October 2019 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: How to install stripe library on Pharo 7 64bit ?

by jmathews

OK, did some more testing and here are the results. Pharo 7 - Image hangs when loading Zinc HTTP Components. I tried loading Zinc HTTP Components separately through Metacello with the same results so I don't think the problem is with your code. Pharo 8 - Stripe Loads fine, - 22/29 Stripe tests fail (On debug it says that StripeSystem class does not understand #baseUrl message) - Seaside not launched & can't right click Seaside Control Panel to start server (Fixed by reloading Seaside3 from Metacello.) - Stripe example apps (stripe & stripe-form) crash (Seaside Walkback Error: Instances of UndefinedObject are not indexable) -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Oct. 11, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] voyage mongo and transactionality

by Jonathan van Alteren

Hi Peter, Thanks for elaborating. I found the thread on the Pharo users list and looked at Esteban's repository. I'm hesitant to spend much time on it, since that is my scarcest resource at the moment. You can try forking Esteban's repository and committing your modifications there. Then you can give them back to Esteban by doing a pull request. Kind regards, Jonathan van Alteren Founding Member | Object Guild jvalteren(a)objectguild.com On 10 Oct 2019, 18:14 +0200, PBKResearch <peter(a)pbkresearch.co.uk>, wrote: > Hi Jonathan > > If you are interested in OmniBase on Pharo, there was a port by Sebastian Sastre in about 2010, which was forked and updated by Esteban Lorenzano in June 2018 (https://github.com/estebanlm/OmniBase) There were a few bugs in the port, which were sorted out by Matias Maretto, marco(a)omeleon.de and myself. I have all these corrections in my local repo, but they have never been ported back to Estebanâs github repo, because I donât know how to do it. So do not use Estebanâs repo until updated. > Estebanâs port was for Pharo 6, and in the case of marco and me was only tried on 32 bits. If you decided to install on 64-bit Pharo 7, you would be on new territory. The only problems are likely to be interactions with the file system. As a quick test, I installed Omnibase and tests in 32-bit Pharo 7. One test (#testBTreeKeyLocking) was red, all the rest green â I have not yet traced the cause. > The biggest problem is likely to be documentation. I have tried only the simplest uses, because that is all I can work out from the slide-show notes. Maybe someone else who has used it more extensively might still have fuller documentation â e.g. Bruno, who also contributed to this thread. > > Peter Kenny > > > > From: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org> On Behalf Of Jonathan van Alteren > Sent: 10 October 2019 11:39 > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] voyage mongo and transactionality > > Hi Peter, > > Thanks for your reply. > > That sounds very interesting. For similar reasons, I tried to check out Magma. However, since I'm still a novice in Pharo/Smalltalk and it's not very well documented (and mostly refers to Squeak), it's quite painful to figure out how it works and how to get it going in Pharo. Not to mention actually using it in production for an 'enterprise' application for an actual customer... I haven't given that up yet, but currently don't have the time. > > I will look into OmniBase. Anything you're willing to share about getting it up and running (in Pharo 7.0 64-bit) is greatly appreciated! > > > Kind regards, > > Jonathan van Alteren > > Founding Member | Object Guild > jvalteren(a)objectguild.com > On 9 Oct 2019, 20:34 +0200, PBKResearch <peter(a)pbkresearch.co.uk>, wrote: > > > It may be irrelevant, but I have been playing recently with OmniBase, which is a fully object-oriented database system, now over 20 years old, but it still works very well for my uses. David GoriÅ¡ek, the author, claims that it has ACID properties. From my reading, updates operate on a proxy object, which is not written to the database until an explicit commit is given. A second transaction accessing the same object will still see the original until the change is committed. What happens to a proxy which is never committed is not clear, but if GoriÅ¡ek is right, the stored data can never be contaminated. I think a proxy in this sense is equivalent to a memento. > > > > Thanks to Esteban Lorenzano, OmniBase is now available on Pharo. The code is ancient, there is no documentation and obviously no support, but it might be worth while for someone to try some software archaeology and put it to use. I have found it possible to create and maintain a small database of natural language information, and access is fairly quick and easy â and itâs all Smalltalk. > > It claims to store all kinds of Smalltalk objects, except block closures, and skimming through the code it seems to incorporate a serializer similar to Fuel. > > > > The only documentation I have found is a slideshow at https://www.slideshare.net/esug/omni-baseobjectdatabase. I have found out a few things about it, if anyone is interested. > > > > Peter Kenny > > > > > > From: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org> On Behalf Of Norbert Hartl > > Sent: 09 October 2019 18:08 > > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] voyage mongo and transactionality > > > > > > > > Am 09.10.2019 um 16:48 schrieb "jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de" <jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de>: > > > > > > This is a tricky mine field. Sometimes you need a lot of business functionality in objects