May 2018 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Personal Programming onPharo

by Todd Blanchard

OK, I have to push back at this. When Pharo forked I was excited because Squeak was such a fast moving lab experiment that you couldn't build anything and expect it to work in a year. Pharo was supposed to be the "business ready" fork leaving Squeak to be the crazy lab experiment. >From https://pharo.org/about It says: Pharo's goal is to deliver a clean, innovative, free and open-source immersive environment. By providing a stable and small core system, excellent developing tools, and maintained releases, Pharo is an attractive platform to build and deploy mission critical applications. But you are telling me that Pharo is also a fast moving lab experiment that is too unstable for real work? I understand this is hard but is there a definitive roadmap and plan to reach to stability? > On May 6, 2018, at 4:00 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > Can you elaborate on what you consider as a kernel? There are always things moving in the pharo world. The last years the virtual machine got some iterations and it is still not fully stable. For pharo it is hard to have it stable because we feel the need that a lot of the existing parts need to be replaced to be useful in these times. Furthermore pharo is also prototyping platform for programming language features. All of these are counter-stability measures. So if you need a stable kernel from native ground up to UI pharo wonât be that thing you are looking for the coming years (if at all). You always need to adopt to change so you need to define your required scope better in order to get an estimate. > > Norbert > > Am 06.05.2018 um 11:31 schrieb Trygve Reenskaug <trygver(a)ifi.uio.no <mailto:trygver@ifi.uio.no>>: > >> I'm working on a programing paradigm and IDE for the personal programmer who wants to control his or her IoT. The size of the target audience I have in mind is >100 million. I gave up Squeak long ago as a platform because they obsolete my code faster than I can write it. I have now frozen Squeak 3.10.2 and hope its runtime will survive until I find a better foundation. My hope is that Pharo has a stable kernel that I can build on. According to Stephan, this is not so. Is there any plan for creating a stable Pharo kernel that people can use for building software of lasting value for millions of non-expert users? >> --Thanks, Trygve >> >> On 05.05.2018 13:53, Stephan Eggermont wrote: >>> Iâve taken a look at what would be needed to >>> support magma on pharo a few years ago. Chris always told us he uses it >>> professionally on squeak and has not enough capacity to keep up with >>> changes in pharo without having a customer/maintainer for it. Twice a year >>> or so someone asks about magma on pharo and takes a look. AFAIK there are >>> no real obstacles to a port, but magma uses a lot of deep implementation >>> specifics that will take an experienced smalltalker to deal with, and a lot >>> of mailing list archeology as pharo changed a lot since magma worked on >>> pharo last >>> >>> Stephan >> >> -- >> The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate to achieve a goal. >> Trygve Reenskaug mailto: trygver(a)ifi.uio.no <mailto:%20trygver@ifi.uio.no> >> Morgedalsvn. 5A http://folk.uio.no/trygver/ <http://folk.uio.no/trygver/> >> N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info <http://fulloo.info/> >> Norway Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Using secure websockets server side with Zinc

by Cyril Ferlicot D.

Le 06/05/2018 Ã 20:46, Francisco Ortiz PeÃ±aloza a Ã©critÂ : > Sorry for the OT but I interested in how you're using WebSockets and > Seaside.Â > > Can you share how are you mix them together? > Hi, We do it in this project: https://github.com/TelescopeSt/TelescopeCytoscape This project allow to create a model of visualization (nodes and their contents, layouts, interactions, and update mechanism) then to render it with the CytoscapeJs visualization framework. The Seaside part is really small. We just use Seaside to render an empty div and initialize a cytoscape visualization inside. We could probably do without Seaside but we did this project for a Seaside application. (And we use the existing callbacks mechanism) During the rendering we open a web socket and we generate the initial cytoscape visualization inside the empty div generated by Seaside. Then when the user interact with the visualization, it communicates the interactions via the web socket to the Pharo server and if it should impact the visualization, commands to do so are sent via the websocket to the client. In this project the main part for the websocket management are: - TLCytoscapeComponent : The Seaside component registering the visualization (https://github.com/TelescopeSt/TelescopeCytoscape/blob/development/src/Tele…) - TLCytoscapeWebSocketDelegate : The class managing the websocket server side (https://github.com/TelescopeSt/TelescopeCytoscape/blob/development/src/Tele…) - CYSFileLibrary>>cytoscapeTelescopeJs : The javascript managing the socket client side (https://github.com/TelescopeSt/TelescopeCytoscape/blob/development/src/Tele…) If you need more details just ask :) -- Cyril Ferlicot https://ferlicot.fr

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Using secure websockets server side with Zinc

by Francisco Ortiz PeÃ±aloza

Sorry for the OT but I interested in how you're using WebSockets and Seaside. Can you share how are you mix them together? On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:40 AM Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 02/05/2018 16:29, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > Hi Cyril, > > > > Thank you for the infos and the fast reply :) > > > You can run a ZnSecureServer with a specific certificate. See the class > comment. But, this is a bit experimental, you need a very specific > certificate and I have only seen it work on Linux. > > > > Good to know! > > > If you front you Seaside app with Nginx, I assume you are doing HTTPS -> > HTTP in Nginx. I would suggest you try doing WWS -> WS as well. This does > mean that connections are kept open of course (implicit in WebSockets). I > have not yet done this myself, but it should work theoretically. > > > > This is what I do now and it works fine. I just wanted to know if there > was an alternative to write it in the documentation of the project > (since it will be open source). > > > The thing is, you will find 100x more info on (correct) TLS/SSL setup on > Nginx, and app proxying is totally accepted today. > > > > Ok, so I'll probably just give an example with nginx in the documentation > :) > > > Please let us know how it goes ;-) > > > > Sven > > > > > > > -- > Cyril Ferlicot > https://ferlicot.fr > >

