August 2020 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

by Russ Whaley

Here are a couple of items with my first 5 minutes with the TODO tutorial... TODOListPresenter >> initializePresenters todoListPresenter := self newTable addColumn: ((SpCheckBoxTableColumn evaluated: [:task | task isDone]) width: 20); addColumn: (SpStringTableColumn title: 'Title' evaluated: [:task | task title]); yourself. self layout: (SpBoxLayout newVertical add: todoListPresenter; yourself) In this portion (Showing Tasks) - it does not define todoListPresenter.... is it a local or a missed instVar. I tried it first as a local to enable save, but then... TODOListPresenter >> updatePresenter todoListPresenter items: TODOTask selectAll asOrderedCollection todoListPresenter isn't available for updatePresenter... so I'm assuming it must be an instvar? I created accessors, then changed all the todoListPresenter references to use the accessors (below). TODOListPresenter >> initializePresenters self todoListPresenter: (self newTable addColumn: ((SpCheckBoxTableColumn evaluated: [:task | task isDone]) width: 20); addColumn: (SpStringTableColumn title: 'Title' evaluated: [:task | task title]); yourself). self layout: (SpBoxLayout newVertical add: self todoListPresenter; yourself) and... TODOListPresenter >> updatePresenter self todoListPresenter items: TODOTask selectAll asOrderedCollection Also, in the first example - task isDone needs to be defined (and might be defined later in the tutorial) - I'm assuming SpCheckBoxTableColumn>>evaluated: is expecting a boolean, or do I need to convert this somehow? I can check all these things out - but just curious if I'm missing something? TODOTask >> done ^ done TODOTask >> isDone ^ self done I'll go through a bit more and update you on my progress. Ted, I also hope to get to take a look at Zebra today :) On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 2:07 PM StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > On 2 Aug 2020, at 19:51, tbrunz <wild.ideas(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I've been thinking lately that it would be nice to expand the number of > Pharo tutorials we have available. But rather than (or along with) > creating > more "beginner" level tutorials, I'd like to see some good "intermediate" > level Pharo tutorials. > > > Me too :) > > > Let's do it, then. I'll volunteer to do most of the work. :^) > > > I will review anything you write :) > > > My hope is that participating in this will make me capable of creating > advanced tutorials all by myself. > > > I usually like to write to learn and dump what I learned. > > > I think that programmers who already know the Pharo > syntax and messaging semantics could benefit from more advanced tutorials > that demonstrate how to develop "real world" Pharo code for "real world" > processing needs. > > > Yes yes I would love that. > > > That was part of my motivation for creating a Pharo app to solve the Zebra > Puzzle. First, of course, I wanted to solve it. ;^) > > > I will send you some feeedback and PR. > > > What I'm talking about is something that assumes you know the language, > the > basics of the IDE (but not necessarily how to leverage its capabilities > to > aid development), and the basics of the foundation classes (but not its > details). I'd like a tutorial for intermediate Pharo programmers who > want > to become experts with Pharo. Something that can show you how to apply > the > tools of the IDE and the features of the language and base classes to > create > solutions that solve complex problems. > > > do you have ideas? > > > I do! > > As I started building the Logic Puzzle app, it occurred to me that I could > probably find several different, common structures in OOP (specifically, > Pharo) to add to the solution. And then each would be its own example of > "what real Pharo code looks like". I.e., be good examples. > > But first, I needed to explore "how to do it in Pharo" for myself, which > naturally would have me working the IDE strongly. > > Then I thought, the entire application can/should be an example, so it > should be a tutorial. > > That means that I need more than just a completed application (that's "just > an example"). To be a *tutorial*, it means starting from scratch, showing > how to approach the solution, how to start a Pharo app, how to use the IDE, > how to write tests, how to refactor code, etc. > > Then I thought, this needs a GUI. Either a Spec2 UI or a web app UI (with > Seaside or Teapot). But I would need help with that! So I'll start by > creating a message-based solution, and maybe get help to add a UI later. > > I did some prototyping, then got what I think might be a good code > structure > (by version 4; it took a while to "think pure OOP"; old habits are hard to > fight against). It runs, it works. > > But.. Is it "good Pharo code"? I'm not experienced enough to answer that > question. I need a code review, criticism, guidance. Point me in the > right > direction and I'll keep working on it, and start thinking about how to > express the "meta" elements (how to use the IDE to make/test the code, > etc.). > > What does the community think of this idea? > > > I love it. I did Pharo by example so that I can get of rid of the beginner > > parts. > > After I did learning OOP and Pharo with style so that I do not have to talk > > about it > > again. > > So definitively. > > > Okay, great. I'll do most of the work. But I need help... > > I don't want to go any further without someone much more experienced than I > am to review what I have and let me know what I'm doing right & what I'm > doing "no quite so right". Yes, it runs, it works -- but that's *not* good > enough. The goal here isn't to "hack out a solution and move on", the goal > is to "create an example and tutorial that's high enough quality to use to > teach Pharo to other people". I don't want to be teaching *my* bad habits! > > Also, I know next to nothing about Spec2 or Seaside/Teapot. I just know > that I need to learn it, and I need to use it to give my tutorial a UI (or > two). Newcomers will show up wanting to learn Pharo, and they need to be > reassured that they can create nice (enough) UIs without a huge effort. > (Not everyone is a command line hacker, and end-users certainly don't want > to be.) > > The more I learn (from you), the more I can be independent, and the more > tutorials I could produce -- without a lot of help. I'm willing to do the > work, because that will help make me a Pharo "master programmer". (I don't > want to be a hack, and I can't really be a trainer if I'm just a hack > myself.) > > I'll pay back the community by helping to attract and advance more > developers' skills. I just have to have the more advanced knowledge & > skills myself. So, train the (future) trainer, anyone?? > > -Ted > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > > -------------------------------------------- > StÃ©phane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org > 03 59 35 87 52 > Assistant: Aurore Dalle > FAX 03 59 57 78 50 > TEL 03 59 35 86 16 > S. Ducasse - Inria > 40, avenue Halley, > Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza > Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 > France > > -- Russ Whaley whaley.russ(a)gmail.com

