April 2020 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Minimality

by Hilaire

As a matter of fact it is interesting to compare the number of classes in the last releases of the descendants of Smalltalk 80: * Cuis5 (480 classes), * Squeak 5.2 (2713 classes) * Pharo8 (*9084 *classes) I don't think the last Pharo vision statement: /A system with robust abstractions that a single person can understand./ is in anyway realistic. Now, will Pharo9 reach the sky with *10'000* classes? Very likely if you observe the graph below: Hilaire Le 13/04/2020 Ã 14:30, CÃ©drick BÃ©ler a Ã©critÂ : > Just a reflexion that Iâd like to share here. > When Hilaire talks about complexity. I have to agree too, even if I > like the progress under the hood, and explored spaces like GToolkit. > -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

April 16, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Minimality

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Which is always available in any Pharo image as Help > Pharo Zen > On 16 Apr 2020, at 12:04, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > > Hi CÃ©drick, > > Remember the Pharo vision back in 2005. > > Pharo Zen > Our values and convictions are condensed in this simple list. > Easy to understand, easy to learn from, easy to change. > Objects all the way down. > Examples to learn from. > Fully dynamic and malleable. > Beauty in the code, beauty in the comments. > Simplicity is the ultimate elegance. > Better a set of small polymorphic classes than a large ugly one. > Classes structure our vocabulary. > Messages are our vocabulary. > Polymorphism is our esperanto. > Abstraction and composition are our friends. > Tests are important but can be changed. > Explicit is better than implicit. > Magic only at the right place. > One step at a time. > There is no unimportant fix. > Learning from mistakes. > Perfection can kill movement. > Quality is a emerging property. > Simple processes to support progress. > Communication is key. > A system with robust abstractions that a single person can understand. > > > Le 13/04/2020 Ã 14:30, CÃ©drick BÃ©ler a Ã©crit : >> Just a reflexion that Iâd like to share here. >> When Hilaire talks about complexity. I have to agree too, even if I like the progress under the hood, and explored spaces like GToolkit. >> >> But how to change such legacy beast, the pharo image ? Potential is huge but resistance is also tough for so few peopleâ¦ Just imagining changing method protocols seems so complex at the end ! >> >> Instead, Iâd start with minimal images, bootstrapped ones. A system I would love to understand every bits. Iâm pretty sure this is what lots of us have in mind and the progress in bootstrap has been teasing us ;-) >> > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu

April 16, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Minimality

by Hilaire

Hi CÃ©drick, Remember the Pharo vision back in 2005. Pharo Zen Our values and convictions are condensed in this simple list. Easy to understand, easy to learn from, easy to change. Objects all the way down. Examples to learn from. Fully dynamic and malleable. Beauty in the code, beauty in the comments. Simplicity is the ultimate elegance. Better a set of small polymorphic classes than a large ugly one. Classes structure our vocabulary. Messages are our vocabulary. Polymorphism is our esperanto. Abstraction and composition are our friends. Tests are important but can be changed. Explicit is better than implicit. Magic only at the right place. One step at a time. There is no unimportant fix. Learning from mistakes. Perfection can kill movement. Quality is a emerging property. Simple processes to support progress. Communication is key. A system with robust abstractions that a single person can understand. Le 13/04/2020 Ã 14:30, CÃ©drick BÃ©ler a Ã©critÂ : > Just a reflexion that Iâd like to share here. > When Hilaire talks about complexity. I have to agree too, even if I > like the progress under the hood, and explored spaces like GToolkit. > > But how to change such legacy beast, the pharo image Â ? Potential is > huge but resistance is also tough for so few peopleâ¦ Just imagining > changing method protocols seems so complex at the end ! > > Instead, Iâd start with minimal images, bootstrapped ones. A system I > would love to understand every bits. Iâm pretty sure this is what lots > of us have in mind and the progress in bootstrap has been teasing us ;-) > -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

