November 2018 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] Commit dates when migrating repos to github

by Ben Coman

On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 at 22:22, nacho <0800nacho(a)gmail.com> wrote: > do you know of some resources, tutorial or documentaton I can read to learn > how to use Iceberg? > I'm completely lost. > thanks > Nacho > How familiar are you already with git? This seems to be the most recent video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK2yCu2rWCc Notes from the main repo... https://github.com/pharo-vcs/iceberg/tree/master/docs cheers -ben

Nov. 21, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] My Keynote at the Salta Conference

by Ben Coman

Please keep in mind that I take the time to write this because I'd like you to succeed. On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 at 21:13, horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > From the very start of my advocacy four years ago, it has always been about > marketing. It has always been about reaching out to as many people as > possible to raise public awareness. I cannot be sure, but I believe I've > reached out to more than 100,000 people around the world who did not > previously know about Smalltalk, or who thought Smalltalk was dead. Whether > or not this is a positive outcome remains to be seen. > I'm sure its had a positive effect overall, but of course its very hard to judge. The latency is large and conversion rate low, but it all helps. Your later articles improved a lot in providing a balanced presentation. The high school competition is another marketing tool, and probably the most > powerful one at my disposal. From my perspective, it is not a waste of > money. Seeding thousands of young minds across the country with knowledge > of > Smalltalk may have profound consequences in the years to come, just as > seeding thousands of college students with experience in Linux helped to > lift Linux into the mainstream during the 1990s and 2000s. Advocacy begins > with our younger generation â that's the only way to ensure the future. > I do agree it has potential to make an impression on impressionable minds and a back door approach to widely introduce professors to Pharo/Smalltalk when their students complain about lesser tools. I think what you are trying to achieve is ambitious but also worthwhile if you succeed. > From what I can tell, the above message resonated with the Smalltalks 2018 > conference. Everybody seemed pumped. This suggests to me that my strategy > is > sound. > > It all boils down to this: Either you agree with my marketing strategy, or > you don't. If you don't, then I am not sanguine about Smalltalk's future. > Its community will always remain very small. If that's acceptable, then my > advocacy is no longer needed. > > Allow me to make one final comment: There's seems to be a perception that > my > effort over the past four years has been insignificant and without monetary > value. I've worked on this for thousands of man-hours. Of course that background is not immediately apparent in remote interactions. Though I think its more that some believed your time would be better spent on other activities than thinking you've not put in significant effort. But you don't spend a lot of time "here". You just drop in when you need something. :) And really thats okay to ask, but you need to manage your expectations about how quickly people align their lives with your goals. So its good to understand your effort, but also that just put yous on par with others here. If I consider it I'd guess I'd put in 4 hours every day for around 1500 hours a year, and many others do much more. Even at minimum wage, > it would amount to $60,000+. I have never asked for a dollar, nor even any > recognition. I've done all this for the good of the Smalltalk community. It > has been pure altruism all the way. > But you see... that is "your" itch that you are scratching, so even when its arduous you (presumably) don't mind. The hard work provides a sense of achievement and well being. Its an emotional response. its said that you can't argue someone out of an emotional position with a logical argument. All that left-brain right-brain stuff. And thats where you're at. So when people are contributing to Pharo to scratch an itch of their own, and you're saying "come over here and scratch my itch" its not surprising they don't drop everything and come running. So much depends on their current circumstances and interests. So it is disingenuous to imply that I'm offloading too much on others in > the Smalltalk community. > "Disingenuous" implies a purposeful falsehood in our comments. :) Whereas everyone's comments here have been I believe our honest perceptions. So its more like... there is a perception that I'm offloading too much on others in the Smalltalk community And marketing is all about perception... So maybe you've just not have marketed yourself to us very well. I'm not asking for much, certainly much less than I've already given these > past four years. > I think its not so much about comparing respective efforts, but more about what discretionary time people have available and their momentum with their interests and priorities. > You are correct, the competition plan is still a work-in-progress. That's > why I'm asking for collaboration. If I could do it all alone, I would. > So you are big on marketing :). Well consider us a market of coding resources you need to understand what drives our desire to contribute. Otherwise you are not marketing, just advertising. Personally I'm open to helping out, just not in the near term. Hope you keep chipping away at it. cheers -ben