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Saving a Smalltalk Project

by Stephan Eggermont

Todd Blanchard <tblanchard(a)mac.com> wrote: > Just out of curiosity, why do you want an OODB? http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/5602

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] [Seaside] [ANN] ChartJs for Seaside v1.0.0

by Francisco Ortiz PeÃ±aloza

Great work! Thanks for sharing. BTW demo link is giving me a bad gateway error (504) On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 6:38 AM Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Le 04/05/2018 Ã 22:06, Smalltalk a Ã©crit : > > Cyril, > > > > Thanks for sharing this. Very cool ! > > > > I'm using a very basic package to render charts with SVG (scalable > > vector graphics) build by my self. > > > > Now i think i will switch to ChartJs. I'll try to load it to Seaside for > > GemStone. > > Great! :) > > I never really used gemstone so there will be some troubles probably. If > you open issues describing them I can correct them when I'll have the time. > > > > > regards, > > bruno > > > > > > > > < > https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai… > > > > Libre de virus. www.avast.com > > < > https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai… > > > > > > > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > seaside mailing list > > seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > -- > Cyril Ferlicot > https://ferlicot.fr > > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside >

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] reading from a named pipe in Pharo

by Alistair Grant

Hi Siemen & Mariano, On 5 May 2018 at 16:26, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Siemen, > > You may want to check the pipe support code in OSSubprocess [1]. Note that > the pipes should work outside of OSSubprocess. You can read the > documentation as well as the unit tests for the pipes. > > Cheers, > > [1] https://github.com/marianopeck/OSSubprocess OSSPipe seems to assume that is controlling both ends of the pipe, while it may be that Siemen just wants to read from the pipe. Anyway, Mariano mentioned that pipes should work outside of OSSubprocess, and I've made some modifications to FilePlugin which should facilitate that, so thought I'd have a go. This still doesn't completely meet Siemen's requirements as it polls the stream, but... I've attached a little demo class, tested only on Ubuntu 16.04. Be warned, I've never used Unix pipes before, so feel free to critique the code: NamedPipeEcho provides sample code showing how to read from a Unix named pipe and echo the contents to stdout. Interesting attributes of the sample code include: - It is just a sample, it isn't intended to be production ready. - It marks the pipe non-blocking so that multiple pipes can be processed without the image blocking when reading. - It's polling, rather than event driven. - It doesn't have any external dependencies outside the core Pharo image and standard Pharo VM. - It defines a method that directly calls a primitive - I consider this bad practice and would like to make the primitive generally available through FilePlugin. The simplest way to run this is in one terminal (bash shell): $ mkfifo /dev/shm/pharopipe $ pharo --headless Pharo.image eval "(NamedPipeEcho on: '/dev/shm/pharopipe') run" and in a second terminal (bash shell): $ pharo --headless Pharo.image eval "NamedPipeEcho sampleWriteTo: '/dev/shm/pharopipe'" You should see: Hello World Line 2 in the first terminal, with a 15 second delay between the lines and exit. There's also AsyncFile, which should make it event driven instead of polled, but I haven't had a chance to look at that yet. This is tested with: Pharo7.0alpha Build information: Pharo-7.0+alpha.build.839.sha.675decd24230e0ef7d1579af07c2112c104c6d7b (64 Bit) 5.0-201804122226 Thu Apr 12 22:34:48 UTC 2018 gcc 4.8 [Production Spur 64-bit VM] CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2361 uuid: 7ca2f89a-de70-422f-b92b-54f91ac4e47b Apr 12 2018 StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2361 uuid: 7ca2f89a-de70-422f-b92b-54f91ac4e47b Apr 12 2018 VM: 201804122226 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git $ Date: Thu Apr 12 15:26:17 2018 -0700 $ CommitHash: 07c6dc3 $ Plugins: 201804122226 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git $ Linux travis-job-b95e67e4-9fb2-4d69-a59f-1fbf859b912c 4.4.0-101-generic #124~14.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Fri Nov 10 19:05:36 UTC 2017 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux plugin path: /home/alistair/pharo7/Issue21692/vm/pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-201804122226 [default: /home/alistair/pharo7/Issue21692/vm/pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-201804122226/] Earlier VMs probably won't work as #atEnd will always return true or false (I forget which). Cheers, Alistair