Aug. 2, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

by tbrunz

>> Let's do it, then. I'll volunteer to do most of the work. :^) > >I will review anything you write :) I'll write well and add lots of comments to make that easy for you. :^D >> My hope is that participating in this will make me capable of creating >> advanced tutorials all by myself. > >I usually like to write to learn and dump what I learned. That describes me very well, too. Teaching others (who want to learn) is fun. That often provides just the motivation I need to make something, do it right, and then publish the results (including my own insights). And you learn best when you're teaching others. I see that all the time. So I don't really understand all these people who don't want to learn anything -- don't want to learn something new, or don't want to learn better ways of doing what they're already doing. Maybe most of them are "too busy". I'm too busy, but I work at it. (?) >>>> I think that programmers who already know the Pharo >>>> syntax and messaging semantics could benefit from more advanced >>>> tutorials >>>> that demonstrate how to develop "real world" Pharo code for "real >>>> world" >>>> processing needs. >>> >>> Yes yes I would love that. >> >> That was part of my motivation for creating a Pharo app to solve the >> Zebra >> Puzzle. First, of course, I wanted to solve it. ;^) > >I will send you some feeedback and PR. Thanks! -t -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Aug. 2, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Class side vs instance side (variables and methods)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

ted basically > Dog class>>newWhite > "Returns a new white instance of receiver." > ^self new > color: Color white; > yourself is equivalent to > Dog class>>newWhite > "Returns a new white instance of receiver.â > | instance | instance := self new. instance color: Color white; > > ^ instance So this is really when you do not know what a subclass may do with reimplementing color: so yourself make sure that your extenders can be doing crazy things, your job is good. S. > On 2 Aug 2020, at 19:55, tbrunz <wild.ideas(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Got it. Seems like an important point for those who are trying to understand > the difference between instances and classes. > > I've gotten strange results myself until I learned that #yourself is an > essential thing... > > -t > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

Aug. 2, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Class side vs instance side (variables and methods)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

+1 > On 2 Aug 2020, at 19:37, Richard Sargent <rsargent(a)5x5.on.ca> wrote: > > > > On August 2, 2020 10:16:54 AM PDT, tbrunz <wild.ideas(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Thanks, Richard. >> >> So adding #yourself is mostly needed for cases where you send #add: to >> an >> OrderedCollection (because that returns the added element instead of >> returning the collection as most expect it would)? > > No. > > It is used when you don't know what the last message send answers. And, *that* is most of the time, because even when you know the answer today, you don't know the future changes. > > >> >> I've been adding it in all cases, which I guess does no harm. > > That is the correct answer. Add it unless you want the result of the last message send. > > >> >> -t >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