Nov. 21, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Commit dates when migrating repos to github

by nacho

do you know of some resources, tutorial or documentaton I can read to learn how to use Iceberg? I'm completely lost. thanks Nacho ----- Nacho Smalltalker apprentice. Buenos Aires, Argentina. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Nov. 21, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] My Keynote at the Salta Conference

by horrido

>From the very start of my advocacy four years ago, it has always been about marketing. It has always been about reaching out to as many people as possible to raise public awareness. I cannot be sure, but I believe I've reached out to more than 100,000 people around the world who did not previously know about Smalltalk, or who thought Smalltalk was dead. Whether or not this is a positive outcome remains to be seen. The high school competition is another marketing tool, and probably the most powerful one at my disposal. From my perspective, it is not a waste of money. Seeding thousands of young minds across the country with knowledge of Smalltalk may have profound consequences in the years to come, just as seeding thousands of college students with experience in Linux helped to lift Linux into the mainstream during the 1990s and 2000s. Advocacy begins with our younger generation â that's the only way to ensure the future. >From what I can tell, the above message resonated with the Smalltalks 2018 conference. Everybody seemed pumped. This suggests to me that my strategy is sound. It all boils down to this: Either you agree with my marketing strategy, or you don't. If you don't, then I am not sanguine about Smalltalk's future. Its community will always remain very small. If that's acceptable, then my advocacy is no longer needed. Allow me to make one final comment: There's seems to be a perception that my effort over the past four years has been insignificant and without monetary value. I've worked on this for thousands of man-hours. Even at minimum wage, it would amount to $60,000+. I have never asked for a dollar, nor even any recognition. I've done all this for the good of the Smalltalk community. It has been pure altruism all the way. So it is disingenuous to imply that I'm offloading too much on others in the Smalltalk community. I'm not asking for much, certainly much less than I've already given these past four years. You are correct, the competition plan is still a work-in-progress. That's why I'm asking for collaboration. If I could do it all alone, I would. Esteban A. Maringolo wrote > It feels to me that the money came unexpectedly and your plan was just > a loosely defined idea. > > Appealing to money or competition to youngsters in a pop culture is a > waste of money, > Go to "pop tech" conferences and see what people value and praise. > It's never money. > > And yes, there are hackatons that pay money to winners, but IMO what > participants value more is the recognition. > > Regards, > > Esteban A. Maringolo > El mar., 20 nov. 2018 a las 19:37, Richard Kenneth Eng > (< > horrido.hobbies@ > >) escribiÃ³: >> >> Not even a single nibble? Doesn't anyone care about promoting Pharo? >> >> What a colossal lost opportunity! >> >> >> On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 at 09:29, Richard Kenneth Eng < > horrido.hobbies@ > > wrote: >>> >>> Some of you may already be aware of my presentation at Smalltalks 2018, >>> the outcome of which was full funding for my Smalltalk programming >>> competition. See My Keynote at the Salta Conference. >>> >>> Three years ago, David Buck provided an outline for the competition. See >>> attached. >>> >>> I would like to use that as a starting point, though I am open to >>> alternative suggestions. >>> >>> The reason for this post is the following... >>> >>> I need volunteers to code the competition. I am nowhere near qualified >>> to do so, as my knowledge of Pharo is limited. >>> >>> Without help from Pharoers (or, at least, Smalltalkers), the competition >>> is in jeopardy. This is a great opportunity to promote Pharo. (The >>> original competition three years ago was going to use VisualWorks, but >>> since Cincom did not see fit to support my competition this year, I >>> decided to go with Pharo.) >>> >>> Please contact me if anyone is interested. It would be a terrible shame >>> to waste this opportunity. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Richard -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Nov. 21, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] My Keynote at the Salta Conference

