December 2020 - Pharo-users

Re: Pharo Mars still not working on Ubuntu

by Marcus Denker

> On 12 Dec 2020, at 17:08, Santiago Bragagnolo <santiagobragagnolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > It is a bug when you have a lot of budget. Luckily we have the monthly sprints :). > Participants are always more than welcome. You can join and participate to fix these things the last friday of each month! > I can sit with you and pair program. > I am not sure if this month we have sprint, since it is by the christmas dates probably. > Marcus, do we have sprint in december? This fridayâ¦ I will send the announce mail. > Anyway, as soon as I know i'll let you know. If it is not this this month it can be in january! It seems far but time pass really fast :). > And I will check the next 6 month sprint planning. Marcus

Dec. 14, 2020

Re: Pharo Mars still not working on Ubuntu

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Esteban is trying to understand why he cannot register to this mailing-list and he asked me to past the following so I do it. "first, as Stef says we cannot do magic and SpecGtk relies on Gtk3. More specific, it relies in a specific version of Gtk3, in this case you need Gtk 3.24 or newer. if you have an older linux version, is likely you also have an older Gtk3 version... hence the crash. this is not a bug but I agree we need to add a version validation to not crash but instead show a messageâ Stef

Dec. 14, 2020

Re: [Pharo-dev] Call for Beta-testers Pharo ARM64 JIT

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi, This is fantastic news on several levels - the new JIT itself, but even more the new approach, process, infrastructure and tests. (Sorry, but this is a long/techncal mail). A week ago I was one of the first people outside the development team to be able to test the new ARM64 JIT VM on hardware they did not even test on. In particular I used an Amazon AWS EC2 T4g.micro instance (1 GB) with Ubuntu Server 20.04.1 LTS. These machines use an ARM64 CPU (AWS Graviton2, Neoverse N1, Cortex-A76, ARM v8). https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/graviton/ https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/t4/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annapurna_Labs#AWS_Graviton2 ubuntu@ip-172-30-0-23:~/test$ uname -a Linux ip-172-30-0-23 5.4.0-1030-aws #31-Ubuntu SMP Fri Nov 13 11:42:04 UTC 2020 aarch64 aarch64 aarch64 GNU/Linux ubuntu@ip-172-30-0-23:~/test$ lscpu Architecture: aarch64 CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit Byte Order: Little Endian CPU(s): 2 On-line CPU(s) list: 0,1 Thread(s) per core: 1 Core(s) per socket: 2 Socket(s): 1 NUMA node(s): 1 Vendor ID: ARM Model: 1 Model name: Neoverse-N1 Stepping: r3p1 BogoMIPS: 243.75 L1d cache: 128 KiB L1i cache: 128 KiB L2 cache: 2 MiB L3 cache: 32 MiB NUMA node0 CPU(s): 0,1 Vulnerability Itlb multihit: Not affected Vulnerability L1tf: Not affected Vulnerability Mds: Not affected Vulnerability Meltdown: Not affected Vulnerability Spec store bypass: Mitigation; Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl Vulnerability Spectre v1: Mitigation; __user pointer sanitization Vulnerability Spectre v2: Not affected Vulnerability Srbds: Not affected Vulnerability Tsx async abort: Not affected Flags: fp asimd evtstrm aes pmull sha1 sha2 crc32 atomics fphp asimdhp cpuid asimdrdm lrcpc dcpop asimddp ssbs My reaction after one hour ? Wow, wow, wow, this is incredible. It all just works and it seems pretty fast as well. I played with the vm/image for a couple of minutes and so far everything worked as expected and I had no crashes at all. The order of magnitude of 1 tinyBenchmarks is very similar to other (server) machines: "'1894542090 bytecodes/sec; 146296146 sends/sec'" "arm64" "'2767567567 bytecodes/sec; 258718969 sends/sec'" "macOS" "'1227082085 bytecodes/sec; 109422120 sends/sec'" "aws" "'2101590559 bytecodes/sec; 166532391 sends/sec'" "t3 lxd" Here is a benchmark in the HTTP space, how fast can ZnServer respond to multiple concurrent requests over the local network: $ ./pharo Pharo.image eval --no-quit 'ZnServer startDefaultOn: 1701' & $ ab -k -n 1024 -c 8 http://localhost:1701/small This is ApacheBench, Version 2.3 <$Revision: 1843412 $> Copyright 1996 Adam Twiss, Zeus Technology Ltd, http://www.zeustech.net/ Licensed to The Apache Software Foundation, http://www.apache.org/ Server Software: Zinc Server Hostname: localhost Server Port: 1701 Document Path: /small Document Length: 