December 2020 - Pharo-users

Re: Pharo Mars still not working on Ubuntu

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> On 12 Dec 2020, at 17:08, Santiago Bragagnolo <santiagobragagnolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > It is a bug when you have a lot of budget. Luckily we have the monthly sprints :). > Participants are always more than welcome. You can join and participate to fix these things the last friday of each month! > I can sit with you and pair program. > I am not sure if this month we have sprint, since it is by the christmas dates probably. > Marcus, do we have sprint in december? yes next friday :) > Anyway, as soon as I know i'll let you know. If it is not this this month it can be in january! It seems far but time pass really fast :). > > Looking forward, > > Santiago > > > > > El vie, 11 dic 2020 a las 16:05, kmo (<voxkmp(a)gmail.com <mailto:voxkmp@gmail.com>>) escribiÃ³: > But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then that's > still a bug, isn't it? > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html> -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

Dec. 12, 2020

Re: Pharo Mars still not working on Ubuntu

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> On 12 Dec 2020, at 11:05, Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: > > Just to chip in here - the work demonstrated on Pharo development is inspirational. Rather than throwing everything away, it shows the alternative - incrementally improving a running platform - and practicing what we preach in industry by refactoring a large elderly code base bit by bit - it's remarkable. > > While its true we donât always immediately get things fixed that we might personally want, but then again we are relying on the free personal time of others. But collectively, the most important things do get fixed/improved, and if there is something that really bothers you, then the over arching lesson is that you have to roll up your sleaves and try and fix it yourself and in showing willingness you normally find that others will help you. > > So Steph et al, I am glad that you love this platform (and have for many years), but more startlingly - i heard you all talk about a vision of improvements back in Lugano many years agoâ¦ and gosh we are seeing those improvements roll out year after year. Even more - we are slowly getting the kind of development/experiment workbench platform that good developers should have. Its being invented under our eyes, and that is exciting. :) > So I hope you dont feel dispondent - I think history viewed over a longer period will actually show a more positive picture. Iâm pretty sure it will :) Because we know where we want to go and this is nice :) Thanks a lot tim. And we will continue :) > > Tim > > > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2020, at 9:20 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> It depends how old. >> We cannot do magic. >> In particular, if more people would help fixing simple things in Pharo we would then have the time for more boring and challenging issues. >> Because in my personal case, Iâm not paid to develop and lead Pharo dev. >> My own carrer and CV do not depend on Pharo and in fact I could publish much more >> and look much smarter without it. >> >> S. >> >> >> >>> But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then that's >>> still a bug, isn't it? >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------- >> StÃ©phane Ducasse >> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr <http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/> / http://www.pharo.org <http://www.pharo.org/> >> 03 59 35 87 52 >> Assistant: Aurore Dalle >> FAX 03 59 57 78 50 >> TEL 03 59 35 86 16 >> S. Ducasse - Inria >> 40, avenue Halley, >> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza >> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 >> France -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

Dec. 12, 2020

Call for Beta-testers Pharo ARM64 JIT

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Dear happy Pharoers and others, Over the last months we have been working on the implementation of a MIT-licensed ARMv8 Just-In-Time compiler for Pharo VM. We are very happy with the advance on this subject, as we have not only implemented a new backend but we have added more than 2500 tests to the JIT, the primitives, code generation, plugins and the VM in general. In the process we fixed many problems. It shows that following the roadmap that was decided during General assembly of PharoDays, we have been investing in the Pharo VM and that our efforts are greatly paying off. Also, we are generating a lot of documentation and improving the process to really democratize the development of the VM. So Pharo is a better shape than ever on such matter and this opens a lot of possibility for the future. ## Call for Beta-Testers We would like to announce that a first version of our JIT backend is available for beta-testing for ARM Linux machines using Ubuntu. We are now entering into a beta testing stage of the VM and the image in Ubuntu ARM 64. We would like to invite you to our beta testing phase for the VM. If you're interested in participating, please contact pablo.tesone(a)inria.fr. The following sections give more details of the current status, and the following steps including Apple Silicon, Windows ARM64 and Linux Open Build System support. ## Current Status Our objective is to have a running JIT for the new aarch64 architecture (ARM 64bits). This task includes not only a new backend for the JIT compiler but also adding support for external libraries, dependencies and the build process. This means having a working VM with comparable features as the one existing in Intel X64. We are targeting all the major operating systems running in this platform (Linux, OSX, Windows). Each of them present different restrictions and conditions. This is the current status: - We implemented a full backend for the JIT compiler targeting aarch64. - All the image side was adapted to run on it, tested on Ubuntu ARM 64 bits. - We added support for: Iceberg (Libgit) / Athens (Cairo) / SDL / GTK - We implemented a LibFFI-based FFI backend as the default one for Pharo 9 in aarch64 (next to come in all platforms). This opens the door to ease port the features to other platforms and OSes. ## Following Steps and Open Betas: Linux Open Build System (OBS), Windows ARM64 and Apple Silicon Linux Systems: In the following days, we will also support Raspbian (Debian) and Manjaro on ARM64. For doing so, we are pushing the last details in having a single Linux build system through OBS. So, if you want to start doing beta-testing of these versions please contact us. A public beta will be open in around two weeks. Windows Systems: We have extended the build process to fully support Microsoft Visual Studio compilers and more flexibility to select the targets, also we are building it to run in Windows ARM. To correctly run the VM in Windows it is needed to build all dependencies for aarch64. In the following weeks, we expect to have a working Non-JIT version and a JIT version. The remaining points to have a JIT version are related with the build process as the API of the operating system has not changed from X64 to aarch64. OSX Systems: Our third target is to have a working version for the newest Apple silicon. We are acquiring the corresponding hardware to test and to address the differences in the API exposed to JIT applications. As it is the case of the Windows VM, there is not need to change the machine code generation backend; but to compile external libraries, and particularities of the new OS version. Thanks for your support, and again, if you like to start beta testing the VM please contact us. In the meantime, we will continue giving you news about the current state and where are we going. The consortium would like to particularly thank Schmidt Buro and Lifeware for their contracts. Regards, Pablo in behalf of the Pharo Consortium Engineers -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

