April 2018 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Denis Kudriashov

With new Traits we have some issues which we are slowly fixing. Nice thing that fixes are quite simple and clean and covered by tests. I guess it was not like that before. So Pablo did very good job here. For this concrete case with implementors there is already issue 21652 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/21652/Smalltalk-allClassesAndTraits-dupli…>: the method allClassesAndTraits includes traits twice. 2018-04-13 11:30 GMT+02:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: > > > On 13 Apr 2018, at 11:26, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users < > pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > *From: *Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > *Subject: **Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?* > *Date: *13 April 2018 at 11:26:09 CEST > *To: *Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > *Cc: *Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > *Reply-To: *Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > > > BTW, why put an .exe installer for Windows available when it crashes right > from the start? It just doesn't work at all. Period. For everyone. > > And I thought looking for senders of a method was something we mastered a > long time ago, like starting with Smalltalk-76. Am I supposed to assume > that everything, even basic functionalities, are all broken because it's > labeled "alphaâ ? > > > We have already a issue tracker entry with a description of a fix: > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/21518/New-Traits-brings- > wrong-behaviour-to-tagsForMethods > > TODO: turn that description into code and make a Pull Request. > > Marcus > >

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Richard O'Keefe

There are a lot of subsystems in Pharo, and being a bear of very little brain, I have a hard time relating Zinc, Calypso, &c &c to, well, whatever they are. I presume there is somewhere a list of topic/name/PFX triples for guidance. Can some kind soul tell me where it is? On 13 April 2018 at 23:01, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > > On 13 Apr 2018, at 12:40, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > > > > > > >> On 13 Apr 2018, at 12:19, Joe Shirk <j.b.shirk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> I've been a lurk-fan for a long time but this brings up something that > distressed me. Richard Eng, Smalltalk Renaissance hero loves to say > Smalltalk's grammar/syntax fits on a postcard. > >> > >> But the vocabulary doesn't. There is nothing English-like about the > always expanding bewildering library namespaces. > >> > > The package names that just use the âproject nameâ can be problematicâ¦ too > many words. e.g. âHiedraâ? No idea. (there are ideas of how to improve, I > will not list them here as this should > not turn into discussion about this issue). > > The way we present packages (and their granularity) is not ârightâ. > Namespaces are a problem in additionâ¦ > > So yes: we have a lot of thing to improve! > . > >> GT what? Oh a newbie might eventually figure out it means Glamorous > Toolkit. These are meaningless brands. In this drive to come up with > creative names for "just objects" that explain nothing at all, Smalltalk is > becoming like Java or PHP hell. > >> Just look at those examples through the eyes of a novice. The purity is > nowhere to be found. > >> :( > > > > You are right, but in 'the real world' it is no longer possible to > reserve the nice, simple names for just one variant. The prefixes are a > poor mans namespace mechanism. You have to read over them. > > > > Inspector, EyeInspector, GTInspector, ... > > > > I rather have cool alternatives and the development of new ideas than > 'one ring to rule them all' or no/slow progress. Remember that we develop > in a live system, changing things while testing them, this is often hard. > Alternative subsystems help a lot. > > It should be clear that what we have is what we managed to do, not what we > dreamed aboutâ¦ I, too, would like to have this clean, nice, small, amazing > systemâ¦ but it is not always easy. > > There is a lot we can (and will!) improve! > > Marcus > > >

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Progress bar for ZnClient>>#downloadTo:

by Cyril Ferlicot D.