Aug. 2, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> On 2 Aug 2020, at 19:51, tbrunz <wild.ideas(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>> I've been thinking lately that it would be nice to expand the number of >>> Pharo tutorials we have available. But rather than (or along with) >>> creating >>> more "beginner" level tutorials, I'd like to see some good "intermediate" >>> level Pharo tutorials. >> >> Me too :) > > Let's do it, then. I'll volunteer to do most of the work. :^) I will review anything you write :) > > My hope is that participating in this will make me capable of creating > advanced tutorials all by myself. I usually like to write to learn and dump what I learned. > >>> I think that programmers who already know the Pharo >>> syntax and messaging semantics could benefit from more advanced tutorials >>> that demonstrate how to develop "real world" Pharo code for "real world" >>> processing needs. >> >> Yes yes I would love that. > > That was part of my motivation for creating a Pharo app to solve the Zebra > Puzzle. First, of course, I wanted to solve it. ;^) I will send you some feeedback and PR. > >>> What I'm talking about is something that assumes you know the language, >>> the >>> basics of the IDE (but not necessarily how to leverage its capabilities >>> to >>> aid development), and the basics of the foundation classes (but not its >>> details). I'd like a tutorial for intermediate Pharo programmers who >>> want >>> to become experts with Pharo. Something that can show you how to apply >>> the >>> tools of the IDE and the features of the language and base classes to >>> create >>> solutions that solve complex problems. >> >> do you have ideas? > > I do! > > As I started building the Logic Puzzle app, it occurred to me that I could > probably find several different, common structures in OOP (specifically, > Pharo) to add to the solution. And then each would be its own example of > "what real Pharo code looks like". I.e., be good examples. > > But first, I needed to explore "how to do it in Pharo" for myself, which > naturally would have me working the IDE strongly. > > Then I thought, the entire application can/should be an example, so it > should be a tutorial. > > That means that I need more than just a completed application (that's "just > an example"). To be a *tutorial*, it means starting from scratch, showing > how to approach the solution, how to start a Pharo app, how to use the IDE, > how to write tests, how to refactor code, etc. > > Then I thought, this needs a GUI. Either a Spec2 UI or a web app UI (with > Seaside or Teapot). But I would need help with that! So I'll start by > creating a message-based solution, and maybe get help to add a UI later. > > I did some prototyping, then got what I think might be a good code structure > (by version 4; it took a while to "think pure OOP"; old habits are hard to > fight against). It runs, it works. > > But.. Is it "good Pharo code"? I'm not experienced enough to answer that > question. I need a code review, criticism, guidance. Point me in the right > direction and I'll keep working on it, and start thinking about how to > express the "meta" elements (how to use the IDE to make/test the code, > etc.). > >>> What does the community think of this idea? >> >> I love it. I did Pharo by example so that I can get of rid of the beginner > parts. >> After I did learning OOP and Pharo with style so that I do not have to talk > about it >> again. >> >> So definitively. > > Okay, great. I'll do most of the work. But I need help... > > I don't want to go any further without someone much more experienced than I > am to review what I have and let me know what I'm doing right & what I'm > doing "no quite so right". Yes, it runs, it works -- but that's *not* good > enough. The goal here isn't to "hack out a solution and move on", the goal > is to "create an example and tutorial that's high enough quality to use to > teach Pharo to other people". I don't want to be teaching *my* bad habits! > > Also, I know next to nothing about Spec2 or Seaside/Teapot. I just know > that I need to learn it, and I need to use it to give my tutorial a UI (or > two). Newcomers will show up wanting to learn Pharo, and they need to be > reassured that they can create nice (enough) UIs without a huge effort. > (Not everyone is a command line hacker, and end-users certainly don't want > to be.) > > The more I learn (from you), the more I can be independent, and the more > tutorials I could produce -- without a lot of help. I'm willing to do the > work, because that will help make me a Pharo "master programmer". (I don't > want to be a hack, and I can't really be a trainer if I'm just a hack > myself.) > > I'll pay back the community by helping to attract and advance more > developers' skills. I just have to have the more advanced knowledge & > skills myself. So, train the (future) trainer, anyone?? > > -Ted > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

Aug. 2, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Class side vs instance side (variables and methods)

by tbrunz

Got it. Seems like an important point for those who are trying to understand the difference between instances and classes. I've gotten strange results myself until I learned that #yourself is an essential thing... -t -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Aug. 2, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