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Saving a Smalltalk Project

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

PostgreSQL is a totally valid alternative as well. It is a real RDBMS, cross platform, open source, with wide support. We have two network level drivers in Pharo (PostgresV2 and recently P3) and it works well under GLORP. > On 6 May 2018, at 19:10, Todd Blanchard <tblanchard(a)mac.com> wrote: > > Just out of curiosity, why do you want an OODB? > > SQLite has a plethora of tools, powerful query capabilities, can be migrated with very little pain, and can act a bit like an OODB using GLORP. > > I have lost too many data sets to proprietary OODBs to ever trust one again. > >> On May 6, 2018, at 10:00 AM, horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Just out of curiosity, which object database is recommended for Pharo? >> Something that is reliably up-to-date as Pharo changes. >> >> >> Stephan Eggermont-3 wrote >>> Sean P. DeNigris < >> >>> sean@ >> >>> > wrote: >>>> OT: It's ironic that Smalltalkers are often accused of NIH syndrome, but >>>> the >>>> first reaction of people from less "productive" languages/systems is to >>>> rewrite a working Smalltalk app in their language of comfortâ¦ >>> >>> Indeed. And rewriting something that also uses an OODB is going to kill >>> productivity even more. Iâve taken a look at what would be needed to >>> support magma on pharo a few years ago. Chris always told us he uses it >>> professionally on squeak and has not enough capacity to keep up with >>> changes in pharo without having a customer/maintainer for it. Twice a year >>> or so someone asks about magma on pharo and takes a look. AFAIK there are >>> no real obstacles to a port, but magma uses a lot of deep implementation >>> specifics that will take an experienced smalltalker to deal with, and a >>> lot >>> of mailing list archeology as pharo changed a lot since magma worked on >>> pharo last >>> >>> Stephan >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Saving a Smalltalk Project

by horrido

I tend to agree with you. I like SQLite. Also, MongoDB isn't bad, either. But is there no scenario where an OODB would be highly advantageous? tblanchard wrote > Just out of curiosity, why do you want an OODB? > > SQLite has a plethora of tools, powerful query capabilities, can be > migrated with very little pain, and can act a bit like an OODB using > GLORP. > > I have lost too many data sets to proprietary OODBs to ever trust one > again. > >> On May 6, 2018, at 10:00 AM, horrido < > horrido.hobbies@ > > wrote: >> >> Just out of curiosity, which object database is recommended for Pharo? >> Something that is reliably up-to-date as Pharo changes. >> >> >> Stephan Eggermont-3 wrote >>> Sean P. DeNigris < >> >>> sean@ >> >>> > wrote: >>>> OT: It's ironic that Smalltalkers are often accused of NIH syndrome, >>>> but >>>> the >>>> first reaction of people from less "productive" languages/systems is to >>>> rewrite a working Smalltalk app in their language of comfortâ¦ >>> >>> Indeed. And rewriting something that also uses an OODB is going to kill >>> productivity even more. Iâve taken a look at what would be needed to >>> support magma on pharo a few years ago. Chris always told us he uses it >>> professionally on squeak and has not enough capacity to keep up with >>> changes in pharo without having a customer/maintainer for it. Twice a >>> year >>> or so someone asks about magma on pharo and takes a look. AFAIK there >>> are >>> no real obstacles to a port, but magma uses a lot of deep implementation >>> specifics that will take an experienced smalltalker to deal with, and a >>> lot >>> of mailing list archeology as pharo changed a lot since magma worked on >>> pharo last >>> >>> Stephan >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html> -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Saving a Smalltalk Project

by Todd Blanchard

Just out of curiosity, why do you want an OODB? SQLite has a plethora of tools, powerful query capabilities, can be migrated with very little pain, and can act a bit like an OODB using GLORP. I have lost too many data sets to proprietary OODBs to ever trust one again. > On May 6, 2018, at 10:00 AM, horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Just out of curiosity, which object database is recommended for Pharo? > Something that is reliably up-to-date as Pharo changes. > > > Stephan Eggermont-3 wrote >> Sean P. DeNigris < > >> sean@ > >> > wrote: >>> OT: It's ironic that Smalltalkers are often accused of NIH syndrome, but >>> the >>> first reaction of people from less "productive" languages/systems is to >>> rewrite a working Smalltalk app in their language of comfortâ¦ >> >> Indeed. And rewriting something that also uses an OODB is going to kill >> productivity even more. Iâve taken a look at what would be needed to >> support magma on pharo a few years ago. Chris always told us he uses it >> professionally on squeak and has not enough capacity to keep up with >> changes in pharo without having a customer/maintainer for it. Twice a year >> or so someone asks about magma on pharo and takes a look. AFAIK there are >> no real obstacles to a port, but magma uses a lot of deep implementation >> specifics that will take an experienced smalltalker to deal with, and a >> lot >> of mailing list archeology as pharo changed a lot since magma worked on >> pharo last >> >> Stephan > > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html>

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Saving a Smalltalk Project

by horrido

Just out of curiosity, which object database is recommended for Pharo? Something that is reliably up-to-date as Pharo changes. Stephan Eggermont-3 wrote > Sean P. DeNigris < > sean@ > > wrote: >> OT: It's ironic that Smalltalkers are often accused of NIH syndrome, but >> the >> first reaction of people from less "productive" languages/systems is to >> rewrite a working Smalltalk app in their language of comfortâ¦ > > Indeed. And rewriting something that also uses an OODB is going to kill > productivity even more. Iâve taken a look at what would be needed to > support magma on pharo a few years ago. Chris always told us he uses it > professionally on squeak and has not enough capacity to keep up with > changes in pharo without having a customer/maintainer for it. Twice a year > or so someone asks about magma on pharo and takes a look. AFAIK there are > no real obstacles to a port, but magma uses a lot of deep implementation > specifics that will take an experienced smalltalker to deal with, and a > lot > of mailing list archeology as pharo changed a lot since magma worked on > pharo last > > Stephan -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

