May 2020 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Refactor without formatting

by Vitor Medina Cruz

Ok, so should I open the issue or leave it as it is? On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 2:08 PM StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > There is what we would love to have and there is what we have. > It is difficult to conserve the formatting of the original method > especially on extract > or more generally on code transformation. > Now it does not mean that we like it this way. > But given the ratio income/results I think that Pharo is super super good. > > But but > people can help > people can pay for more. > > S. > > On 19 May 2020, at 19:33, Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello, > > When I run a refactoring, Rename Method, for example, the refactoring is > reformatting the code affected. Is it possible to configure Pharo to > refactor without reformatting code? Depending on the refactoring, the > reformat is so intrusive that make it more worth to make the refactoring by > hand. > > Regards, > Vitor > > > -------------------------------------------- > StÃ©phane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org > 03 59 35 87 52 > Assistant: Julie Jonas > FAX 03 59 57 78 50 > TEL 03 59 35 86 16 > S. Ducasse - Inria > 40, avenue Halley, > Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza > Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 > France > >

May 20, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] running Pharo8 in Digitalocean

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

thanks sven :) pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2020/05/20/deployment-tips-from-the-pros/ <http://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2020/05/20/deployment-tips-from-the-pros/> S > On 17 May 2020, at 20:28, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > Hi Sanjay, > > When you do a metacello configuration or baseline install with the command line tools, the image is saved automatically at the end (if the load is successful). > > My current approach is described here > > https://github.com/svenvc/minimal-pharo-server-tools <https://github.com/svenvc/minimal-pharo-server-tools> > > which is a newer version of > > https://github.com/svenvc/pharo-server-tools <https://github.com/svenvc/pharo-server-tools> > > Much of this goes beyond Pharo and requires some Unix/Linux knowledge, but it is all standard stuff. > > Sven -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

May 20, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec2 Pharo8/9; icons

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hello Tomaz > Dear all, > > What would be the best Pharo version to start building a Spec2 GUI for an app - Pharo 9 which is under development but with novelties in Spec2, or Pharo 8? I would go for P9. It may be a bit shaky from time to time but for example you can milestoned your image and if the next one is shaky you wait. We are always developing in bleeding edge so eating our own dog food (and p9 has been nice so far). Just now we got Spec20 0.6 and it contains many improvements. I hope to be able to start to code some mini tutorial (learning myself and writing what Iâm learning). > What's the best (easiest ...) way to import new icons into Smalltalk ui icons? Is there any special bitmap format to be considered? png is better and there is a library to manage icons I do not have the name but you can load icons. But look around. > > Thanks and best wishes, > Tomaz -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

May 20, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] New user

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> On 20 May 2020, at 18:59, G B <g_patrickb(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > From: G B <g_patrickb(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] New user > Date: 20 May 2020 at 18:59:15 CEST > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > > > Thank you all for your comments. I'm using Pharo on Windows and I uninstalled it completely and reinstalled, so I will use your suggestions. > > Another question, if I may, is what order of books should I use? I purchased "Pharo 5 by Example" (because it was newer than "Pharo by Example," "Learning Object-Oriented Programming, Design, and TDD with Pharo," "Deep Into Pharo" (which I know would be after PBE), and "Enterprise Pharo" (which would probably be after Deep into Pharo). You mentioned that you know how to program so in a couple of days you should get up to speed. Our data is that 3rd students takes two weeks and I know people that did the mooc in speed run in two days. I would follow the mooc. You will get much faster and there is an image 32 that is in sync with the mooc version. The mooc is of excellent quality because we put 10 years of teaching experience in it. We are working on a mooc version with Pharo by Example 80. We are about to release 70 new videos of scenarios around Pharo 80. Just verifying the titles of such slides and videos take time. Then you can read in diagonal Pharo by Example (I hope to get some time to update chapter 3 this week-end). After I would read in diagonal some chapters there and there and ask questions. I think that in a couple of days you should get up to start developing a small app. You do not need to know everything. In PBE8 there are two new chapters on Pharo and git. To get started. Deep into Pharo is not really needed. This is more extra knowledge and Iâm currently updating some chapters for P8. I extracted the Zinc HTTP chapters, but you can develop seaside without caring about http. To get started you need to know how to define a class and a method. S.

