September 2019 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] [ANN] New Windows VM - Fixes 1903 error

by Richard O'Keefe

I understood Serge Stinkwich's question to be "at any given time, how do we know whether the VM we have is the latest one for our platform?" Certainly that was what I wanted to know. When I use the Launcher, I don't see any way to ask "is this VM I've selected up- to-date". If I click on Update, the Launcher starts an HTTP request or not, and after enough time to make me think it is downloading quite a lot, just stops. If I repeat the action, the whole process repeats. This makes me think that the Launcher is not looking to see whether there is a new version, just downloading whatever is latest at the other end. It would be nice to have an "is this image/VM up todate?" button somewhere, that just gets a few bytes of version number + checksum. On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 at 01:40, Pablo Tesone <tesonep(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Serge, > > in any Pharo Image (7 or 8) in the Option System / System Reporter > > There should be something like: > > > Cheers, > > Pablo > > > On 20/09/2019 13:24, Serge Stinckwich wrote: > > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 11:07 AM tesonep(a)gmail.com <tesonep(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hello, >> a new stable VM has been deployed. This VM uses a new version of >> libSSH allowing us to work in the latest Windows version. >> >> It can be directly updated using Pharo Launcher or downloaded using >> ZeroConf scripts. >> >> To update from Pharo Launcher you have to access to the VM Manager window. >> Just click on the marked button and then in "Update" >> [image: updateVM.png] >> >> > This great Pablo, I didn't know that there is a VM manager. > I want to save my bandwidth. > How do we know, we have the last VM ? > > > -- > Serge Stinckwic > h > > Int. Research Unit > on Modelling/Simulation of Complex Systems (UMMISCO) > Sorbonne University > (SU) > French National Research Institute for Sustainable Development (IRD) > U > niversity of YaoundÃ© I, Cameroon > "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for > machines to execute." > https://twitter.com/SergeStinckwich > >

Sept. 20, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

by Ben Coman

On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 at 01:35, Ramon Leon <ramon.leon(a)allresnet.com> wrote: > On 2019-09-20 7:44 a.m., Steve Quezadas wrote: > > Or maybe you're too easily offended and the problem lies with you. > Its all too easy for threads to drag out tit for tat. I'd be impressed to see who can take the high road to wrap this up. btw, you know why my wife always gets the last word in an argument? Because the next thing I say is the start of a new argument. > It's fairly obvious now, the Pharo leadership is occupied by left wing > progressives who are intent on bringing identity politics into the > community. Thats not the impression I get, otherwise the full Contributor Covenant would still be being rammed down your throat. The impression I get is that its easy to think the full CC is a good thing without being aware of its negative perceptions and consequences. The original PR seems to have been accepted on that basis (and maybe even submitted on that basis) The board seems to have now taken account of opposing viewpoints and determined a middle path. That seems far from being a left wing progressive. > While the new CoC is vastly better in its current state, it still insists > one the left wing political ideology of respecting people's chosen > identities as if that has any bearing at all on anything. > In a broad community like ours there will always be diverse opinions. Often the only way forward is compromise. If you are not compromising, then you are dictating, and there is no place for that on non-technical topics. A good compromise is sometimes said to be when opposing parties are **equally** dissatisfied. So if you are remain dissatisfied with the current simplified Code of Conduct, please balance how dissatisfied your nemesis would be with the result. Any calls to respect someone's identity are thinly veiled attempts to > impose objectionable left wing political language onto the community. That feels to me like an extreme interpretation. > I don't care how anyone identifies, but I'm under no obligation to play > along and > it is not disrespectful to disagree with these political beliefs. Agreed, except contending the Pharo leadership are left wing progressives and "progressives a ruining everything" is getting close... I'm saying this here because the pull request to remove the word identity > was rejected without explanation, discussion, or comment. ...when I'd guess it was more likely: * they feel what they now have is a sufficiently good compromise * the term "identity" didn't carry the same weight with them so the PR seemed frivolous * want to back to real work quick as possible * felt under no obligation to play along with every extreme viewpoint (your viewpoint is valid for you, but is at the other extreme from progressives) That said, some comment would have helped Overall I believe the board did a good job determining a middle path and want to thank them for their decisive action. I will finish by saying, going forward I hope we don't have a hair trigger sensitivity against the odd slip. That has its own consequence in not being welcoming of diverse people. We're not robots and its hard to be completely mindful all the time. Its more about pattern of behaviour. Also, if you do slip and are called out on something, take a moment to consider that others may have personal experience that makes them sensitivite. So when someone's toes are stepped on, its okay for them to say "Ow" and then both parties leave it at that. Lets get back to work. cheers -ben