On 06/05/18 08:03, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > Offray, > > > Not sure if the code that is loaded is correct for the data selfies > because: > > > > getAvatar being missing. > > Phil You need to update the Dataviz package (Grafoscopio docking bar has an option for it)Â before running the code in the Data Selfies notebook. One of the things we do regularly in the workshops is to extend the functionality of Grafoscopio/Dataviz packages. That should be stated more clearly in the documentation. I will put that there. Thanks, Offray

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018

by phil＠highoctane.be

Offray, On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas < offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > Hi Sean, > > This was a crazy week! Lot of stuff happening, but the important was > getting the people network stronger by meeting again, talking, drinking, > dancing, besides all talks, workshops and meetups in a context like > re:publica[1] and the GIG[2]. So, as I told to the list, I was unable to > answer fast or even visit Discord to ask anything. > > [1] http://re-publica.com/ > [2] https://www.globalinnovationgathering.org/ > > But yes, we have some video recordings at the re:publica site, > (unfortunately not the workshops) and we share some pictures in Twitter > [3] and I have made some draft documentation that was complementary > [4][5] to the workshop, but will be improve the upcoming week (like the > software). > > [3] https://twitter.com/weareGIG > [4] > http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/dataweek/doc/tip/Artefactos/Republica2018/ > index.html > [5] https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/rp18DataSelfies Not sure if the code that is loaded is correct for the data selfies because: getAvatar being missing. Phil > > > Cheers, > > Offray > > On 26/04/18 09:36, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > > Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas-2 wrote > >> I will be showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018, > >> next week. > > Wow! That's great. Any way we can follow along? e.g. live streaming, > later > > recording > > > > > > Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas-2 wrote > >> I may be more active those days in the Discord and mailing > >> list channels, is some questions arise. > > Fire away. I'm sure we'll support you any way we can. Give us a heads up > > about the time window so we can try to be availableâ¦ > > > > > > > > ----- > > Cheers, > > Sean > > -- > > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > > > > > > > >

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018

by phil＠highoctane.be

On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas < offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > Hi Sean, > > This was a crazy week! Lot of stuff happening, but the important was > getting the people network stronger by meeting again, talking, drinking, > dancing, besides all talks, workshops and meetups in a context like > re:publica[1] and the GIG[2]. So, as I told to the list, I was unable to > answer fast or even visit Discord to ask anything. > > [1] http://re-publica.com/ > [2] https://www.globalinnovationgathering.org/ > > But yes, we have some video recordings at the re:publica site, > (unfortunately not the workshops) and we share some pictures in Twitter > [3] and I have made some draft documentation that was complementary > [4][5] to the workshop, but will be improve the upcoming week (like the > software). > > [3] https://twitter.com/weareGIG > [4] > http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/dataweek/doc/tip/Artefactos/Republica2018/ > index.html > [5] https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/rp18DataSelfies Offray, Now that I have loaded/updated the system, I am going through the steps. You write "To run the code nodes, click on the green "Play" symbol triangle at the left of each node." There is no such triangle. I guess you mean the green triangle at the top right of the note. Right? Best, Phil > > > Cheers, > > Offray > > On 26/04/18 09:36, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > > Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas-2 wrote > >> I will be showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018, > >> next week. > > Wow! That's great. Any way we can follow along? e.g. live streaming, > later > > recording > > > > > > Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas-2 wrote > >> I may be more active those days in the Discord and mailing > >> list channels, is some questions arise. > > Fire away. I'm sure we'll support you any way we can. Give us a heads up > > about the time window so we can try to be availableâ¦ > > > > > > > > ----- > > Cheers, > > Sean > > -- > > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > > > > > > > >

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018

by phil＠highoctane.be

On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas < offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > > > On 06/05/18 07:16, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > > > > I actually restarted the loading process and then, magic, no more error. > > Seems like a known problem that should be tackled with using Tonel format > etc. https://github.com/pharo-vcs/iceberg/issues/94 > > But then, another issue, related to Zinc. > > > Weird. Clues? > > > We got that error when we try to open a notebook without updating > previously Grafoscopio. Please use the update menus in the Grafoscopio > docking bar for th Grafoscopio and Dataviz packages. That should solve the > issue. > Indeed. I can now load http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/dataweek/doc/tip/Artefactos/DataSelfies/dat… > > I would really have a better way of installing Grafoscopio. If you have > any suggestions on the Gopher, Metacello, installing front, or even better, > if you need any permissions on the source code repository [1], just let me > know. > > [1] http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Offray/Grafoscopio > > I have got access already. I can look at the configuration(s). Best, Phil > Cheers, > > Offray >

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

On 06/05/18 07:16, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > > > I actually restarted the loading process and then, magic, no more error. > > Seems like a known problem that should be tackled with using Tonel > format etc. https://github.com/pharo-vcs/iceberg/issues/94 > > But then, another issue, related to Zinc. > > > Weird. Clues? > We got that error when we try to open a notebook without updating previously Grafoscopio. Please use the update menus in the Grafoscopio docking bar for th Grafoscopio and Dataviz packages. That should solve the issue. I would really have a better way of installing Grafoscopio. If you have any suggestions on the Gopher, Metacello, installing front, or even better, if you need any permissions on the source code repository [1], just let me know. [1] http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Offray/Grafoscopio Cheers, Offray

