January 2020 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Just curious...

by Richard Kenneth Eng

In the Playground, if I type in 0.1s and then "Print it", I get the following output: *0.1s1* What does the *s1* stand for? Why doesn't it simply print *s*?

Jan. 30, 2020

[ANN] Hashtable on pharo-contributions

by Cyril Ferlicot

Hi! In Moose there is a project call "Hashtable". The goal of this project is to provide faster collections when they have a big number of elements. I think this is something that can be useful for more than just Moose so I extracted it to pharo-contributions so that we can use it and improve it more. https://github.com/pharo-contributions/Hashtable Have a nice day. -- Cyril Ferlicot https://ferlicot.fr

Jan. 30, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Large Image Generator

by Benoit St-Jean

Thanks for your quick & detailed answer Pablo! I have a big list of ideas, all I need to do now is to type my notes! I wasn't sure if you wanted to test performance of a specific part/aspect of Pharo/VM hence my question to clarify all that! Is there any preferred image (8.x or 9.x) you're looking for? Do you need/want tests that might only apply to P8 or your starting point is P9? Are you considering tests that use Morph/UI objects as well? P.S. I just installed the latest Pharo Launcher and it rocks (long story short, don't ask, I had tons of problems previously because of the accentuated "i" in my first name, stuff that hadn't been removed when I uninstalled, etc. and I'm on Sh*tdows 10 !) so I'll first start by moving all my stuff into ONE place (Thanks Pharo Launcher!!!!) and after that experiment a little bit with Iceberg! In the meantime, would you consider contributions in the form of a fileOut/mcz file ? On 2020-01-29 13:30, tesonep(a)gmail.com wrote: > Hi Benoit, > the main idea as always is to have better tests. > We have seen that Pharo, and many users reported, that Pharo does not > behaves correctly in some cases when handling large images. When I > take about large images, I am talking about images with a lot of code > and/or with a lot of data (yes the code for us is data... but I am > just differencing because if we are testing senders / implementors we > don't care about having a 10GB ByteArray). > > Also we have seen that for correctly testing this scenarios, we need > good images, because depending the characteristics of the image it > stress different parts of the system. As you correctly said we need to > improve the tools (Calypso, System Navigation, Spotter, Iceberg, etc) > and the infrastructure (GC, Compiler, VM in general). So we need to > generate a lot of different images with different characteristics. > > Also, as you correctly mentioned we need to generate images with > static behavior and with dynamic behavior (e.g., lots of concurrent > processes). > > The main goal of the project is to start a recollection of existing > solutions and to add new ones to generate this synthetic images. We > want also to generate images that reproduce the nature of images. For > example, it is not enough to generate random method selectors if we > are testing the indexing of them. A good index varies its performance > depending of the nature of the text. We need to generate random > methods following some rules a developer whould use, for example using > more a given word or using real words. > > So basically, we started collecting the easy algorithms to generate > and we will add more, and of course, it is open to contribution from > anyone and to different usage scenarios. The two I have implemented > are the ones we are using this week to solve three issues: (1) > improving the startup time, (2) improving the detection of deprecated > methods, (3) improving the analysis of big literal methods. I have > finished 1, the other two we are in working. > > Also, I will like to add an implementation of the work of Clement and > Sophie to generate images to stress the GC. > > If you have ideas or things to add let's share them!! > > Cheers, > Pablo > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 6:48 PM Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users > <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> Just read that announcement >> (https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2020/01/29/ann-large-image-generator/) >> on Pharo Weekly. >> >> Anyone knows more about the precise goal of that project? What is the >> exact purpose of those images and what are we trying to test? Garbage >> collection? The VM behavior under stress? Limitations of Pharo on a >> specific OS? A reference against which future versions will be >> benchmarked for performance? Iceberg and code management performance? >> How base classes react when they have to deal with millions of objects >> (e.g. a Bag with 15 million objects, forking 15000 processes, creating >> 20000 semaphores, etc) ? >> >> -- >> ----------------- >> BenoÃ®t St-Jean >> Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean >> Twitter: @BenLeChialeux >> Pinterest: benoitstjean >> Instagram: Chef_Benito >> IRC: lamneth >> GitHub: bstjean >> Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com >> "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) >> >> > -- ----------------- BenoÃ®t St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Twitter: @BenLeChialeux Pinterest: benoitstjean Instagram: Chef_Benito IRC: lamneth GitHub: bstjean Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein)

Jan. 30, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Resources Page

by Vince Refiti

Hi Come to think of it, what has happened to Claus Gittingerâs Smalltalk/X (https://www.exept.de/smalltalk-x.html) My German is feeble so I cannot understand most of it. But googling it brought me to Smalltalk/X jv-branch (https://swing.fit.cvut.cz/projects/stx-jv) That looks both interesting and open source. Vince

