March 2020 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Do we have a simple markdown parser?

by Tim Mackinnon

Hi guys - do we have a simple markdown parser that is reasonably up to date? I did a quick GitHub scan and a few popped out, but I wasnât convinced I had found one the âeveryoneâ uses (albeit, everyone might be a small sample). Ideally I donât want to get sucked into writing another one (a project for a future time). Tim

March 24, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] JRMPC Poll

by Tim Mackinnon

Or we teach people to fishâ¦? Whatâs the point of duplicating everything thatâs already in the image anyway - we just need to be cleverer or ensure that people know to look there and have the right onboarding experience to do that? Otherwise its just another thing that gets out of date very rapidly and we already have enough problems with that. Iâd be interested in what intro material Richard gave the students to start with (after all - he has quite a few tutorials of his own, some of which I had followed - but I suspect they are out of date now themselves). When you launch pharo there is the helpful welcome screen - did the studentâs actually use it and follow what it says? And did we see any of them in this forum (or was that against the rules?) Tim > On 24 Mar 2020, at 17:28, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > > Pharo has some good documentation, but its more lesson-based than a library reference. > Those of us familiar with Pharo know the tricks to use the system itself as that reference, but I'd imagine this is an unfamiliar workflow for newcomers. > > I have seen before a class library reference generated from the image, but I couldn't put my hands on it right now. > @all, is it still being generated?. This might provide newcomers something more familiar to work with. > > cheers -ben > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:00, Richard Kenneth Eng <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com <mailto:horrido.hobbies@gmail.com>> wrote: > https://jrmpc.ca/2020/03/20/what-makes-learning-smalltalk-challenging/ <https://jrmpc.ca/2020/03/20/what-makes-learning-smalltalk-challenging/> > > FWIW, 95% of respondents pointed to the lack of reference documentation for the class library as the major obstacle to learning Smalltalk/Pharo. > > Richard

March 24, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] JRMPC Poll

by Ben Coman

Pharo has some good documentation, but its more lesson-based than a library reference. Those of us familiar with Pharo know the tricks to use the system itself as that reference, but I'd imagine this is an unfamiliar workflow for newcomers. I have seen before a class library reference generated from the image, but I couldn't put my hands on it right now. @all, is it still being generated?. This might provide newcomers something more familiar to work with. cheers -ben On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:00, Richard Kenneth Eng <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > https://jrmpc.ca/2020/03/20/what-makes-learning-smalltalk-challenging/ > > FWIW, 95% of respondents pointed to the lack of reference documentation > for the class library as the major obstacle to learning Smalltalk/Pharo. > > Richard >

March 24, 2020

[ANN] Next Pharo Sprint: March 27

by Marcus Denker

We will organize a Pharo sprint / Moose dojo March 27 Goals of this sprint: - Fix issues from tracker https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues This is a Remote Sprint, it happens on Discord. http://pharo.org/contribute-events We have added a Board to coordinate the work: https://github.com/orgs/pharo-project/projects/9 A list of all Pharo Event of the year an be found here: https://association.pharo.org/events

March 24, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo #sum vs #sumNumbers and the consequence of #average

by Tim Mackinnon

Thanks for the git issue - and sadly this goes back a long way :( Iâve added my example to the sad historyâ¦ is there anyone that can rule on this? > On 23 Mar 2020, at 21:23, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/2225 > >> On 23 Mar 2020, at 17:14, Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: >> >> Iâm always impressed with the quality of answers that come out of these discussions - inevitably Iâm reminded that dispatching off the right parties is ultimately where the power lies (when you cheat - it always seems to end up with a gotcha). >> >> Thanks guys. >> >> Tim >> >>> On 23 Mar 2020, at 15:15, James Foster <Smalltalk(a)JGFoster.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Mar 23, 2020, at 8:14 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>> >>>> Both are excellent suggestions. >>>> >>>> We have to think a bit about the consequences. >>>> >>>> Still, both would not solve the problem of what to return when the collection is empty. >>> >>> Zero? >>> >>>> >>>>> On 23 Mar 2020, at 15:47, Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen(a)fastmail.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Am 23.03.20 um 14:45 schrieb James Foster: >>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2020, at 6:06 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What you found out now is that the clever trick used to avoid picking an additive identity (picking an element, counting it twice and then subtracting it) leads to a loss of precision when floating point numbers are involved. This is an important issue. >>>>>> If this approach is to be preserved, then each class should have an additive identity so instead of adding and subtracting an object, we let the object tell us its zero. >>>>> >>>>> Or define a singleton class "Zero" with a + method that returns the other operand, and use that Zero object for the additive identity. >>>>> >>>>> Konrad. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

March 23, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo #sum vs #sumNumbers and the consequence of #average

