February 2020 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Round 3 Results Are In

by Ben Coman

Hi Richard, On Sun, 23 Feb 2020 at 18:45, Richard O'Keefe <raoknz(a)gmail.com> wrote: > This is meant to be constructive, but won't seem that way at first. > Thanks for your feedback. I can tell you're being constructive by the detail you went into. It must have taken a good ten minutes to compose and in an environment where attention is a scarce resource, that is gold. I'll definitely file it for my own future reference. > (1) The sound track very nearly drove me away in the first few seconds. > I'm deadly serious about that. I'm not on the spectrum, but my elder > daughter is, and sensory sensitivities are very common amongst ASD > people. I'm rather sensitive to noise myself. Now if the sound track > were *relevant* to the message, I'd put up with it, but I can't for the > life of me see any connection between the sound track banging away > and what's happening on the screen. > Its easy to forget such considerations when they are outside our immediate experience. Thx for the heads up. > (2) Above all, it was a *missed opportunity*. Here was the chance to > add a narration telling us what we are seeing and what it all *means*. > Something not unlike Code Bullet, maybe? > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSW-5m8lRMs The specifics are quite different. We don't have access to the teams in the same way, but I get your point. Something similar with a different slant should be possible - if the creative juices flow the right way. (3) I don't give a tinker's curse for the score. It's just a number without > any context. The scores for *all* the teams might be more interesting. > The numbers that really matter are TIME, EFFORT, and SIZE. How > long did it take each team? How much code did they end up with? How > much were they able to re-use? How many false starts had to be thrown > away? > Good points, but being the first time running such a competition, its not set up to gather that information. If a chance arose to do it, are there any further questions of interest to others? > (4) The other missed opportunity was the chance to show some of the > Pharo IDE in action. Click on a cell, bring up the halo, explore the > data structure, show some code, jump around in it. > Will try to find time to do this later on. As it is, this clip shows me > - unknown code > - solving an unfamiliar problem > - written by people I know nothing about > - using unknown tools > - with no evidence that Smalltalk helped in any way. > > If I were a Blub programmer, I'd probably ignore this > completely. At best, I'd look for the problem specification, > then say "who cares, I can do that easily in Blub". > > If you want to show that Smalltalk is the best thing since > sliced cheese, you have to show that *Smalltalk* is relevant > in some way. > Thanks for your constructive critque. cheers -ben > > > On Sun, 23 Feb 2020 at 03:53, Richard Kenneth Eng > <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNyu-3Y2arg > > > > This time, the teams must deal with Jump cells, Warp cells, and Death > cells. If you land on a Death cell, you die and the simulation terminates. > > > > Next week is the most exciting round yet. Multiple teams will be > competing on the same board! This will look so damn cool on YouTube. > > > > Richard > >

Feb. 24, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] What is the difference between a form and a morph?

by Ben Coman

On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 04:31, Steve Quezadas <steveeq1(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I usually like to go through the source code to answer my own question, > but I can't tell by reading it. > > [Morph], from what I understand, deals with manipulating graphics on > smalltalk. But when I use ZnEasy to get a jpeg file, I notice that it > returns a [Form] and not a [Morph] to display a jpeg. Spec2 also wants > [Form] for displaying images rather than [Morph]. > > So what is the difference between a [Form] and a [Morph] since they both > seem to deal with graphics? > I don't know the exact answer, but if you review method ImageMorph>>form you will see that the ImageMorph is a wrapper around a Form. So some simple differences that may be inferred. - Many morphs are not bitmaps. - Morphs are GUI elements, i.e. interact with mouse and keyboard - Forms are not GUI elements - Forms can be manipulated without displaying them. In some other graphics system, an analogy could be putting an image on a button and asking "what is the difference between an 'image' and a 'button' ?" wrt Spec2, Morph is one backend that Spec2 might use to display a Form, or Spec2 might display the Form using a GTK widget. cheers -ben

Feb. 24, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] What is the difference between a form and a morph?

by K K Subbu

On 24/02/20 10:37 AM, Steve Quezadas wrote: > > A Form is a rectangular of pixel. > I don't understand. What is a "rectangular of a pixel"? I meant rectangle of pixels. Sorry for the typo. If you want to display a bitmap, you need to know its width x height x depth. This is what a Form provides. See http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/697 > > You can create a Morph around a form with: > Don't you mean "convertÂ a [Form] to a [Morph] object"? What do you mean > by "create a Morph around a form"? No, you don't convert the form. You need a tool to see/edit/interact with this object which is what a morph allows you to do. See http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/2305 See John Maloney's article for details on Morphic GUI. HTH .. Subbu

Feb. 24, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] What is the difference between a form and a morph?