May 20, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] New user

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Https does not requires ssh keys. S. > On 20 May 2020, at 06:02, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > > Something I'm not quite sure on, is whether using > repository: 'github://....'rather than a HTTPS connection requires SSH keys to set up. > Presuming so, you should first ensure you SSH is working from the command lineper...https://help.github.com/en/github/authenticating-to-github/testin… <https://help.github.com/en/github/authenticating-to-github/testing-your-ssh…> think a facility to do a similar user-check from within Pharo would be extremely useful.) > > Next, if you are on Windows, the added complexity is that "Use Custom Keys" must be enabled.(And it would be useful if that was the default for Windows. I trip over it _every_ time I start a new image.) > <image.png> > > cheers -ben > > > On Wed, 20 May 2020 at 06:38, G B via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>> wrote: > I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk, but I think I'm done before I ever started. My biggest interest was in Seaside, yet trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub fails: > > Metacello new > baseline:'Seaside3'; > repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository'; > load > > Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0. Some are only available for 4.0. Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has ha me spend time trying to get something going to no avail. > > I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do some C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at every turn with Pharo. > > -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

May 20, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] New user

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > > Hello, > > I feel your pain. > Updated, consistent and centralized documentation is not strong in Pharo. I cannot let you say that sorry :) We have a mooc with more than 100 videos We have books that are maintained. This is not by accident or fun that I spent time updating Pharo by Example and creating a collection of booklets. We regularly update them. We have lectures. We have a single wiki with documentation. > Things are changing fast and docs don't catch up, also there is an effort to move projects to github, so usually updated stuff are there. I never use Catalog anymore because often things goes wrong. Books are only good to explain major concepts that are less likely to change over time, in order to getting started I would recommend: > > 1- Seaside github project: https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside <https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside>. Their readme and wiki page seems to be very good and updated, I just evaluated this on playground and it worked as expected: > > Metacello new > baseline:'Seaside3'; > repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:v3.4.1/repository'; > load > > I avoid using master tag as it is usually development branch or frequently has some commit that breaks everything up and and what I want is something reliable, so I always use version tags (when the projects provides one). > > After that, I think using the wiki (https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside/wiki <https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside/wiki>) or seaside web book (http://book.seaside.st/book <http://book.seaside.st/book>) can get you through all you need to know. > > 2- Pharo open documentation is a much better place to be getting started with Pharo: https://github.com/pharo-open-documentation/pharo-wiki <https://github.com/pharo-open-documentation/pharo-wiki> > > 3- Then you can go and read Pharo by Example and Deep in Pharo books in order to get more information after you can get started, if you are interest, but by now you must be able to do most basic stuff with the system.. > > Hope that helps you getting by and fuel you interest in Smalltalk and Pharo. > > Regars, > Vitor > > > > On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:38 PM G B via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>> wrote: > I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk, but I think I'm done before I ever started. My biggest interest was in Seaside, yet trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub fails: > > Metacello new > baseline:'Seaside3'; > repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository'; > load > > Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0. Some are only available for 4.0. Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has ha me spend time trying to get something going to no avail. > > I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do some C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at every turn with Pharo. > > -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

May 20, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Refactor without formatting

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

There is what we would love to have and there is what we have. It is difficult to conserve the formatting of the original method especially on extract or more generally on code transformation. Now it does not mean that we like it this way. But given the ratio income/results I think that Pharo is super super good. But but people can help people can pay for more. S. > On 19 May 2020, at 19:33, Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello, > > When I run a refactoring, Rename Method, for example, the refactoring is reformatting the code affected. Is it possible to configure Pharo to refactor without reformatting code? Depending on the refactoring, the reformat is so intrusive that make it more worth to make the refactoring by hand. > > Regards, > Vitor -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

May 20, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Refactor without formatting