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018

by phil＠highoctane.be

Hi Offray, On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 1:47 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas < offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > Hi Phil, > > On 27/04/18 03:02, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > > On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 3:57 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas < > offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I will be showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018, >> next week. As you may know, re:publica[2] is one of the most important >> and visible media & digital culture conventions in Europe and is a good >> scenario for the Pharo community. You can find details about my >> participation at [1] >> > > The "on how to use the Grafoscopio *pocket infrastructure* for data > activism and digital citizenship " soundbite just blew my mind. > > "Pocket Infrastructure" hits the nail on the head for sure. > I positively love that angle. > Compared to python, node, etc, there is much less fuss to get started and > it allows to focus on the data narrative right away. > > I regularly make folders in my Dropbox where I throw a pharo vm and a > pharo image I work on, saved using https://github.com/ > Pharophile/HOImageSaver so that I can always go back in time easily > (saved me more than once!). This very handy for working on machine A, and > resuming work on machine B, or C etc. > And is indeed "Pocket Infrastructure". > > > I think that pocket infrastructures are a powerful concept for inclusion > and participation, specially in the times of fancy exclusionary "Big Data" > and "Artificial Intelligence" buzzwords and discourses that don't take into > account who becomes data of who, who will have the access, storage and > processing capability in those forecast futures. In contrast Pocket > Infrastructures are inclusive by default, being self-contained, simple and > working well in on/off line contexts. > As I am busy in that space with Hadoop / TensorFlow / ..., yes there is a tendency to have kind of "high priests of data" showing up. This is isolating the common folk instead of empowering them. I am fighting that tendency in the projects because the technology can be approachable. > Pharo, in the live coding environment front and Fossil, in the DVCS front, > work pretty well for that working definition of Pocket Infrastructures. Is > impressive that just under 50 Mb anyone can have a Jupyter+GitHub alike > environment for data storytelling, visualization and reproducible research > that just run in their pockets and low end machines (and of course, big > server and anything in between). We tried before with IPython notebook and > other more complex stuff and we were dealing with external complexities > instead of going right into story telling + coding + data viz. Of course, > Jupyter and GitHub are a lot more popular that Grafoscopio + Fossil, but > they're also traveling the most traverse path, while I think that a lot of > valuable innovation comes, by definition, from the margins and that can > give Pharo ecosystem an advantage point over other more popular approaches, > as practice have demonstrated time and again. > > > As a Jupyter user, yes, I can relate. Jupyter is easy once you have it installed (like installing Anaconda distribution and typing "jupyter notebook" on the command line. But that is already a high bar for non technical people. I am very interested in Grafoscopio to work out proof of concepts in Pharo, so that I can have a nice narrative structure. Coupled with gtExample and specific inspector presentations, this is a terrific thing. My current project involved a Glorp component and I'd like to showcase transactions within a Grafoscopio notebook. I'll tell you how it goes :-) Fossil is indeed a great vehicle for code and assets. Fossil and SQLite, great stuff. Phil > > >> [1] >> https://18.re-publica.com/en/session/data-clinic-twitter-dat >> a-selfies-data-portraits >> [2] https://18.re-publica.com/en >> >> I will be making intensive refactoring on the Dataviz package to create >> some usual and unusual data visualizations from data exported from >> Twitter, so I may be more active those days in the Discord and mailing >> list channels, is some questions arise. >> > > Do you already use DiscordSt? > > > > No. I'm kind of bad at chat real-time messaging communication (It occupies > mostly of my attention and I'm less focused on other stuff). I found myself > being more focused while muting the real-time communication channels and > going to them for specific times/activities and for short periods. What is > DiscordSt? > > >> Thanks in advance for the Pharo communities support. I wouldn't be able >> to be there without it. >> > > What you achieve with Pharo makes me proud of supporting Pharo. > Kudos Offray, we need more people like you in the world. > > _/\_ > > Phil > > > > Thanks for such kind words. I not only wouldn't be able to do it without > the community support, but particularly without the interest that people > like you, Phil, show on these themes and approaches. So is really worthy to > be in a community where different people can share interests, care about > each other and start small by just helping each other with proofreading, > encouraging words, scholarships, coffee and beers, and even some times, > code reviews and software improvements. Thanks a lot for (m)any of those. > > Cheers, > > Offray >