On 13/04/2018 13:50, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > All good and well, I understand your point, but as a general rule, I don't want to add UI code to Zn, it is too fundamental for minimal/kernel//headless images. > > Hi, It could be useful to add this kind of methods via extensions in an UI package not in the default group of Zinc configuration maybe? And Pharo 7 could integrate the core of zinc in a low level layer during the bootstrap and the UI stuff in the tooling layer. -- Cyril Ferlicot https://ferlicot.fr

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Progress bar for ZnClient>>#downloadTo:

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 12 Apr 2018, at 17:02, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > > > > On 12 April 2018 at 18:15, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Ben, > > You disappoint me, as I would expect you to trace senders/users of #signalProgress: ;-) > > :P > Yeah I knew I was being slack. I couldn't really follow its operation and was a bit tired. > Actually maybe part of my confusion is that #signalProgress feels more like a command than a status. > I've a slight feeling it would be better as #signallingProgress. > > > ZnClient only signals certain Notifications which a UI around it should deal with. > > For example, > > [ :bar | > bar title: 'Downloading Sources...'. > [ > ZnClient new > url: 'http://files.pharo.org/sources/PharoV30.sources'; > signalProgress: true; > downloadTo: FileLocator temp ] > on: HTTPProgress > do: [ :progress | > progress isEmpty ifFalse: [ bar current: progress percentage ]. > progress resume ] ] asJob run. > > Thanks, that worked, but its a bit convoluted for my goldfish memory to remember each time. > I'd expect having that as a convenience method would be useful to many. > > ZnClient > showProgress: 'Downloading sources...' > during: [ :znClient | > znClient url: 'http://files.pharo.org/sources/PharoV30.sources'. > znClient downloadTo: FileLocator imageDirectory ]. > > ZnClient class >> showProgress: title during: clientBlock > |client| > client := ZnClient new. > client signallingProgress: true. > [ :bar | > bar title: title. > [clientBlock value: client] > on: HTTPProgress > do: [ :progress | > progress isEmpty ifFalse: [ bar current: progress percentage ]. > progress resume ] ] asJob run. > > Easily discoverable as the only class-side method of ZnClient, > and this would also make a useful howto reference. All good and well, I understand your point, but as a general rule, I don't want to add UI code to Zn, it is too fundamental for minimal/kernel//headless images. > But there are other UI approaches as well. > > Sven > > Thanks for you prompt response. > cheers -ben > > > > > On 12 Apr 2018, at 11:25, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > > > > I see ZnClient >> downloadTo: > > calls ZnClient >> downloadEntityTo: > > which uses #withProgressDo: > > which indicates a progress bar might appear. > > > > But... > > ZnClient new > > url: ' https://download.libsodium.org/libsodium/releases/libsodium-1.0.16-msvc.zip' ; > > downloadTo: FileLocator imageDirectory. > > doesn't show a progress bar. What is the recommended way to display one? > > > > cheers -ben

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Marcus Denker

> On 13 Apr 2018, at 12:40, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > > >> On 13 Apr 2018, at 12:19, Joe Shirk <j.b.shirk(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I've been a lurk-fan for a long time but this brings up something that distressed me. Richard Eng, Smalltalk Renaissance hero loves to say Smalltalk's grammar/syntax fits on a postcard. >> >> But the vocabulary doesn't. There is nothing English-like about the always expanding bewildering library namespaces. >> The package names that just use the âproject nameâ can be problematicâ¦ too many words. e.g. âHiedraâ? No idea. (there are ideas of how to improve, I will not list them here as this should not turn into discussion about this issue). The way we present packages (and their granularity) is not ârightâ. Namespaces are a problem in additionâ¦ So yes: we have a lot of thing to improve! . >> GT what? Oh a newbie might eventually figure out it means Glamorous Toolkit. These are meaningless brands. In this drive to come up with creative names for "just objects" that explain nothing at all, Smalltalk is becoming like Java or PHP hell. >> Just look at those examples through the eyes of a novice. The purity is nowhere to be found. >> :( > > You are right, but in 'the real world' it is no longer possible to reserve the nice, simple names for just one variant. The prefixes are a poor mans namespace mechanism. You have to read over them. > > Inspector, EyeInspector, GTInspector, ... > > I rather have cool alternatives and the development of new ideas than 'one ring to rule them all' or no/slow progress. Remember that we develop in a live system, changing things while testing them, this is often hard. Alternative subsystems help a lot. It should be clear that what we have is what we managed to do, not what we dreamed aboutâ¦ I, too, would like to have this clean, nice, small, amazing systemâ¦ but it is not always easy. There is a lot we can (and will!) improve! Marcus

