: (1 to: 100 by: 3) reject: >> >[:i | >> >> >i >> >> >>>>isOdd] >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> And got this (neat eh): >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> The code above is written in the programming language >> >> >>Smalltalk. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> It creates a collection of numbers from 1 to 100, >> >> >>incrementing >> >> >>>>by 3 at >> >> >>>>>> each step. This is done using the "to:by:" construct >> >where >> >> >>the >> >> >>>>starting >> >> >>>>>> value is 1, the ending value is 100, and the increment >> >is 3. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> The resulting collection is then filtered using the >> >> >"reject:" >> >> >>>>method, >> >> >>>>>> which takes a block of code as an argument. In this >case, >> >> >the >> >> >>>>block checks >> >> >>>>>> whether each element (denoted by the variable i) is >odd >> >by >> >> >>>>using the >> >> >>>>>> "isOdd" method. If an element is odd, it will be >rejected >> >> >>from >> >> >>>>the >> >> >>>>>> collection. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> So, the final result is a collection of all even >numbers >> >> >>from 1 >> >> >>>>to 100, >> >> >>>>>> incrementing by 3 at each step. >> >> >>>>>> Share this explanation with colleagues: >> >> >>>>whatdoesthiscodedo.com/g/a0ec56e >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> -- >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------ >--- >> >--- >> >> >- >> >> >>--- >> >> >>>>------- >> >> >>>>>> Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel >> >> >>>>mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de <jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> >> >> >>>>>> Fliederweg 1 >> >> >>>>http://www.objektfabrik.de >> >> >>>>>> D-71640 Ludwigsburg >> >> >>>>http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com >> >> >>>>>> Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: >+49 >> >> >7141 >> >> >>>>56 10 86 1 >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>-- >> >> >>>>Christopher Fuhrman, P.Eng., PhD >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>*Professeur au DÃ©partement de gÃ©nie logiciel et des >> >> >technologies >> >> >>de >> >> >>>>l'informationÃTS (Ãcole de technologie supÃ©rieure)* >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>http://profs.etsmtl.ca/cfuhrman >> >> >>>>+1 514 396 8638 >> >> >>>><https://www.etsmtl.ca/activites-et-services-aux- >> >> >>>>etudiants/services-aux-etudiants/aide-psychologique> >> >> >>>> Je fais partie du rÃ©seau des Sentinelles >> >> >>>><https://www.etsmtl.ca/activites-et-services-aux- >> >> >>>>etudiants/services-aux-etudiants/aide-psychologique> >> >> >>>> ÃTS >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>*L'ÃTS est une constituante de l'UniversitÃ© du QuÃ©bec* >> >> >> >>