124 bytes Concurrency Level: 8 Time taken for tests: 0.268 seconds Complete requests: 1024 Failed requests: 0 Keep-Alive requests: 1024 Total transferred: 317440 bytes HTML transferred: 126976 bytes Requests per second: 3814.45 [#/sec] (mean) Time per request: 2.097 [ms] (mean) Time per request: 0.262 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests) Transfer rate: 1154.76 [Kbytes/sec] received Connection Times (ms) min mean[+/-sd] median max Connect: 0 0 0.0 0 0 Processing: 0 2 19.0 0 267 Waiting: 0 2 19.0 0 267 Total: 0 2 19.0 0 267 Percentage of the requests served within a certain time (ms) 50% 0 66% 0 75% 0 80% 0 90% 0 95% 0 98% 0 99% 42 100% 267 (longest request) That is 3800 req/s with 8 concurrent threads, each response 124 bytes. And the output document is dynamically generated each time ! Now a cached static binary document, first a small one (64 bytes): $ ab -k -n 1024 -c 8 http://localhost:1701/bytes This is ApacheBench, Version 2.3 <$Revision: 1843412 $> Copyright 1996 Adam Twiss, Zeus Technology Ltd, http://www.zeustech.net/ Licensed to The Apache Software Foundation, http://www.apache.org/ Server Software: Zinc Server Hostname: localhost Server Port: 1701 Document Path: /bytes Document Length: 64 bytes Concurrency Level: 8 Time taken for tests: 0.214 seconds Complete requests: 1024 Failed requests: 0 Keep-Alive requests: 1024 Total transferred: 256000 bytes HTML transferred: 65536 bytes Requests per second: 4778.62 [#/sec] (mean) Time per request: 1.674 [ms] (mean) Time per request: 0.209 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests) Transfer rate: 1166.65 [Kbytes/sec] received Connection Times (ms) min mean[+/-sd] median max Connect: 0 0 0.0 0 0 Processing: 0 2 12.3 0 207 Waiting: 0 2 12.3 0 207 Total: 0 2 12.3 0 207 Percentage of the requests served within a certain time (ms) 50% 0 66% 0 75% 0 80% 0 90% 0 95% 0 98% 5 99% 64 100% 207 (longest request) That is 4700 req/s Now a larger one, 1024 bytes: $ ab -k -n 1024 -c 8 http://localhost:1701/bytes/1024 This is ApacheBench, Version 2.3 <$Revision: 1843412 $> Copyright 1996 Adam Twiss, Zeus Technology Ltd, http://www.zeustech.net/ Licensed to The Apache Software Foundation, http://www.apache.org/ Server Software: Zinc Server Hostname: localhost Server Port: 1701 Document Path: /bytes/1024 Document Length: 1024 bytes Concurrency Level: 8 Time taken for tests: 0.228 seconds Complete requests: 1024 Failed requests: 0 Keep-Alive requests: 1024 Total transferred: 1241088 bytes HTML transferred: 1048576 bytes Requests per second: 4484.93 [#/sec] (mean) Time per request: 1.784 [ms] (mean) Time per request: 0.223 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests) Transfer rate: 5308.34 [Kbytes/sec] received Connection Times (ms) min mean[+/-sd] median max Connect: 0 0 0.0 0 0 Processing: 0 2 16.2 0 227 Waiting: 0 2 16.2 0 227 Total: 0 2 16.2 0 227 Percentage of the requests served within a certain time (ms) 50% 0 66% 0 75% 0 80% 0 90% 0 95% 0 98% 0 99% 41 100% 227 (longest request) Still 4400 req/s - 1024 requests finished in about 0.25 seconds, transferring 1Mb. These are really good numbers ! Of course, with an actual network between the client and the server, the numbers are much lower, but this localhost benchmark gives you an idea of the maximum speed that is theoretically possible. And under this load, the image+vm remained totally stable. Since then I started a public Zn HTTP server, Pharo 9 live on an ARM64 JIT VM: http://34.245.183.130:1701 http://34.245.183.130:1701/status http://34.245.183.130:1701/help I want to see how long it keeps running. You can test this for yourself. Idle load of the VM is also excellent: 0.3% CPU. Overall machine load is 0.00 ! I fiddled around a bit more the next day. Everything kept on going smooth, nothing unexpected happened. I could use the command line tools to save a new image, load several of my packages using metacello from github using a baseline and tonel, I could run all test suites just fine. Everything was just *fast*. I installed NeoConsole so that I could use telnet to get a REPL into a running image. A week later, the server Pharo image was still running fine. In summary: Great, great work and thanks again everyone for the effort. You (in particular Pablo, Guille, Esteban and the whole Pharo community) can be very proud of this achievement. Sven > On 12 Dec 2020, at 17:31, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Dear happy Pharoers and others, > > Over the last months we