April 2021 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: We haven't had a design debate in a while - thoughts on CD.buy article...

by Russ Whaley

ðð On Sat, Apr 17, 2021 at 12:37 PM StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > > On 16 Apr 2021, at 19:24, Richard Sargent < > richard.sargent(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: > > > > I remember - way back in the dark ages - walking into a music store, > picking up a CD, and asking it to buy itself. Every single time, the > response was the same: nothing. > > May be it was a NullCDObject :) > > S. > -- Russ Whaley whaley.russ(a)gmail.com

April 18, 2021

Re: Whats the easiest/cheapest way to run a Pharo web app in 2021?

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Thanks for the details. I think that with the one from Norbert, you and me[1], there are at least 3 static site generators made with Pharo (and there was an old one, but I don't remember its name and I think is unmaintained). I wonder if there is some kind of Awesome Pharo alike list, to start adding them to a known place. There is the Pharo Documentation Wiki[2], but I kind of remember a longer more detailed list. Ummm... now I wonder if we could list a kind of decentralized list of "Powered by Pharo" projects taken from our personal, community or enterprise web sites. We may agree on using some kind of tags in the metadata to recover such distributed catalogue of projects. Certainly in my (incomplete) recent portfolio[3], Pharo has been a constant, in visible and invisible ways. [1] https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/indieweb/ (in Spanish and under development/alpha) [2] https://github.com/pharo-open-documentation/pharo-wiki [3] https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/offray-blog/uv/bliki/index.html# Cheers, Offray On 8/04/21 8:33 p.Â m., Pierce Ng wrote: > On Thu, Apr 08, 2021 at 11:58:10AM +0100, Tim Mackinnon wrote: >> Pierce - who/where are you rnning your Docker image? Do you use a >> particular service (or are you running your own?) > I am using a Linux VPS which I manage myself. > > The Pharo application is my blog. It was a web app fronted by a HTTPS > reverse proxy. At the start of this year I rewrote it into a static site > generator. Instead of running all the time, Pharo is now invoked when > triggered by a CI hook, which happens when I publish a new blog post or > otherwise update my site. > > I play with all kinds of software on my VPS and it was getting a bit RAM > cramped, hence the rewrite. Wasn't willing to spend more money every month > for more RAM. :-P > > Pierce

April 17, 2021

Re: We haven't had a design debate in a while - thoughts on CD.buy article...

by Tim Mackinnon

I think that is a nice end to this threadâ¦ you guys really made me chuckle. > On 17 Apr 2021, at 17:36, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > >> On 16 Apr 2021, at 19:24, Richard Sargent <richard.sargent(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: >> >> I remember - way back in the dark ages - walking into a music store, picking up a CD, and asking it to buy itself. Every single time, the response was the same: nothing. > > May be it was a NullCDObject :) > > S.

April 17, 2021

Re: We haven't had a design debate in a while - thoughts on CD.buy article...

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> On 16 Apr 2021, at 19:24, Richard Sargent <richard.sargent(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: > > I remember - way back in the dark ages - walking into a music store, picking up a CD, and asking it to buy itself. Every single time, the response was the same: nothing. May be it was a NullCDObject :) S.

April 17, 2021

Fwd: Re: Re: Whats the easiest/cheapest way to run a Pharo web app in 2021?