April 16, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Internet connection active

by Serge Stinckwich

Is it related to the issue we have from time to time when we load software with Metacello from countries where bandwidth is limited. Regards, On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 4:17 AM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Hi, > > This is a known problem: the standard NetNameResolver (which depends on > some primitives) hangs when your network connection is bad (or in a dubious > state). > > This is very annoying, if your test is 'do I have an internet connection'. > > This is the reason why I played with https://github.com/svenvc/NeoDNS > doing a pure Pharo DNS client (based on datagrams) - this one does never > hang. But doing a full DNS client is hard. BTW, this code base also > contains a 'do I have an internet connection' test. > > Sven > > > On 10 Apr 2020, at 13:15, dario.trussardi65 <dario.trussardi65(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Ciao, > > > > i have a Pharo 7.0.3 image run on Ubuntu system. > > > > Sometime the internet connection go down. > > > > In this status when i do the: > > > > NetNameResolver addressForName: 'www.esug.org' timeout: > 1 > > > > the system is busy for 20 seconds ( for any request ). > > > > The timeout: 1 is not considered. > > > > Question: how i can test if the internet connection is up before > submit any NetNameResolver request ? > > > > Googling in VisualBasic i found the ActiveConnection > > > > It return true if internet connection is active. > > > > Equivalent in Pharo - Gemstone ? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Dario > > > -- Serge Stinckwic âhâ https://twitter.com/SergeStinckwich â

April 16, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Big thanks to Loic and Anne

by Serge Stinckwich

Yes ðð Regards On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 10:45 PM Alexandre Bergel via Pharo-users < pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > Hello > > I would like to publicly send a big clap to Loic Lagadec and Anne Etien > for their remarkable work on getting a special issue for the IWST > proceedings. This special issue, in the Science of Computer Programming > journal, has a real and tangible impact on the future of our students and > young professors. > > Loic, Anne, you are making the world a better place. > > Thank you > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > -- Serge Stinckwic âhâ https://twitter.com/SergeStinckwich â

April 16, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Thinking aloud about project at hand