have been working on the implementation of a MIT-licensed ARMv8 Just-In-Time compiler for Pharo VM. > We are very happy with the advance on this subject, as we have not only implemented a new backend but we have added more than 2500 > tests to the JIT, the primitives, code generation, plugins and the VM in general. In the process we fixed many problems. > It shows that following the roadmap that was decided during General assembly of PharoDays, we have been investing in the Pharo VM and that > our efforts are greatly paying off. > Also, we are generating a lot of documentation and improving the process to really democratize the development of the VM. > So Pharo is a better shape than ever on such matter and this opens a lot of possibility for the future. > > ## Call for Beta-Testers > > We would like to announce that a first version of our JIT backend is available for beta-testing for ARM Linux machines using Ubuntu. > We are now entering into a beta testing stage of the VM and the image in Ubuntu ARM 64. > We would like to invite you to our beta testing phase for the VM. If you're interested in participating, > please contact pablo.tesone(a)inria.fr. > > The following sections give more details of the current status, and the following steps including Apple Silicon, Windows ARM64 and Linux Open Build System support. > > ## Current Status > > Our objective is to have a running JIT for the new aarch64 architecture (ARM 64bits). This task includes not only a new backend for the JIT compiler but also adding support for external libraries, dependencies and the build process. > This means having a working VM with comparable features as the one existing in Intel X64. We are targeting all the major operating systems running in this platform (Linux, OSX, Windows). > Each of them present different restrictions and conditions. > > This is the current status: > > - We implemented a full backend for the JIT compiler targeting aarch64. > - All the image side was adapted to run on it, tested on Ubuntu ARM 64 bits. > - We added support for: Iceberg (Libgit) / Athens (Cairo) / SDL / GTK > - We implemented a LibFFI-based FFI backend as the default one for Pharo 9 in aarch64 (next to come in all platforms). > This opens the door to ease port the features to other platforms and OSes. > > ## Following Steps and Open Betas: Linux Open Build System (OBS), Windows ARM64 and Apple Silicon > > Linux Systems: In the following days, we will also support Raspbian (Debian) and Manjaro on ARM64. For doing so, we are pushing the last details in having a single Linux build system through OBS. So, if you want to start doing beta-testing of these versions please contact us. A public beta will be open in around two weeks. > > Windows Systems: We have extended the build process to fully support Microsoft Visual Studio compilers and more flexibility to select the targets, also we are building it to run in Windows ARM. To correctly run the VM in Windows it is needed to build all dependencies for aarch64. In the following weeks, we expect to have a working Non-JIT version and a JIT version. The remaining points to have a JIT version are related with the build process as the API of the operating system has not changed from X64 to aarch64. > > OSX Systems: Our third target is to have a working version for the newest Apple silicon. We are acquiring the corresponding hardware to test and to address the differences in the API exposed to JIT applications. As it is the case of the Windows VM, there is not need to change the machine code generation backend; but to compile external libraries, and particularities of the new OS version. > > Thanks for your support, and again, if you like to start beta testing the VM please contact us. In the meantime, we will continue giving you news about the current state and where are we going. > > The consortium would like to particularly thank Schmidt Buro and Lifeware for their contracts. > > Regards, > > Pablo in behalf of the Pharo Consortium Engineers > -------------------------------------------- > StÃ©phane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org > 03 59 35 87 52 > Assistant: Aurore Dalle > FAX 03 59 57 78 50 > TEL 03 59 35 86 16 > S. Ducasse - Inria > 40, avenue Halley, > Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza > Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 > France > -- Sven Van Caekenberghe Proudly supporting Pharo http://pharo.org http://association.pharo.org http://consortium.pharo.org

