September 2019 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] pharo for ios and android

by Ben Coman

On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 at 09:34, Steve Quezadas <steveeq1(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I am going to the portland meetup this october and I noticed that one of > the items listed is "Smalltalk on iOS and Android" which intrigues me. Is > some Guilfoyle-type here writing a VM for these platforms? I was joking > with a friend that we should write a vm for ios using the "smalltalk blue > book" and it would be fun to learn how vm's work by trying to write > sometihng for ios. Is someone already working on this? > It is not mainstream, but has been done by some individuals... http://forum.world.st/Ann-Stack-Android-VM-td4919869.html http://forum.world.st/Xcode-projects-for-VM-on-iOS-or-Mac-td5087786.html <http://forum.world.st/Xcode-projects-for-VM-on-iOS-or-Mac-td5087786.html#a5…> One thing to be aware of is that the VM for these platform doesn't come with JIT. The other is that these platforms are strongly weighted towards event-driven coding style and the VM currently is not event driven. This has an impact on battery life, and may bump up against rules that terminate a long running process (my understanding of this is limited). Pharo 8's headless-VM opens up some possibilities towards creating an event-driven VM, but I'm not aware of any immediate plans to do that. cheers -ben

Sept. 21, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

by Hilaire

Le 19/09/2019 Ã 21:20, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©critÂ : > > So we are going to take the simplest one we could find that still can > serve our community, you can see it here:Â > > https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/4660 > Hello, Given the heat up on the ml, I took a look on the PR. It looks honest and simple for but... ...I am really surprised -- worried will be more accurate ! -- by the second part of this sentence[1]. I think it is even dangerous! What is happening outside of the Pharo community should not be ruled by the 'WE'. The 'WE' is not the universal moral police or justice. If you think a bit about the Richard Stallman event, he was forced to withdraw of the Free Software Foundation because comments he made in a mailing list not related to FSF. He wrote his email contents were misinterpreted (and we know it happens often) and used against him. Whatever it is true or not, I don't see why you should be socially banned (or socially killed) from one place (or more like all place) because of what happen in another place. This kind of important decision can only be taken by the justice where all matter are taken in consideration. Imagine one of you kicked out of Pharo community because you loose your mind in another channel? It makes me feel a bit like the Aldous Huxley world. [1] /We will not tolerate harassment from anyone in the Pharo community, even outside of Pharoâs public communication channels./ Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Sept. 21, 2019

pharo for ios and android

by Steve Quezadas

I am going to the portland meetup this october and I noticed that one of the items listed is "Smalltalk on iOS and Android" which intrigues me. Is some Guilfoyle-type here writing a VM for these platforms? I was joking with a friend that we should write a vm for ios using the "smalltalk blue book" and it would be fun to learn how vm's work by trying to write sometihng for ios. Is someone already working on this? - Steve

Sept. 21, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

by Steve Quezadas

FYI, Richard Stallman got "cancelled" out of his life's work because some silly side-comment trigged some "woke" individual out there. In the real world, covenants are often used as an excuse to silence someone with an implicit threat because he said something that someone didn't want to hear, whatever that may be. This list was fine without it, we don't have any problems, just replace it with "keep the subject matter on pharo, anything else is off-topic" On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 3:11 PM Ramon Leon <ramon.leon(a)allresnet.com> wrote: > On 2019-09-20 3:03 p.m., Steve Quezadas wrote: > > I think the "covenant" should be a single line: "keep the subject matter > on > > pharo, anything else is off-topic". > > > > This list should be politically neutral. > > I agree. The leadership apparently does not, left wing social justice > identity politics is now embedded into the community rules. Guess we'll see > what happens when outsiders start trying to use it to cancel people as is > happening just about everywhere these CoC's are introduced. > > -- > RamÃ³n LeÃ³n > > >