referenced in your objects that are currently in the editor. So I'm still to see a project in which the memento pattern really worked for more complex scenarios. How deep do you dive to have enough memento objects to provide the functionality needed. I guess you can do that with some sort of object-level transaction framework that automatically creates mementos of whatever object is being navigated to during some kind of processing-context. I guess slots could be of use here. But this is not trivial for general cases. > > > > Yes it is tricky. You can have copies of business objects but you have always references to the business objects not pointing to the copy. > > And you need to know which objects should be tracked. In Gemstone IIRC it is easy as it is the time the object is copied from the stone to the gem it is registered in the current transaction. So you can check it and committing if it changed because you have to write it back. The important point here might be get noticed when a reference is acquired. In pharo it is not that easy but could be done if object would be reified and interceptable. > > > In my experience, this problem area makes for the other 70% of the time spent on developing GUI or Web applications, besides the 60% for GUI design and implementation and 25% business logic... > > 70% + 60% + 25% + 30% = 185% > > > > sounds indeed very realistic if it comes to project planning. ðThere is even a rule saying that for the first 90% of the project you need the first 90% of time and for the last 10% of the project you need the second 90% of time. > > > I'd be interested to learn about patterns to handle such more complex things. We constantly travel back and forth between implementing stuff in the GUI handlers (copying values to the GUI classes that access themselves during GUI operations and push values to the business objects when the users clicks on OK), using mementos (which most of the times are nets of mementos that are created manually - "we know what we'll touch in this Editor") and operating on business objects directly and relying on the persistence mechanism (Glorp in our case) and its rollback behaviour. All three have lots of weaknesses and seem to have their place nevertheless. > > > So this is a very interesting discussion and I think this is an area that has not been solved yet. > > I think it isnât solved and I find every piece of information about it very interesting. > > > > Norbert > > > Joachim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 09.10.19 um 16:25 schrieb James Foster: > > > > Thanks for the explanation. And, yes, this is an artifact of your design; if you put intermediate values into domain objects then they will remain in your domain objects to be seen later. From what youâve described, I donât see how it would be any different in a non-image environment (Java, C#, etc.), unless you re-read the entire object graph from the database. As someone else mentioned, this would be a good place for the Memento Pattern. > > > > > > > > James > > > > > > > > > On Oct 9, 2019, at 1:59 AM, Jonathan van Alteren <jvalteren(a)objectguild.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi James, > > > > > > > > > > I see how my explanation might be unclear. > > > > > > > > > > We have a main form for the agenda and a subform for an item, which is shown using Seaside call/answer. The save button of the subform is clicked, which adds the item to the underlying agenda model object, but the save button of the main form is notÂ clicked by the user. The callback for the main save button sends the save message to the agenda object, causing the database to be updated. > > > > > > > > > > So yes, the browser does submit the data on the subform, it's the main form component that doesn't receive the save button callback. I realize that this is in large part an issue with our design. However, the way object persistence seems to work in the image environment plays a large role. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > > > Jonathan van Alteren > > > > > > > > > > Founding Member | Object Guild > > > > > jvalteren(a)objectguild.com > > > > > On 8 Oct 2019, 15:41 +0200, James Foster <Smalltalk(a)jgfoster.net>, wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 8, 2019, at 3:05 AM, Jonathan van Alteren <jvalteren(a)objectguild.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We've encountered an issue where a user makes changes to an agenda, but does not click the Save button. Instead, the user closes the browser or uses the navigation to go to a different part of the application. When navigating back to the original agenda, the changes made previously (e.g. items added) are still being displayed, even though they were never explicitly saved. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is what I donât understand: how did the change get from the userâs client agent (browser) to the server? If you make a change to a field in a form and then close the browser, who sent the change to the server? If you show the save domain value in a different location, with a dynamically-generated id and name (so it isnât cached in the browser), or written to the Pharo Transcript, does the value still change? That is, are you sure that the change is in the reflected in the Smalltalk image and not just somehow cached in the browser? > > > > > > > > > > > > James > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de > > > Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de > > > D-71640 Ludwigsburg http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com > > > Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1

