April 2018 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Benoit St-Jean

For those interested. Created the issues 21686, 21693, 21695, 21696. And more to come... ----------------- BenoÃ®t St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Twitter: @BenLeChialeux Pinterest: benoitstjean Instagram: Chef_Benito IRC: lamneth Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero".Â (A. Einstein)

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by ClÃ©ment Bera

"Alpha software can be unstable and could cause crashes or data loss" [1] Experiencing instability, crashes and data loss in the alpha version of a software, including Pharo alpha, is to be expected and nothing to be surprised about. The support of the Pharo stable version (currently 6.1) has significantly improved in the past year. Many fixes and enhancements were back-ported from Pharo 7 to Pharo 6.1. Based on your comments, it seems that you have issues because you are not using the version of Pharo that fits your needs (i.e. the stable version). Checking the Pharo website [2], it seems there are *no* download links to the alpha version so far because it's not considered stable enough. Where did you get a link to download Pharo 7 alpha ? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle [2] https://pharo.org/download On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 11:26 AM, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users < pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > To: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > Cc: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > Bcc: > Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 09:26:09 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ? > BTW, why put an .exe installer for Windows available when it crashes right > from the start? It just doesn't work at all. Period. For everyone. > > And I thought looking for senders of a method was something we mastered a > long time ago, like starting with Smalltalk-76. Am I supposed to assume > that everything, even basic functionalities, are all broken because it's > labeled "alpha" ? > > > ----------------- > BenoÃ®t St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > Instagram: Chef_Benito > IRC: lamneth > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) > > > On Friday, April 13, 2018, 5:20:28 a.m. EDT, Esteban Lorenzano < > estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On 13 Apr 2018, at 11:07, Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > I'm on Windows 10, using Pharo 7.0 alpha 32 bit. > > > and btwâ¦ which part of ALPHA you do not get? > > Esteban > > -- ClÃ©ment BÃ©ra https://clementbera.github.io/ https://clementbera.wordpress.com/

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Alistair Grant

On 13 April 2018 at 11:04, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > >> On 13 Apr 2018, at 08:43, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >> >> I consider Pharo 7 as a great piece of kit but unusable for my current work. There are many new things to learn in there. When is too much too much? Also, simplifications are breaking things in unexpected ways (like the #atEnd thing). > > Phil, > > Nothing fundamental will break with #atEnd. > > What you are reading in pharo-dev is a constructive discussion that (for me at least) started with the desire to support one very special kind of stream (stdin in C terms), something 99.99% of Pharo users have never seen, used or heard of. Completely agree (despite one of my later messages to Sven being overly grumpy). I've learnt a lot from this exchange. Cheers, Alistair > Zn streams have worked well and as expected for Pharo versions going back to 3, that won't change.

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Cyril Ferlicot D.

On 13/04/2018 11:26, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users wrote: Do you expect a cleaning of the Kernel without any break during alpha version? This version introduce a new message browser, new Traits, more modularization of the kernel and some cleaning of the Kernel. I see a lot of reason why it might break during the alpha version. -- Cyril Ferlicot https://ferlicot.fr

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Marcus Denker

> On 13 Apr 2018, at 11:26, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ? > Date: 13 April 2018 at 11:26:09 CEST > To: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > Cc: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > Reply-To: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > > > BTW, why put an .exe installer for Windows available when it crashes right from the start? It just doesn't work at all. Period. For everyone. > > And I thought looking for senders of a method was something we mastered a long time ago, like starting with Smalltalk-76. Am I supposed to assume that everything, even basic functionalities, are all broken because it's labeled "alphaâ ? We have already a issue tracker entry with a description of a fix: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/21518/New-Traits-brings-wrong-behaviour-t… <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/21518/New-Traits-brings-wrong-behaviour-t…> TODO: turn that description into code and make a Pull Request. Marcus