Sept. 20, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

by Ramon Leon

On 2019-09-20 7:44 a.m., Steve Quezadas wrote: > Or maybe you're too easily offended and the problem lies with you. It's fairly obvious now, the Pharo leadership is occupied by left wing progressives who are intent on bringing identity politics into the community. While the new CoC is vastly better in its current state, it still insists one the left wing political ideology of respecting people's chosen identities as if that has any bearing at all on anything. * One's identity is not relevant in a technical forum. * One's code is not better because of one's identity. * One's arguments are not more sound because of one's identity. * Ones point of view are not more important because of one's identity. Any calls to respect someone's identity are thinly veiled attempts to impose objectionable left wing political language onto the community. I don't care how anyone identifies, but I'm under no obligation to play along and it is not disrespectful to disagree with these political beliefs. The maintenance of ones identity and self image is theirs to worry about, I have no obligation to support the maintenance of someone else's ego. You can identify as a pink unicorn for all I care, but no I do not have to respect that or play along. Nor will I. I'm saying this here because the pull request to remove the word identity was rejected without explanation, discussion, or comment. Progressives seem intent on ruining everything. -- RamÃ³n LeÃ³n

Sept. 20, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

by Steve Quezadas

> That wording is an insult to all people that support a leftist vision of the world. Or maybe you're too easily offended and the problem lies with you. On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 3:56 AM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > I carefully worded my reply: > > saying "I have no interest in supporting a left-wing snowflake âCode of > Conductâ. > > - is off topic > - is political > - implies a value judgement > > I tried to not reason against it, I am just saying that it has no place > here. > > > On 20 Sep 2019, at 12:30, PBKResearch <peter(a)pbkresearch.co.uk> wrote: > > > > Sven > > I think all your complaints against John Pfersich are misconceived: > > 1. He is talking about the content of the code, which is exactly the > topic of the thread. > > 2. He is claiming that the code as drafted has a political slant. This > may be true, false or a matter of opinion, but to discuss whether it is so > is not in any way introducing politics. > > 3. I see nothing in his words which makes a value judgement about > anybody. > > I see a censoriousness in your comments which is worrying. Just recently > you said, 'Guns have no place in a civilised society', which was certainly > a value judgement, specifically about John Pfersich. Please stop. > > > > Peter Kenny > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org> On Behalf Of > Sven Van Caekenberghe > > Sent: 20 September 2019 10:11 > > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct > > > > > > > >> On 20 Sep 2019, at 06:17, john pfersich <jpfersich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> I have no interest in supporting a left-wing snowflake âCode of > Conductâ. > > > > You are violating the implicit rules of engagement in this mailing list: > you are going off topic, you are using this platform to talk about politics > and you are giving value judgements about others. Please stop. > > > > > > >

Sept. 20, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] [ANN] New Windows VM - Fixes 1903 error