by Cameron Sanders

If you use Quuve, local data on Pharo is stored in Fuel files. There are tools to export these to SIXX format in the web-app Admin tools - that's how we migrated data back and forth between Gemstone and Pharo. The admin tools allow exporting parts or full, DB, incremental import or replacement; as well, one can keep around deleted records. Important thing to remember is that Fuel stores the object graph, so be clear about cross-DB access by reference. Again, the warning: full app is a serious app with levels of abstraction. -cam On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 6:42 PM Cameron Sanders <camsanders(a)aol.com> wrote: > Yes, See the overview video at youtube ( > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sraCv1VwJzQ&t=233s) It has a lot of > support tools to grab time-series data from FRED or World Bank, even if you > don't want to use the full web app. The framework for multi-user handles > DB's and is lightweight in practice. If you think you will go web, to > gemstone, or multi-users, there are advantages. > > To use full app, the warnings are: > > 1. uses HighCharts for display, which you would need a developer > license for - i guess, and I don't know configuration mess as Quuve last > ran on Pharo 6.x > 2. there is a little directory structure with a few start-up files you > need to copy into place (under your root directory) > 3. Many powerful financial rules were made easiest to use via this > full app, as there are "pattern methods" that expand (creating concrete > methods) to allow access to FRED and WorldBank as if each series were coded > as a method > > > To simply use some of the toolkit from the "FA" package, which are general > "functional analyst" tools, not involving GUI stuff, nor requiring much app > framework, you can do the following to get CME crude prices front-month > (CL1). Looks like they provide full FRED data access... but ... I know we > provided tools to go directly to FRED and WorldBank too - i'd have to > relearn how! (Been a few years.) > > |q | > q := *FaQuandlDownloader* new "#initialize method has an > authorizationToken based on Debri's old account. When using the full > application, the runtime uses specs for these to be created, and those > specs are stored in DB's, at app-level, site-level, or user-level, allowing > users to have extended subscriptions (from base app). We no longer have > subscriptions, only a base account - and w*e get in trouble if you draw > too much data like this*. *Please create your own account and change > #initialize method.* " > dataSourceSpec: 'SCF/'; > series: 'CL1' for: 'CME' withPeriodSuffix: 'FN'; > yourself. > q fetch. > q answerAsTable "returns FaTableAccess which allows string-indexed lookups > or numbered index" > > ... my memory is you can extract that data as a FaDatedSeries too... > mmm... i'd have to look. > > Good luck, let me know if you have questions. > -cam > > -- > last loading I did went something like this... > Metacello new > configuration: 'Seaside3'; > repository: ' > http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Seaside/MetacelloConfigurations/main'; > version: '3.2.4'; > load: #('Core' 'Zinc-Seaside' 'Javascript' 'JQuery' 'JSON' 'Email'); > lock. > > > Gofer it > url: 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Debris/Quuve/main' > username: monticelloUsername > password: monticelloPassword; > package: 'ConfigurationOfQuuve'; > load. > > > Metacello new > configuration: 'Quuve'; > smalltalkhubUser: 'Debris' project: 'Quuve'; > version: '1.9'; > onLock: [ :ex | ex honor ]; > load: #('Core' 'DPOFX' 'DebrisREST'). > --- > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 4:57 AM Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: > >> Wasnât there a recent financial app in Pharo that was made open source... >> there might be many ideas in it, and possibly a starting point. >> >> Itâs in the success pages of pharo: Quuve, there are posts from Mariano >> about what tech they used too >> >> Tim >> >> > On 10 Apr 2020, at 09:13, "tesonep(a)gmail.com" <tesonep(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > ï»¿Hi Tomaz, >> > >> > From the comments about the requirements you do I suggest: >> > >> > - For data storage, my recommendation goes depending on two factors: >> > 1)Installation complexity, 2) volume of data. These are two variables >> > that will be against one and the other. I will recommend to use >> > MongoDB + Voyage, that goes very well. It grows excellent with the >> > amount of data, it has really cool integration with Pharo and Voyage >> > is an excellent mapping tool; also it is a mature solution and it has >> > a lot of support for back-up schemes and solutions. Using MongoDB >> > complicates the installation process, so if you have the idea of a >> > easy installable application maybe SQLlite is a good alternative. >> > >> > - I think using Spec2 + GTK + Roassal3 + Polymath is a good idea. >> > Check that Spec2 and Roassal3 are still under heavy development. They >> > are getting much better, but of course, it will take some time to >> > stabilize; but both of them are progressing very fast and they are >> > already quite stable. >> > >> > - For developing DSL and interactive programming for non-programmers >> > users, Pharo is ideal. It presents a lot of tools to easily develop >> > DSL and the UI to make them work excellent. The idea of live >> > manipulation of objects and inspection of all the instances can be >> > easily added to a DSL. >> > >> > Thanks for your attention! >> > >> >> On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 9:13 PM TomaÅ¾ Turk <tomaz.turk(a)ef.uni-lj.si> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear all, >> >> >> >> I'm thinking about implementing a software solution in Pharo (as one >> of the candidate environments), it's a project that I'm dealing with >> professionally. The goal is to develop a financial planning/simulation >> application on the country level, which is at present developed as a set of >> interrelated Excel spreadsheets. The requirement is that the solution >> should be more "manageable", resilient and straightforward than Excel >> permits, that it should present a workflow to the user - i.e. , that the >> tasks the user should do are suggested through the GUI. >> >> >> >> The majority of the data is in a form of a time series (for instance: >> GDP for a series of years). There are many variables in the model which >> shoud be calculated from other variables, year by year. There are also >> lagged variables (the value for the current year depends from the value of >> previous year), and running averages. There are also some variables which >> are not time series (parameters). As a part of GUI, there is a need to >> present the results as diagrams, too (scatterplots, line charts), otherwise >> tables are the output. >> >> >> >> I found Pharo to be a very elegant language and environment, with >> version 8.0 it became pretty stable, however I don't have any experiences >> in building software solutions of this type in Smalltalk. In other words, >> I'd like to be more confident in setting the architecture, both in the >> sense of the model content (variables interrelation) and the architecture >> of classes. Besides, for the calculated variables I'd like to have a >> relatively simple syntax to define them (like 'GDPpC <- GDP / Population'). >> >> >> >> My thoughts and questions: >> >> - for easier maintenance I'd like to separate the data from the code - >> so the question is what would be the best way to implement persistence >> (another Pharo image - with what?, some relational database, XML/JSON, >> flat files ..) >> >> - I wonder what would be the best "architecture" of classes - so, we >> have a lot of aggregate variables like GDP and population, which can be >> grouped at least according to the stage in the planning workflow. There are >> also resulting (calculated) variables (e.g. GDP per capita). On the other >> hand, since this is a planning software, it's a kind of simulation, where >> we have a "data warehouse", experiments and results >> >> - As a core packages I would use Spec2, Roassal, and PolyMath. >> >> >> >> I'm just thinking aloud, and would greatly appreciate any thoughts >> from experienced Pharoers :-) >> >> >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Tomaz >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Pablo Tesone. >> > tesonep(a)gmail.com >> > >> >> >>