Dec. 12, 2020

Re: Pharo Mars still not working on Ubuntu

by Santiago Bragagnolo

It is a bug when you have a lot of budget. Luckily we have the monthly sprints :). Participants are always more than welcome. You can join and participate to fix these things the last friday of each month! I can sit with you and pair program. I am not sure if this month we have sprint, since it is by the christmas dates probably. Marcus, do we have sprint in december? Anyway, as soon as I know i'll let you know. If it is not this this month it can be in january! It seems far but time pass really fast :). Looking forward, Santiago El vie, 11 dic 2020 a las 16:05, kmo (<voxkmp(a)gmail.com>) escribiÃ³: > But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then that's > still a bug, isn't it? > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

Dec. 12, 2020

Re: Pharo Mars still not working on Ubuntu

by Tim Mackinnon

Just to chip in here - the work demonstrated on Pharo development is inspirational. Rather than throwing everything away, it shows the alternative - incrementally improving a running platform - and practicing what we preach in industry by refactoring a large elderly code base bit by bit - it's remarkable. While its true we donât always immediately get things fixed that we might personally want, but then again we are relying on the free personal time of others. But collectively, the most important things do get fixed/improved, and if there is something that really bothers you, then the over arching lesson is that you have to roll up your sleaves and try and fix it yourself and in showing willingness you normally find that others will help you. So Steph et al, I am glad that you love this platform (and have for many years), but more startlingly - i heard you all talk about a vision of improvements back in Lugano many years agoâ¦ and gosh we are seeing those improvements roll out year after year. Even more - we are slowly getting the kind of development/experiment workbench platform that good developers should have. Its being invented under our eyes, and that is exciting. So I hope you dont feel dispondent - I think history viewed over a longer period will actually show a more positive picture. Tim On Fri, 11 Dec 2020, at 9:20 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > It depends how old. > We cannot do magic. > In particular, if more people would help fixing simple things in Pharo we would then have the time for more boring and challenging issues. > Because in my personal case, Iâm not paid to develop and lead Pharo dev. > My own carrer and CV do not depend on Pharo and in fact I could publish much more > and look much smarter without it. > > S. > > > >> But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then that's >> still a bug, isn't it? >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > -------------------------------------------- > StÃ©phane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org > 03 59 35 87 52 > Assistant: Aurore Dalle > FAX 03 59 57 78 50 > TEL 03 59 35 86 16 > S. Ducasse - Inria > 40, avenue Halley, > Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza > Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 > France

Dec. 12, 2020

Re: Pharo Mars still not working on Ubuntu

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

It depends how old. We cannot do magic. In particular, if more people would help fixing simple things in Pharo we would then have the time for more boring and challenging issues. Because in my personal case, Iâm not paid to develop and lead Pharo dev. My own carrer and CV do not depend on Pharo and in fact I could publish much more and look much smarter without it. S. > But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then that's > still a bug, isn't it? > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

Dec. 11, 2020

Re: Pharo Mars still not working on Ubuntu

by kmo

But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then that's still a bug, isn't it? -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Dec. 11, 2020

UK Smalltalk User Group Meeting - Wednesday, December 30th

by Giovanni Corriga

The UK Smalltalk User Group will have an extra meeting this year on Wednesday, December 30th. feenk's Tudor Girba will present the latest in moldable development with Glamorous Toolkit. Moldable development is an approach to programming through which we make the inside of software systems explainable. Glamorous Toolkit makes it practical. And beautiful. Given the current COVID-19 restrictions, this will be an online meeting from home. If you'd like to join us, please sign up in advance on the meeting's Meetup page ( https://www.meetup.com/UKSTUG/events/275119813/ ) to receive the meeting details. Donât forget to bring your laptop and drinks!

Dec. 11, 2020

Re: Pharo Mars still not working on Ubuntu

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> On 11 Dec 2020, at 09:01, yvan Godin <yvan.godin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello > May be you shouldn't spend time on that because I have successfully tested > Gtk-bind on a more recent laptop /(IntelÂ© Coreâ¢ i7 16GoRam versus Pentium > 4Go )/ with same Ubuntu 19 > sorry for inconvenience and thanks everybody Yvan there is no problem. We prefer that you report a non bug that you do not report a bug. And I do like to hear that we neglect linux because this is not the case. Now there is one version of Mac at the time (plus three old versions) but we do not have this situation for the thing called âlinuxâ S. > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

Dec. 11, 2020

Re: Pharo Mars still not working on Ubuntu

by yvan Godin

Hello May be you shouldn't spend time on that because I have successfully tested Gtk-bind on a more recent laptop /(IntelÂ© Coreâ¢ i7 16GoRam versus Pentium 4Go )/ with same Ubuntu 19 sorry for inconvenience and thanks everybody -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Dec. 11, 2020