September 2019 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

by Esteban Lorenzano

I reopened while reporting the abuser (and block him). But frankly, I do not think the discussion will end in anything useful (here or there). Esteban > On 19 Sep 2019, at 14:38, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > I really liked the way the conversation was advancing on the PR before it was used to insult one of the members of the community. I don't know if closing the whole thread on the PR is only the way to keep the trolls out of it, because it also keeps everyone who is trying to make a good contribution from civilized conversation. There is another way on GitHub to only keep trolls out while making the conversation available for the ones willing to build from it? > > Cheers, > > Offray > > On 19/09/19 6:49 a. m., Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> >> >>> On 19 Sep 2019, at 12:22, PBKResearch <peter(a)pbkresearch.co.uk <mailto:peter@pbkresearch.co.uk>> wrote: >>> >>> I donât think this conversation can be closed while things are in the present unclear situation. The github entry at https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/blob/Pharo8.0/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md <https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/blob/Pharo8.0/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md> is still there, and has been there since last May. The github discussion on https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/4637 <https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/4637> was abruptly closed by Stephane Ducasse, after some intemperate comments about Serge Stinckwich. >> >> Yes it can be closed. >> As we will close ANY thread/issue/PR that directly insults one of the members of the community. >> Even more important: We can close it if thread has been highjacked by someone that has no name, no repositories, not anything that makes you think is a real member of the community or just a troll. >> >> Members can do things right or wrong, as they are human beings. But emitting opinions in the way they were emitted about what they did is a no-go. >> >> So yes, you can discuss anything you want. >> But I personally will moderate any thread that does not discusses things in a civilised way. >> >> So you have been warned :) >> >> Esteban >> >> PS: I will also remember you that the purpose of this community is to make Pharo a great development environment. >> And we are all here because we all pursue that. >> We create a software that is open source and wants to have some social value added. >> >>> This is therefore the only place questions can be asked. >>> >>> We now know that Serge posted the Code without prior discussion with the board. Did he have authority to do this on behalf of the Pharo community? Does the fact that he did so mean it is officially adopted by the community â not just for this mailing list, but for all Pharo activities? If Serge did not have authority, shouldnât it just be removed, at least until the board have discussed it? >>> >>> The PR mentioned above was a proposal by James Foster that, if we need a code of conduct, it should be the ACM code. The PR has now been closed. Does that mean that Jamesâs proposal has been rejected? If so, why? >>> >>> If the conversation is closed now, that means that we are tacitly accepting that the code is there and in force, and also tacitly accepting how it got there. What is necessary is for the board collectively, or someone representing the board, to tell us what the situation is and what is going to happen next â preferably with justifications. >>> >>> Peter Kenny >>> >>> From: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org>> On Behalf Of Steve Quezadas >>> Sent: 19 September 2019 03:35 >>> To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>> >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] R: Code of Conduct >>> >>> Yeah, I agree. Why is this even here? The thing I like about this maillist is that its very community oriented and everyone here helps each other. It's devoid of all the political-soapbox nonsense that I would find on, say, facebook. Which is why I don't deal with that platform anymore. >>> >>> And most of this is common sense anyway. Yeah, don't harass people and make fun of them or whatever, Like most people on this list doesn't already know that. Im very vocal about certain political and social opinions, am not ashamed about my opinions, am open about it, is currently "unpopular" but don't discuss them here because it's offtopic and I don't want to piss off people in any event. I don't want it turning into another facebook basically. >>> >>> I think we should all close this conversation, it's offtopic and not relevant to any problems this list has in any meaningful way. >>> >>> - Steve >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 1:07 PM Kasper Ãsterbye <kasper.osterbye(a)gmail.com <mailto:kasper.osterbye@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> When I read the Code of conduct which is part of Pharo, my reaction was "OK, I don't expect to run into trouble over that one, so no worries". >>>> >>>> After having read the discussion here I would rather it was not there. >>>> >>>> -- Kasper >>>> >>

