June 2020 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Few newbie questoins about Pharo/Smalltalk capabilities

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

Forgot to mention the mooc where a version can be found there: http://mooc.pharo.org Might be a good place to start. Cheers, CÃ©drick

June 2, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Few newbie questoins about Pharo/Smalltalk capabilities

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

Hi Gustav and welcome :) > Hello! I don't know if this is a good place to ask this kind of questions, > but I haven't found other places where Smalltalk/Pharo experts hang out. Perfect place here. You can also use direct for more chatty interaction. https://discord.gg/QewZMZa <https://discord.gg/QewZMZa> > > I'm a designer and unfortunately Cool, I personally think we miss designers :) Me Iâm a mechanical engineer at first but then assistant professor that is more into information systems now. There are lots of computer scientists here, mostly. One difficulty was not smalltalk but the whole universe of programming concepts I had to learn... > I know nothing about programming and > computation. Not a problem. Thats might be better too to learn Pharo/Smalltalk in general as people having habits in other classical programming languages have their habits (file bases vs. image based). > I'm trying to change this right now. I'm looking for suitable > technology to learn and so far Pharo/Smalltalk looks very promising. To be > honest, it looks way too good to be true. And that's why I'm here, asking > you guys to disillusion me. I wonât as Iâm literally addicted ;-) The rough edges are we are a small community, hence, even if supportive, you wonât have all libs working fine out of the box. > > I work in a small department of a large company (unfortunately I can't give > you too much details). Part of my job is to design tools that are used by > our team. Proptotyping ? Or doing real ones ? What kind do tools ? > Every time I come up with an idea, we need to get a programmer > from other department and we work together to bring my idea to life. So it > would be perfect if I could do the programming on my own. Yes at least you could prototype stuff. But this takes time too, so youâll have to see if your management allow that. > We are lucky that we are not tied to any particular technology (at least in > our department, for now). Some of our tools were written in Java, some in > Python. > > After watching this video [https://youtu.be/AnrlSqtpOkw?t=550] my > imagination just went crazy. It looks like the Smalltalk system would be > also a perfect tool to give presentations to my superiors. > So to me Smalltalk looks like a holy grail. But again, my perception of it > is probably wrong and I might be better of learning, for instance, > Dart+Flutter. > > So here is a bunch of questions, I hope someone will find time to answer > (and I do apologize in advance, as I'm sure you may find this questions > infantile and annoying): > 1. As a designer I'm an aesthete. Is it possible to change the look of the > windows and the environment to ones liking? Or redesign the whole system to > not use windows at all? How moldable the environment is? Moldable hum funny. Look at glamorous toolkit which is based on Pharo (for now) and a new way of thinking the IDE + more than that. Moldability is a central concept for them. https://gtoolkit.com (look at the video) Also, we often use web interface. There is the great Seaside framework for building complex web apps. I personally prefer marshaling apps based on web services and alike. Zinc is a great internal framework. http://www.seaside.st http://books.pharo.org/booklet-Zinc/ If you want native windows for desktop app, there is a not yet finished but actively developed GTK bindings that allows you to have either windows inside Pharo (SPEC) or natively depending on your OS (with GTK). > 2. How well is Smalltalk/Pharo suited to handle different graphic animation > effects? As a designer I like to use animations to cue users. What about > sound effects? Sounds I donât know but that certainly doable. For animation at least you should look at Roassal3. http://agilevisualization.com https://github.com/ObjectProfile/Roassal3 (come and see on discord channel). > > Also, as a hobby I'd like to try some (3.) generative art and (4.) agent > based modeling. Is Pharo suitable for this kind of things? Cool :) > From what I saw and read it may be good choice for ABM, but some people cry > about Smalltalk being slow. It was slow in the 80âs. :) > So maybe I'd be wiser to learn Processing (for > 3) and NetLogo (for 4) instead. This would be unfortunate as these are two > another technologies to learn. I had to use NetLogo recently and whereas itâs a nice piece of software, I can tell you that I miss my pharo environment once it come to debug and fine tuneâ¦ There is also an ABM in ST, called Cormas that is ported to Pharo (right now). https://github.com/cormas/cormas > > 5. And the last question- as I skimmed through "Blue Book" I found so called > "Pen" class. However, it looks like it's missing in Pharo. Was it removed? > And if so, why? The blue book is about ST80. Pharo is a descendant, not a lot in common, at least in the design- and the librairies. You wonât find it. > > I find the language itself, and especialy its minimalism/simplicity, so > elegant, that I'm thinking of printing the famous "postcard example" and > hanging it on a wall. The whole system, however, is humongous! It looks like > learning (to be albe to do anything interesting and non-trivial) will take > ages. Indeed it can. Step learning curve. Especially to be able to navigate, browse, etcâ¦ but once this step is achieved, this really becomes a joy. > > So, what do you think? Should I invest my time here? Or is there a different > technology that I should consider? You may be quicker productive in other environment, youâll find probably more example to copy-paste adaptâ¦ but if you can grasp the smalltalk philosophy, you may be doomed and addicted for ever and learn a lot during the journey (a real investment for me) ;-). Take some time to explore and do net get frustrated if not all is working out of the box. Look at the book here : http://books.pharo.org I really like all but a particular mention to: - http://books.pharo.org/learning-oop/ - http://books.pharo.org/enterprise-pharo/ hth, and welcome again, CÃ©drick > > Gustav > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