by Steve Quezadas

> A Form is a rectangular of pixel. I don't understand. What is a "rectangular of a pixel"? > You can create a Morph around a form with: Don't you mean "convert a [Form] to a [Morph] object"? What do you mean by "create a Morph around a form"? On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 7:47 PM K K Subbu <kksubbu.ml(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 24/02/20 2:00 AM, Steve Quezadas wrote: > > [Morph], from what I understand, deals with manipulating graphics on > > smalltalk. But when I use ZnEasy to get a jpeg file, I notice that it > > returns a [Form] and not a [Morph] to display a jpeg. Spec2 also wants > > [Form] for displaying images rather than [Morph]. > > > > So what is the difference between a [Form] and a [Morph] since they both > > seem to deal with graphics? > > A Form is a rectangular of pixel. Essentially, a picture. You can create > a Morph around a form with: > > aForm asMorph openInHand. > > A Morph is the basic unit of Morphic GUI - a live, direct editor of > objects. An excellent short tutorial about it is at: > > > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/freebooks/collectivenbluebook/morphic.final… > > HTH .. Subbu > >

Feb. 24, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] What is the difference between a form and a morph?

by K K Subbu

On 24/02/20 2:00 AM, Steve Quezadas wrote: > [Morph], from what I understand, deals with manipulating graphics on > smalltalk. But when I use ZnEasy to get a jpeg file, I notice that it > returns a [Form] and not a [Morph] to display a jpeg. Spec2 also wants > [Form] for displaying images rather than [Morph]. > > So what is the difference between a [Form] and a [Morph] since they both > seem to deal with graphics? A Form is a rectangular of pixel. Essentially, a picture. You can create a Morph around a form with: aForm asMorph openInHand. A Morph is the basic unit of Morphic GUI - a live, direct editor of objects. An excellent short tutorial about it is at: http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/freebooks/collectivenbluebook/morphic.final… HTH .. Subbu

Feb. 24, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Round 3 Results Are In

by Richard O'Keefe

There doesn't need to *be* a soundtrack. Everyone can handle silence, no? What purpose *does* the current video serve? On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 07:42, horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > My video serves one purpose; your video serves another. If I wanted to serve > your purpose, then yes, I'd make your video. > > As to the sound track, the truth is, you can't choose one that appeals to > everyone. Musical tastes vary. I have no doubt that regardless of my choice, > somebody will always have an issue with it. > > > > Richard O'Keefe wrote > > This is meant to be constructive, but won't seem that way at first. > > > > (1) The sound track very nearly drove me away in the first few seconds. > > I'm deadly serious about that. I'm not on the spectrum, but my elder > > daughter is, and sensory sensitivities are very common amongst ASD > > people. I'm rather sensitive to noise myself. Now if the sound track > > were *relevant* to the message, I'd put up with it, but I can't for the > > life of me see any connection between the sound track banging away > > and what's happening on the screen. > > > > (2) Above all, it was a *missed opportunity*. Here was the chance to > > add a narration telling us what we are seeing and what it all *means*. > > Something not unlike Code Bullet, maybe? > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSW-5m8lRMs > > > > (3) I don't give a tinker's curse for the score. It's just a number > > without > > any context. The scores for *all* the teams might be more interesting. > > The numbers that really matter are TIME, EFFORT, and SIZE. How > > long did it take each team? How much code did they end up with? How > > much were they able to re-use? How many false starts had to be thrown > > away? > > > > (4) The other missed opportunity was the chance to show some of the > > Pharo IDE in action. Click on a cell, bring up the halo, explore the > > data structure, show some code, jump around in it. > > > > As it is, this clip shows me > > - unknown code > > - solving an unfamiliar problem > > - written by people I know nothing about > > - using unknown tools > > - with no evidence that Smalltalk helped in any way. > > > > If I were a Blub programmer, I'd probably ignore this > > completely. At best, I'd look for the problem specification, > > then say "who cares, I can do that easily in Blub". > > > > If you want to show that Smalltalk is the best thing since > > sliced cheese, you have to show that *Smalltalk* is relevant > > in some way. > > > > > > On Sun, 23 Feb 2020 at 03:53, Richard Kenneth Eng > > < > > > horrido.hobbies@ > > > > wrote: > >> > >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNyu-3Y2arg > >> > >> This time, the teams must deal with Jump cells, Warp cells, and Death > >> cells. If you land on a Death cell, you die and the simulation > >> terminates. > >> > >> Next week is the most exciting round yet. Multiple teams will be > >> competing on the same board! This will look so damn cool on YouTube. > >> > >> Richard > > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

Feb. 24, 2020

What is the difference between a form and a morph?

by Steve Quezadas

I usually like to go through the source code to answer my own question, but I can't tell by reading it. [Morph], from what I understand, deals with manipulating graphics on smalltalk. But when I use ZnEasy to get a jpeg file, I notice that it returns a [Form] and not a [Morph] to display a jpeg. Spec2 also wants [Form] for displaying images rather than [Morph]. So what is the difference between a [Form] and a [Morph] since they both seem to deal with graphics?