Sept. 19, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Hi, I really liked the way the conversation was advancing on the PR before it was used to insult one of the members of the community. I don't know if closing the whole thread on the PR is only the way to keep the trolls out of it, because it also keeps everyone who is trying to make a good contribution from civilized conversation. There is another way on GitHub to only keep trolls out while making the conversation available for the ones willing to build from it? Cheers, Offray On 19/09/19 6:49 a.Â m., Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > > >> On 19 Sep 2019, at 12:22, PBKResearch <peter(a)pbkresearch.co.uk >> <mailto:peter@pbkresearch.co.uk>> wrote: >> >> I donât think this conversation can be closed while things are in the >> present unclear situation. The github entry >> atÂ https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/blob/Pharo8.0/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.mdÂ is >> still there, and has been there since last May. The github discussion >> onÂ https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/4637Â was abruptly >> closed by Stephane Ducasse, after some intemperate comments about >> Serge Stinckwich. > > Yes it can be closed.Â > As we will close ANY thread/issue/PR that directly insults one of the > members of the community.Â > Even more important: We can close it if thread has been highjacked by > someone that has no name, no repositories, not anything that makes you > think is a real member of the community or just a troll. > > Members can do things right or wrong, as they are human beings. But > emitting opinions in the way they were emitted about what they did is > a no-go.Â > > So yes, you can discuss anything you want.Â > But I personally will moderate any thread that does not discusses > things in a civilised way. > > So you have been warned :) > > Esteban > > PS: I will also remember you that the purpose of this community is to > make Pharo a great development environment.Â > And we are all here because we all pursue that. > Â We create a software that is open source and wants to have some > social value added. > >> This is therefore the only place questions can be asked. >> Â >> We now know that Serge posted the Code without prior discussion with >> the board. Did he have authority to do this on behalf of the Pharo >> community? Does the fact that he did so mean it is officially adopted >> by the community â not just for this mailing list, but for all Pharo >> activities? If Serge did not have authority, shouldnât it just be >> removed, at least until the board have discussed it? >> Â >> The PR mentioned above was a proposal by James Foster that, if we >> need a code of conduct, it should be the ACM code. The PR has now >> been closed. Does that mean that Jamesâs proposal has been rejected? >> If so, why? >> Â >> If the conversation is closed now, that means that we are tacitly >> accepting that the code is there and in force, and also tacitly >> accepting how it got there. What is necessary is for the board >> collectively, or someone representing the board, to tell us what the >> situation is and what is going to happen next â preferably with >> justifications. >> Â >> Peter KennyÂ >> Â >> *From:*Â Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org >> <mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org>>Â *On Behalf OfÂ *Steve >> Quezadas >> *Sent:*Â 19 September 2019 03:35 >> *To:*Â Any question about pharo is welcome >> <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>> >> *Subject:*Â Re: [Pharo-users] R: Code of Conduct >> Â >> Yeah, I agree. Why is this even here? The thing I like about this >> maillist is that its very community oriented and everyone here helps >> each other. It's devoid of all the political-soapbox nonsense that I >> would find on, say, facebook. Which is why I don't deal with that >> platform anymore.Â >> Â >> And most of this is common sense anyway. Yeah, don't harass people >> and make fun of them or whatever, Like most people on this list >> doesn't already know that. Im very vocal about certain political and >> social opinions, am not ashamed about my opinions, am open about it, >> is currently "unpopular" but don't discuss them here because it's >> offtopic and I don't want to piss off people in any event. I don't >> want it turning into another facebook basically.Â >> Â >> I think we should all close this conversation, it's offtopic and not >> relevant to any problems this list has in any meaningfulÂ way.Â >> Â >> - Steve >> Â >> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 1:07 PM Kasper Ãsterbye >> <kasper.osterbye(a)gmail.com <mailto:kasper.osterbye@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> When I read the Code of conduct which is part of Pharo, my reaction >>> was "OK, I don't expect to run into trouble over that one, so no >>> worries".Â Â >>> >>> After having read the discussion here I would rather it was not there. >>> >>> -- KasperÂ >>> >