April 15, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Thinking aloud about project at hand

by Cameron Sanders

Yes, See the overview video at youtube ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sraCv1VwJzQ&t=233s) It has a lot of support tools to grab time-series data from FRED or World Bank, even if you don't want to use the full web app. The framework for multi-user handles DB's and is lightweight in practice. If you think you will go web, to gemstone, or multi-users, there are advantages. To use full app, the warnings are: 1. uses HighCharts for display, which you would need a developer license for - i guess, and I don't know configuration mess as Quuve last ran on Pharo 6.x 2. there is a little directory structure with a few start-up files you need to copy into place (under your root directory) 3. Many powerful financial rules were made easiest to use via this full app, as there are "pattern methods" that expand (creating concrete methods) to allow access to FRED and WorldBank as if each series were coded as a method To simply use some of the toolkit from the "FA" package, which are general "functional analyst" tools, not involving GUI stuff, nor requiring much app framework, you can do the following to get CME crude prices front-month (CL1). Looks like they provide full FRED data access... but ... I know we provided tools to go directly to FRED and WorldBank too - i'd have to relearn how! (Been a few years.) |q | q := *FaQuandlDownloader* new "#initialize method has an authorizationToken based on Debri's old account. When using the full application, the runtime uses specs for these to be created, and those specs are stored in DB's, at app-level, site-level, or user-level, allowing users to have extended subscriptions (from base app). We no longer have subscriptions, only a base account - and w*e get in trouble if you draw too much data like this*. *Please create your own account and change #initialize method.* " dataSourceSpec: 'SCF/'; series: 'CL1' for: 'CME' withPeriodSuffix: 'FN'; yourself. q fetch. q answerAsTable "returns FaTableAccess which allows string-indexed lookups or numbered index" ... my memory is you can extract that data as a FaDatedSeries too... mmm... i'd have to look. Good luck, let me know if you have questions. -cam -- last loading I did went something like this... Metacello new configuration: 'Seaside3'; repository: ' http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Seaside/MetacelloConfigurations/main'; version: '3.2.4'; load: #('Core' 'Zinc-Seaside' 'Javascript' 'JQuery' 'JSON' 'Email'); lock. Gofer it url: 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Debris/Quuve/main' username: monticelloUsername password: monticelloPassword; package: 'ConfigurationOfQuuve'; load. Metacello new configuration: 'Quuve'; smalltalkhubUser: 'Debris' project: 'Quuve'; version: '1.9'; onLock: [ :ex | ex honor ]; load: #('Core' 'DPOFX' 'DebrisREST'). --- On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 4:57 AM Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: > Wasnât there a recent financial app in Pharo that was made open source... > there might be many ideas in it, and possibly a starting point. > > Itâs in the success pages of pharo: Quuve, there are posts from Mariano > about what tech they used too > > Tim > > > On 10 Apr 2020, at 09:13, "tesonep(a)gmail.com" <tesonep(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > ï»¿Hi Tomaz, > > > > From the comments about the requirements you do I suggest: > > > > - For data storage, my recommendation goes depending on two factors: > > 1)Installation complexity, 2) volume of data. These are two variables > > that will be against one and the other. I will recommend to use > > MongoDB + Voyage, that goes very well. It grows excellent with the > > amount of data, it has really cool integration with Pharo and Voyage > > is an excellent mapping tool; also it is a mature solution and it has > > a lot of support for back-up schemes and solutions. Using MongoDB > > complicates the installation process, so if you have the idea of a > > easy installable application maybe SQLlite is a good alternative. > > > > - I think using Spec2 + GTK + Roassal3 + Polymath is a good idea. > > Check that Spec2 and Roassal3 are still under heavy development. They > > are getting much better, but of course, it will take some time to > > stabilize; but both of them are progressing very fast and they are > > already quite stable. > > > > - For developing DSL and interactive programming for non-programmers > > users, Pharo is ideal. It presents a lot of tools to easily develop > > DSL and the UI to make them work excellent. The idea of live > > manipulation of objects and inspection of all the instances can be > > easily added to a DSL. > > > > Thanks for your attention! > > > >> On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 9:13 PM TomaÅ¾ Turk <tomaz.turk(a)ef.uni-lj.si> > wrote: > >> > >> Dear all, > >> > >> I'm thinking about implementing a software solution in Pharo (as one of > the candidate environments), it's a project that I'm dealing with > professionally. The goal is to develop a financial planning/simulation > application on the country level, which is at present developed as a set of > interrelated Excel spreadsheets. The requirement is that the solution > should be more "manageable", resilient and straightforward than Excel > permits, that it should present a workflow to the user - i.e. , that the > tasks the user should do are suggested through the GUI. > >> > >> The majority of the data is in a form of a time series (for instance: > GDP for a series of years). There are many variables in the model which > shoud be calculated from other variables, year by year. There are also > lagged variables (the value for the current year depends from the value of > previous year), and running averages. There are also some variables which > are not time series (parameters). As a part of GUI, there is a need to > present the results as diagrams, too (scatterplots, line charts), otherwise > tables are the output. > >> > >> I found Pharo to be a very elegant language and environment, with > version 8.0 it became pretty stable, however I don't have any experiences > in building software solutions of this type in Smalltalk. In other words, > I'd like to be more confident in setting the architecture, both in the > sense of the model content (variables interrelation) and the architecture > of classes. Besides, for the calculated variables I'd like to have a > relatively simple syntax to define them (like 'GDPpC <- GDP / Population'). > >> > >> My thoughts and questions: > >> - for easier maintenance I'd like to separate the data from the code - > so the question is what would be the best way to implement persistence > (another Pharo image - with what?, some relational database, XML/JSON, > flat files ..) > >> - I wonder what would be the best "architecture" of classes - so, we > have a lot of aggregate variables like GDP and population, which can be > grouped at least according to the stage in the planning workflow. There are > also resulting (calculated) variables (e.g. GDP per capita). On the other > hand, since this is a planning software, it's a kind of simulation, where > we have a "data warehouse", experiments and results > >> - As a core packages I would use Spec2, Roassal, and PolyMath. > >> > >> I'm just thinking aloud, and would greatly appreciate any thoughts from > experienced Pharoers :-) > >> > >> Best wishes, > >> Tomaz > > > > > > > > -- > > Pablo Tesone. > > tesonep(a)gmail.com > > > > >