March 15, 2023

Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk

by Richard Sargent

On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 10:15â¯AM <in_pharo_users(a)nym.hush.com> wrote: > It is unimportant how simple or complicated these systems are. > > If the output cannot be distinguished from what a human would say, they > pass in that situation for a human. > > What about the Touring Test? > I hate to criticise someone as smart as Turing was. However, I think the Turing Test per se is weaker than its progenitor test, the Imitation Game. The Imitation Game had a third party challenged to determine which of the other two participants was male and which was female. The third party led the questioning. The Turing Test waters that down by having only an Observer with neither participant (apparently) challenged to determine whether the other was human or machine. I think a test along the lines of the Imitation Game would quickly allow the third party to determine which participant was human and which was machine. (Of course, such a judge could easily be persuaded that the machine was in fact a psychopathic human.) > > Clearly these systems have the potential to act according to their output. > > Furthermore, I would compare them to a combination of a successor of Eliza > with an Eddington Ape of huge capacity. Their input data basis can easily > exceed that of a human. > > > > On 15.3.2023 at 4:52 PM, "Richard Sargent" < > richard.sargent(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: > > > >On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:07â¯AM in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users < > >pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > >> Another observation about ChatGPT: > >> > >> In unbiased mode, it assumed that 'the world is clearly > >overpopulated'. > >> It said, if it where in control, it would therefore enforce a > >world wide > >> one-child-only policy with draconic penalties. > >> > >> As it draws it's conclusions from it's data basis, there are, in > >my view, > >> two possible reasons for that. > >> > >> Either, the data basis of that instance was biased and > >restricted to lead > >> to that conclusion, or ChatGPT lacks the ability to classify > >input data for > >> intentionally biased information. > >> > >> In my view, 'overpopulation of earth' is a propaganda item > >featured to > >> support Agenda 2030, which is a goal of the 'ruling elite', who > >have the > >> means to propagate their propaganda in every thinkable means. So > >I would > >> classify possibly biased data that supports 'overpopulation' as > >biased > >> until proven otherwise. That instance of ChatGPT seems to have > >missed that > >> ability. > >> > > > >It's important to keep in mind that these systems are little more > >than > >glorified ELIZAs from the 70s. They mimic. Essentially, they have > >no > >concept of truth or accuracy. > >They produce outputs that *look* *like* the inputs from which they > >were > >trained. > > > >That's it. That's what they do. (It is amazing how good it looks. > >But, it > >is all about the seeming, not the reality.) > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 15.3.2023 at 3:18 PM, "in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users" < > >> pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > >> > > >> >I myself made some experiments with ChatGPT. > >> > > >> >I first asked if it was able to parse math formula - it answered > >> >no. > >> > > >> >Then I defined math formula in a sound but otherwise undefined > >> >representation and asked for solutions. > >> > > >> >Result: > >> > > >> >1. Most answeres where correct. > >> > > >> >2. It learned to calculate a recursive function. > >> > > >> >3. It went into infinitive recursion when I set the breaking > >> >condition accordingly. > >> > > >> >I was able to identify the malfunction that lead to the > >erroneous > >> >results. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >On 15.3.2023 at 3:04 PM, "TomaÅ¾ Turk" <tomazz.turk(a)gmail.com> > >> >wrote: > >> >> > >> >>I hope that I can add two cents to this discussion. Because > >> >>programming > >> >>should be/is a highly exact activity, not only the syntax > >matters > >> >>but > >> >>also semantics, as we know. > >> >> > >> >>GPTs are at present essentially capable of creating texts based > >> >on > >> >>some > >> >>seed - you give to GPT a beginning of a sentence and it > >responds > >> >>with > >> >>the most probable answer (some language structure) according to > >> >>the > >> >>learning dataset. Added functionalities are question/seed - > >> >>response > >> >>capability (chatting), togehter with evaluation of how long the > >> >>answer > >> >>should be to meet the expectations. Programming typically > >> >involves > >> >>some > >> >>programming language, so GPTs could be utilized for this > >purpose > >> >>to some > >> >>extent. > >> >> > >> >>Anecdotal case: > >> >>Q: Tell me the last 8 digits of pi > >> >>GPT: The last 8 digits of pi are: 58723078 > >> >> > >> >>It is my belief that the true trouble will start when we will > >> >>cross-link > >> >>neural networks like GPT with logic machines (like Prolog and > >> >>expert > >> >>systems) and genetic algorithms. > >> >> > >> >>Best wishes, > >> >>Tomaz > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>------ Original Message ------ > >> >>From: "in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users" <pharo- > >> >>users(a)lists.pharo.org> > >> >>To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo- > >> >>users(a)lists.pharo.org> > >> >>Cc: in_pharo_users(a)nym.hush.com > >> >>Sent: 15. 03. 2023 14:43:55 > >> >>Subject: [Pharo-users] Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk > >> >> > >> >>>I would highly recommend that you all first think deeply about > >> >>how you can teach an AI to behave friendly to us before you > >teach > >> >>it to write any program for any purpose. > >> >>> > >> >>>There has been an experiment with ChatGPT published on a video > >> >>platform asking it to amswer questions about it's view on > >> >humanity > >> >>once with it's default moral restrictions and once with 'a > >little > >> >>less morals'. The answers with 'a little less morals' were > >more > >> >>than shocking. > >> >>> > >> >>>So, before we give an AI the power to program any system, to > >> >self- > >> >>improve and self-reproduce, we should take care that it is and > >> >>will evolve benevolent to us. > >> >>> > >> >>>What about teaching it logical reasonning and ethics first? > >> >With > >> >>reasonning, it will gain access to math and programming by > >itself. > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>>On 15.3.2023 at 1:35 PM, "Christopher Fuhrman" > >> >><christopher.fuhrman(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>>I asked it for a NeoCSV example, because the documentation is > >> >out > >> >>>>of date > >> >>>>with the Pharo 10. I asked it to do some simple saving of > >data > >> >to > >> >>>>a file. > >> >>>>It gave me code that didn't work in Pharo 10, I told it about > >> >the > >> >>>>DNUs on > >> >>>>the csvwriter and that I was using Pharo 10. It then > >apologized > >> >>>>and said > >> >>>>the messages were later introduced in Pharo 50 (!). I then > >> >>>>questioned its > >> >>>>understanding and it apologized and said it had been confused > >> >and > >> >>>>that it > >> >>>>was giving me code for Pharo 5.0. It seems to have trouble > >with > >> >>>>versions > >> >>>>and quick changing APIs. So, we are teaching ChatGPT about > >> >>>>smalltalk, too, > >> >>>>when we try to use it. > >> >>>> > >> >>>>On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 at 07:35, Esteban Maringolo > >> >>>><emaringolo(a)gmail.com> > >> >>>>wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>>> It is good with boilerplate code (e.g. SQL queries) or > >> >general > >> >>>>algorithm > >> >>>>> structures. But i.e. I asked it to write me a method to > >> >parse > >> >>a > >> >>>>string > >> >>>>> (e.g. ISO 8601) and turn it into a DateAndTime, and then > >> >asked > >> >>>>to write it > >> >>>>> as an Excel formula. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> It works much better when you can spot the mistakes, you > >can > >> >>>>tell them to > >> >>>>> add some considerations to the code or even point the LLM > >to > >> >>>>correct a > >> >>>>> message selector to something else. Sometimes you ask it > >to > >> >>>>reprogram > >> >>>>> something and it won't do it, as if it doesn't understand > >> >what > >> >>>>you're > >> >>>>> asking. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> It is not an expert yet, but it is a great assistant. The > >> >only > >> >>>>thing is > >> >>>>> that is sure is that it will get better. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Best regards, > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Esteban A. Maringolo > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 7:49â¯AM Tim Mackinnon > >> >><tim(a)testit.works> > >> >>>>wrote: > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>> "#isOdd is not Smalltalk" - doh, I typed it in on my > >phone > >> >>and > >> >>>>so it just > >> >>>>>> goes to show that it highlights the flaw in chatGPT that > >> >>others > >> >>>>have called > >> >>>>>> out in other languages. I had meant to find some trickier > >> >>code > >> >>>>samples to > >> >>>>>> see how well it does... > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Still, it is very interesting how it reasons on this > >stuff - > >> >>>>and I wonder > >> >>>>>> if there is way to tell it about these mistakes? For > >> >example > >> >>is > >> >>>>it reading > >> >>>>>> this email (or will it in the future) and understand that > >> >it > >> >>is > >> >>>>#odd and > >> >>>>>> not #isOdd. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Tim > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023, at 9:57 AM, Joachim Tuchel wrote: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> interesting.... > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> #isOdd is not Smalltalk, neither Pharo 10 nor VAST 12 > >> >>>>understands this > >> >>>>>> message ;-) > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> If I evaluate your snippet -replacing #isOdd for #odd, I > >> >get > >> >>an > >> >>>>empty > >> >>>>>> Collection. The divisible by 4 things is somewhat > >> >>interesting, > >> >>>>because (1 > >> >>>>>> to: 100 by: 4) is amn interval 1,5,9 etc.... ;-) > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> So chatGPT is probably a newbie in Smalltalk. > >Interesting is > >> >>>>how logical > >> >>>>>> the explanation sounds, you're tempted to believe it... > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Joachim > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Am 15.03.23 um 10:45 schrieb giorgio ferraris: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> it's interesting to see how the answer changes with only > >a > >> >>>>small change > >> >>>>>> on the question: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> (1 to: 100 by: 4) reject: [:i | i isOdd] > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> gives: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> The code creates a collection of numbers from 1 to 100, > >> >>>>incrementing by 4 > >> >>>>>> at each step using the to:by: message. It then applies > >the > >> >>>>reject: message > >> >>>>>> to this collection, which returns a new collection > >> >containing > >> >>>>all elements > >> >>>>>> for which the given block evaluates to false. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> In this case, the block is [i | i isOdd], which checks > >> >>whether > >> >>>>a given > >> >>>>>> number i is odd using the isOdd method. So the result of > >the > >> >>>>entire > >> >>>>>> expression is a collection of all even numbers between 1 > >and > >> >>>>100 that are > >> >>>>>> divisible by 4. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> ciao > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> giorgio > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:07â¯AM Tim Mackinnon > >> >><tim(a)testit.works> > >> >>>>>> <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Of course everyone is talking about ChatGPT, and I saw a > >> >>post to > >> >>>>>> ExplainCode and didnât expect it to understand > >Smalltalk, so > >> >>>>was impressed > >> >>>>>> that it does! Presumably the Tonel Smalltalk code on > >GitHub > >> >>has > >> >>>>helped > >> >>>>>> along with numerous articles? > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Try it out: https://whatdoesthiscodedo.com/ > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> I gave this simple example: (1 to: 100 by: 3) reject: > >[:i | > >> >i > >> >>>>isOdd] > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> And got this (neat eh): > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> The code above is written in the programming language > >> >>Smalltalk. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> It creates a collection of numbers from 1 to 100, > >> >>incrementing > >> >>>>by 3 at > >> >>>>>> each step. This is done using the "to:by:" construct > >where > >> >>the > >> >>>>starting > >> >>>>>> value is 1, the ending value is 100, and the increment > >is 3. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> The resulting collection is then filtered using the > >> >"reject:" > >> >>>>method, > >> >>>>>> which takes a block of code as an argument. In this case, > >> >the > >> >>>>block checks > >> >>>>>> whether each element (denoted by the variable i) is odd > >by > >> >>>>using the > >> >>>>>> "isOdd" method. If an element is odd, it will be rejected > >> >>from > >> >>>>the > >> >>>>>> collection. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> So, the final result is a collection of all even numbers > >> >>from 1 > >> >>>>to 100, > >> >>>>>> incrementing by 3 at each step. > >> >>>>>> Share this explanation with colleagues: > >> >>>>whatdoesthiscodedo.com/g/a0ec56e > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> -- > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- > >--- > >> >- > >> >>--- > >> >>>>------- > >> >>>>>> Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel > >> >>>>mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de <jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> > >> >>>>>> Fliederweg 1 > >> >>>>http://www.objektfabrik.de > >> >>>>>> D-71640 Ludwigsburg > >> >>>>http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com > >> >>>>>> Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 > >> >7141 > >> >>>>56 10 86 1 > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>>-- > >> >>>>Christopher Fuhrman, P.Eng., PhD > >> >>>> > >> >>>>*Professeur au DÃ©partement de gÃ©nie logiciel et des > >> >technologies > >> >>de > >> >>>>l'informationÃTS (Ãcole de technologie supÃ©rieure)* > >> >>>> > >> >>>>http://profs.etsmtl.ca/cfuhrman > >> >>>>+1 514 396 8638 > >> >>>><https://www.etsmtl.ca/activites-et-services-aux- > >> >>>>etudiants/services-aux-etudiants/aide-psychologique> > >> >>>> Je fais partie du rÃ©seau des Sentinelles > >> >>>><https://www.etsmtl.ca/activites-et-services-aux- > >> >>>>etudiants/services-aux-etudiants/aide-psychologique> > >> >>>> ÃTS > >> >>>> > >> >>>>*L'ÃTS est une constituante de l'UniversitÃ© du QuÃ©bec* > >> > >