Sept. 19, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

by serge.stinckwich＠gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone > On 19 Sep 2019, at 11:22, PBKResearch <peter(a)pbkresearch.co.uk> wrote: > > I donât think this conversation can be closed while things are in the present unclear situation. The github entry at https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/blob/Pharo8.0/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md is still there, and has been there since last May. The github discussion on https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/4637 was abruptly closed by Stephane Ducasse, after some intemperate comments about Serge Stinckwich. This is therefore the only place questions can be asked. > > We now know that Serge posted the Code without prior discussion with the board. Did he have authority to do this on behalf of the Pharo community? Does the fact that he did so mean it is officially adopted by the community â not just for this mailing list, but for all Pharo activities? If Serge did not have authority, shouldnât it just be removed, at least until the board have discussed it? > I didnât understand what you want to imply here ? It was a mistake from me to push this PR without prior discussion. I think that this discussion with be done at the level of the Pharo board now. > The PR mentioned above was a proposal by James Foster that, if we need a code of conduct, it should be the ACM code. The PR has now been closed. Does that mean that Jamesâs proposal has been rejected? If so, why? > > If the conversation is closed now, that means that we are tacitly accepting that the code is there and in force, and also tacitly accepting how it got there. What is necessary is for the board collectively, or someone representing the board, to tell us what the situation is and what is going to happen next â preferably with justifications. > > Peter Kenny > > From: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org> On Behalf Of Steve Quezadas > Sent: 19 September 2019 03:35 > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] R: Code of Conduct > > Yeah, I agree. Why is this even here? The thing I like about this maillist is that its very community oriented and everyone here helps each other. It's devoid of all the political-soapbox nonsense that I would find on, say, facebook. Which is why I don't deal with that platform anymore. > > And most of this is common sense anyway. Yeah, don't harass people and make fun of them or whatever, Like most people on this list doesn't already know that. Im very vocal about certain political and social opinions, am not ashamed about my opinions, am open about it, is currently "unpopular" but don't discuss them here because it's offtopic and I don't want to piss off people in any event. I don't want it turning into another facebook basically. > > I think we should all close this conversation, it's offtopic and not relevant to any problems this list has in any meaningful way. > > - Steve > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 1:07 PM Kasper Ãsterbye <kasper.osterbye(a)gmail.com> wrote: > When I read the Code of conduct which is part of Pharo, my reaction was "OK, I don't expect to run into trouble over that one, so no worries". > > After having read the discussion here I would rather it was not there. > > -- Kasper

Sept. 19, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 19 Sep 2019, at 12:22, PBKResearch <peter(a)pbkresearch.co.uk> wrote: > > I donât think this conversation can be closed while things are in the present unclear situation. The github entry at https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/blob/Pharo8.0/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md <https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/blob/Pharo8.0/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md> is still there, and has been there since last May. The github discussion on https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/4637 <https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/4637> was abruptly closed by Stephane Ducasse, after some intemperate comments about Serge Stinckwich. Yes it can be closed. As we will close ANY thread/issue/PR that directly insults one of the members of the community. Even more important: We can close it if thread has been highjacked by someone that has no name, no repositories, not anything that makes you think is a real member of the community or just a troll. Members can do things right or wrong, as they are human beings. But emitting opinions in the way they were emitted about what they did is a no-go. So yes, you can discuss anything you want. But I personally will moderate any thread that does not discusses things in a civilised way. So you have been warned :) Esteban PS: I will also remember you that the purpose of this community is to make Pharo a great development environment. And we are all here because we all pursue that. We create a software that is open source and wants to have some social value added. > This is therefore the only place questions can be asked. > > We now know that Serge posted the Code without prior discussion with the board. Did he have authority to do this on behalf of the Pharo community? Does the fact that he did so mean it is officially adopted by the community â not just for this mailing list, but for all Pharo activities? If Serge did not have authority, shouldnât it just be removed, at least until the board have discussed it? > > The PR mentioned above was a proposal by James Foster that, if we need a code of conduct, it should be the ACM code. The PR has now been closed. Does that mean that Jamesâs proposal has been rejected? If so, why? > > If the conversation is closed now, that means that we are tacitly accepting that the code is there and in force, and also tacitly accepting how it got there. What is necessary is for the board collectively, or someone representing the board, to tell us what the situation is and what is going to happen next â preferably with justifications. > > Peter Kenny > > From: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org>> On Behalf Of Steve Quezadas > Sent: 19 September 2019 03:35 > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] R: Code of Conduct > > Yeah, I agree. Why is this even here? The thing I like about this maillist is that its very community oriented and everyone here helps each other. It's devoid of all the political-soapbox nonsense that I would find on, say, facebook. Which is why I don't deal with that platform anymore. > > And most of this is common sense anyway. Yeah, don't harass people and make fun of them or whatever, Like most people on this list doesn't already know that. Im very vocal about certain political and social opinions, am not ashamed about my opinions, am open about it, is currently "unpopular" but don't discuss them here because it's offtopic and I don't want to piss off people in any event. I don't want it turning into another facebook basically. > > I think we should all close this conversation, it's offtopic and not relevant to any problems this list has in any meaningful way. > > - Steve > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 1:07 PM Kasper Ãsterbye <kasper.osterbye(a)gmail.com <mailto:kasper.osterbye@gmail.com>> wrote: >> When I read the Code of conduct which is part of Pharo, my reaction was "OK, I don't expect to run into trouble over that one, so no worries". >> >> After having read the discussion here I would rather it was not there. >> >> -- Kasper >>