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > Yeah, that's why I think it would be great if the RB engine could be extended with a(n optional) hook to call some "local/personal" formatter instead of reformatting immediately. This way we could at least make sure that the reformatting happens according to our taste and in line with whatever we use to format our code. Preserving the old formatting is likely to not be a good idea at least for some refactorings lie extract method, in addition to possibly being difficult. > > The plus of such a plugin/hook approach is that this could probably be maintainable cross-platform. Every dialect could plug their formatter without changing RBs internals. I don't know if there still exists some "common code base" of RB at all, so maybe this is just stupid blah blah anywaysâ¦ > But this is the case. You can pass to the pharo formatter a context and the setting browser shows you the formatting options. > > Joachim > > > > > > > > > >> >>> >>> cheers -ben >>> >>> On Wed, 20 May 2020 at 01:34, Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com <mailto:vitormcruz@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> When I run a refactoring, Rename Method, for example, the refactoring is reformatting the code affected. Is it possible to configure Pharo to refactor without reformatting code? Depending on the refactoring, the reformat is so intrusive that make it more worth to make the refactoring by hand. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Vitor >> > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de <mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de> > Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de <http://www.objektfabrik.de/> > D-71640 Ludwigsburg http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com <http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com/> > Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1 > > > -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

May 20, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] New user

by G B

Thank you all for your comments.Â I'm using Pharo on Windows and I uninstalled it completely and reinstalled, so I will use your suggestions. Another question, if I may, is what order of books should I use?Â I purchased "Pharo 5 by Example" (because it was newer than "Pharo by Example," "Learning Object-Oriented Programming, Design, and TDD with Pharo," "Deep Into Pharo" (which I know would be after PBE), and "Enterprise Pharo" (which would probably be after Deep into Pharo). Thank you. On Wednesday, May 20, 2020, 6:19:25 AM CDT, Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> wrote: Something I'm not quite sure on, is whether using Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â repository: 'github://....'rather than a HTTPS connection requires SSH keys to set up. There is no need of SSH keys setup. On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 2:02 AM Vince Refiti <vince.refiti(a)trapezegroup.com.au> wrote: Hi Â I prefer to clone every repo I use locally. Â I just did this with Seaside and then used Iceberg to load it into a new Pharo8 image and it worked. Â Vince Â From: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org>On Behalf Of Vitor Medina Cruz Sent: Wednesday, 20 May 2020 12:27 PM To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] New user Â EXTERNAL:Â Do not click links or open attachments if you do not recognize the sender. Â Hello, Â I feel your pain. Â Updated, consistent and centralized documentation is not strong in Pharo. Things are changing fast and docs don't catch up, also there is an effort to move projects to github, so usually updated stuff are there. I never use Catalog anymore because often things goes wrong. Books are only good to explain major concepts that are less likely to change over time, in order to getting started I would recommend: Â 1- Seaside github project: https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside. Their readme and wiki page seems to be very good and updated, I just evaluated this on playground and it worked as expected: Â Metacello new Â baseline:'Seaside3'; Â repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:v3.4.1/repository'; Â load Â I avoid using master tag as it is usually development branch or frequently has some commit that breaks everything up and and what I want is something reliable, so I always use version tags (when the projects provides one). Â After that, I think using the wiki (https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside/wiki) or seaside web book (http://book.seaside.st/book) can get you through all you need to know. Â 2- Pharo open documentation is a much better place to be getting started with Pharo:https://github.com/pharo-open-documentation/pharo-wiki Â 3- Then you can go and read Pharo by Example and Deep in Pharo books in order to get more information after you can get started, if you are interest, but by now you must be able to do most basic stuff with the system.. Â Hope that helps you getting by and fuel you interest in Smalltalk and Pharo. Â Regars, Vitor Â Â Â On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:38 PM G B via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk, but I think I'm done before I ever started.Â My biggest interest was in Seaside, yet trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub fails: Â Metacellonew baseline:'Seaside3'; repository:'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository'; load Â Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0.Â Some are only available for 4.0.Â Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has ha me spend time trying to get something going to no avail. Â I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do some C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at every turn with Pharo. Â Â

May 20, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] New user

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi patrick Welcome. I do not use Seaside recently but I know that many many people. There is a online channel about seasiders in the Pharo discord channel. May be you should post there to get a fast answer. Did you look at the mooc? If you need some help with the setup we can have a screen sharing session. S. > On 20 May 2020, at 00:37, G B <g_patrickb(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > From: G B <g_patrickb(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: New user > Date: 20 May 2020 at 00:37:12 CEST > To: Any Question About Pharo Is Welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > > > I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk, but I think I'm done before I ever started. My biggest interest was in Seaside, yet trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub fails: > > Metacello new > baseline:'Seaside3'; > repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository'; > load > > Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0. Some are only available for 4.0. Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has ha me spend time trying to get something going to no avail. > > I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do some C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at every turn with Pharo. > > > > -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

May 20, 2020