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by aglynn42＠gmail.com

Btw, in my fascination with messing around, the 32 bit version of Pharo 7 for Windows runs better on OS/2 v.5 (yes, it still exists, it was released last June). Probably because its Win32 subsystem is more compatible with Win32 apps than Windows 10. Andrew From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 5:26 AM To: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Cc: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ? BTW, why put an .exe installer for Windows available when it crashes right from the start? It just doesn't work at all. Period. For everyone. And I thought looking for senders of a method was something we mastered a long time ago, like starting with Smalltalk-76. Am I supposed to assume that everything, even basic functionalities, are all broken because it's labeled "alpha" ? ----------------- BenoÃ®t St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Twitter: @BenLeChialeux Pinterest: benoitstjean Instagram: Chef_Benito IRC: lamneth Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) On Friday, April 13, 2018, 5:20:28 a.m. EDT, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com> > wrote: On 13 Apr 2018, at 11:07, Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com <mailto:bstjean@yahoo.com> > wrote: I'm on Windows 10, using Pharo 7.0 alpha 32 bit. and btwâ¦ which part of ALPHA you do not get? Esteban

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by aglynn42＠gmail.com

Maybe Iâm missing something, or maybe Iâm not âeveryoneâ, but Iâve only had a few problems with 32 bit Pharo 7 and Windows. Btw Windows 10 â64 bitâ is about as 64 bit as Windows 95 was 32 bit. i.e. not very. Most of the issues center around Moose, not the core Pharo. But Iâm only playing with Pharo 7, mainly on Linux where the latest image seems pretty stable. My actual development is still on 61 (and in one case, 5.0 since it requires the old FFI). M$ is supposed to fix the remains of 32 bit Windows next year, but we all know what ânext yearâ means to Microsoft, itâs forever ânext yearâ. As far as I understood, most of the development of Pharo 7 is focused on the 64 bit version in any case. Whatâs missing from 61 that you absolutely have to have ATM? Andrew From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 5:26 AM To: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Cc: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ? BTW, why put an .exe installer for Windows available when it crashes right from the start? It just doesn't work at all. Period. For everyone. And I thought looking for senders of a method was something we mastered a long time ago, like starting with Smalltalk-76. Am I supposed to assume that everything, even basic functionalities, are all broken because it's labeled "alpha" ? ----------------- BenoÃ®t St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Twitter: @BenLeChialeux Pinterest: benoitstjean Instagram: Chef_Benito IRC: lamneth Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) On Friday, April 13, 2018, 5:20:28 a.m. EDT, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com> > wrote: On 13 Apr 2018, at 11:07, Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com <mailto:bstjean@yahoo.com> > wrote: I'm on Windows 10, using Pharo 7.0 alpha 32 bit. and btwâ¦ which part of ALPHA you do not get? Esteban