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018

by phil＠highoctane.be

On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas < offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > Hi Phil, > > Seems that some dependency related with GT-Examples and LibGit changed > recently. On Mac/Linux installation was well until last week. > > I have had problems with LibGit in the past (which BTW, makes any install > process really unpleasant), but I don't know if they're related with your > issue. At that time the solution was to disable LibGit "developer profile" > integration (which asked for a LibGit setup). Maybe you can try installing > it before installing Grafoscopio, by following the instructions at [1], or > if that doesn't work, maybe the folks at GT can help us with that. > > [1] https://github.com/feenkcom/gtoolkit > > Let me know how it goes. > I actually restarted the loading process and then, magic, no more error. Seems like a known problem that should be tackled with using Tonel format etc. https://github.com/pharo-vcs/iceberg/issues/94 But then, another issue, related to Zinc. Weird. Clues? Phil > Cheers, > > Offray > > On 06/05/18 06:43, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > > > On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas < > offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > >> Hi Sean, >> >> This was a crazy week! Lot of stuff happening, but the important was >> getting the people network stronger by meeting again, talking, drinking, >> dancing, besides all talks, workshops and meetups in a context like >> re:publica[1] and the GIG[2]. So, as I told to the list, I was unable to >> answer fast or even visit Discord to ask anything. >> >> [1] http://re-publica.com/ >> [2] https://www.globalinnovationgathering.org/ >> >> But yes, we have some video recordings at the re:publica site, >> (unfortunately not the workshops) and we share some pictures in Twitter >> [3] and I have made some draft documentation that was complementary >> [4][5] to the workshop, but will be improve the upcoming week (like the >> software). >> >> [3] https://twitter.com/weareGIG >> [4] >> http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/dataweek/doc/tip/Artefactos/ >> Republica2018/index.html >> [5] https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/rp18DataSelfies > > > I get an error while loading Grafoscopio on Windows. > > > > Linked to gtoolkit-examples and libgit. > > Phil > >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Offray >> >> On 26/04/18 09:36, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: >> > Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas-2 wrote >> >> I will be showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018, >> >> next week. >> > Wow! That's great. Any way we can follow along? e.g. live streaming, >> later >> > recording >> > >> > >> > Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas-2 wrote >> >> I may be more active those days in the Discord and mailing >> >> list channels, is some questions arise. >> > Fire away. I'm sure we'll support you any way we can. Give us a heads up >> > about the time window so we can try to be availableâ¦ >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- >> > Cheers, >> > Sean >> > -- >> > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Histogram for files dates and sizes

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Hi, Here is the improved version: As you can see, now I coded colored years functionality (I thought that colored histograms, following a criteria, would be supported by default, but I was unable to find any documentation or example about it). Two questions remain: * How can I add ticks in the X axis, so they correspond to a particular criteria? For example, a change in the year? * There is any way to make the RTLegend puts the color labels in a "matrix alike" fashion? So, for example, I would like to say that instead of having the default 1xn column of color labels, as now, I want them organized over a nxm matrix, so they suit better different graphical objects and layouts. Thanks, Offray On 26/04/18 14:31, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm making a histogram of files that have the naming convention > |YYYY_MM.js|, for year and month info. The image below shows what I > get until now: > > By the way, you can run this example by loading and updating the > Dataviz package [2] from [3] > > [2] > http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/grafoscopio/doc/tip/Packages/Dataviz/readme… > [3] http://ws.stfx.eu/OUEYE943HV3Q > > I would like to have bars for every year of a file name in a different > color (I imagine that using |#distinctColorUsing:| ) and ticks on each > year. I'm seeing some examples in the image and in > http://agilevisualization.com/AgileVisualization/Roassal/0104-Roassal.html, > but I wonder if there is a more mature and already existing RTObject > for this kind of work. Also I would like to show Y axis scale using > size of files in a human friendly format (160 Kb instead of 160000.0 > and so on). > > Any help or pointers on this is greatly appreciated. > > Cheers, > > Offray >

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Hi Phil, Seems that some dependency related with GT-Examples and LibGit changed recently. On Mac/Linux installation was well until last week. I have had problems with LibGit in the past (which BTW, makes any install process really unpleasant), but I don't know if they're related with your issue. At that time the solution was to disable LibGit "developer profile" integration (which asked for a LibGit setup). Maybe you can try installing it before installing Grafoscopio, by following the instructions at [1], or if that doesn't work, maybe the folks at GT can help us with that. [1] https://github.com/feenkcom/gtoolkit Let me know how it goes. Cheers, Offray On 06/05/18 06:43, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > > On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas > <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com <mailto:offray.luna@mutabit.com>> wrote: > > Hi Sean, > > This was a crazy week! Lot of stuff happening, but the important was > getting the people network stronger by meeting again, talking, > drinking, > dancing, besides all talks, workshops and meetups in a context like > re:publica[1] and the GIG[2]. So, as I told to the list, I was > unable to > answer fast or even visit Discord to ask anything. > > [1] http://re-publica.com/ > [2] https://www.globalinnovationgathering.org/ > <https://www.globalinnovationgathering.org/> > > But yes, we have some video recordings at the re:publica site, > (unfortunately not the workshops) and we share some pictures in > Twitter > [3] and I have made some draft documentation that was complementary > [4][5] to the workshop, but will be improve the upcoming week > (like the > software). > > [3] https://twitter.com/weareGIG > [4] > http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/dataweek/doc/tip/Artefactos/Republica2018/i… > <http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/dataweek/doc/tip/Artefactos/Republica2018/i…> > [5] https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/rp18DataSelfies > <https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/rp18DataSelfies> > > > I get an error while loading Grafoscopio on Windows. > > Â > > Linked to gtoolkit-examples and libgit. > > Phil > > > > Cheers, > > Offray > > On 26/04/18 09:36, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > > Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas-2 wrote > >> I will be showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at > re:publica 2018, > >> next week. > > Wow! That's great. Any way we can follow along? e.g. live > streaming, later > > recording > > > > > > Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas-2 wrote > >> I may be more active those days in the Discord and mailing > >> list channels, is some questions arise. > > Fire away. I'm sure we'll support you any way we can. Give us a > heads up > > about the time window so we can try to be availableâ¦ > > > > > > > > ----- > > Cheers, > > Sean > > -- > > Sent from: > http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html> > > > > > > > > >