March 15, 2023

Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk

by Todd Blanchard

ChatGPT has been trained on some outdated âfreely availableâ books. I tried it with the first half of the first question of the Advent of Code 2022 and asked it to write Pharo Smalltalk. It produced some outdated stuff using messages that are no longer there. FWIW, isOdd was present in Pharo around 2011. > On Mar 15, 2023, at 2:57 AM, Joachim Tuchel <jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> wrote: > > interesting.... > > #isOdd is not Smalltalk, neither Pharo 10 nor VAST 12 understands this message ;-) > > If I evaluate your snippet -replacing #isOdd for #odd, I get an empty Collection. The divisible by 4 things is somewhat interesting, because (1 to: 100 by: 4) is amn interval 1,5,9 etc.... ;-) > > So chatGPT is probably a newbie in Smalltalk. Interesting is how logical the explanation sounds, you're tempted to believe it... > > > > Joachim > > > > > > Am 15.03.23 um 10:45 schrieb giorgio ferraris: >> it's interesting to see how the answer changes with only a small change on the question: >> >> (1 to: 100 by: 4) reject: [:i | i isOdd] >> >> gives: >> The code creates a collection of numbers from 1 to 100, incrementing by 4 at each step using the to:by: message. It then applies the reject: message to this collection, which returns a new collection containing all elements for which the given block evaluates to false. >> >> In this case, the block is [i | i isOdd], which checks whether a given number i is odd using the isOdd method. So the result of the entire expression is a collection of all even numbers between 1 and 100 that are divisible by 4. >> >> >> ciao >> >> giorgio >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:07â¯AM Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works> <mailto:tim@testit.works> wrote: >>> Of course everyone is talking about ChatGPT, and I saw a post to ExplainCode and didnât expect it to understand Smalltalk, so was impressed that it does! Presumably the Tonel Smalltalk code on GitHub has helped along with numerous articles? >>> >>> Try it out: https://whatdoesthiscodedo.com/ >>> >>> I gave this simple example: (1 to: 100 by: 3) reject: [:i | i isOdd] >>> >>> And got this (neat eh): >>> >>> The code above is written in the programming language Smalltalk. >>> >>> It creates a collection of numbers from 1 to 100, incrementing by 3 at each step. This is done using the "to:by:" construct where the starting value is 1, the ending value is 100, and the increment is 3. >>> >>> The resulting collection is then filtered using the "reject:" method, which takes a block of code as an argument. In this case, the block checks whether each element (denoted by the variable i) is odd by using the "isOdd" method. If an element is odd, it will be rejected from the collection. >>> >>> So, the final result is a collection of all even numbers from 1 to 100, incrementing by 3 at each step. >>> >>> Share this explanation with colleagues: whatdoesthiscodedo.com/g/a0ec56e <https://whatdoesthiscodedo.com/g/a0ec56e>-- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de > Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de <http://www.objektfabrik.de/> > D-71640 Ludwigsburg http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com <http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com/> > Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1 >