June 2, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Rename package and Iceberg

by Vitor Medina Cruz

Humm, you are right, in git it is correct, but strangely iceberg seems to think otherwise: [image: image.png] [image: image.png] [image: image.png] I will do that so, but this behavior in Iceberg seems an errorto me, or don't? Should I open an issue for this? Regards, Vitor. On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:53 AM Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > If you add the new packages and remove the old ones the history will be > ok. For example: https://github.com/ba-st/Willow/pull/160/files , and > don't forget to update your baseline. > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:48 AM Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> So you mean I should change the package name and add the renamed package >> as a new one into Inceberg? The problem with this is that the history will >> be compromised, as it will see it as exclusion and then inclusion of >> several new classes instead of simply changes in existing ones. >> >> Isn't a way o doing that keeping the correct history of changes? >> >> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:33 AM Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> You need to open the repository view, add your new packages using the >>> Add Package button and remove the old ones with the contextual menu. >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:27 AM Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> How is the correct/safe way of renaming a packages so that it is >>>> reflected in the Iceberg repository? >>>> >>>> I have made that sometimes but got out of sync with Iceberg and it was >>>> very hard to fix: I had to change files by hand, and then load back in the >>>> image, so wanna to avoid that. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Vitor. >>>> >>>

June 2, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Rename package and Iceberg

by Gabriel Cotelli

If you add the new packages and remove the old ones the history will be ok. For example: https://github.com/ba-st/Willow/pull/160/files , and don't forget to update your baseline. On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:48 AM Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> wrote: > So you mean I should change the package name and add the renamed package > as a new one into Inceberg? The problem with this is that the history will > be compromised, as it will see it as exclusion and then inclusion of > several new classes instead of simply changes in existing ones. > > Isn't a way o doing that keeping the correct history of changes? > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:33 AM Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> You need to open the repository view, add your new packages using the Add >> Package button and remove the old ones with the contextual menu. >> >> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:27 AM Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> How is the correct/safe way of renaming a packages so that it is >>> reflected in the Iceberg repository? >>> >>> I have made that sometimes but got out of sync with Iceberg and it was >>> very hard to fix: I had to change files by hand, and then load back in the >>> image, so wanna to avoid that. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Vitor. >>> >>

June 2, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Rename package and Iceberg

by Vitor Medina Cruz

So you mean I should change the package name and add the renamed package as a new one into Inceberg? The problem with this is that the history will be compromised, as it will see it as exclusion and then inclusion of several new classes instead of simply changes in existing ones. Isn't a way o doing that keeping the correct history of changes? On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:33 AM Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > You need to open the repository view, add your new packages using the Add > Package button and remove the old ones with the contextual menu. > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:27 AM Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> How is the correct/safe way of renaming a packages so that it is >> reflected in the Iceberg repository? >> >> I have made that sometimes but got out of sync with Iceberg and it was >> very hard to fix: I had to change files by hand, and then load back in the >> image, so wanna to avoid that. >> >> Regards, >> Vitor. >> >

June 2, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Rename package and Iceberg

by Gabriel Cotelli

You need to open the repository view, add your new packages using the Add Package button and remove the old ones with the contextual menu. On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:27 AM Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > > How is the correct/safe way of renaming a packages so that it is reflected > in the Iceberg repository? > > I have made that sometimes but got out of sync with Iceberg and it was > very hard to fix: I had to change files by hand, and then load back in the > image, so wanna to avoid that. > > Regards, > Vitor. >

June 2, 2020

Rename package and Iceberg

by Vitor Medina Cruz

Hello, How is the correct/safe way of renaming a packages so that it is reflected in the Iceberg repository? I have made that sometimes but got out of sync with Iceberg and it was very hard to fix: I had to change files by hand, and then load back in the image, so wanna to avoid that. Regards, Vitor.