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 13 Apr 2018, at 12:19, Joe Shirk <j.b.shirk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I've been a lurk-fan for a long time but this brings up something that distressed me. Richard Eng, Smalltalk Renaissance hero loves to say Smalltalk's grammar/syntax fits on a postcard. > > But the vocabulary doesn't. There is nothing English-like about the always expanding bewildering library namespaces. > > GT what? Oh a newbie might eventually figure out it means Glamorous Toolkit. These are meaningless brands. In this drive to come up with creative names for "just objects" that explain nothing at all, Smalltalk is becoming like Java or PHP hell. > Just look at those examples through the eyes of a novice. The purity is nowhere to be found. > :( You are right, but in 'the real world' it is no longer possible to reserve the nice, simple names for just one variant. The prefixes are a poor mans namespace mechanism. You have to read over them. Inspector, EyeInspector, GTInspector, ... I rather have cool alternatives and the development of new ideas than 'one ring to rule them all' or no/slow progress. Remember that we develop in a live system, changing things while testing them, this is often hard. Alternative subsystems help a lot. > On Apr 13, 2018 1:56 AM, "Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 05:53:46 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: Where do we go now ? > Hello guys, > > Just a quick word to get some things straight because, quite frankly, I really don't know where we're heading. > > When Pharo started, the goal was to depart from Squeak and do a *major clean up* of all the code, especially Morphic. The promise of a new, clean & lean Smalltalk attracted a lot of people. And then... > > I'm looking at the Pharo 7.0 image right now and I just don't get where we're heading. Every Pharo release gets bigger, and bigger, and bigger. I don't mind the environment getting bigger if it adds functionalities or new tools but that's not quite the case here. LOTS of stuff is just duplicated. > > Do we really need 2 code completion classes (NECController, NOCController) ? Do we really need 2 system browsers (Nautilus, Calypso)? Do we really need 2 compilers (OpalCompiler, Compiler) ? Do we really need 8 delay schedulers (DelayMicrosecondScheduler, DelayMillisecondScheduler, DelayNullScheduler, DelayExperimentalSpinScheduler, DelaySpinScheduler, DelayTicklessScheduler, DelayExperimentalCourageousScheduler, DelayExperimentalSemaphoreScheduler) ? Do we really need 2 inspectors (GTInspector, EyeInspector) ? Do we really need 2 workspaces (GTPlayground, Workspace) ? Et cetera. Et cetera. Et cetera. I could go on, and on, and on... > > Pharo 5.1 had 5885 classes. Pharo 6.1 had 6481 classes. Pharo 7.0 alpha has 7612 classes. Can you see a trend? > > Pharo 5.1 had 416 preference settings. Pharo 6.1 had 494 preference settings. Pharo 7.0 alpha has 662 preference settings. Can you see a trend? > > Pharo 5.1 had a 27.44 MB image. Pharo 6.1 had a 35.18 MB image. Pharo 7.0 alpha has a 47.97 MB image. Can you see a trend? > > Add to that the fact that Pharo is a nightmare when you want to port code. Just with the 7.0 release, 61 classes will be deprecated (and lots more to come if you search for the string "deprecated" into the code, most of the time hidden in the comments of the soon-to-be-deprecated-in-Pharo-8-I-guess classes). > > You have code that deals with sockets, should you use the old Socket classes or convert everything to Zodiac? And why do we keep both "frameworks" in the image ? Pharo hasn't been backward compatible with "old socket classes" a looooooong time ago anyway! > > You have code that deals with dependencies, should you use the old dependents mechanism or convert everything to announcements? > > UI speaking, what framework should anyone use ? Athens? Something else? > > You have code that deals with streams, should you use the old stream classes or convert everything to Zinc ? And why do we keep both "frameworks" in the image ? Pharo hasn't been backward compatible with the old stream classes a looooooong time ago anyway! > > So what's the plan? For instance, should I keep using the Nautilus Browser or I should switch to the Calypso browser and get used to it because Nautilus will be deprecated? Or should I just don't care because a third system browser will be added in Pharo 8 just because "it's cool, let's add this one too!" ? > > Couldn't we just decide on what's "official" and what's a goodie or an external optional tool/package/framework the same way all other Smalltalks do? If you say Calypso is the official & supported browser, fine! Then just get Nautilus out of the image, create a nice loadable package for it and if someone prefers Nautilus, they'll just have to load it into the image, the same way VW has a gazillion optional tools/packages/frameworks you can load from a parcel! > > Whenever I get asked a simple question by a newbie like "Oh, which system browser should I use?", quite frankly, I don't know what to answer. Did we include Calypso to deprecate Nautilus later? Is Calypso just a proof of concept? Is it just an optional tool? What about all those delay schedulers? > > "I loaded this code from SqueakSource and it just doesn't work". Should I help the guy to fix it or just tell him to convert all the code to the corresponding framework in Pharo? > > Perhaps a little bit of clarity and details about what's coming and what's the plan would be beneficial to a lot of us. > > > ----------------- > BenoÃ®t St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > Instagram: Chef_Benito > IRC: lamneth > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) > >