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/2225 > On 23 Mar 2020, at 17:14, Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: > > Iâm always impressed with the quality of answers that come out of these discussions - inevitably Iâm reminded that dispatching off the right parties is ultimately where the power lies (when you cheat - it always seems to end up with a gotcha). > > Thanks guys. > > Tim > >> On 23 Mar 2020, at 15:15, James Foster <Smalltalk(a)JGFoster.net> wrote: >> >> >>> On Mar 23, 2020, at 8:14 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>> >>> Both are excellent suggestions. >>> >>> We have to think a bit about the consequences. >>> >>> Still, both would not solve the problem of what to return when the collection is empty. >> >> Zero? >> >>> >>>> On 23 Mar 2020, at 15:47, Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen(a)fastmail.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Am 23.03.20 um 14:45 schrieb James Foster: >>>> >>>>>> On Mar 23, 2020, at 6:06 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> What you found out now is that the clever trick used to avoid picking an additive identity (picking an element, counting it twice and then subtracting it) leads to a loss of precision when floating point numbers are involved. This is an important issue. >>>>> If this approach is to be preserved, then each class should have an additive identity so instead of adding and subtracting an object, we let the object tell us its zero. >>>> >>>> Or define a singleton class "Zero" with a + method that returns the other operand, and use that Zero object for the additive identity. >>>> >>>> Konrad. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

March 23, 2020

[ANN] JRMPC Poll

by Richard Kenneth Eng

https://jrmpc.ca/2020/03/20/what-makes-learning-smalltalk-challenging/ FWIW, 95% of respondents pointed to the lack of reference documentation for the class library as the major obstacle to learning Smalltalk/Pharo. Richard

March 23, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo #sum vs #sumNumbers and the consequence of #average

by Tim Mackinnon

Iâm always impressed with the quality of answers that come out of these discussions - inevitably Iâm reminded that dispatching off the right parties is ultimately where the power lies (when you cheat - it always seems to end up with a gotcha). Thanks guys. Tim > On 23 Mar 2020, at 15:15, James Foster <Smalltalk(a)JGFoster.net> wrote: > > >> On Mar 23, 2020, at 8:14 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >> Both are excellent suggestions. >> >> We have to think a bit about the consequences. >> >> Still, both would not solve the problem of what to return when the collection is empty. > > Zero? > >> >>> On 23 Mar 2020, at 15:47, Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen(a)fastmail.net> wrote: >>> >>> Am 23.03.20 um 14:45 schrieb James Foster: >>> >>>>> On Mar 23, 2020, at 6:06 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> What you found out now is that the clever trick used to avoid picking an additive identity (picking an element, counting it twice and then subtracting it) leads to a loss of precision when floating point numbers are involved. This is an important issue. >>>> If this approach is to be preserved, then each class should have an additive identity so instead of adding and subtracting an object, we let the object tell us its zero. >>> >>> Or define a singleton class "Zero" with a + method that returns the other operand, and use that Zero object for the additive identity. >>> >>> Konrad. >>> >>> >> >> >> > >

March 23, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo #sum vs #sumNumbers and the consequence of #average

by James Foster

> On Mar 23, 2020, at 8:14 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > Both are excellent suggestions. > > We have to think a bit about the consequences. > > Still, both would not solve the problem of what to return when the collection is empty. Zero? > >> On 23 Mar 2020, at 15:47, Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen(a)fastmail.net> wrote: >> >> Am 23.03.20 um 14:45 schrieb James Foster: >> >>>> On Mar 23, 2020, at 6:06 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>> >>>> What you found out now is that the clever trick used to avoid picking an additive identity (picking an element, counting it twice and then subtracting it) leads to a loss of precision when floating point numbers are involved. This is an important issue. >>> If this approach is to be preserved, then each class should have an additive identity so instead of adding and subtracting an object, we let the object tell us its zero. >> >> Or define a singleton class "Zero" with a + method that returns the other operand, and use that Zero object for the additive identity. >> >> Konrad. >> >> > > >

March 23, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo #sum vs #sumNumbers and the consequence of #average

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Both are excellent suggestions. We have to think a bit about the consequences. Still, both would not solve the problem of what to return when the collection is empty. > On 23 Mar 2020, at 15:47, Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen(a)fastmail.net> wrote: > > Am 23.03.20 um 14:45 schrieb James Foster: > >>> On Mar 23, 2020, at 6:06 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>> >>> What you found out now is that the clever trick used to avoid picking an additive identity (picking an element, counting it twice and then subtracting it) leads to a loss of precision when floating point numbers are involved. This is an important issue. >> If this approach is to be preserved, then each class should have an additive identity so instead of adding and subtracting an object, we let the object tell us its zero. > > Or define a singleton class "Zero" with a + method that returns the other operand, and use that Zero object for the additive identity. > > Konrad. > >

March 23, 2020