April 15, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Internet connection active

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi, This is a known problem: the standard NetNameResolver (which depends on some primitives) hangs when your network connection is bad (or in a dubious state). This is very annoying, if your test is 'do I have an internet connection'. This is the reason why I played with https://github.com/svenvc/NeoDNS doing a pure Pharo DNS client (based on datagrams) - this one does never hang. But doing a full DNS client is hard. BTW, this code base also contains a 'do I have an internet connection' test. Sven > On 10 Apr 2020, at 13:15, dario.trussardi65 <dario.trussardi65(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Ciao, > > i have a Pharo 7.0.3 image run on Ubuntu system. > > Sometime the internet connection go down. > > In this status when i do the: > > NetNameResolver addressForName: 'www.esug.org' timeout: 1 > > the system is busy for 20 seconds ( for any request ). > > The timeout: 1 is not considered. > > Question: how i can test if the internet connection is up before submit any NetNameResolver request ? > > Googling in VisualBasic i found the ActiveConnection > > It return true if internet connection is active. > > Equivalent in Pharo - Gemstone ? > > Thanks, > > Dario

April 15, 2020

Big thanks to Loic and Anne

by Alexandre Bergel

Hello I would like to publicly send a big clap to Loic Lagadec and Anne Etien for their remarkable work on getting a special issue for the IWST proceedings. This special issue, in the Science of Computer Programming journal, has a real and tangible impact on the future of our students and young professors. Loic, Anne, you are making the world a better place. Thank you Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

April 15, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] [Esug-list] looking for input for a lecture on TDD and XtremeTDD

by Stephan Eggermont

Hi Stef, Iâve done some workshops and screencasts. In the workshops (oops, already a few years ago) I used a morph that was moving on the screen to emphasize the liveness. The BabyMock2 work by Attila Magyar is also great for that. It also is good to show the difference between Chicago and London style TDD, and connect to BDD. In Smalltalk, that is more represented by the exploratory modeling I was introduced to by Rob Vens. https://www.reflektis.nl/blog/exploratory-modelling-explained/ For a lecture TDD as if you meant is is a good starting point: https://cumulative-hypotheses.org/2011/08/30/tdd-as-if-you-meant-it/ GToolkit of course provides some nice example-driven development, that combines well with literate programming In my latest screencasts I ran into the following issues: - restarting a test does not make it green after going through it if it needed a fix - canât step into simple accessors (and other optimized code?) - in addition to create, need to be able to create/change setUp/initialize/shutDown - a refactoring âturn fake into classâ is missing where instVar := self and there are methods categorized as âfaking instVarâ https://vimeo.com/329317634 https://vimeo.com/329368348 Stephan Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone > Op 14 apr. 2020 om 14:36 heeft StÃ©phane Ducasse <Stephane.Ducasse(a)inria.fr> het volgende geschreven: > > ï»¿Hello > > I would like to build a lecture around TDD and XtremeTDD (coding in the debugger). > Iâm looking around to see if someone already did such a lecture. > > S. > -------------------------------------------- > StÃ©phane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org > 03 59 35 87 52 > Assistant: Julie Jonas > FAX 03 59 57 78 50 > TEL 03 59 35 86 16 > S. Ducasse - Inria > 40, avenue Halley, > Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza > Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 > France > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

April 15, 2020