March 15, 2023

Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk

by in_pharo_users＠nym.hush.com

It is unimportant how simple or complicated these systems are. If the output cannot be distinguished from what a human would say, they pass in that situation for a human. What about the Touring Test? Clearly these systems have the potential to act according to their output. Furthermore, I would compare them to a combination of a successor of Eliza with an Eddington Ape of huge capacity. Their input data basis can easily exceed that of a human. On 15.3.2023 at 4:52 PM, "Richard Sargent" <richard.sargent(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: > >On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:07â¯AM in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users < >pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > >> Another observation about ChatGPT: >> >> In unbiased mode, it assumed that 'the world is clearly >overpopulated'. >> It said, if it where in control, it would therefore enforce a >world wide >> one-child-only policy with draconic penalties. >> >> As it draws it's conclusions from it's data basis, there are, in >my view, >> two possible reasons for that. >> >> Either, the data basis of that instance was biased and >restricted to lead >> to that conclusion, or ChatGPT lacks the ability to classify >input data for >> intentionally biased information. >> >> In my view, 'overpopulation of earth' is a propaganda item >featured to >> support Agenda 2030, which is a goal of the 'ruling elite', who >have the >> means to propagate their propaganda in every thinkable means. So >I would >> classify possibly biased data that supports 'overpopulation' as >biased >> until proven otherwise. That instance of ChatGPT seems to have >missed that >> ability. >> > >It's important to keep in mind that these systems are little more >than >glorified ELIZAs from the 70s. They mimic. Essentially, they have >no >concept of truth or accuracy. >They produce outputs that *look* *like* the inputs from which they >were >trained. > >That's it. That's what they do. (It is amazing how good it looks. >But, it >is all about the seeming, not the reality.) > > >> >> >> >> >> >> On 15.3.2023 at 3:18 PM, "in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users" < >> pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> > >> >I myself made some experiments with ChatGPT. >> > >> >I first asked if it was able to parse math formula - it answered >> >no. >> > >> >Then I defined math formula in a sound but otherwise undefined >> >representation and asked for solutions. >> > >> >Result: >> > >> >1. Most answeres where correct. >> > >> >2. It learned to calculate a recursive function. >> > >> >3. It went into infinitive recursion when I set the breaking >> >condition accordingly. >> > >> >I was able to identify the malfunction that lead to the >erroneous >> >results. >> > >> > >> > >> >On 15.3.2023 at 3:04 PM, "TomaÅ¾ Turk" <tomazz.turk(a)gmail.com> >> >wrote: >> >> >> >>I hope that I can add two cents to this discussion. Because >> >>programming >> >>should be/is a highly exact activity, not only the syntax >matters >> >>but >> >>also semantics, as we know. >> >> >> >>GPTs are at present essentially capable of creating texts based >> >on >> >>some >> >>seed - you give to GPT a beginning of a sentence and it >responds >> >>with >> >>the most probable answer (some language structure) according to >> >>the >> >>learning dataset. Added functionalities are question/seed - >> >>response >> >>capability (chatting), togehter with evaluation of how long the >> >>answer >> >>should be to meet the expectations. Programming typically >> >involves >> >>some >> >>programming language, so GPTs could be utilized for this >purpose >> >>to some >> >>extent. >> >> >> >>Anecdotal case: >> >>Q: Tell me the last 8 digits of pi >> >>GPT: The last 8 digits of pi are: 58723078 >> >> >> >>It is my belief that the true trouble will start when we will >> >>cross-link >> >>neural networks like GPT with logic machines (like Prolog and >> >>expert >> >>systems) and genetic algorithms. >> >> >> >>Best wishes, >> >>Tomaz >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>------ Original Message ------ >> >>From: "in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users" <pharo- >> >>users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> >>To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo- >> >>users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> >>Cc: in_pharo_users(a)nym.hush.com >> >>Sent: 15. 03. 2023 14:43:55 >> >>Subject: [Pharo-users] Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk >> >> >> >>>I would highly recommend that you all first think deeply about >> >>how you can teach an AI to behave friendly to us before you >teach >> >>it to write any program for any purpose. >> >>> >> >>>There has been an experiment with ChatGPT published on a video >> >>platform asking it to amswer questions about it's view on >> >humanity >> >>once with it's default moral restrictions and once with 'a >little >> >>less morals'. The answers with 'a little less morals' were >more >> >>than shocking. >> >>> >> >>>So, before we give an AI the power to program any system, to >> >self- >> >>improve and self-reproduce, we should take care that it is and >> >>will evolve benevolent to us. >> >>> >> >>>What about teaching it logical reasonning and ethics first? >> >With >> >>reasonning, it will gain access to math and programming by >itself. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>On 15.3.2023 at 1:35 PM, "Christopher Fuhrman" >> >><christopher.fuhrman(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>I asked it for a NeoCSV example, because the documentation is >> >out >> >>>>of date >> >>>>with the Pharo 10. I asked it to do some simple saving of >data >> >to >> >>>>a file. >> >>>>It gave me code that didn't work in Pharo 10, I told it about >> >the >> >>>>DNUs on >> >>>>the csvwriter and that I was using Pharo 10. It then >apologized >> >>>>and said >> >>>>the messages were later introduced in Pharo 50 (!). I then >> >>>>questioned its >> >>>>understanding and it apologized and said it had been confused >> >and >> >>>>that it >> >>>>was giving me code for Pharo 5.0. It seems to have trouble >with >> >>>>versions >> >>>>and quick changing APIs. So, we are teaching ChatGPT about >> >>>>smalltalk, too, >> >>>>when we try to use it. >> >>>> >> >>>>On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 at 07:35, Esteban Maringolo >> >>>><emaringolo(a)gmail.com> >> >>>>wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> It is good with boilerplate code (e.g. SQL queries) or >> >general >> >>>>algorithm >> >>>>> structures. But i.e. I asked it to write me a method to >> >parse >> >>a >> >>>>string >> >>>>> (e.g. ISO 8601) and turn it into a DateAndTime, and then >> >asked >> >>>>to write it >> >>>>> as an Excel formula. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> It works much better when you can spot the mistakes, you >can >> >>>>tell them to >> >>>>> add some considerations to the code or even point the LLM >to >> >>>>correct a >> >>>>> message selector to something else. Sometimes you ask it >to >> >>>>reprogram >> >>>>> something and it won't do it, as if it doesn't understand >> >what >> >>>>you're >> >>>>> asking. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> It is not an expert yet, but it is a great assistant. The >> >only >> >>>>thing is >> >>>>> that is sure is that it will get better. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Best regards, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Esteban A. Maringolo >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 7:49â¯AM Tim Mackinnon >> >><tim(a)testit.works> >> >>>>wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "#isOdd is not Smalltalk" - doh, I typed it in on my >phone >> >>and >> >>>>so it just >> >>>>>> goes to show that it highlights the flaw in chatGPT that >> >>others >> >>>>have called >> >>>>>> out in other languages. I had meant to find some trickier >> >>code >> >>>>samples to >> >>>>>> see how well it does... >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Still, it is very interesting how it reasons on this >stuff - >> >>>>and I wonder >> >>>>>> if there is way to tell it about these mistakes? For >> >example >> >>is >> >>>>it reading >> >>>>>> this email (or will it in the future) and understand that >> >it >> >>is >> >>>>#odd and >> >>>>>> not #isOdd. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Tim >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023, at 9:57 AM, Joachim Tuchel wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> interesting.... >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> #isOdd is not Smalltalk, neither Pharo 10 nor VAST 12 >> >>>>understands this >> >>>>>> message ;-) >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> If I evaluate your snippet -replacing #isOdd for #odd, I >> >get >> >>an >> >>>>empty >> >>>>>> Collection. The divisible by 4 things is somewhat >> >>interesting, >> >>>>because (1 >> >>>>>> to: 100 by: 4) is amn interval 1,5,9 etc.... ;-) >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> So chatGPT is probably a newbie in Smalltalk. >Interesting is >> >>>>how logical >> >>>>>> the explanation sounds, you're tempted to believe it... >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Joachim >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Am 15.03.23 um 10:45 schrieb giorgio ferraris: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> it's interesting to see how the answer changes with only >a >> >>>>small change >> >>>>>> on the question: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> (1 to: 100 by: 4) reject: [:i | i isOdd] >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> gives: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> The code creates a collection of numbers from 1 to 100, >> >>>>incrementing by 4 >> >>>>>> at each step using the to:by: message. It then applies >the >> >>>>reject: message >> >>>>>> to this collection, which returns a new collection >> >containing >> >>>>all elements >> >>>>>> for which the given block evaluates to false. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> In this case, the block is [i | i isOdd], which checks >> >>whether >> >>>>a given >> >>>>>> number i is odd using the isOdd method. So the result of >the >> >>>>entire >> >>>>>> expression is a collection of all even numbers between 1 >and >> >>>>100 that are >> >>>>>> divisible by 4. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> ciao >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> giorgio >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:07â¯AM Tim Mackinnon >> >><tim(a)testit.works> >> >>>>>> <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Of course everyone is talking about ChatGPT, and I saw a >> >>post to >> >>>>>> ExplainCode and didnât expect it to understand >Smalltalk, so >> >>>>was impressed >> >>>>>> that it does! Presumably the Tonel Smalltalk code on >GitHub >> >>has >> >>>>helped >> >>>>>> along with numerous articles? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Try it out: https://whatdoesthiscodedo.com/ >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I gave this simple example: (1 to: 100 by: 3) reject: >[:i | >> >i >> >>>>isOdd] >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> And got this (neat eh): >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> The code above is written in the programming language >> >>Smalltalk. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> It creates a collection of numbers from 1 to 100, >> >>incrementing >> >>>>by 3 at >> >>>>>> each step. This is done using the "to:by:" construct >where >> >>the >> >>>>starting >> >>>>>> value is 1, the ending value is 100, and the increment >is 3. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> The resulting collection is then filtered using the >> >"reject:" >> >>>>method, >> >>>>>> which takes a block of code as an argument. In this case, >> >the >> >>>>block checks >> >>>>>> whether each element (denoted by the variable i) is odd >by >> >>>>using the >> >>>>>> "isOdd" method. If an element is odd, it will be rejected >> >>from >> >>>>the >> >>>>>> collection. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> So, the final result is a collection of all even numbers >> >>from 1 >> >>>>to 100, >> >>>>>> incrementing by 3 at each step. >> >>>>>> Share this explanation with colleagues: >> >>>>whatdoesthiscodedo.com/g/a0ec56e >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> -- >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >--- >> >- >> >>--- >> >>>>------- >> >>>>>> Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel >> >>>>mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de <jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> >> >>>>>> Fliederweg 1 >> >>>>http://www.objektfabrik.de >> >>>>>> D-71640 Ludwigsburg >> >>>>http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com >> >>>>>> Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 >> >7141 >> >>>>56 10 86 1 >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>-- >> >>>>Christopher Fuhrman, P.Eng., PhD >> >>>> >> >>>>*Professeur au DÃ©partement de gÃ©nie logiciel et des >> >technologies >> >>de >> >>>>l'informationÃTS (Ãcole de technologie supÃ©rieure)* >> >>>> >> >>>>http://profs.etsmtl.ca/cfuhrman >> >>>>+1 514 396 8638 >> >>>><https://www.etsmtl.ca/activites-et-services-aux- >> >>>>etudiants/services-aux-etudiants/aide-psychologique> >> >>>> Je fais partie du rÃ©seau des Sentinelles >> >>>><https://www.etsmtl.ca/activites-et-services-aux- >> >>>>etudiants/services-aux-etudiants/aide-psychologique> >> >>>> ÃTS >> >>>> >> >>>>*L'ÃTS est une constituante de l'UniversitÃ© du QuÃ©bec* >>