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Joe Shirk

I've been a lurk-fan for a long time but this brings up something that distressed me. Richard Eng, Smalltalk Renaissance hero loves to say Smalltalk's grammar/syntax fits on a postcard. But the vocabulary doesn't. There is nothing English-like about the always expanding bewildering library namespaces. GT what? Oh a newbie might eventually figure out it means Glamorous Toolkit. These are meaningless brands. In this drive to come up with creative names for "just objects" that explain nothing at all, Smalltalk is becoming like Java or PHP hell. Just look at those examples through the eyes of a novice. The purity is nowhere to be found. :( On Apr 13, 2018 1:56 AM, "Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users" < pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org Cc: Bcc: Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 05:53:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Where do we go now ? Hello guys, Just a quick word to get some things straight because, quite frankly, I really don't know where we're heading. When Pharo started, the goal was to depart from Squeak and do a *major clean up* of all the code, especially Morphic. The promise of a new, clean & lean Smalltalk attracted a lot of people. And then... I'm looking at the Pharo 7.0 image right now and I just don't get where we're heading. Every Pharo release gets bigger, and bigger, and bigger. I don't mind the environment getting bigger if it adds functionalities or new tools but that's not quite the case here. LOTS of stuff is just duplicated. Do we really need 2 code completion classes (NECController, NOCController) ? Do we really need 2 system browsers (Nautilus, Calypso)? Do we really need 2 compilers (OpalCompiler, Compiler) ? Do we really need 8 delay schedulers (DelayMicrosecondScheduler, DelayMillisecondScheduler, DelayNullScheduler, DelayExperimentalSpinScheduler, DelaySpinScheduler, DelayTicklessScheduler, DelayExperimentalCourageousScheduler, DelayExperimentalSemaphoreScheduler) ? Do we really need 2 inspectors (GTInspector, EyeInspector) ? Do we really need 2 workspaces (GTPlayground, Workspace) ? Et cetera. Et cetera. Et cetera. I could go on, and on, and on... Pharo 5.1 had 5885 classes. Pharo 6.1 had 6481 classes. Pharo 7.0 alpha has 7612 classes. Can you see a trend? Pharo 5.1 had 416 preference settings. Pharo 6.1 had 494 preference settings. Pharo 7.0 alpha has 662 preference settings. Can you see a trend? Pharo 5.1 had a 27.44 MB image. Pharo 6.1 had a 35.18 MB image. Pharo 7.0 alpha has a 47.97 MB image. Can you see a trend? Add to that the fact that Pharo is a nightmare when you want to port code. Just with the 7.0 release, 61 classes will be deprecated (and lots more to come if you search for the string "deprecated" into the code, most of the time hidden in the comments of the soon-to-be-deprecated-in-Pharo-8-I-guess classes). You have code that deals with sockets, should you use the old Socket classes or convert everything to Zodiac? And why do we keep both "frameworks" in the image ? Pharo hasn't been backward compatible with "old socket classes" a looooooong time ago anyway! You have code that deals with dependencies, should you use the old dependents mechanism or convert everything to announcements? UI speaking, what framework should anyone use ? Athens? Something else? You have code that deals with streams, should you use the old stream classes or convert everything to Zinc ? And why do we keep both "frameworks" in the image ? Pharo hasn't been backward compatible with the old stream classes a looooooong time ago anyway! So what's the plan? For instance, should I keep using the Nautilus Browser or I should switch to the Calypso browser and get used to it because Nautilus will be deprecated? Or should I just don't care because a third system browser will be added in Pharo 8 just because "it's cool, let's add this one too!" ? Couldn't we just decide on what's "official" and what's a goodie or an external optional tool/package/framework the same way all other Smalltalks do? If you say Calypso is the official & supported browser, fine! Then just get Nautilus out of the image, create a nice loadable package for it and if someone prefers Nautilus, they'll just have to load it into the image, the same way VW has a gazillion optional tools/packages/frameworks you can load from a parcel! Whenever I get asked a simple question by a newbie like "Oh, which system browser should I use?", quite frankly, I don't know what to answer. Did we include Calypso to deprecate Nautilus later? Is Calypso just a proof of concept? Is it just an optional tool? What about all those delay schedulers? "I loaded this code from SqueakSource and it just doesn't work". Should I help the guy to fix it or just tell him to convert all the code to the corresponding framework in Pharo? Perhaps a little bit of clarity and details about what's coming and what's the plan would be beneficial to a lot of us. ----------------- BenoÃ®t St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Twitter: @BenLeChialeux Pinterest: benoitstjean Instagram: Chef_Benito IRC: lamneth Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein)