Jan. 30, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] sqlite garage

by Jeff Gray

Just thought I'd revisit this as it's been in the back of my mind all this time and I finally found out. Of course, the answer was there in front of me - I just had to look at the tests! If anyone else is interested the connection string has to be in the following format: 'sqlite3:///c:\sqlite3Databases\testDb.db' -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Jan. 30, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Resources Page

by Erik Stel

I think SqueakJS would be a good addition for the Open Source resources: https://squeak.js.org (Javascript based VM for running both headful and headless images both in the browser or (headless) in nodejs). And maybe Caffeine should get a mention in that same area (it uses SqueakJS): https://caffeine.js.org/ (live coding environment) Cheers, Erik -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Jan. 29, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Large Image Generator

by tesonep＠gmail.com

Hi Benoit, the main idea as always is to have better tests. We have seen that Pharo, and many users reported, that Pharo does not behaves correctly in some cases when handling large images. When I take about large images, I am talking about images with a lot of code and/or with a lot of data (yes the code for us is data... but I am just differencing because if we are testing senders / implementors we don't care about having a 10GB ByteArray). Also we have seen that for correctly testing this scenarios, we need good images, because depending the characteristics of the image it stress different parts of the system. As you correctly said we need to improve the tools (Calypso, System Navigation, Spotter, Iceberg, etc) and the infrastructure (GC, Compiler, VM in general). So we need to generate a lot of different images with different characteristics. Also, as you correctly mentioned we need to generate images with static behavior and with dynamic behavior (e.g., lots of concurrent processes). The main goal of the project is to start a recollection of existing solutions and to add new ones to generate this synthetic images. We want also to generate images that reproduce the nature of images. For example, it is not enough to generate random method selectors if we are testing the indexing of them. A good index varies its performance depending of the nature of the text. We need to generate random methods following some rules a developer whould use, for example using more a given word or using real words. So basically, we started collecting the easy algorithms to generate and we will add more, and of course, it is open to contribution from anyone and to different usage scenarios. The two I have implemented are the ones we are using this week to solve three issues: (1) improving the startup time, (2) improving the detection of deprecated methods, (3) improving the analysis of big literal methods. I have finished 1, the other two we are in working. Also, I will like to add an implementation of the work of Clement and Sophie to generate images to stress the GC. If you have ideas or things to add let's share them!! Cheers, Pablo On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 6:48 PM Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > Just read that announcement > (https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2020/01/29/ann-large-image-generator/) > on Pharo Weekly. > > Anyone knows more about the precise goal of that project? What is the > exact purpose of those images and what are we trying to test? Garbage > collection? The VM behavior under stress? Limitations of Pharo on a > specific OS? A reference against which future versions will be > benchmarked for performance? Iceberg and code management performance? > How base classes react when they have to deal with millions of objects > (e.g. a Bag with 15 million objects, forking 15000 processes, creating > 20000 semaphores, etc) ? > > -- > ----------------- > BenoÃ®t St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > Instagram: Chef_Benito > IRC: lamneth > GitHub: bstjean > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) > > -- Pablo Tesone. tesonep(a)gmail.com

Jan. 29, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Poll

by horrido

Richard Sargent wrote > On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 9:13 AM horrido < > horrido.hobbies@ > > wrote: > >> That's right. The poll is for non-Smalltalkers. The goal is to identify >> the >> pain points and then to respond to those points in a future blog post. >> > > Oh. Then you shouldn't have left out the "I don't want to write less code > and fewer errors" choice. > > >> >> >> Tim Mackinnon wrote >> > Is this a poll you expect none of us to take? >> > >> > Maybe >> > - itâs too productive and fun, real programmers should be made to >> suffer >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> >> On 29 Jan 2020, at 13:00, Esteban Maringolo < >> >> > emaringolo@ >> >> > > wrote: >> >> >> >> Final and correct option: All the above :-D >> >> >> >> Esteban A. Maringolo >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 9:40 AM Richard Kenneth Eng < >> >> > horrido.hobbies@ >> >> > > wrote: >> >>> I'm crafting a Smalltalk poll for my blog. I just wanted to get some >> >>> feedback. Have I overlooked anything? >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> > >> > image.png (87K) >> > <http://forum.world.st/attachment/5110875/0/image.png> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> >> -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Jan. 29, 2020

Large Image Generator

by Benoit St-Jean

Just read that announcement (https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2020/01/29/ann-large-image-generator/) on Pharo Weekly. Anyone knows more about the precise goal of that project?Â What is the exact purpose of those images and what are we trying to test?Â Garbage collection?Â The VM behavior under stress? Limitations of Pharo on a specific OS? A reference against which future versions will be benchmarked for performance? Iceberg and code management performance? How base classes react when they have to deal with millions of objects (e.g. a Bag with 15 million objects, forking 15000 processes, creating 20000 semaphores, etc) ? -- ----------------- BenoÃ®t St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Twitter: @BenLeChialeux Pinterest: benoitstjean Instagram: Chef_Benito IRC: lamneth GitHub: bstjean Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein)

Jan. 29, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Resources Page

by tbrunz

horrido wrote >> Another thing to consider is a section (or page) for Smalltalk demos >> (postings that demonstrate Smalltalk strengths and attractive aspects); >> you >> already have one, "Seven minutes of Pharo for Rubyists". There are many >> more... > > Perhaps you can provide a few more examples? Thanks. Here's a few: https://pavel-krivanek.github.io/pharo8/pharo.html https://pharojs.github.io/Demos/MatterJsDemo/ I like to group this one with a view of its source code: https://github.com/bouraqadi/PharoJS/blob/master/Pharo/PharoJsExamples/Phys… https://youtu.be/R2rLr7Z1b8Y https://youtu.be/baxtyeFVn3w https://youtu.be/S2ovj-mW30A -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Jan. 29, 2020