Oct. 11, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Running a teapot instance remotely

by Tim Mackinnon

If your question is aimed more at deploying on a server - itâs standard practice for applications (java, python, ruby etc) to have a watcher that will restart your app if it terminates/crashes - Pharo is no different. This mechanism serves well If a C primitive fails, or your server terminates it for some reason - and the watcher (or even a bash loop), will just restart it. These days however, others have pointed out that weâre moving into a Docker world where that bit is taken care of with that infrastructure (I think you need an endpoint to monitor your app with, and which reminds me to revisit this with Pharo as the costs have come down I think). Still, monit or equivalent on an Ocean server is $5/m which is darn good value. (You can probably run several small apps with that too). Tim Sent from my iPhone Sent from my iPhone > On 11 Oct 2019, at 07:08, "jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de" <jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> wrote: > > Vince, > > I guess this has its roots in long-ongoing discussions about the anticipated disadvantages of image-based development in general. It tries to explain that Smalltalk has mechanisms for recovering code after an image crashes. It is not indicating that images do actually crash more often than other development environments. It is more a remark about the fact that of course even Smalltalk can crash and that there is a mechanism (namely the changes file and changes browsers) for restoring your code after a crash, even if you didn't file-out your code or didn't push it to an external repository. Nothing more, nothing less. > > So please don't read this as: "Since Pharo/Smalltalk isn't stable, we had to xyz" - this is not the case. I've been using Smalltalk (mostly not Pharo) for more than 25 years and I can only remember having a need to recover source code maybe a hand full of times. In my favorite Smalltalk (VA Smalltalk), I am almost 100% sure I never had this issue because Envy is exactly the measure that is mentioned in the sentence you cited. > > Joachim > >> Am 11.10.19 um 07:39 schrieb Vince Refiti: >> Hi >> >> This brings up some questions I have been meaning to ask for some time. The sentence "When the Pharo image crashes (which will happen), there must be a way to automatically recover from this crash." appears in the Enterprise Pharo Book. >> >> Does this claim still apply? Is Pharo that unstable still? >> >> If it is, what are the major causes in your own applications that crash it? I have run a few small, local, experimental Teapot, Seaside and other Pharo server apps and nothing crashed, but reading something like that makes me nervous about public-facing server apps in Pharo. >> >> Vince >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Pierce Ng >> Sent: Friday, 11 October 2019 12:39 PM >> To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Running a teapot instance remotely >> >> EXTERNAL: Do not click links or open attachments if you do not recognize the sender. >> >>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 04:18:14PM -0400, sergio ruiz wrote: >>> How are people keeping it running these days? >> I used to use daemontools. These days I use Docker. >> >> Pierce > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de > Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de > D-71640 Ludwigsburg http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com > Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1 > > >

Oct. 11, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Running a teapot instance remotely

by jtuchel＠objektfabrik.de

Vince, I guess this has its roots in long-ongoing discussions about the anticipated disadvantages of image-based development in general. It tries to explain that Smalltalk has mechanisms for recovering code after an image crashes. It is not indicating that images do actually crash more often than other development environments. It is more a remark about the fact that of course even Smalltalk can crash and that there is a mechanism (namely the changes file and changes browsers) for restoring your code after a crash, even if you didn't file-out your code or didn't push it to an external repository. Nothing more, nothing less. So please don't read this as: "Since Pharo/Smalltalk isn't stable, we had to xyz" - this is not the case. I've been using Smalltalk (mostly not Pharo) for more than 25 years and I can only remember having a need to recover source code maybe a hand full of times. In my favorite Smalltalk (VA Smalltalk), I am almost 100% sure I never had this issue because Envy is exactly the measure that is mentioned in the sentence you cited. Joachim Am 11.10.19 um 07:39 schrieb Vince Refiti: > Hi > > This brings up some questions I have been meaning to ask for some time. The sentence "When the Pharo image crashes (which will happen), there must be a way to automatically recover from this crash." appears in the Enterprise Pharo Book. > > Does this claim still apply? Is Pharo that unstable still? > > If it is, what are the major causes in your own applications that crash it? I have run a few small, local, experimental Teapot, Seaside and other Pharo server apps and nothing crashed, but reading something like that makes me nervous about public-facing server apps in Pharo. > > Vince > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Pierce Ng > Sent: Friday, 11 October 2019 12:39 PM > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Running a teapot instance remotely > > EXTERNAL: Do not click links or open attachments if you do not recognize the sender. > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 04:18:14PM -0400, sergio ruiz wrote: >> How are people keeping it running these days? > I used to use daemontools. These days I use Docker. > > Pierce > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de D-71640 Ludwigsburg http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1

Oct. 11, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Running a teapot instance remotely

by Vince Refiti

Hi This brings up some questions I have been meaning to ask for some time. The sentence "When the Pharo image crashes (which will happen), there must be a way to automatically recover from this crash." appears in the Enterprise Pharo Book. Does this claim still apply? Is Pharo that unstable still? If it is, what are the major causes in your own applications that crash it? I have run a few small, local, experimental Teapot, Seaside and other Pharo server apps and nothing crashed, but reading something like that makes me nervous about public-facing server apps in Pharo. Vince -----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Pierce Ng Sent: Friday, 11 October 2019 12:39 PM To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Running a teapot instance remotely EXTERNAL: Do not click links or open attachments if you do not recognize the sender. On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 04:18:14PM -0400, sergio ruiz wrote: > How are people keeping it running these days? I used to use daemontools. These days I use Docker. Pierce