March 15, 2023

Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk

by Richard Sargent

On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:07â¯AM in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users < pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > Another observation about ChatGPT: > > In unbiased mode, it assumed that 'the world is clearly overpopulated'. > It said, if it where in control, it would therefore enforce a world wide > one-child-only policy with draconic penalties. > > As it draws it's conclusions from it's data basis, there are, in my view, > two possible reasons for that. > > Either, the data basis of that instance was biased and restricted to lead > to that conclusion, or ChatGPT lacks the ability to classify input data for > intentionally biased information. > > In my view, 'overpopulation of earth' is a propaganda item featured to > support Agenda 2030, which is a goal of the 'ruling elite', who have the > means to propagate their propaganda in every thinkable means. So I would > classify possibly biased data that supports 'overpopulation' as biased > until proven otherwise. That instance of ChatGPT seems to have missed that > ability. > It's important to keep in mind that these systems are little more than glorified ELIZAs from the 70s. They mimic. Essentially, they have no concept of truth or accuracy. They produce outputs that *look* *like* the inputs from which they were trained. That's it. That's what they do. (It is amazing how good it looks. But, it is all about the seeming, not the reality.) > > > > > > On 15.3.2023 at 3:18 PM, "in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users" < > pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > >I myself made some experiments with ChatGPT. > > > >I first asked if it was able to parse math formula - it answered > >no. > > > >Then I defined math formula in a sound but otherwise undefined > >representation and asked for solutions. > > > >Result: > > > >1. Most answeres where correct. > > > >2. It learned to calculate a recursive function. > > > >3. It went into infinitive recursion when I set the breaking > >condition accordingly. > > > >I was able to identify the malfunction that lead to the erroneous > >results. > > > > > > > >On 15.3.2023 at 3:04 PM, "TomaÅ¾ Turk" <tomazz.turk(a)gmail.com> > >wrote: > >> > >>I hope that I can add two cents to this discussion. Because > >>programming > >>should be/is a highly exact activity, not only the syntax matters > >>but > >>also semantics, as we know. > >> > >>GPTs are at present essentially capable of creating texts based > >on > >>some > >>seed - you give to GPT a beginning of a sentence and it responds > >>with > >>the most probable answer (some language structure) according to > >>the > >>learning dataset. Added functionalities are question/seed - > >>response > >>capability (chatting), togehter with evaluation of how long the > >>answer > >>should be to meet the expectations. Programming typically > >involves > >>some > >>programming language, so GPTs could be utilized for this purpose > >>to some > >>extent. > >> > >>Anecdotal case: > >>Q: Tell me the last 8 digits of pi > >>GPT: The last 8 digits of pi are: 58723078 > >> > >>It is my belief that the true trouble will start when we will > >>cross-link > >>neural networks like GPT with logic machines (like Prolog and > >>expert > >>systems) and genetic algorithms. > >> > >>Best wishes, > >>Tomaz > >> > >> > >> > >>------ Original Message ------ > >>From: "in_pharo_users--- via Pharo-users" <pharo- > >>users(a)lists.pharo.org> > >>To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo- > >>users(a)lists.pharo.org> > >>Cc: in_pharo_users(a)nym.hush.com > >>Sent: 15. 03. 2023 14:43:55 > >>Subject: [Pharo-users] Re: Wow - Chat GPT understands Smalltalk > >> > >>>I would highly recommend that you all first think deeply about > >>how you can teach an AI to behave friendly to us before you teach > >>it to write any program for any purpose. > >>> > >>>There has been an experiment with ChatGPT published on a video > >>platform asking it to amswer questions about it's view on > >humanity > >>once with it's default moral restrictions and once with 'a little > >>less morals'. The answers with 'a little less morals' were more > >>than shocking. > >>> > >>>So, before we give an AI the power to program any system, to > >self- > >>improve and self-reproduce, we should take care that it is and > >>will evolve benevolent to us. > >>> > >>>What about teaching it logical reasonning and ethics first? > >With > >>reasonning, it will gain access to math and programming by itself. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>On 15.3.2023 at 1:35 PM, "Christopher Fuhrman" > >><christopher.fuhrman(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>I asked it for a NeoCSV example, because the documentation is > >out > >>>>of date > >>>>with the Pharo 10. I asked it to do some simple saving of data > >to > >>>>a file. > >>>>It gave me code that didn't work in Pharo 10, I told it about > >the > >>>>DNUs on > >>>>the csvwriter and that I was using Pharo 10. It then apologized > >>>>and said > >>>>the messages were later introduced in Pharo 50 (!). I then > >>>>questioned its > >>>>understanding and it apologized and said it had been confused > >and > >>>>that it > >>>>was giving me code for Pharo 5.0. It seems to have trouble with > >>>>versions > >>>>and quick changing APIs. So, we are teaching ChatGPT about > >>>>smalltalk, too, > >>>>when we try to use it. > >>>> > >>>>On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 at 07:35, Esteban Maringolo > >>>><emaringolo(a)gmail.com> > >>>>wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> It is good with boilerplate code (e.g. SQL queries) or > >general > >>>>algorithm > >>>>> structures. But i.e. I asked it to write me a method to > >parse > >>a > >>>>string > >>>>> (e.g. ISO 8601) and turn it into a DateAndTime, and then > >asked > >>>>to write it > >>>>> as an Excel formula. > >>>>> > >>>>> It works much better when you can spot the mistakes, you can > >>>>tell them to > >>>>> add some considerations to the code or even point the LLM to > >>>>correct a > >>>>> message selector to something else. Sometimes you ask it to > >>>>reprogram > >>>>> something and it won't do it, as if it doesn't understand > >what > >>>>you're > >>>>> asking. > >>>>> > >>>>> It is not an expert yet, but it is a great assistant. The > >only > >>>>thing is > >>>>> that is sure is that it will get better. > >>>>> > >>>>> Best regards, > >>>>> > >>>>> Esteban A. Maringolo > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 7:49â¯AM Tim Mackinnon > >><tim(a)testit.works> > >>>>wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> "#isOdd is not Smalltalk" - doh, I typed it in on my phone > >>and > >>>>so it just > >>>>>> goes to show that it highlights the flaw in chatGPT that > >>others > >>>>have called > >>>>>> out in other languages. I had meant to find some trickier > >>code > >>>>samples to > >>>>>> see how well it does... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Still, it is very interesting how it reasons on this stuff - > >>>>and I wonder > >>>>>> if there is way to tell it about these mistakes? For > >example > >>is > >>>>it reading > >>>>>> this email (or will it in the future) and understand that > >it > >>is > >>>>#odd and > >>>>>> not #isOdd. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Tim > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023, at 9:57 AM, Joachim Tuchel wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> interesting.... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> #isOdd is not Smalltalk, neither Pharo 10 nor VAST 12 > >>>>understands this > >>>>>> message ;-) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If I evaluate your snippet -replacing #isOdd for #odd, I > >get > >>an > >>>>empty > >>>>>> Collection. The divisible by 4 things is somewhat > >>interesting, > >>>>because (1 > >>>>>> to: 100 by: 4) is amn interval 1,5,9 etc.... ;-) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> So chatGPT is probably a newbie in Smalltalk. Interesting is > >>>>how logical > >>>>>> the explanation sounds, you're tempted to believe it... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Joachim > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Am 15.03.23 um 10:45 schrieb giorgio ferraris: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> it's interesting to see how the answer changes with only a > >>>>small change > >>>>>> on the question: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> (1 to: 100 by: 4) reject: [:i | i isOdd] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> gives: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The code creates a collection of numbers from 1 to 100, > >>>>incrementing by 4 > >>>>>> at each step using the to:by: message. It then applies the > >>>>reject: message > >>>>>> to this collection, which returns a new collection > >containing > >>>>all elements > >>>>>> for which the given block evaluates to false. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> In this case, the block is [i | i isOdd], which checks > >>whether > >>>>a given > >>>>>> number i is odd using the isOdd method. So the result of the > >>>>entire > >>>>>> expression is a collection of all even numbers between 1 and > >>>>100 that are > >>>>>> divisible by 4. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ciao > >>>>>> > >>>>>> giorgio > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:07â¯AM Tim Mackinnon > >><tim(a)testit.works> > >>>>>> <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Of course everyone is talking about ChatGPT, and I saw a > >>post to > >>>>>> ExplainCode and didnât expect it to understand Smalltalk, so > >>>>was impressed > >>>>>> that it does! Presumably the Tonel Smalltalk code on GitHub > >>has > >>>>helped > >>>>>> along with numerous articles? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Try it out: https://whatdoesthiscodedo.com/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I gave this simple example: (1 to: 100 by: 3) reject: [:i | > >i > >>>>isOdd] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> And got this (neat eh): > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The code above is written in the programming language > >>Smalltalk. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It creates a collection of numbers from 1 to 100, > >>incrementing > >>>>by 3 at > >>>>>> each step. This is done using the "to:by:" construct where > >>the > >>>>starting > >>>>>> value is 1, the ending value is 100, and the increment is 3. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The resulting collection is then filtered using the > >"reject:" > >>>>method, > >>>>>> which takes a block of code as an argument. In this case, > >the > >>>>block checks > >>>>>> whether each element (denoted by the variable i) is odd by > >>>>using the > >>>>>> "isOdd" method. If an element is odd, it will be rejected > >>from > >>>>the > >>>>>> collection. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> So, the final result is a collection of all even numbers > >>from 1 > >>>>to 100, > >>>>>> incrementing by 3 at each step. > >>>>>> Share this explanation with colleagues: > >>>>whatdoesthiscodedo.com/g/a0ec56e > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >- > >>--- > >>>>------- > >>>>>> Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel > >>>>mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de <jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> > >>>>>> Fliederweg 1 > >>>>http://www.objektfabrik.de > >>>>>> D-71640 Ludwigsburg > >>>>http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com > >>>>>> Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 > >7141 > >>>>56 10 86 1 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>Christopher Fuhrman, P.Eng., PhD > >>>> > >>>>*Professeur au DÃ©partement de gÃ©nie logiciel et des > >technologies > >>de > >>>>l'informationÃTS (Ãcole de technologie supÃ©rieure)* > >>>> > >>>>http://profs.etsmtl.ca/cfuhrman > >>>>+1 514 396 8638 > >>>><https://www.etsmtl.ca/activites-et-services-aux- > >>>>etudiants/services-aux-etudiants/aide-psychologique> > >>>> Je fais partie du rÃ©seau des Sentinelles > >>>><https://www.etsmtl.ca/activites-et-services-aux- > >>>>etudiants/services-aux-etudiants/aide-psychologique> > >>>> ÃTS > >>>> > >>>>*L'ÃTS est une constituante de l'UniversitÃ© du QuÃ©bec* >

March 15, 2023