by Esteban Maringolo

It feels to me that the money came unexpectedly and your plan was just a loosely defined idea. Appealing to money or competition to youngsters in a pop culture is a waste of money, Go to "pop tech" conferences and see what people value and praise. It's never money. And yes, there are hackatons that pay money to winners, but IMO what participants value more is the recognition. Regards, Esteban A. Maringolo El mar., 20 nov. 2018 a las 19:37, Richard Kenneth Eng (<horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com>) escribiÃ³: > > Not even a single nibble? Doesn't anyone care about promoting Pharo? > > What a colossal lost opportunity! > > > On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 at 09:29, Richard Kenneth Eng <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Some of you may already be aware of my presentation at Smalltalks 2018, the outcome of which was full funding for my Smalltalk programming competition. See My Keynote at the Salta Conference. >> >> Three years ago, David Buck provided an outline for the competition. See attached. >> >> I would like to use that as a starting point, though I am open to alternative suggestions. >> >> The reason for this post is the following... >> >> I need volunteers to code the competition. I am nowhere near qualified to do so, as my knowledge of Pharo is limited. >> >> Without help from Pharoers (or, at least, Smalltalkers), the competition is in jeopardy. This is a great opportunity to promote Pharo. (The original competition three years ago was going to use VisualWorks, but since Cincom did not see fit to support my competition this year, I decided to go with Pharo.) >> >> Please contact me if anyone is interested. It would be a terrible shame to waste this opportunity. >> >> Regards, >> Richard

Nov. 21, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] About the IoT Hackathon last Friday

by Holger Freyther

> On 17. Nov 2018, at 14:15, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > To get a better impression we made an image film of the event. Now the 4K version is available on youtube. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIl9FAatKyw neat!

Nov. 21, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] My Keynote at the Salta Conference

by horrido

I apologize for my premature reaction. I've observed that posts can get lost or forgotten after a week or two amidst many other posts. I was a bit nervous. My attempt at a "reminder" was clumsy. Ben Coman wrote > Getting no takers within a few days doesn't mean the end of the line. > It means that there is something wrong with your strategy. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Nov. 21, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] problem when running without changes file (on windows)

by Baveco, Hans

Hi Vincent, Indeed your Cruiser tool proved very useful! It showed me how to implement some absolutely required aspects of packaging, in pharo 6.1 (i.e. the NoDebugger trick). I tried also to get this independence of FFI of the sources working, by simply filing in the attached code (from P7) into P6.1. However this didnât appear to do the job â maybe some additional actions are required (recompiling things?)? Hans From: Vincent.Blondeau(a)lamresearch.com <Vincent.Blondeau(a)lamresearch.com> Sent: woensdag 21 november 2018 3:33 To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] problem when running without changes file (on windows) Hi, You may want to look at https://github.com/VincentBlondeau/Cruiser that contains all the actions needed to perform a clean packaging (Still in dev though). The only issue is that it works for Pharo 7 only and youâll need to backport changes (I can help you on that). Some changes are related to new VM primitives so you have to use the current stable one (which should also running the Pharo 6.1 images). Donât hesitate to ask me if you need advices or help on this. I could try to make the tool work on Pharo 6, but it could be incomplete especially on the FFI and stdio part. HTH, Cheers, Vincent From: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org<mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org>> On Behalf Of Guillermo Polito Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 6:04 To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org<mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] problem when running without changes file (on windows) Hi Hans, On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 2:56 PM Baveco, Hans <hans.baveco(a)wur.nl<mailto:hans.baveco@wur.nl>> wrote: Ok, thanks for this crucial information! Would backporting be as simple as filing out the class and the single method from Pharo7 and filing in in Pharo6.1 ? (probably not) While not completely sure, I think they actually could work. Maybe you found in the way a couple of other methods to backport, but I think that it should not be that difficult. This is the original issue that fixed this in Pharo7: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/21124/FFI-should-work-without-the-sources<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__pharo.fogbugz.com_f_ca…> And here the PR with the fix: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/739<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_pharo-2Dpro…> There are a couple of more changes there, but not so many.