Dec. 13, 2020

Re: Please explain self

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hello All this is explained in the Mooc (with mutliple videos and gradually) and Pharo by Example chapter. Pay attention you do not need to understand the metaclass core to program in Pharo. This is just for fun and a bonus. This is why in general I do not show this diagram directly. Check the mooc videos we designed based on more than 10 years of experience teaching Pharo to people. S > On 12 Dec 2020, at 20:20, g_patrickb--- via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > I understand if you have Class A with methods p and q that you can call q from p doing: > > self q > > But there are some cases where a method doesnât exist but self is still used. I found a tutorial on creating a Reddit type app and it had a .mcz which I loaded. > > Here is an example from Class StLoggedInComponent and method refreshReport: > > self report rows: (self session user tasks select: self filterBlock). > > There is a method âreportâ so I understand that, but there is no method named âsessionâ so what is the use of self? > > And Class StDatabase has method âupdateTask:â has: > > self subclassResponsibility. > > But no method called âsubclassResponsibilityâ exists in the Class. > > Also, Class StLoggedInComponents has method âtestTasksâ with this: > > ^ self class testTasks > > What is âself classâ? > > Thank you. > -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

Dec. 13, 2020

Re: Please explain self

by Richard O'Keefe

#subclassResponsibility is defined in Object. A good way to find this out is to - select 'subclassResponsibility' with the mouse - type Control-M Control-M asks for a list of the iMplementors of the method. Control-N asks for a list of the seNders of the message. This particular method just raises an exception. It is how you define what some languages call an "abstract method"; a method whose *interface* is defined in the current class but whose *implementation* is deferred to subclasses. I can't help you with #session except to suggest that it is probably defined in some superclass. In the browser button bar between the upper and lower panes you may see (*) Flat ( ) Hier Clicking on Hier will change the class pane (2nd from the left, upper level) to an indented list, making it easy to see what the superclass chain is. On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 08:21, g_patrickb--- via Pharo-users < pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > I understand if you have Class A with methods p and q that you can call q > from p doing: > > self q > > But there are some cases where a method doesnât exist but self is still > used. I found a tutorial on creating a Reddit type app and it had a .mcz > which I loaded. > > Here is an example from Class StLoggedInComponent and method refreshReport: > > self report rows: (self session user tasks select: self filterBlock). > > There is a method âreportâ so I understand that, but there is no method > named âsessionâ so what is the use of self? > > And Class StDatabase has method âupdateTask:â has: > > self subclassResponsibility. > > But no method called âsubclassResponsibilityâ exists in the Class. > > Also, Class StLoggedInComponents has method âtestTasksâ with this: > > ^ self class testTasks > > What is âself classâ? > > Thank you. >

Dec. 13, 2020

Re: Please explain self

by Richard Sargent

I'll add a small bit to Davide's excellent answer, by way of connecting some of the dots. In particular, the browser makes a class look like one thing and we talk about instance side and class side. The reality is that the browser presents either the class' behaviours or the metaclass' behaviours, depending on whether we have chosen to see "the instance side" or "the class side". Admittedly, the names we use for the sides add to the possible confusion. On Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 12:20 Davide Grandi <davide.grandi(a)email.it> wrote: > Objects are instances of a class. > Classes are objects, so they have methods. > 'self class' returns the class of self. > > If a class doesn't have a methods ... > ... the search continues in the superclass. > (every class has a superclass ... apart from Object). > > If you download the Blue Book - "Smalltalk-80 - The language and it's > implementation", > it's free on the net, you'll find an AWSOME explanation and diagram from > page 270 on, until ... > ... the final map : classes and metaclass. > > but you've to read it these pages, before. There's a 'metaclass' concept > to acquire. > > Bon voyage ! > > Davide > On 12/12/2020 20:20, g_patrickb--- via Pharo-users wrote: > > I understand if you have Class A with methods p and q that you can call q > from p doing: > > self q > > But there are some cases where a method doesnât exist but self is still > used. I found a tutorial on creating a Reddit type app and it had a .mcz > which I loaded. > > Here is an example from Class StLoggedInComponent and method refreshReport: > > self report rows: (self session user tasks select: self filterBlock). > > There is a method âreportâ so I understand that, but there is no method > named âsessionâ so what is the use of self? > > And Class StDatabase has method âupdateTask:â has: > > self subclassResponsibility. > > But no method called âsubclassResponsibilityâ exists in the Class. > > Also, Class StLoggedInComponents has method âtestTasksâ with this: > > ^ self class testTasks > > What is âself classâ? > > Thank you. > > -- > Ing. Davide Grandi > linkedin : http://linkedin.com/in/davidegrandi > >