Sept. 19, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

by PBKResearch

I donât think this conversation can be closed while things are in the present unclear situation. The github entry at https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/blob/Pharo8.0/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md is still there, and has been there since last May. The github discussion on https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/4637 was abruptly closed by Stephane Ducasse, after some intemperate comments about Serge Stinckwich. This is therefore the only place questions can be asked. We now know that Serge posted the Code without prior discussion with the board. Did he have authority to do this on behalf of the Pharo community? Does the fact that he did so mean it is officially adopted by the community â not just for this mailing list, but for all Pharo activities? If Serge did not have authority, shouldnât it just be removed, at least until the board have discussed it? The PR mentioned above was a proposal by James Foster that, if we need a code of conduct, it should be the ACM code. The PR has now been closed. Does that mean that Jamesâs proposal has been rejected? If so, why? If the conversation is closed now, that means that we are tacitly accepting that the code is there and in force, and also tacitly accepting how it got there. What is necessary is for the board collectively, or someone representing the board, to tell us what the situation is and what is going to happen next â preferably with justifications. Peter Kenny From: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org> On Behalf Of Steve Quezadas Sent: 19 September 2019 03:35 To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] R: Code of Conduct Yeah, I agree. Why is this even here? The thing I like about this maillist is that its very community oriented and everyone here helps each other. It's devoid of all the political-soapbox nonsense that I would find on, say, facebook. Which is why I don't deal with that platform anymore. And most of this is common sense anyway. Yeah, don't harass people and make fun of them or whatever, Like most people on this list doesn't already know that. Im very vocal about certain political and social opinions, am not ashamed about my opinions, am open about it, is currently "unpopular" but don't discuss them here because it's offtopic and I don't want to piss off people in any event. I don't want it turning into another facebook basically. I think we should all close this conversation, it's offtopic and not relevant to any problems this list has in any meaningful way. - Steve On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 1:07 PM Kasper Ãsterbye <kasper.osterbye(a)gmail.com <mailto:kasper.osterbye@gmail.com> > wrote: When I read the Code of conduct which is part of Pharo, my reaction was "OK, I don't expect to run into trouble over that one, so no worries". After having read the discussion here I would rather it was not there. -- Kasper

Sept. 19, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] My Pharo Wiki

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

Hello Julien and Sean, Thank you for sharing this, it should be more promoted. Cheers, HernÃ¡n El lun., 9 sept. 2019 a las 15:39, Julien (<julien.delplanque(a)inria.fr>) escribiÃ³: > Hello Sean, > > Nice work. :-) > > Do you know about pharo-open-documentation/pharo-wiki [1] ? > > With Cyril and Oleks, we started it to collect code snippets. > > Now that it gows bigger and people start to contribute, we try to build a > real wiki to document obscure features of Pharo. > > Tell us if you want to contribute, we would be happy of any help! :-) > > Cheers, > > Julien > > Links: > [1]: https://github.com/pharo-open-documentation/pharo-wiki > > --- > Julien Delplanque > Doctorant Ã lâUniversitÃ© de Lille > http://juliendelplanque.be/phd.html > Equipe Rmod, Inria > BÃ¢timent B 40, Avenue Halley 59650 Villeneuve d'Ascq > NumÃ©ro de tÃ©lÃ©phone: +333 59 35 86 40 > > Le 9 sept. 2019 Ã 20:18, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> a Ã©crit > : > > I've been collecting Pharo tidbits that I found interesting for quite a > while. I was aggregating everything today and realized that it had grown > into a small "cookbook" which has some useful information not otherwise > easily available. I share it in case it is of help: > > https://github.com/seandenigris/pharo/wiki > > NB it was written for my personal use so it may be rough around the edges. > Feel free to ask questions if I can clarify anything. > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > >

Sept. 19, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] R: Code of Conduct

by Steve Quezadas

Yeah, I agree. Why is this even here? The thing I like about this maillist is that its very community oriented and everyone here helps each other. It's devoid of all the political-soapbox nonsense that I would find on, say, facebook. Which is why I don't deal with that platform anymore. And most of this is common sense anyway. Yeah, don't harass people and make fun of them or whatever, Like most people on this list doesn't already know that. Im very vocal about certain political and social opinions, am not ashamed about my opinions, am open about it, is currently "unpopular" but don't discuss them here because it's offtopic and I don't want to piss off people in any event. I don't want it turning into another facebook basically. I think we should all close this conversation, it's offtopic and not relevant to any problems this list has in any meaningful way. - Steve On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 1:07 PM Kasper Ãsterbye <kasper.osterbye(a)gmail.com> wrote: > When I read the Code of conduct which is part of Pharo, my reaction was > "OK, I don't expect to run into trouble over that one, so no worries". > > After having read the discussion here I would rather it was not there. > > -- Kasper >

Sept. 19, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

by John Pfersich

+100 /ââââââââââââââââââââ/ For encrypted mail use jgpfersich(a)protonmail.com Get a free account at ProtonMail.com Web: www.objectnets.net and www.objectnets.org > On Sep 17, 2019, at 16:29, Ramon Leon <ramon.leon(a)allresnet.com> wrote: > >> On 2019-09-17 2:34 p.m., Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas wrote: >> as I say the important issue is to provide safe >> spaces via explicit or implicit rules > > I understand, I just disagree. These are of course my personal opinions, others may disagree. "Safe spaces" are bad things, not good things; the world is not a safe space, it is not the responsibility of others to provide one a feeling of safety in a an online community where people merely exchange words. Words are not dangerous, you are already safe. If you don't like what someone is saying, ignore them or mute them. Safe space a euphemism for censorship and exclusion, people who want safe spaces want to exclude other people who might express ideas or opinions that they disagree with. Safe spaces are anti-free speech zones. > > They are an attempt to prepare the world for the child rather than the child for the world; they are inherently narcissistic. Intellectual discourse is supposed to be challenging to your beliefs, you're supposed to confront ideas you might not like or agree with and people you might have a hard time getting along with. If you submit code to a technical forum you should expect criticism and debate. Technical discussions should resolve around the ideas being presented, not around the identities of those involved, and ideas should always be open to critique and debate. I don't care what one's sex or gender are or what color one's skin is or political beliefs are; those things have no place in a technical forum. I watch these groups to see discussions about technology like Pharo, Squeak, or Seaside. > > It's a rare thing to see anyone here being truly rude, there's no need for a code of conduct, it's a non solution to a non problem intended only to divide and punish for political ends. Maybe I'm just getting old, but the younger generation is far too coddled and expectant of the world to adjust to their feelings rather than learning how to deal with the world and others who have different ideas than they do. Safe spaces are bad ideas. > > -- > RamÃ³n LeÃ³n > >

Sept. 19, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] R: Code of Conduct

by Kasper Ãsterbye

When I read the Code of conduct which is part of Pharo, my reaction was "OK, I don't expect to run into trouble over that one, so no worries". After having read the discussion here I would rather it was not there. -- Kasper

Sept. 18, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] uFFI ExternalAddress challenges

by eftomi

Hi, after some more investigation the easiest way to get Win32WideString from external module is to pass it as a parameter, like in: ^self ffiCall: #( void myFunction ( Win32WideString aWin32WideString ) ) and the external module can access it directly to do r/w. There are other possibilities as well - like adapting the method Win32WideString>>#fromHandle: to translate from ExternalData to Win32WideString, creating new ExternalType, or even creating a new FFIWin32WideString. I wonder what would be the best approach :-) Best wishes, Tomaz -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Sept. 18, 2019