by tbrunz

>> I've been thinking lately that it would be nice to expand the number of >> Pharo tutorials we have available. But rather than (or along with) >> creating >> more "beginner" level tutorials, I'd like to see some good "intermediate" >> level Pharo tutorials. > >Me too :) Let's do it, then. I'll volunteer to do most of the work. :^) My hope is that participating in this will make me capable of creating advanced tutorials all by myself. >> I think that programmers who already know the Pharo >> syntax and messaging semantics could benefit from more advanced tutorials >> that demonstrate how to develop "real world" Pharo code for "real world" >> processing needs. > >Yes yes I would love that. That was part of my motivation for creating a Pharo app to solve the Zebra Puzzle. First, of course, I wanted to solve it. ;^) >> What I'm talking about is something that assumes you know the language, >> the >> basics of the IDE (but not necessarily how to leverage its capabilities >> to >> aid development), and the basics of the foundation classes (but not its >> details). I'd like a tutorial for intermediate Pharo programmers who >> want >> to become experts with Pharo. Something that can show you how to apply >> the >> tools of the IDE and the features of the language and base classes to >> create >> solutions that solve complex problems. > >do you have ideas? I do! As I started building the Logic Puzzle app, it occurred to me that I could probably find several different, common structures in OOP (specifically, Pharo) to add to the solution. And then each would be its own example of "what real Pharo code looks like". I.e., be good examples. But first, I needed to explore "how to do it in Pharo" for myself, which naturally would have me working the IDE strongly. Then I thought, the entire application can/should be an example, so it should be a tutorial. That means that I need more than just a completed application (that's "just an example"). To be a *tutorial*, it means starting from scratch, showing how to approach the solution, how to start a Pharo app, how to use the IDE, how to write tests, how to refactor code, etc. Then I thought, this needs a GUI. Either a Spec2 UI or a web app UI (with Seaside or Teapot). But I would need help with that! So I'll start by creating a message-based solution, and maybe get help to add a UI later. I did some prototyping, then got what I think might be a good code structure (by version 4; it took a while to "think pure OOP"; old habits are hard to fight against). It runs, it works. But.. Is it "good Pharo code"? I'm not experienced enough to answer that question. I need a code review, criticism, guidance. Point me in the right direction and I'll keep working on it, and start thinking about how to express the "meta" elements (how to use the IDE to make/test the code, etc.). >> What does the community think of this idea? > >I love it. I did Pharo by example so that I can get of rid of the beginner parts. >After I did learning OOP and Pharo with style so that I do not have to talk about it >again. > >So definitively. Okay, great. I'll do most of the work. But I need help... I don't want to go any further without someone much more experienced than I am to review what I have and let me know what I'm doing right & what I'm doing "no quite so right". Yes, it runs, it works -- but that's *not* good enough. The goal here isn't to "hack out a solution and move on", the goal is to "create an example and tutorial that's high enough quality to use to teach Pharo to other people". I don't want to be teaching *my* bad habits! Also, I know next to nothing about Spec2 or Seaside/Teapot. I just know that I need to learn it, and I need to use it to give my tutorial a UI (or two). Newcomers will show up wanting to learn Pharo, and they need to be reassured that they can create nice (enough) UIs without a huge effort. (Not everyone is a command line hacker, and end-users certainly don't want to be.) The more I learn (from you), the more I can be independent, and the more tutorials I could produce -- without a lot of help. I'm willing to do the work, because that will help make me a Pharo "master programmer". (I don't want to be a hack, and I can't really be a trainer if I'm just a hack myself.) I'll pay back the community by helping to attract and advance more developers' skills. I just have to have the more advanced knowledge & skills myself. So, train the (future) trainer, anyone?? -Ted -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Aug. 2, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Class side vs instance side (variables and methods)

by Richard Sargent

On August 2, 2020 10:16:54 AM PDT, tbrunz <wild.ideas(a)gmail.com> wrote: >Thanks, Richard. > >So adding #yourself is mostly needed for cases where you send #add: to >an >OrderedCollection (because that returns the added element instead of >returning the collection as most expect it would)? No. It is used when you don't know what the last message send answers. And, *that* is most of the time, because even when you know the answer today, you don't know the future changes. > >I've been adding it in all cases, which I guess does no harm. That is the correct answer. Add it unless you want the result of the last message send. > >-t > > > >-- >Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Aug. 2, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Class side vs instance side (variables and methods)

by tbrunz

Thanks, Richard. So adding #yourself is mostly needed for cases where you send #add: to an OrderedCollection (because that returns the added element instead of returning the collection as most expect it would)? I've been adding it in all cases, which I guess does no harm. -t -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Aug. 2, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Class side vs instance side (variables and methods)

by Richard Sargent

On August 2, 2020 9:25:32 AM PDT, tbrunz <wild.ideas(a)gmail.com> wrote: >Shouldn't this code > >> So if you implement a #newWhite method in the "class side" of Dog, it >> would be something like this. >> >> Dog class>>newWhite >> "Returns a new white instance of receiver." >> ^self new color: Color white > >be this instead? > >> Dog class>>newWhite >> "Returns a new white instance of receiver." >> ^self new >> color: Color white; >> yourself > >in order to return the new Dog instance? Otherwise it will return the >Dog >class itself (not what you expected? No. It cannot answer the class. It will answer the result of the last message send. That could be the new instance OR the result of sending #white to Color. This latter point is the reason why people generally like to include the #yourself message in the cascade. > >-t > > > >-- >Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Aug. 2, 2020