Dec. 12, 2020

Re: Please explain self

by Davide Grandi

Objects are instances of a class. Classes are objects, so they have methods. 'self class' returns the class of self. If a class doesn't have a methods ... ... the search continues in the superclass. (every class has a superclass ... apart from Object). If you download the Blue BookÂ - "Smalltalk-80 - The language and it's implementation", it's free on the net, you'll find an AWSOME explanation and diagram from page 270 on, until ... ... the final map : classes and metaclass. but you've to read it these pages, before. There's a 'metaclass' concept to acquire. Bon voyage ! Â Â Â Davide On 12/12/2020 20:20, g_patrickb--- via Pharo-users wrote: > > I understand if you have Class A with methods p and q that you can > call q from p doing: > > self q > > But there are some cases where a method doesnât exist but self is > still used. I found a tutorial on creating a Reddit type app and it > had a .mcz which I loaded. > > Here is an example from Class StLoggedInComponent and method > refreshReport: > > self report rows: (self session user tasks select: self filterBlock). > > There is a method âreportâ so I understand that, but there is no > method named âsessionâ so what is the use of self? > > And Class StDatabase has method âupdateTask:â has: > > self subclassResponsibility. > > But no method called âsubclassResponsibilityâ exists in the Class. > > Also, Class StLoggedInComponents has method âtestTasksâ with this: > > ^ self class testTasks > > What is âself classâ? > > Thank you. > -- Ing. Davide Grandi linkedin : http://linkedin.com/in/davidegrandi

Dec. 12, 2020

Please explain self

by g_patrickb＠yahoo.com

I understand if you have Class A with methods p and q that you can call q from p doing: self q But there are some cases where a method doesnât exist but self is still used. I found a tutorial on creating a Reddit type app and it had a .mcz which I loaded. Here is an example from Class StLoggedInComponent and method refreshReport: self report rows: (self session user tasks select: self filterBlock). There is a method âreportâ so I understand that, but there is no method named âsessionâ so what is the use of self? And Class StDatabase has method âupdateTask:â has: self subclassResponsibility. But no method called âsubclassResponsibilityâ exists in the Class. Also, Class StLoggedInComponents has method âtestTasksâ with this: ^ self class testTasks What is âself classâ? Thank you.

Dec. 12, 2020

Re: Pharo Mars still not working on Ubuntu

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

tx offray Lua is an inspiration from that perspective. Now we play the game because publishing is also a nice way to understand what we are doing and because this is important to play the game else we would be considered as losers. S. > On 12 Dec 2020, at 19:20, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > Just to add a little bit to Tim's remark, I'm pretty happy that Pharo academicians, starting with StÃ©phane, value more making a real difference in the world, via delivering working and improving software, that talking about the theoretical possible changes when paper's "conclusions further possibilities and studies" will be applied, developed and widely understood (it's also a pretty uncommon path followed by Lua academician's at Rio University.) > > In a world of mostly self-serving academia trapped in the game of papers publishing and metrics only valuable inside academia, is good to have academicians breaking the novelty fetiche spell and preferring _being_ smarter and empathic with continuous delivery, improvements and broad community building, instead just _looking_ smarter, via papers publishing and ego inflation inside the Ivory Tower. > > Thanks again Stephan and other Pharo academicians to show us a glimpse of what academia could be when priorities are put in proper places. > > Offray > > On 12/12/20 5:05 a. m., Tim Mackinnon wrote: >> Just to chip in here - the work demonstrated on Pharo development is inspirational. Rather than throwing everything away, it shows the alternative - incrementally improving a running platform - and practicing what we preach in industry by refactoring a large elderly code base bit by bit - it's remarkable. >> >> While its true we donât always immediately get things fixed that we might personally want, but then again we are relying on the free personal time of others. But collectively, the most important things do get fixed/improved, and if there is something that really bothers you, then the over arching lesson is that you have to roll up your sleaves and try and fix it yourself and in showing willingness you normally find that others will help you. >> >> So Steph et al, I am glad that you love this platform (and have for many years), but more startlingly - i heard you all talk about a vision of improvements back in Lugano many years agoâ¦ and gosh we are seeing those improvements roll out year after year. Even more - we are slowly getting the kind of development/experiment workbench platform that good developers should have. Its being invented under our eyes, and that is exciting. >> >> So I hope you dont feel dispondent - I think history viewed over a longer period will actually show a more positive picture. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> On Fri, 11 Dec 2020, at 9:20 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> It depends how old. >>> We cannot do magic. >>> In particular, if more people would help fixing simple things in Pharo we would then have the time for more boring and challenging issues. >>> Because in my personal case, Iâm not paid to develop and lead Pharo dev. >>> My own carrer and CV do not depend on Pharo and in fact I could publish much more >>> and look much smarter without it. >>> >>> S. >>> >>> >>> >>>> But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then that's >>>> still a bug, isn't it? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> StÃ©phane Ducasse >>> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr <http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/> / http://www.pharo.org <http://www.pharo.org/> >>> 03 59 35 87 52 >>> Assistant: Aurore Dalle >>> FAX 03 59 57 78 50 >>> TEL 03 59 35 86 16 >>> S. Ducasse - Inria >>> 40, avenue Halley, >>> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza >>> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 >>> France -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