Sept. 21, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Hi, For me is kind of curious how all this discussion on the Code of Conduct has showed some hidden assumptions. For example, it seems that having one and mentioning identity in it shows from a left wing progressive agenda, but not having any or not talking about identity doesn't show a... "right wing regressive agenda", is just normal. Also the hidden agendas when identity is mentioned are for the Pharo Community, no for the ACM or hundreds of technical communities out there that exist decades ago and even have the word "identity" before the times when there is a direct causal relation between such world and hidden agendas. Technology and code exist "ex nihilo", without any context to be considered. I would like that the immigration guards think the same, any time I go to a technical conference and I almost always get the totally random and "lucky" extra line because my Colombian password and the eventual "joke" about Pablo Escobar from some people at immigration. Fortunately my code talks for me because is just a technical community meeting in another country and this extra immigration time and paperwork is just in my imagination in this neutral and apolitical world where technology is developed. Ohh and funding and free time for development, is so not related on where are you located. Ethnicity is just a happy accident that has no relation with identity. After my argumentation by counter example, is good to see that some other people is willing to compromise, and think outside their own (privileged?) position. I don't want my code to be accepted because of my passport, but I don't think neither that code exists ex nihilo, as experience have showed me how context influences the time/resources I can put behind my code and participation in community spaces. I think that a community that recognizes diversity and is willing to compromise is being showed in the CoC construction process: I like the way the original punitive tone was replaced with a specific suggestion giving opportunity for both sides, how this was taken into account by the board and the feedback was constructive in the PR and its acceptance. Cheers, Offray On 20/09/19 12:34 p.Â m., Ramon Leon wrote: > On 2019-09-20 7:44 a.m., Steve Quezadas wrote: >> Or maybe you're too easily offended and the problem lies with you. > > It's fairly obvious now, the Pharo leadership is occupied by left wing > progressives who are intent on bringing identity politics into the > community. While the new CoC is vastly better in its current state, it > still insists one the left wing political ideology of respecting > people's chosen identities as if that has any bearing at all on anything. > > * One's identity is not relevant in a technical forum. > * One's code is not better because of one's identity. > * One's arguments are not more sound because of one's identity. > * Ones point of view are not more important because of one's identity. > > Any calls to respect someone's identity are thinly veiled attempts to > impose objectionable left wing political language onto the community. > I don't care how anyone identifies, but I'm under no obligation to > play along and it is not disrespectful to disagree with these > political beliefs. The maintenance of ones identity and self image is > theirs to worry about, I have no obligation to support the maintenance > of someone else's ego. You can identify as a pink unicorn for all I > care, but no I do not have to respect that or play along.Â Nor will I. > > I'm saying this here because the pull request to remove the word > identity was rejected without explanation, discussion, or comment. > Progressives seem intent on ruining everything. >

Sept. 20, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

by Ramon Leon

On 2019-09-20 3:03 p.m., Steve Quezadas wrote: > I think the "covenant" should be a single line: "keep the subject matter on > pharo, anything else is off-topic". > > This list should be politically neutral. I agree. The leadership apparently does not, left wing social justice identity politics is now embedded into the community rules. Guess we'll see what happens when outsiders start trying to use it to cancel people as is happening just about everywhere these CoC's are introduced. -- RamÃ³n LeÃ³n

Sept. 20, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

by Steve Quezadas

I think the "covenant" should be a single line: "keep the subject matter on pharo, anything else is off-topic". This list should be politically neutral. I personally hate politics because neither side ever gets the other side to "see the light". It's a religous argument basically. The problem is is that people tend to believe whatever everyone else believes in their particular culture/time and you get this militant ideology based out of it. And that's fine and dandy, but it has no place here. The reason I come here is of the helpful community full of bright programmers who are using the right paradigms of thought. - Steve On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 2:59 PM Ramon Leon <ramon.leon(a)allresnet.com> wrote: > On 2019-09-20 12:33 p.m., Ben Coman wrote: > > A fair response Ben. > > > A good compromise is sometimes said to be when opposing parties are> > **equally** dissatisfied. > > The new version is much better, I believe I said that. James and Norbert > made some final and excellent changes that mostly fixed what was wrong and > removed the overreach and the lack of due process. > > > That feels to me like an extreme interpretation. > > It's not, identity politics are left wing politics and putting them in the > CoC is absolutely imposing them on the community. I guess we'll see how it > goes. > > -- > RamÃ³n LeÃ³n > > >

Sept. 20, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Where did all the Comments Go?