by Jonathan van Alteren

Hi Tim, all, Weirdly enough, it seems my earlier reply to this thread hasn't been properly received/distributed by the list. Marcus was very kind to help me solve this, so you should receive this message now. Anyway... see my original message below. Hope it's still useful. ----- Hi Tim, Didn't really notice this thread until now. I understand you're looking into deployment using Docker. However, to provide some perspective, we're happily running Pharo in production on a (self-managed) VPS on Hetzner Cloud (which uses 100% green energy!). We use our own adaptation of Pharo server tools based on Sven's original work:Â https://github.com/objectguild/pharo-server-tools. We started with running Pharo 7.0 and have since upgraded to Pharo 8.0. Some experience with Linux command line is certainly welcome, but it should be fairly easy to get this going. Mind you, the README is (unfortunately) _not_ up to date. Regarding Docker, I don't have much experience myself. I've only used it a couple of times to troubleshoot smalltalkCI issues, never for running a Pharo server application. Hope this is of some use to you or others. Good luck and have fun! ----- Best, Jonathan van Alteren Founding Member | Object Guild B.V. Software that works âwithâ you jonathan(a)objectguild.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jonathan van Alteren <jvalteren(a)objectguild.com> Date: 8 Apr 2021, 13:19 +0200 To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Re: Whats the easiest/cheapest way to run a Pharo web app in 2021? > Hi Tim, > > Didn't really notice this thread until now. I understand you're looking into deployment using Docker. However, to provide some perspective, we're happily running Pharo in production on a (self-managed) VPS on Hetzner Cloud (which uses 100% green energy!). > > We use our own adaptation of Pharo server tools based on Sven's original work:Â https://github.com/objectguild/pharo-server-tools. We started with running Pharo 7.0 and have since upgraded to Pharo 8.0. Some experience with Linux command line is certainly welcome, but it should be fairly easy to get this going. Mind you, the README is (unfortunately) _not_ up to date. > > Regarding Docker, I don't have much experience myself. I've only used it a couple of times to troubleshoot smalltalkCI issues, never for running a Pharo server application. > > Hope this is of some use to you or others. Good luck and have fun! > > > Kind regards, > > Jonathan van Alteren > > Founding Member | Object Guild B.V. > Software that works âwithâ you > > jonathan(a)objectguild.com > > On 8 Apr 2021, 12:58 +0200, Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works>, wrote: > > Head slap.... I completely forgot I could do that, thanks for reminding Pierce (its almost better as well, as you can build your image, save it, then run tests on it, and then if it passes all your stages you can included the saved version in your docker build... which sits better with me as it also means that log artifacts etc can be more easily examined for failures (and your not trying to console into a docker image to figure it out). As a nice side effect - if you are doing this in something like Gitlab - you have your project source already there and so you can avoid an extra checkout step, so its a little bit faster. > > > > Pierce - who/where are you rnning your Docker image? Do you use a particular service (or are you running your own?) > > > > Tim > > > > > > > > On Thu, 8 Apr 2021, at 4:29 AM, Pierce Ng wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 02:21:14AM +0100, Tim Mackinnon wrote: > > > > I also feel its quite important to call out that the "eval 'Metacello > > > > new..." command referenced in the DockerFile RUN - is only going to work > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I build my Pharo image outside of Docker. My Dockerfile then packages the > > > built image plus whatever artefacts required into a Docker image. I am > > > using my Alpine Linux-based VM. > > > > > > GH: https://github.com/pharo-contributions/Docker-Alpine/ > > > DH: https://hub.docker.com/r/pierceng/pharovm-alpine > > > > > > Pierce > > >

April 17, 2021

Re: We haven't had a design debate in a while - thoughts on CD.buy article...

by giorgio ferraris

Hi, Russ, I feel better after reading your mail :) That's the way I modeled and still model things in my (long...) developer life, so I felt a bit strange after reading that discussion.... ciao giorgio On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 3:45 PM Russ Whaley <whaley.russ(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Wow, I must be missing a whole lot of context in that discussion... > (instant reaction as well, lol) > > - a product (CD, book, etc.) does not 'buy' - it can be bought, sure, but > it has no buying action. Even in another context a CD does not 'play'... > aMusicPlayer.play(aCD). > - However, a customer can 'buy' a product... > > - customer.buy(aCD) -or- > - customer.addToCart(aCD) > - customer.checkOut(aCart) > - Invoice.new(aCart), etc. > > - ... but the CD doesn't DO anything. > > - I get the idea that different products might have different behaviour > when they are 'bought' - but these are, in this example, fulfillment - not > the 'buy' action... > > - aCDstream might be set for download > - aCDphysical might be set to physically pull off a shelf and ship > - aCDcare might send an email on warranty, whatever... but let's name > it better than 'buy' :) > > Tim, thanks for the link - I'm always trying to expand my thinking about > object modeling - discovering cool ways/things others are thinking > about... Now I have to go dust off all my old POS (point of sale, not > piece of s#&t) code and see how poorly I may have modeled those > environments!! > > Thanks for the morning diversion! Cheers. > > On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 8:53 AM Esteban Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I saw a tweet about that, and I think that the example is misleading, >> maybe intentionally so. >> >> I don't think anybody would model it that way, in any case you'd have >> aProduct.buy() or aProduct.addToCart(aCart). >> >> If you think it with the typical dog.bark() it certainly makes more sense >> than bark(dog). >> >> Regards! >> >> Esteban A. Maringolo >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 5:20 AM Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: >> >>> Hi guys - someone pointed out this article from a UK colleague which >>> seems to be causing a flurry of discussion - but I always like the insights >>> of this group. I had an instant reaction when I read it - but curious what >>> people here think in 2021. >>> >>> >>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jasongorman_the-year-is-2021-and-people-stil… >>> >>> Tim >>> >> > > -- > Russ Whaley > whaley.russ(a)gmail.com >