by Pablo Tesone

The String to look for in the VM description is like: Virtual Machine --------------- C:\Users\pablo\Documents\Pharo\vms\80-x64\Pharo.exe CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2509 uuid: 91e81f64-95de-4914-a960-8f842be3a194 Sep 13 2019 StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2509 uuid: 91e81f64-95de-4914-a960-8f842be3a194 Sep 13 2019 VM: 201907031441-pharo Guille@DESKTOP-MG6660L:projects/vm7/opensmalltalk-vm Date: Wed Jul 3 16:41:39 2019 CommitHash: 4e4c5b5a0 Plugins: 201907031441-pharo Guille@DESKTOP-MG6660L:projects/vm7/opensmalltalk-vm On 20/09/2019 14:34, Pablo Tesone wrote: > > Hi Serge, > > Â Â in any Pharo Image (7 or 8) in the Option System / System Reporter > > There should be something like: > > > Cheers, > > Pablo > > > On 20/09/2019 13:24, Serge Stinckwich wrote: >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 11:07 AM tesonep(a)gmail.com >> <mailto:tesonep@gmail.com> <tesonep(a)gmail.com >> <mailto:tesonep@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Â Â a new stable VM has been deployed. This VM uses a new version >> of libSSH allowing us to work in the latest Windows version. >> >> It can be directly updated using Pharo Launcher or downloaded >> using ZeroConf scripts. >> >> To update from Pharo Launcher you have to access to the VM >> Manager window. >> Just click on the marked button and then in "Update" >> updateVM.png >> >> >> This great Pablo, I didn't know that there is a VM manager. >> I want to save my bandwidth. >> How do we know, we have the last VM ? >> >> >> -- >> Serge Stinckwic >> h >> >> Int. Research Unit >> Â on Modelling/Simulation of Complex Systems (UMMISCO) >> Sorbonne University >> Â (SU) >> French National Research Institute for Sustainable Development (IRD) >> U >> niversity of YaoundÃ© I, Cameroon >> "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally >> for machines to execute." >> https://twitter.com/SergeStinckwich >>

Sept. 20, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] [ANN] New Windows VM - Fixes 1903 error

by Pablo Tesone

Hi Serge, Â Â in any Pharo Image (7 or 8) in the Option System / System Reporter There should be something like: Cheers, Pablo On 20/09/2019 13:24, Serge Stinckwich wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 11:07 AM tesonep(a)gmail.com > <mailto:tesonep@gmail.com> <tesonep(a)gmail.com > <mailto:tesonep@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Hello, > Â Â a new stable VM has been deployed. This VM uses a new version > of libSSH allowing us to work in the latest Windows version. > > It can be directly updated using Pharo Launcher or downloaded > using ZeroConf scripts. > > To update from Pharo Launcher you have to access to the VM Manager > window. > Just click on the marked button and then in "Update" > updateVM.png > > > This great Pablo, I didn't know that there is a VM manager. > I want to save my bandwidth. > How do we know, we have the last VM ? > > > -- > Serge Stinckwic > h > > Int. Research Unit > Â on Modelling/Simulation of Complex Systems (UMMISCO) > Sorbonne University > Â (SU) > French National Research Institute for Sustainable Development (IRD) > U > niversity of YaoundÃ© I, Cameroon > "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally > for machines to execute." > https://twitter.com/SergeStinckwich >

Sept. 20, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] New non-critical project - which Pharo to use?

by sergio ruiz

Iâll check.. > On Sep 20, 2019, at 4:07 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > > Hi sergio, > > Teapot tests are red in P8 - havent checked yet why ---- peace, sergio photographer, journalist, visionary Public Key: http://bit.ly/29z9fG0 #BitMessage BM-NBaswViL21xqgg9STRJjaJaUoyiNe2dV @sergio_101@mastodon.social https://sergio101.com http://www.codeandmusic.com http://www.twitter.com/sergio_101 http://www.facebook.com/sergio101

Sept. 20, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] [ANN] New Windows VM - Fixes 1903 error

by Serge Stinckwich

On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 11:07 AM tesonep(a)gmail.com <tesonep(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > a new stable VM has been deployed. This VM uses a new version of > libSSH allowing us to work in the latest Windows version. > > It can be directly updated using Pharo Launcher or downloaded using > ZeroConf scripts. > > To update from Pharo Launcher you have to access to the VM Manager window. > Just click on the marked button and then in "Update" > [image: updateVM.png] > > This great Pablo, I didn't know that there is a VM manager. I want to save my bandwidth. How do we know, we have the last VM ? -- Serge Stinckwic h Int. Research Unit on Modelling/Simulation of Complex Systems (UMMISCO) Sorbonne University (SU) French National Research Institute for Sustainable Development (IRD) U niversity of YaoundÃ© I, Cameroon "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute." https://twitter.com/SergeStinckwich