by Andrew Black

To try and make some progress, I copied a working image from another machine. On startup (on MacOS 10.14.6) I get this walkback: File class(ProtoObject)>>primitiveFailed: File class(ProtoObject)>>primitiveFailed File class>>fileDescriptorType: File class>>fileDescriptorIsAvailable: Stdio class>>standardIOStreamNamed:forWrite: Stdio class>>stdout VTermOutputDriver class>>stdout BasicCommandLineHandler(CommandLineHandler)>>initializeStdout BasicCommandLineHandler(CommandLineHandler)>>initialize BasicCommandLineHandler>>initialize BasicCommandLineHandler class(Behavior)>>new [ self new activate ] in BasicCommandLineHandler class>>startUp: in Block: [ self new activate ] BlockClosure>>cull: WorkingSession>>executeDeferredStartupActions: WorkingSession>>runStartup: WorkingSession>>start: SessionManager>>launchSnapshot:andQuit: [ isImageStarting := self launchSnapshot: save andQuit: quit. wait signal ] in SessionManager>>snapshot:andQuit: in Block: [ isImageStarting := self launchSnapshot: save and...etc... [ self value. Processor terminateActive ] in BlockClosure>>newProcess in Block: [ self value.... > On 19 Sep 2019, at 17:43 , Andrew Black <apblack(a)pdx.edu> wrote: > > Iâm coming back to Pharo after not having used it for several months. Iâm pleased to see that Pharo 7 is now stable and that work has started on Pharo 8. > > I downloaded a new Pharo Launcher (the old one could no longer figure out which version of the VM to use), used the Launcher to create a Pharo 7.0 stable image, and started loading my packages into it from github. > > My attempt to install the baseline of my code failed when some initialization code could not get the definitionComment for my parser (which is written using SmaCC). Normally, SmaCC stores oneâs whole grammar _as a method comment_ in a method called definitionComment. Oddly, this method was empty, even though the version on disk (in the file Grace-Parser.package/GraceParser.class/class/definitionComment.st) contained the comment, as I expected. > > Hoping to at least complete the installation of my code, I manually copied the comment from this file into Calypso and saved the method. It looked fine, but as soon as I moved Calypso to another method, and then back again, the comment had disappeared. I experimented with adding comments to other methods: they looked fine, and I could save the method, but if I moved to another method and then back, the comment had disappeared. > > Class comments have also disappeared. > > I donât think that this is a Calypso problem, because the loading of code from git would not involve Calypso. Rather it is a code storage problem. I saw a File System primitive failure when I launched my new image, but ignored it; Iâm guessing that the comments disappear because they are only in the file system, whereas the code is in memory. And for some reason I canât access the sources file? The changes file ahs been created as expected. > > I just tried downloading the VM manually, and running the âstableâ image that I created, and this time got a different file system primitive failure on startup: #createDirectory in MacStore. > > Whatâs going on? Whatâs the right way to get a working Pharo in the New World Order? > > Andrew > ____________________________ Prof. Andrew P. Black Department of Computer Science Portland State University Oregon, USA http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~black Telephone: +1 503 725 2411

Sept. 20, 2019

Where did all the Comments Go?

by Andrew Black

My third attempt to post this ... Iâm coming back to Pharo after not having used it for several months. Iâm pleased to see that Pharo 7 is now stable and that work has started on Pharo 8. I downloaded a new Pharo Launcher (the old one could no longer figure out which version of the VM to use), used the Launcher to create a Pharo 7.0 stable image, and started loading my packages into it from github. My attempt to install the baseline of my code failed when some initialization code could not get the definitionComment for my parser (which is written using SmaCC). Normally, SmaCC stores oneâs whole grammar _as a method comment_ in a method called definitionComment. Oddly, this method was empty, even though the version on disk (in the file Grace-Parser.package/GraceParser.class/class/definitionComment.st) contained the comment, as I expected. Hoping to at least complete the installation of my code, I manually copied the comment from this file into Calypso and saved the method. It looked fine, but as soon as I moved Calypso to another method, and then back again, the comment had disappeared. I experimented with adding comments to other methods: they looked fine, and I could save the method, but if I moved to another method and then back, the comment had disappeared. Class comments have also disappeared. I donât think that this is a Calypso problem, because the loading of code from git would not involve Calypso. Rather it is a code storage problem. I saw a File System primitive failure when I launched my new image, but ignored it; Iâm guessing that the comments disappear because they are only in the file system, whereas the code is in memory. And for some reason I canât access the sources file? The changes file ahs been created as expected. I just tried downloading the VM manually, and running the âstableâ image that I created, and this time got a different file system primitive failure on startup: #createDirectory in MacStore. Whatâs going on? Whatâs the right way to get a working Pharo in the New World Order? Andrew

Sept. 20, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

by Ramon Leon

On 2019-09-20 12:33 p.m., Ben Coman wrote: A fair response Ben. > A good compromise is sometimes said to be when opposing parties are> **equally** dissatisfied. The new version is much better, I believe I said that. James and Norbert made some final and excellent changes that mostly fixed what was wrong and removed the overreach and the lack of due process. > That feels to me like an extreme interpretation. It's not, identity politics are left wing politics and putting them in the CoC is absolutely imposing them on the community. I guess we'll see how it goes. -- RamÃ³n LeÃ³n

Sept. 20, 2019