April 17, 2021

Pharo-IOT Remote Dev connection Issue

by Jupiter Jones

Hi, I have a PharoThings environment which Iâm updating to version 0.3.2 and keep hitting the following DNU error when runningâ¦ remotePharo := TlpRemoteIDE connectTo: (TCPAddress ip: ip port: 40423). â¦from the Mac client to the pi server (image below). A SeamlessDefaultRequestContext does not understand #ownBytes: â¦which is correct - it does not :) Iâm guessing #materializeObject in the code just before the error, should have answered a SeamlessRequest. The git page claims itâs building successfully, and Iâve tried re-installing both the client on the Mac and the server on the pi, and get the same error each time. Is this a known error? Or am I doing something wrong? Thanks in advance for any advice. Cheers, J

April 17, 2021

Re: We haven't had a design debate in a while - thoughts on CD.buy article...

by Richard Sargent

I remember - way back in the dark ages - walking into a music store, picking up a CD, and asking it to buy itself. Every single time, the response was the same: nothing. On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 10:07 AM Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: > Its comforting to see that other have the same reaction as me - I agree > with the sentiment that you send messages to objects - and the naming of > those messages and their context is important. > > and CD.buy - is at least a message to an object but as others have > commented, it highlights flaws in the context or modelling as it just > doesn't read right. I'd model it different too. > > Phew, I'm not losing it.... > > Tim > > On Fri, 16 Apr 2021, at 2:44 PM, Russ Whaley wrote: > > Wow, I must be missing a whole lot of context in that discussion... > (instant reaction as well, lol) > > - a product (CD, book, etc.) does not 'buy' - it can be bought, sure, but > it has no buying action. Even in another context a CD does not 'play'... > aMusicPlayer.play(aCD). > - However, a customer can 'buy' a product... > > - customer.buy(aCD) -or- > - customer.addToCart(aCD) > - customer.checkOut(aCart) > - Invoice.new(aCart), etc. > > - ... but the CD doesn't DO anything. > > - I get the idea that different products might have different behaviour > when they are 'bought' - but these are, in this example, fulfillment - not > the 'buy' action... > > - aCDstream might be set for download > - aCDphysical might be set to physically pull off a shelf and ship > - aCDcare might send an email on warranty, whatever... but let's name > it better than 'buy' :) > > Tim, thanks for the link - I'm always trying to expand my thinking about > object modeling - discovering cool ways/things others are thinking > about... Now I have to go dust off all my old POS (point of sale, not > piece of s#&t) code and see how poorly I may have modeled those > environments!! > > Thanks for the morning diversion! Cheers. > > On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 8:53 AM Esteban Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > I saw a tweet about that, and I think that the example is misleading, > maybe intentionally so. > > I don't think anybody would model it that way, in any case you'd have > aProduct.buy() or aProduct.addToCart(aCart). > > If you think it with the typical dog.bark() it certainly makes more sense > than bark(dog). > > Regards! > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > > On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 5:20 AM Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: > > Hi guys - someone pointed out this article from a UK colleague which seems > to be causing a flurry of discussion - but I always like the insights of > this group. I had an instant reaction when I read it - but curious what > people here think in 2021. > > > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jasongorman_the-year-is-2021-and-people-stil… > > Tim > > > > -- > Russ Whaley > whaley.russ(a)gmail.com > > >

April 16, 2021

Re: We haven't had a design debate in a while - thoughts on CD.buy article...

by Tim Mackinnon

Its comforting to see that other have the same reaction as me - I agree with the sentiment that you send messages to objects - and the naming of those messages and their context is important. and CD.buy - is at least a message to an object but as others have commented, it highlights flaws in the context or modelling as it just doesn't read right. I'd model it different too. Phew, I'm not losing it.... Tim On Fri, 16 Apr 2021, at 2:44 PM, Russ Whaley wrote: > Wow, I must be missing a whole lot of context in that discussion... (instant reaction as well, lol) > > - a product (CD, book, etc.) does not 'buy' - it can be bought, sure, but it has no buying action. Even in another context a CD does not 'play'... aMusicPlayer.play(aCD). > - However, a customer can 'buy' a product... > * customer.buy(aCD) -or- > * customer.addToCart(aCD) > * customer.checkOut(aCart) > * Invoice.new(aCart), etc. > - ... but the CD doesn't DO anything. > > - I get the idea that different products might have different behaviour when they are 'bought' - but these are, in this example, fulfillment - not the 'buy' action... > * aCDstream might be set for download > * aCDphysical might be set to physically pull off a shelf and ship > * aCDcare might send an email on warranty, whatever... but let's name it better than 'buy' :) > Tim, thanks for the link - I'm always trying to expand my thinking about object modeling - discovering cool ways/things others are thinking about... Now I have to go dust off all my old POS (point of sale, not piece of s#&t) code and see how poorly I may have modeled those environments!! > > Thanks for the morning diversion! Cheers. > > On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 8:53 AM Esteban Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I saw a tweet about that, and I think that the example is misleading, maybe intentionally so. >> >> I don't think anybody would model it that way, in any case you'd have aProduct.buy() or aProduct.addToCart(aCart). >> >> If you think it with the typical dog.bark() it certainly makes more sense than bark(dog). >> >> Regards! >> >> Esteban A. Maringolo >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 5:20 AM Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: >>> Hi guys - someone pointed out this article from a UK colleague which seems to be causing a flurry of discussion - but I always like the insights of this group. I had an instant reaction when I read it - but curious what people here think in 2021. >>> >>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jasongorman_the-year-is-2021-and-people-stil… >>> >>> Tim > > > -- > Russ Whaley > whaley.russ(a)gmail.com