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Ben Coman

On 13 April 2018 at 17:07, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users < pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org>, > Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 09:07:16 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ? > "You cannot take an alpha version and expect production quality." > > I'm on Windows 10, using Pharo 7.0 alpha 32 bit. > > > Can I at least expect to be able to save code in my local Monticello > repository ? It bombs. I just reported a bug! > > Can I expect the Windows installer for Pharo Launcher to work on Windows? > It doesn't : it crashes. > It works fine for me on Windows 10. There were some issues that depended on how PharoLauncher was installed. The installer (NSIS) being used at that time doesn't handle non-Admin installs very well. Prior to PharoLauncher being promoted as the main download, I guess people on Windows using PharoLauncher either ran it as Admin, or worked around it like me - on Windows I would just roll my own from a fresh Pharo 6 and the Project Catalog. To be clear, the problem was heavily influenced by the constraints of an external tool. Get PharoLauncher installed in the right location and it works like a dream. Did you try the proof-of-concept installer I posted previously to the list... http://www.mediafire.com/file/3g579bmzqspt8e1/BCPharoLauncher.msi > > Can I expect Pharo Launcher (not installed from the .exe installer) to > work on Windows? It just doesn't. I get all kinds of error related to > WindowsStore, bad UTF-8 encoding and other things... (see > https://twitter.com/smalltalkdev/status/978973863332798464) > Yes most people can expect it works perfectly on Windows. But as always it depends. There is always the chance something in your environment triggers a bug. like maybe non-ascii characters in you username/path? > > Can I expect that when looking for implementors of a method things still > work? I get duplicates (see attached file). > Do you mean only the duplicate "Traited class >> isTrait" in your screenshot? I just tried this in "Pharo-7.0+alpha.build.762.sha.0e0fe47c5ccef" by typing "isTrait" into the Playground, selecting it and pressing Ctrl-M, and I don't get the duplicate. Which build of Pharo are you using? > > Can I expect reading input from the console to work on Windows? It > doesn't. > Bit hard to understand your problem from that one-liner. > > Can I expect to be able to test my stuff on Windows? That's kinda hard > when Windows is always 6 months to 1 year behind VM-wise. > I'm not whining about the effort people put into this project : I'm mostly > whining about duplication of effort and code and *very poor* Windows > support... > AFAIK, Pharo 6.1 32-bit VM is up to date with the other platforms. Regarding 64-bit Windows. Yes it is behind. The specific companies interested in 64-bit Linux support put money on the table to get it done. No one has stepped up to do the same for Windows 64-bit, so realistically it lags behind. btw, lately it gets harder to run 32-bit apps on Linux and OSX, but there is no reason to stop using 32-bits VM on Windows. > > Can I expect to be able to contribute ? That is kinda sad but all the > cool scripts out there are .sh files. > huh? > Just spend 2 weeks working with Pharo on Windows. You can start with > version 5.1 if you want and let me know how it goes... Brace yourself, I'm > telling you, you're off for a wild & unpleasant ride. > Its been a while since I worked with Pharo on Windows, but I've been using it the last few weeks with no problems. Pharo 6.1 and Pharo 7. cheers -ben

April 13, 2018