June 2, 2020

Few newbie questoins about Pharo/Smalltalk capabilities

by gustav_m

Hello! I don't know if this is a good place to ask this kind of questions, but I haven't found other places where Smalltalk/Pharo experts hang out. I'm a designer and unfortunately I know nothing about programming and computation. I'm trying to change this right now. I'm looking for suitable technology to learn and so far Pharo/Smalltalk looks very promising. To be honest, it looks way too good to be true. And that's why I'm here, asking you guys to disillusion me. I work in a small department of a large company (unfortunately I can't give you too much details). Part of my job is to design tools that are used by our team. Every time I come up with an idea, we need to get a programmer from other department and we work together to bring my idea to life. So it would be perfect if I could do the programming on my own. We are lucky that we are not tied to any particular technology (at least in our department, for now). Some of our tools were written in Java, some in Python. After watching this video [https://youtu.be/AnrlSqtpOkw?t=550] my imagination just went crazy. It looks like the Smalltalk system would be also a perfect tool to give presentations to my superiors. So to me Smalltalk looks like a holy grail. But again, my perception of it is probably wrong and I might be better of learning, for instance, Dart+Flutter. So here is a bunch of questions, I hope someone will find time to answer (and I do apologize in advance, as I'm sure you may find this questions infantile and annoying): 1. As a designer I'm an aesthete. Is it possible to change the look of the windows and the environment to ones liking? Or redesign the whole system to not use windows at all? How moldable the environment is? 2. How well is Smalltalk/Pharo suited to handle different graphic animation effects? As a designer I like to use animations to cue users. What about sound effects? Also, as a hobby I'd like to try some (3.) generative art and (4.) agent based modeling. Is Pharo suitable for this kind of things? >From what I saw and read it may be good choice for ABM, but some people cry about Smalltalk being slow. So maybe I'd be wiser to learn Processing (for 3) and NetLogo (for 4) instead. This would be unfortunate as these are two another technologies to learn. 5. And the last question- as I skimmed through "Blue Book" I found so called "Pen" class. However, it looks like it's missing in Pharo. Was it removed? And if so, why? I find the language itself, and especialy its minimalism/simplicity, so elegant, that I'm thinking of printing the famous "postcard example" and hanging it on a wall. The whole system, however, is humongous! It looks like learning (to be albe to do anything interesting and non-trivial) will take ages. So, what do you think? Should I invest my time here? Or is there a different technology that I should consider? Gustav -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

June 2, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Automatic code cleaner for Pharo

by Guillermo Polito

Thanks!! > El 1 jun 2020, a las 14:00, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> escribiÃ³: > > Hi everyone! > > Today I released the v1.1.0 of Chanel, a project to automatically clean > Pharo code to make it more readable and efficient. > > https://github.com/jecisc/Chanel > > This project is composed of a list of cleaners. You can choose those you > want and the version of Pharo you code needs to run on (to reject > cleaners transforming code to use methods from recent Pharo versions) > then run them of a list of packages. > > It is advised to check carefully the cleaned code because some cleaners > might introduce bugs in edge cases. I tried to detail them in the > documentation: > > https://github.com/jecisc/Chanel/blob/master/resources/doc/documentation.md > > Find the full changelog of this release here: > https://github.com/jecisc/Chanel/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md > > More cleaners to come in the future :) > > Have a nice day. > > -- > Cyril Ferlicot > https://ferlicot.fr >

June 2, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 9 64 + windows 10

by Guillermo Polito

Hi Vitor, I think some of the slots rewrite code dynamically, thatâs why the difference I think. Iâd say its harmless, so you can ignore the difference or revert it as you did. Iâd let someone more into Spec answer if this is really safe to do or no :) Also, reverting can also be achieved by clicking on the âDiscard allâ button on the right of the packages toolbar: Cheers, Guille > El 1 jun 2020, a las 15:33, Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> escribiÃ³: > > I find out that one can revert changes from the commit screen... So you must click in commit, select what you want to revert, revert it and cancel the commit operation... > > Still no clue why those changes appeared there. > > On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 2:47 PM Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com <mailto:vitormcruz@gmail.com>> wrote: > Hello, > > I tried to download Pharo 9 64bits and load latest repository on it. After loading, Iceberg says I have changes made to pharo (???) > > > <image.png> > > But I changed nothing, I just loaded the pharo 9latest code on it using iceberg. I already tried to recalculate dirty packages. What is happening? How do I revert changes so that my image is the same as the repo? > > Regards, > Vitor. > >

June 2, 2020