Oct. 11, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Running a teapot instance remotely

by Pierce Ng

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 04:18:14PM -0400, sergio ruiz wrote: > How are people keeping it running these days? I used to use daemontools. These days I use Docker. Pierce

Oct. 11, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Running a teapot instance remotely

by Paul DeBruicker

I use daemontools. Some people use Monit. Sven made these for Pharo4 on Ubuntu 14.04 when Pharo was only 32 bit: https://github.com/svenvc/pharo-server-tools I'm sure you could edit those scripts to work for 64bit Pharo 7/8 on 64 bit linux And there is this chapter about deploying apps to production https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/EnterprisePharoBook/lastSuccessf… sergio_101 wrote > This worked perfectly! > > To keep this running, I am running it in tux, so it will keep running when > I log out. > > How are people keeping it running these days? > > Thanks! > > >> On Oct 10, 2019, at 3:46 PM, Tim Mackinnon < > tim@ > > wrote: >> >> Sergio - looking at the last time I did this, my run script did: >> >> >> >> > > ---- > peace, > sergio > photographer, journalist, visionary > > Public Key: http://bit.ly/29z9fG0 > #BitMessage BM-NBaswViL21xqgg9STRJjaJaUoyiNe2dV > @ > sergio_101@ > https://sergio101.com > http://www.codeandmusic.com > http://www.twitter.com/sergio_101 > http://www.facebook.com/sergio101 > > > > signature.asc (849 bytes) > <http://forum.world.st/attachment/5105321/0/signature.asc> -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Oct. 10, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Running a teapot instance remotely

by sergio ruiz

This worked perfectly! To keep this running, I am running it in tux, so it will keep running when I log out. How are people keeping it running these days? Thanks! > On Oct 10, 2019, at 3:46 PM, Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: > > Sergio - looking at the last time I did this, my run script did: > > > > ---- peace, sergio photographer, journalist, visionary Public Key: http://bit.ly/29z9fG0 #BitMessage BM-NBaswViL21xqgg9STRJjaJaUoyiNe2dV @sergio_101@mastodon.social https://sergio101.com http://www.codeandmusic.com http://www.twitter.com/sergio_101 http://www.facebook.com/sergio101

Oct. 10, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] Running a teapot instance remotely

by Tim Mackinnon

Sergio - looking at the last time I did this, my run script did: pharo /home/app/PagerDuty/PagerDuty.image --no-default-preferences run.st This was using sysctrl (from memory - but this line was what was run.) The run.st was 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 "Simple application run script" Transcript cr; cr; nextPutAll: 'Resetting server...'. WPPagerDutyApp startForProduction: 8080. Transcript cr; nextPutAll: 'Complete.'. If you want to see my build script and deploy pipeline itâs in this simple project: https://gitlab.com/macta/WillowPagerDuty/blob/master/scripts/run.st Tim Sent from my iPhone > On 10 Oct 2019, at 19:46, sergio ruiz <sergio.rrd(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, all. > > I am running my teapot instance remotely, but Iâm not sure how to start it up. > > Just for testing, I am trying this: > > ./pharo LunchPicker.image eval "server := PickerServer serveOn: 3200. server startâ & > > But no luck. > > ideas? > > Thanks! > > > ---- > peace, > sergio > photographer, journalist, visionary > > Public Key: http://bit.ly/29z9fG0 > #BitMessage BM-NBaswViL21xqgg9STRJjaJaUoyiNe2dV > @sergio_101@mastodon.social > https://sergio101.com > http://www.codeandmusic.com > http://www.twitter.com/sergio_101 > http://www.facebook.com/sergio101 >

Oct. 10, 2019

Running a teapot instance remotely

by sergio ruiz

Hi, all. I am running my teapot instance remotely, but Iâm not sure how to start it up. Just for testing, I am trying this: ./pharo LunchPicker.image eval "server := PickerServer serveOn: 3200. server startâ & But no luck. ideas? Thanks! ---- peace, sergio photographer, journalist, visionary Public Key: http://bit.ly/29z9fG0 #BitMessage BM-NBaswViL21xqgg9STRJjaJaUoyiNe2dV @sergio_101@mastodon.social https://sergio101.com http://www.codeandmusic.com http://www.twitter.com/sergio_101 http://www.facebook.com/sergio101

Oct. 10, 2019