Nov. 21, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] problem when running without changes file (on windows)

by Baveco, Hans

Thanks for the link! I could download the moose-7.0 image and changes files. However, to run it a specific version of the sources files (Pharo7.0-32bit-facd684.sources) seems to be required. Where could that be found? Hans From: Vincent.Blondeau(a)lamresearch.com <Vincent.Blondeau(a)lamresearch.com> Sent: woensdag 21 november 2018 3:35 To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] problem when running without changes file (on windows) Have you seen https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-7.0/ ? Roassal is loaded on it. Vincent From: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org<mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org>> On Behalf Of Baveco, Hans Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 5:56 To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org<mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] problem when running without changes file (on windows) Ok, thanks for this crucial information! Would backporting be as simple as filing out the class and the single method from Pharo7 and filing in in Pharo6.1 ? (probably not) I could also move y application to Pharo 7, but sofar I havenât been able to load Roassal2 in Pharo 7 (32bit). Any information on how to achieve this (on windows)? No Moose 7.0 image with Roassal preloaded available either, AFAIK... Hans From: Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com<mailto:guillermopolito@gmail.com>> Sent: dinsdag 13 november 2018 16:46 To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org<mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] problem when running without changes file (on windows) Still, in Pharo6 the absense of changes and sources files means also that FFI calls cannot be done. UFFI uses the method source code to map arguments, and if no source code is available, FFI calls cannot be resolved. This is solved in Pharo7 thanks to Vincent Blondeau by embedding argument names into the method (and thus not requiring source code anymore). If you need it, you can take the FFICompilerPlugin class + (RBMethodNode>>ensureCachedArgumentNames) from Pharo7 and try to backport them on your Pharo6 installation. On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 4:29 PM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu<mailto:sven@stfx.eu>> wrote: Hi Hans, Did you see (read the class comment) of NoPharoFilesOpener and NoChangesLog ? Sven > On 13 Nov 2018, at 16:19, Baveco, Hans <hans.baveco(a)wur.nl<mailto:hans.baveco@wur.nl>> wrote: > > I have a pharo 6.1 image (based on the Moose 6.1 image) containing a small application. I would like to distribute this without the source code. When I run the application with the changes file present all is fine. When running with the changes file removed, it mostly works ok but apparently the functionality for e.g. creating png (linked to Cairo?) is not available. The log file is attached. > > Now looking a bit further into this I observed that in fact all the 6.1 images I work with seem to have this same problem, e.g. when displaying Roassal graphs they display the red windows with crosses. > > Is this option to run without a changes files supposed to work in 6.1 (on windows)? What should I do to make it work? (noticed that there is no setting anymore for this) > > Hans > <PharoDebug.log> -- [https://www.cristal.univ-lille.fr/videos/presentation.jpg] [https://intranet.cnrs.fr/Cnrs_pratique/communiquer/guides/PublishingImages/…] Guille Polito Research Engineer Centre de Recherche en Informatique, Signal et Automatique de Lille CRIStAL - UMR 9189 French National Center for Scientific Research - http://www.cnrs.fr<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cnrs.fr&d=DwMGaQ&c=…> Web: http://guillep.github.io<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__guillep.github.io&d=DwM…> Phone: +33 06 52 70 66 13

Nov. 21, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] glamorous toolkit alpha.3

by Tim Mackinnon

Itâs very exciting watching the progress both in these email updates and the excellent more visual tweets. This and the progress on Pharo 7 will make for a great Xmas! Tim Sent from my iPhone > On 20 Nov 2018, at 23:08, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > Another month has swooshed and now itâs time for Glamorous Toolkit alpha.3: > https://feenk.com/gt > > The key things that changed are as follows: > > - We rewrote Documenter. This was challenge, but the results are more than worth it. > One visible thing is that now the previews get cached, and as a consequence we can actually work inside the document. > But, perhaps the more impactful thing is that we can now toggle the visibility of Pillar markup. We think it significantly improves the experience and consequently, the value of the live documents. > > <gt-documenter-toggle-markup-small.gif> > > > - We advanced the work on the method Coder. To explore the boundaries, we reimagined the extract method refactoring. Thatâs : > https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1064823381407748096 > > - We enhanced the navigation in Playground / Inspector: > https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1064823381407748096 > > > A more complete list of issues we addressed is found here: > https://github.com/feenkcom/gtoolkit/milestone/1?closed=1 > > > > Have fun, > The feenk team > > -- > www.feenk.com > > âHow do you feenk today?" >

Nov. 21, 2018