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Esteban Lorenzano

ok, you want to have the last word. Go ahead. You have it. What you do not have is my attention anymore. cheers! Esteban > On 13 Apr 2018, at 11:26, Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > BTW, why put an .exe installer for Windows available when it crashes right from the start? It just doesn't work at all. Period. For everyone. > > And I thought looking for senders of a method was something we mastered a long time ago, like starting with Smalltalk-76. Am I supposed to assume that everything, even basic functionalities, are all broken because it's labeled "alpha" ? > > > ----------------- > BenoÃ®t St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > Instagram: Chef_Benito > IRC: lamneth > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) > > > On Friday, April 13, 2018, 5:20:28 a.m. EDT, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >> On 13 Apr 2018, at 11:07, Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com <mailto:bstjean@yahoo.com>> wrote: >> >> I'm on Windows 10, using Pharo 7.0 alpha 32 bit. >> > > and btwâ¦ which part of ALPHA you do not get? > > Esteban

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Benoit St-Jean

BTW, why put an .exe installer for Windows available when it crashes right from the start? It just doesn't work at all.Â Period.Â For everyone. And I thought looking for senders of a method was something we mastered a long time ago, like starting with Smalltalk-76.Â Am I supposed to assume that everything, even basic functionalities, are all broken because it's labeled "alpha" ? ----------------- BenoÃ®t St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Twitter: @BenLeChialeux Pinterest: benoitstjean Instagram: Chef_Benito IRC: lamneth Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero".Â (A. Einstein) On Friday, April 13, 2018, 5:20:28 a.m. EDT, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: On 13 Apr 2018, at 11:07, Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> wrote: I'm on Windows 10, using Pharo 7.0 alpha 32 bit. and btwâ¦ which part of ALPHA you do not get? Esteban

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Cyril Ferlicot D.

On 13/04/2018 11:07, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users wrote: "Can I at least expect to be able to save code in my local Monticello repository ? It bombs. I just reported a bug!" "Can I expect that when looking for implementors of a method things still work? I get duplicates (see attached file)." => The meaning of alpha is that things like this can happen often. Else it would be a beta or a release version. But if you stick to use it, the bug reports are really welcomed! For the windows launcher indeed there is weird behaviour and Christophe is working on it when he gets bug reports. (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-launcher/issues) "Can I expect reading input from the console to work on Windows? It doesn't." What do you mean by that? Having Pharo running and the user sending input from it's CMD? I never saw an application doing that on windows. "Can I expect to be able to contribute ? That is kinda sad but all the cool scripts out there are .sh files." Which scripts? I contribute to Pharo from windows 7 and windows 10 without any script. Sometimes I have some troubles but it's only natural during the version that change all the contribution process the time it stabilize. If you have troubles on windows can you open issues please? Because most of the time I see that people complain about some bugs but some of those bugs never got a bug report. -- Cyril Ferlicot https://ferlicot.fr

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 13 Apr 2018, at 11:07, Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > I'm on Windows 10, using Pharo 7.0 alpha 32 bit. > and btwâ¦ which part of ALPHA you do not get? Esteban

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Esteban Lorenzano

Can I expect a PR to help? I tell you again: That tone does not helps your case, please calm down. Esteban > On 13 Apr 2018, at 11:07, Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > "You cannot take an alpha version and expect production quality." > > I'm on Windows 10, using Pharo 7.0 alpha 32 bit. > > > Can I at least expect to be able to save code in my local Monticello repository ? It bombs. I just reported a bug! > > Can I expect the Windows installer for Pharo Launcher to work on Windows? It doesn't : it crashes. > > Can I expect Pharo Launcher (not installed from the .exe installer) to work on Windows? It just doesn't. I get all kinds of error related to WindowsStore, bad UTF-8 encoding and other things... (see https://twitter.com/smalltalkdev/status/978973863332798464 <https://twitter.com/smalltalkdev/status/978973863332798464>) > > Can I expect that when looking for implementors of a method things still work? I get duplicates (see attached file). > > Can I expect reading input from the console to work on Windows? It doesn't. > > Can I expect to be able to test my stuff on Windows? That's kinda hard when Windows is always 6 months to 1 year behind VM-wise. > > Can I expect to be able to contribute ? That is kinda sad but all the cool scripts out there are .sh files. > > I'm not whining about the effort people put into this project : I'm mostly whining about duplication of effort and code and *very poor* Windows support... > > Just spend 2 weeks working with Pharo on Windows. You can start with version 5.1 if you want and let me know how it goes... Brace yourself, I'm telling you, you're off for a wild & unpleasant ride. > > > > > > > ----------------- > BenoÃ®t St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > Instagram: Chef_Benito > IRC: lamneth > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) > <implementors.JPG>

April 13, 2018