Sept. 20, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

by Cyril Ferlicot

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 9:21 PM Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello, > > Iâm talking on behalf of the Pharo Board here. > As start, we accepted Sergeâs proposition without actually discussing it much because we didnât think it was going to be really a problem. Our community has been self-regulating since the beginning and we were doing it fine until now. Once or twice we (the board) needed to act, but never had a real situation as the ones the CoC tries to cover. > So, we can say we opened the umbrella without rain, just in case. > > Now, after observe the situation, we have decided to retract the code. But sadly, we cannot just remove it and let things continue as before because as itâs know âit you open a can or worms, you will need a bigger can to put them back inâ. Which means now we need a code of conduct. > > So we are going to take the simplest one we could find that still can serve our community, you can see it here: > > https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/4660 > > This PR will be accepted, but as anything in our community, you can still discuss it and propose modifications. > Just remember be respectful of people disagreeing with your ideas :) > > Cheers, > Esteban > > PS: As personal note: I blocked a github user that insulted a member of our community, a user who did not had history with us (or any other visible project), who did not had a name or ways to contact him so I assumed it was just another troll. Now, he identifies himself here... I will unblock him, but that does not means the kind of disrespectful messages he sent can be sent :) > > Hi, Thank you for taking care of this. I find this CoC better than the previous one but there is one point that I would like to discuss. > Â«removing issues, comments, and PRs or blocking accounts as deemed appropriate.Â» I am not sure that removing completly the content is good. I already saw communities using this as a way of moderating content and it caused two unwanted consequences: - The moderators deleted abusivly contents saying it did not respect the CoC without letting the person explain itself or discuting if if was a real disrespect of the CoC - The people getting their post removed used that to act as a martyr since the proof of their disrespect vanished and since they say they are victim of censure. I am the most worried about the second consequence. I solution adopted by some communities is to remove the messages from the original source to not promote disrespect, but keep a version in a "Moderated content" section. For the Pharo community we could for example have a github repository, or a folder files.pharo.org or any other public solution called "Moderated content" were we could save the screens of the removed comments. This would act as proof of the disespect and prevent the apparition of martyrs. What do you think about this? -- Cyril Ferlicot https://ferlicot.fr

Sept. 20, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

by Esteban Lorenzano

You are wrong. You can favour or be against a code of conduct. You can have any judgement about the community and how the community work/should work. You can leave or you can stay in places that matches 100% or just partially your ideology. What you cannot do is to bash people because they think differently. And that phrase was meant to bash an ideology, not to argument against the CoC. So yes, he is out of place. > On 20 Sep 2019, at 12:30, PBKResearch <peter(a)pbkresearch.co.uk> wrote: > > Sven > I think all your complaints against John Pfersich are misconceived: > 1. He is talking about the content of the code, which is exactly the topic of the thread. Yes, and he is insulting the people sustaining it. > 2. He is claiming that the code as drafted has a political slant. This may be true, false or a matter of opinion, but to discuss whether it is so is not in any way introducing politics. introducing it as a negative fact is misleading. Also it was phrased in a way that despise others. > 3. I see nothing in his words which makes a value judgement about anybody. Then I recommend you to read again more carefully: - That wording is an insult to all people that support a leftist vision of the world. - That wording bashes a position without argument (is bad because is from the left). > I see a censoriousness in your comments which is worrying. Just recently you said, 'Guns have no place in a civilised society', which was certainly a value judgement, specifically about John Pfersich. Please stop. Using some older discussion as a way to create arguments into a new discussion is called âfallacy ad hominemâ and is not a good way to defend your arguments. So, I ask you: Please stop. Esteban > > Peter Kenny > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org> On Behalf Of Sven Van Caekenberghe > Sent: 20 September 2019 10:11 > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct > > > >> On 20 Sep 2019, at 06:17, john pfersich <jpfersich(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I have no interest in supporting a left-wing snowflake âCode of Conductâ. > > You are violating the implicit rules of engagement in this mailing list: you are going off topic, you are using this platform to talk about politics and you are giving value judgements about others. Please stop. > >

Sept. 20, 2019