Feb. 23, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Round 3 Results Are In

by horrido

My video serves one purpose; your video serves another. If I wanted to serve your purpose, then yes, I'd make your video. As to the sound track, the truth is, you can't choose one that appeals to everyone. Musical tastes vary. I have no doubt that regardless of my choice, somebody will always have an issue with it. Richard O'Keefe wrote > This is meant to be constructive, but won't seem that way at first. > > (1) The sound track very nearly drove me away in the first few seconds. > I'm deadly serious about that. I'm not on the spectrum, but my elder > daughter is, and sensory sensitivities are very common amongst ASD > people. I'm rather sensitive to noise myself. Now if the sound track > were *relevant* to the message, I'd put up with it, but I can't for the > life of me see any connection between the sound track banging away > and what's happening on the screen. > > (2) Above all, it was a *missed opportunity*. Here was the chance to > add a narration telling us what we are seeing and what it all *means*. > Something not unlike Code Bullet, maybe? > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSW-5m8lRMs > > (3) I don't give a tinker's curse for the score. It's just a number > without > any context. The scores for *all* the teams might be more interesting. > The numbers that really matter are TIME, EFFORT, and SIZE. How > long did it take each team? How much code did they end up with? How > much were they able to re-use? How many false starts had to be thrown > away? > > (4) The other missed opportunity was the chance to show some of the > Pharo IDE in action. Click on a cell, bring up the halo, explore the > data structure, show some code, jump around in it. > > As it is, this clip shows me > - unknown code > - solving an unfamiliar problem > - written by people I know nothing about > - using unknown tools > - with no evidence that Smalltalk helped in any way. > > If I were a Blub programmer, I'd probably ignore this > completely. At best, I'd look for the problem specification, > then say "who cares, I can do that easily in Blub". > > If you want to show that Smalltalk is the best thing since > sliced cheese, you have to show that *Smalltalk* is relevant > in some way. > > > On Sun, 23 Feb 2020 at 03:53, Richard Kenneth Eng > < > horrido.hobbies@ > > wrote: >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNyu-3Y2arg >> >> This time, the teams must deal with Jump cells, Warp cells, and Death >> cells. If you land on a Death cell, you die and the simulation >> terminates. >> >> Next week is the most exciting round yet. Multiple teams will be >> competing on the same board! This will look so damn cool on YouTube. >> >> Richard -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Feb. 23, 2020

Re: Problem with ZnWebSocket and closed connections

by Davide Varvello

Hi, I put nginx as a websocket proxy and I run the ZnWebSocketEchoHandler. Unfortunately also with this configuration the connection closes it after a couple of minutes of inactivity Cheers Davide -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Feb. 23, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Round 3 Results Are In

by Richard O'Keefe

This is meant to be constructive, but won't seem that way at first. (1) The sound track very nearly drove me away in the first few seconds. I'm deadly serious about that. I'm not on the spectrum, but my elder daughter is, and sensory sensitivities are very common amongst ASD people. I'm rather sensitive to noise myself. Now if the sound track were *relevant* to the message, I'd put up with it, but I can't for the life of me see any connection between the sound track banging away and what's happening on the screen. (2) Above all, it was a *missed opportunity*. Here was the chance to add a narration telling us what we are seeing and what it all *means*. Something not unlike Code Bullet, maybe? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSW-5m8lRMs (3) I don't give a tinker's curse for the score. It's just a number without any context. The scores for *all* the teams might be more interesting. The numbers that really matter are TIME, EFFORT, and SIZE. How long did it take each team? How much code did they end up with? How much were they able to re-use? How many false starts had to be thrown away? (4) The other missed opportunity was the chance to show some of the Pharo IDE in action. Click on a cell, bring up the halo, explore the data structure, show some code, jump around in it. As it is, this clip shows me - unknown code - solving an unfamiliar problem - written by people I know nothing about - using unknown tools - with no evidence that Smalltalk helped in any way. If I were a Blub programmer, I'd probably ignore this completely. At best, I'd look for the problem specification, then say "who cares, I can do that easily in Blub". If you want to show that Smalltalk is the best thing since sliced cheese, you have to show that *Smalltalk* is relevant in some way. On Sun, 23 Feb 2020 at 03:53, Richard Kenneth Eng <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNyu-3Y2arg > > This time, the teams must deal with Jump cells, Warp cells, and Death cells. If you land on a Death cell, you die and the simulation terminates. > > Next week is the most exciting round yet. Multiple teams will be competing on the same board! This will look so damn cool on YouTube. > > Richard

Feb. 23, 2020