Dec. 12, 2020

Re: Pharo Mars still not working on Ubuntu

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Hi, Just to add a little bit to Tim's remark, I'm pretty happy that Pharo academicians, starting with StÃ©phane, value more making a real difference in the world, via delivering working and improving software, that talking about the theoretical possible changes when paper's "conclusions further possibilities and studies" will be applied, developed and widely understood (it's also a pretty uncommon path followed by Lua academician's at Rio University.) In a world of mostly self-serving academia trapped in the game of papers publishing and metrics only valuable inside academia, is good to have academicians breaking the novelty fetiche spell and preferring _being_ smarter and empathic with continuous delivery, improvements and broad community building, instead just _looking_ smarter, via papers publishing and ego inflation inside the Ivory Tower. Thanks again Stephan and other Pharo academicians to show us a glimpse of what academia could be when priorities are put in proper places. Offray On 12/12/20 5:05 a.Â m., Tim Mackinnon wrote: > Just to chip in here - the work demonstrated on Pharo development is > inspirational. Rather than throwing everything away, it shows the > alternative - incrementally improving a running platform - and > practicing what we preach in industry by refactoring a large elderly > code base bit by bit - it's remarkable. > > While its true we donât always immediately get things fixed that we > might personally want, but then again we are relying on the free > personal time of others. But collectively, the most important things > do get fixed/improved, and if there is something that really bothers > you, then the over arching lesson is that you have to roll up your > sleaves and try and fix it yourself and in showing willingness you > normally find that others will help you. > > So Steph et al, I am glad that you love this platform (and have for > many years), but more startlingly - i heard you all talk about a > vision of improvements back in Lugano many years agoâ¦ and gosh we are > seeing those improvements roll out year after year. Even more - we are > slowly getting the kind of development/experiment workbench platform > that good developers should have. Its being invented under our eyes, > and that is exciting. > > So I hope you dont feel dispondent - I think history viewed over a > longer period will actually show a more positive picture. > > Tim > > > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2020, at 9:20 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> It depends how old.Â >> We cannot do magic.Â >> In particular, if more people would help fixing simple things in >> Pharo we would then have the time for more boring and challenging issues. >> Because in my personal case, Iâm not paid to develop and lead Pharo dev.Â >> My own carrer and CV do not depend on Pharo and in fact I could >> publish much moreÂ >> and look much smarter without it.Â >> >> S.Â >> >> >> >>> But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then >>> that's >>> still a bug, isn't it? >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>> <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html> >> >> -------------------------------------------- >> StÃ©phane Ducasse >> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr <http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr> / >> http://www.pharo.org <http://www.pharo.org>Â >> 03 59 35 87 52 >> Assistant: Aurore DalleÂ >> FAX 03 59 57 78 50 >> TEL 03 59 35 86 16 >> S. Ducasse - Inria >> 40, avenue Halley,Â >> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza >> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 >> France >

Dec. 12, 2020