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] How to LAN feature

by phil＠highoctane.be

On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 1:31 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > If it is on a single network this should be doable by using UDP broadcast > announcements. The share server can announce some information and its IP in > a UDP packet being broadcasted. Every client receives that and then knows > the address of the server to connect to > > Hope this helps, Norbert > > > Am 06.05.2018 um 12:47 schrieb Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu>: > > > > Hi, > > > > I am looking for advices on a feature I want to develop for Dr. Geo. > > > > The need takes place in a LAN, for example in a School computer lab. A > teacher and students each run their own instance of Dr. Geo. I want the > teacher to be able to share with her students some sketches. Then the > students,from their Dr. Geo running instance, can browse and open the > sketches shared by the teacher. > > > > The user scenario will be like this: > > > > - Teacher copies the sketches she wants to share with her students in > her DrGeo.app/myShare folder. Then she activates the Dr. Geo share service > (from the setting browser for example). > > > > - Students start their own instances of Dr. Geo. It automatically scans > (in the background preferably) the LAN for any available LAN shares. When a > student goes to File>open she can also browse and open the discovered > shares. > > > > - Ideally students could also save their work on the teacher share. > > > > The constraints: there is no such things as fixed IP. So the scan is > over a subnetwork range. > > > > Any advices, reference reading, traps to avoid? > Not really for Pharo itself but PirateBox is a handy tool for gatherings like you mention (especially since there are often lots of network problems taking away valuable time). http://www.minimachines.net/a-la-une/guide-creer-une-piratebox-a-partir-dun… Phil > > Thanks > > > > Hilaire > > > > -- > > Dr. Geo > > http://drgeo.eu > > > > > > > > > >

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Hi Phil, On 27/04/18 03:02, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 3:57 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas > <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com <mailto:offray.luna@mutabit.com>> wrote: > > Hi, > > I will be showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica > 2018, > next week. As you may know, re:publica[2] is one of the most important > and visible media & digital culture conventions in Europe and is a > good > scenario for the Pharo community.Â You can find details about my > participation at [1] > > > The "on how to use the GrafoscopioÂ /pocket infrastructure/Â for data > activism and digital citizenshipÂ " soundbite just blew my mind. > > "Pocket Infrastructure" hits the nail on the head for sure.Â > I positively love that angle.Â > Compared to python, node, etc, there is much less fuss to get started > and it allows to focus on the data narrative right away. > > I regularly make folders in my Dropbox where I throw a pharo vm and a > pharo image I work on, saved > usingÂ https://github.com/Pharophile/HOImageSaver so that I can always > go back in time easily (saved me more than once!). This very handy for > working on machine A, and resuming work on machine B, or C etc. > And is indeed "Pocket Infrastructure". > I think that pocket infrastructures are a powerful concept for inclusion and participation, specially in the times of fancy exclusionary "Big Data" and "Artificial Intelligence" buzzwords and discourses that don't take into account who becomes data of who, who will have the access, storage and processing capability in those forecast futures. In contrast Pocket Infrastructures are inclusive by default, being self-contained, simple and working well in on/off line contexts. Pharo, in the live coding environment front and Fossil, in the DVCS front, work pretty well for that working definition of Pocket Infrastructures.Â Is impressive that just under 50 Mb anyone can have a Jupyter+GitHub alike environment for data storytelling, visualization and reproducible research that just run in their pockets and low end machines (and of course, big server and anything in between). We tried before with IPython notebook and other more complex stuff and we were dealing with external complexities instead of going right into story telling + coding + data viz. Of course, Jupyter and GitHub are a lot more popular that Grafoscopio + Fossil, but they're also traveling the most traverse path, while I think that a lot of valuable innovation comes, by definition, from the margins and that can give Pharo ecosystem an advantage point over other more popular approaches, as practice have demonstrated time and again. > > > [1] > https://18.re-publica.com/en/session/data-clinic-twitter-data-selfies-data-… > <https://18.re-publica.com/en/session/data-clinic-twitter-data-selfies-data-…> > [2] https://18.re-publica.com/en > > I will be making intensive refactoring on the Dataviz package to > create > some usual and unusual data visualizations from data exported from > Twitter, so I may be more active those days in the Discord and mailing > list channels, is some questions arise. > > > Do you already use DiscordSt?Â > Â No. I'm kind of bad at chat real-time messaging communication (It occupies mostly of my attention and I'm less focused on other stuff). I found myself being more focused while muting the real-time communication channels and going to them for specific times/activities and for short periods. What is DiscordSt? > > Thanks in advance for the Pharo communities support. I wouldn't be > able > to be there without it. > > > What you achieve with Pharo makes me proud of supporting Pharo.Â > Kudos Offray, we need more people like you in the world.Â Â > > _/\_ > > Phil > Â Thanks for such kind words. I not only wouldn't be able to do it without the community support, but particularly without the interest that people like you, Phil, show on these themes and approaches. So is really worthy to be in a community where different people can share interests, care about each other and start small by just helping each other with proofreading, encouraging words, scholarships, coffee and beers, and even some times, code reviews and software improvements. Thanks a lot for (m)any of those. Cheers, Offray