April 16, 2021

Re: Crash after http request, see the dump file

by David Pennington

Nope. Just stderr. It is continuing to happy at random times so it is obviously connected to page requests. I have some logging in. Place so I have increased that to try and help get to the point where it happens. David > On 16 Apr 2021, at 15:45, Davide Varvello via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > Hi David, > Usually when the image crashes you'll find a crash.dmp file. > It's weird there isn't anything > Davide > > > Long Haired David wrote >> Sorry to but in here but I have just moved my Pharo/Seaside server >> software from my MacBookAir, where it has run without issue for the last >> couple of weeks, onto firstly a Lenovo desktop running Windows 2012 server >> and then, in frustration , onto a Dell laptop but it hasnât managed to run >> for 24 hours without crashing (by crashing, I mean Pharo just >> disappears!). I donât us any OsProcess, just ordinary Seaside and >> Smalltalk code. It has happened three days in a row at different times >> with different pages being accessed. >> >> Both Windows machines have ample disk space (SSD) and 16GB memory. >> >> How do I get a dump as I canât see any files that would be regarded as so? >> >> David >> >>> On 15 Apr 2021, at 14:55, Guillermo Polito < > >> guillermopolito@ > >> > wrote: >>> >>> Hi Davide, >>> >>> Taking a look at the dump, Iâd say it looks like a memory corruption. >>> It crashes when running the GC, but very probably because the heap was >>> already corrupt. >>> >>> >>> 5 Pharo 0x000000010582ea3b mapStackPages >>> + 345 >>> 6 Pharo 0x000000010582e0ff >>> mapInterpreterOops + 16 >>> 7 Pharo 0x000000010580af54 doScavenge + >>> 648 >>> 8 Pharo 0x000000010581305e >>> scavengingGCTenuringIf + 333 >>> 9 Pharo 0x00000001057f663a >>> checkForEventsMayContextSwitch + 111 >>> 10 Pharo 0x00000001057fa815 >>> ceStackOverflow + 110 >>> 11 ??? 0x000000010b25c62b 0x0 + >>> 4481992235 >>> 12 Pharo 0x00000001057e2b0a interpret + >>> 632 >>> >>> Does this happen often in your setup? >>> >>> G >>> >>> >>>> El 14 abr 2021, a las 10:21, Davide Varvello via Pharo-users < > >> pharo-users@.pharo > >> <mailto: > >> pharo-users@.pharo > >> >> escribiÃ³: >>>> >>>> Hi Sven, >>>> It has not happened today. I also use a lot of OsProcess, but I don't >>>> know >>>> if it is related to it. >>>> Cheers >>>> Davide >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote >>>>> I can't see anything networking, HTTP or Zinc related in the dump. >>>>> It looks like something went wrong during garbage collection. >>>>> I suppose this is not a repeatable case, is it ? >>>>> >>>>>> On 14 Apr 2021, at 09:22, Davide Varvello via Pharo-users < >>>> >>>>> pharo-users@.pharo >>>> >>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi guys, >>>>>> I'm working on Pharo 8 on BigSur >>>>>> (Pharo 8.0.0 Build information: >>>>>> Pharo-8.0.0+build.1128.sha.9f6475d88dda7d83acdeeda794df35d304cf620d >>>>>> (64 >>>>>> Bit)) >>>>>> >>>>>> Yesterday after an http call to my zinc server the image crashed. >>>>>> Can you please take a look to the dump file and tell me what happened? >>>>>> >>>>>> It would be worth so much to me, thank you >>>>>> >>>>>> The file is here: https://pastebin.com/SrE6gcCv >>>>>> <https://pastebin.com/SrE6gcCv> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Davide >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>>>>> <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>>> <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html> > > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

April 16, 2021