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018

by phil＠highoctane.be

On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas < offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > Hi Sean, > > This was a crazy week! Lot of stuff happening, but the important was > getting the people network stronger by meeting again, talking, drinking, > dancing, besides all talks, workshops and meetups in a context like > re:publica[1] and the GIG[2]. So, as I told to the list, I was unable to > answer fast or even visit Discord to ask anything. > > [1] http://re-publica.com/ > [2] https://www.globalinnovationgathering.org/ > > But yes, we have some video recordings at the re:publica site, > (unfortunately not the workshops) and we share some pictures in Twitter > [3] and I have made some draft documentation that was complementary > [4][5] to the workshop, but will be improve the upcoming week (like the > software). > > [3] https://twitter.com/weareGIG > [4] > http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/dataweek/doc/tip/Artefactos/Republica2018/ > index.html > [5] https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/rp18DataSelfies I get an error while loading Grafoscopio on Windows. Linked to gtoolkit-examples and libgit. Phil > > > Cheers, > > Offray > > On 26/04/18 09:36, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > > Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas-2 wrote > >> I will be showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018, > >> next week. > > Wow! That's great. Any way we can follow along? e.g. live streaming, > later > > recording > > > > > > Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas-2 wrote > >> I may be more active those days in the Discord and mailing > >> list channels, is some questions arise. > > Fire away. I'm sure we'll support you any way we can. Give us a heads up > > about the time window so we can try to be availableâ¦ > > > > > > > > ----- > > Cheers, > > Sean > > -- > > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > > > > > > > >

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] How to LAN feature

by Norbert Hartl

If it is on a single network this should be doable by using UDP broadcast announcements. The share server can announce some information and its IP in a UDP packet being broadcasted. Every client receives that and then knows the address of the server to connect to Hope this helps, Norbert > Am 06.05.2018 um 12:47 schrieb Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu>: > > Hi, > > I am looking for advices on a feature I want to develop for Dr. Geo. > > The need takes place in a LAN, for example in a School computer lab. A teacher and students each run their own instance of Dr. Geo. I want the teacher to be able to share with her students some sketches. Then the students,from their Dr. Geo running instance, can browse and open the sketches shared by the teacher. > > The user scenario will be like this: > > - Teacher copies the sketches she wants to share with her students in her DrGeo.app/myShare folder. Then she activates the Dr. Geo share service (from the setting browser for example). > > - Students start their own instances of Dr. Geo. It automatically scans (in the background preferably) the LAN for any available LAN shares. When a student goes to File>open she can also browse and open the discovered shares. > > - Ideally students could also save their work on the teacher share. > > The constraints: there is no such things as fixed IP. So the scan is over a subnetwork range. > > Any advices, reference reading, traps to avoid? > > Thanks > > Hilaire > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu > > >

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Hi Ben, On 27/04/18 02:39, Ben Coman wrote: > > > On 26 April 2018 at 21:57, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas > <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com <mailto:offray.luna@mutabit.com>> wrote: > > >Â Printed material will be shared on how to recreate this experience, > so your friends, family and fellow data activists can take and share > their own Twitter data selfies and data portraits, to visualize part > of their online presence and help to oversight public political discourse. > > Do you need any review/testing of this material? > > cheers -ben Yes Ben. I will. Now I released just a short draft used to kickstart the workshop[1] (as I told the participants there), but I will be improving it the upcoming week and I will let you know when is ready for review. [1] http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/dataweek/doc/tip/Artefactos/Republica2018/i… Thanks for your continuous proof-reading support with all my writings (as a non-native speaker still struggling with English, that's pretty valuable) and for your general work supporting this community. Cheers, Offray

May 6, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Hi Sean, This was a crazy week! Lot of stuff happening, but the important was getting the people network stronger by meeting again, talking, drinking, dancing, besides all talks, workshops and meetups in a context like re:publica[1] and the GIG[2]. So, as I told to the list, I was unable to answer fast or even visit Discord to ask anything. [1] http://re-publica.com/ [2] https://www.globalinnovationgathering.org/ But yes, we have some video recordings at the re:publica site, (unfortunately not the workshops) and we share some pictures in Twitter [3] and I have made some draft documentation that was complementary [4][5] to the workshop, but will be improve the upcoming week (like the software). [3] https://twitter.com/weareGIG [4] http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/dataweek/doc/tip/Artefactos/Republica2018/i… [5] https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/rp18DataSelfies Cheers, Offray On 26/04/18 09:36, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas-2 wrote >> I will be showcasing Pharo, Roassal and Grafoscopio at re:publica 2018, >> next week. > Wow! That's great. Any way we can follow along? e.g. live streaming, later > recording > > > Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas-2 wrote >> I may be more active those days in the Discord and mailing >> list channels, is some questions arise. > Fire away. I'm sure we'll support you any way we can. Give us a heads up > about the time window so we can try to be availableâ¦ > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > >

May 6, 2018