August 2017 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

by Tim Mackinnon

If we are considering this, might we take the hard decision to actually support proper markdown (or even kramdown if we need more control). Pillar is a weird variant that isn't like everyone else - so i always have to think about how to do formatting. I know it's not nice, and lots of things are done in pillar - but could we convert them to be like everyone else? The readme.md that Peter is talking about is gfm markdown.' Tim Sent from my iPhone > On 11 Aug 2017, at 20:24, Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 09:14:01PM +0200, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> >>> On 11 Aug 2017, at 21:10, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> hi, >>> >>>> On 11 Aug 2017, at 18:57, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com <mailto:cyril.ferlicot@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Another step would be to get a minimal parser not relying on >>>> PetitParser. >>> >>> Letâs think differently: why not to include a tiny PetitParser? >>> Then we can think on: >>> >>> - pillar sintax (better than just a restricted version) >> *syntax*â¦ sorry for spanish intromission ;) >> >> btwâ¦ not just outside the image (as readme). > > Yes, one of the points I want is to have the readme available in Pharo's Help Browser with rich content. > > Peter >

Aug. 11, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Thread-safe initialization of class state (was Re: Threads safety in Pharo)

by Tim Mackinnon

I think that thread safety comes with a penalty - so the overarching question is are we trying to create thread safe browsers (or does a thread safe penalty even impact browsing as maybe it's negligible?) Monty - maybe you could measure the impact if you are interested in this? If it's not much and we just need to encapsulate it with some mechanism (potentially having thread safety critics we can enable) then it's possibly something Calypso can embrace. This said, multi user editing is not something that has really taken off. Jason at VW did lots with Wolfpack, and it wasn't an idea that gained lots of traction a few years ago (sadly). It's tricky as we have to spend our engineering resources wisely. Tim Sent from my iPhone > On 11 Aug 2017, at 19:41, Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Suerly we can add a Critics Rule trying to detect the invalid pattern. > >> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 10:39 AM, monty <monty2(a)programmer.net> wrote: >> > Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 at 6:36 AM >> > From: "Denis Kudriashov" <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> >> > To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Thread-safe initialization of class state (was Re: Threads safety in Pharo) >> > >> > What package you explore? I not find fileTypes method in Pharo 7. >> >> Like I said, it's a hypothetical example. But I'm sure you could find similar examples of unsafe class state initialization in the image and in popular libraries. >> >> > 2017-08-11 8:53 GMT+02:00 monty <monty2@programmer.net[mailto:monty2@programmer.net]>:Here's a hypothetical broken class method that does lazy initialization of a class inst var: >> > >> > fileTypes >> > fileTypes ifNil: [ >> > fileTypes := Dictionary new. >> > fileTypes >> > at: 'txt' put: 'Text File'; >> > at: 'html' put: 'Web Page'; >> > at: 'pdf' put: 'Portable Document Format File'; >> > at: 'doc' put: 'Microsoft Word Document']. >> > ^ fileTypes. >> > >> > Because the assignment is done first and the initialization is done after with a cascade of interruptable sends of #at:put:, there's a window after the assignment where 'fileTypes' is not nil but also not fully initialized--a race condition. >> > >> > The fix is simple. Do the initialization before the atomic assignment takes place, so the var is only ever bound to nil or a fully initialized object: >> > >> > fileTypes >> > fileTypes ifNil: [ >> > fileTypes := >> > Dictionary new >> > at: 'txt' put: 'Text File'; >> > at: 'html' put: 'Web Page'; >> > at: 'pdf' put: 'Portable Document Format File'; >> > at: 'doc' put: 'Microsoft Word Document'; >> > yourself]. >> > ^ fileTypes. >> > >> > The fixed code is still vulnerable to duplicate initialization, because the initialization sequence is interruptable and 'fileTypes' is nil during it, but as long as the initialization is cheap enough, has no side effects that restrict how often it can be done, and it's enough that the initialized objects are equal (but not identical), that's OK. >> > >> > If it's too complex for a single statement, you can use a temp vars or put it in a separate factory method: >> > >> > fileTypes >> > fileTypes ifNil: [ >> > fileTypes := self newFileTypes]. >> > ^ fileTypes. >> > >> > Similar precautions (given how easy) might as well be taken with explicit initialization of class state too. Of course if the object is mutated later (in other methods), then Mutexes or other constructs are needed to guard access. But for immutable class state, ensuring initialization is done before assignment should be enough. >> > >> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 at 7:36 AM >> > > From: "Stephane Ducasse" <stepharo.self@gmail.com[mailto:stepharo.self@gmail.com]> >> > > To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org[mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org]> >> > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Threads safety in Pharo >> > > >> > > I would love to have an analysis of assumptions made in some code. >> > > Because my impression is that the concurrent code is sometimes defined >> > > knowing the underlying logic of scheduler and this is not good. >> > > As I said to abdel privately in french it would be great to start from >> > > my french squeak book (Yes I wrote one long time ago) chapter on >> > > concurrent programming and turn it into a pharo chapter. >> > > >> > > Stef >> > > >> > > On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com[mailto:btc@openinworld.com]> wrote: >> > > > Not sure I'll have what you're looking for, but to start, do you mean >> > > > Pharo's green threads or vm native threads? >> > > > cheers -ben >> > > > >> > > > On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 7:38 AM, Alidra Abdelghani via Pharo-users >> > > > <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org[mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org]> wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> > > >> From: Alidra Abdelghani <alidrandco@yahoo.fr[mailto:alidrandco@yahoo.fr]> >> > > >> To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org[mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org] >> > > >> Cc: "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr[mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr]>, farid arfi >> > > >> <arfi_f@hotmail.com[mailto:arfi_f@hotmail.com]> >> > > >> Bcc: >> > > >> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 01:38:58 +0200 >> > > >> Subject: Threads safety in Pharo >> > > >> Hi, >> > > >> >> > > >> Somebody once evoked the problem of threads safety in Pharo. With a friend >> > > >> of mine who is expert in formal methods and process scheduling, we would >> > > >> like to have a look on it. >> > > >> Does anyone knows a good document describing the problem of Pharo with >> > > >> threads safety or at least any document that we can start with? >> > > >> >> > > >> Thanks in advance, >> > > >> Abdelghani >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >

Aug. 11, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] FLSerializer in Pharo 6.1

by Johannes Brauer

Hi Stephane, I take a fresh Pharo 6.1 image, put it on my desktop (macOs 10.12.6), and then I take the example from the FLSerializer class comment: | sourceArray loadedArray | sourceArray := Array with: 'a string' with: Transcript with: [ Transcript show: 'a string' ]. ^ FLSerializer serialize: sourceArray toFileNamed: âexample.FL' Evaluating this results in the Exception. Johannes > Am 11.08.2017 um 19:18 schrieb Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com>: > > Hi johannes > > do you have an example so that we can try here? > > Tx > > On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Johannes Brauer <brauer(a)nordakademie.de> wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> the FLSerializer in Pharo 6.1 doesnât work. I tried the example from the class comment and I always get >> >> FileException: cannot open file: example.FL. >> >> Is that a known problem? >> >> Johannes >

Aug. 11, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

by Peter Uhnak

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 09:14:01PM +0200, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > > > On 11 Aug 2017, at 21:10, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > hi, > > > >> On 11 Aug 2017, at 18:57, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com <mailto:cyril.ferlicot@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> > >> Another step would be to get a minimal parser not relying on > >> PetitParser. > > > > Letâs think differently: why not to include a tiny PetitParser? > > Then we can think on: > > > > - pillar sintax (better than just a restricted version) > *syntax*â¦ sorry for spanish intromission ;) > > btwâ¦ not just outside the image (as readme). Yes, one of the points I want is to have the readme available in Pharo's Help Browser with rich content. Peter

Aug. 11, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 11 Aug 2017, at 21:10, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > hi, > >> On 11 Aug 2017, at 18:57, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com <mailto:cyril.ferlicot@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Another step would be to get a minimal parser not relying on >> PetitParser. > > Letâs think differently: why not to include a tiny PetitParser? > Then we can think on: > > - pillar sintax (better than just a restricted version) *syntax*â¦ sorry for spanish intromission ;) btwâ¦ not just outside the image (as readme). There was a prototype about rich text (using pillar, of course) for class comments. Esteban > - simplify other âsmall parsersâ that are already on the image. > - we provide a tool to o cool stuff (instead relying as always in regexp, etc.) > > cheers, > Esteban

Aug. 11, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

by Esteban Lorenzano

hi, > On 11 Aug 2017, at 18:57, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Another step would be to get a minimal parser not relying on > PetitParser. Letâs think differently: why not to include a tiny PetitParser? Then we can think on: - pillar sintax (better than just a restricted version) - simplify other âsmall parsersâ that are already on the image. - we provide a tool to o cool stuff (instead relying as always in regexp, etc.) cheers, Esteban

Aug. 11, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Thread-safe initialization of class state (was Re: Threads safety in Pharo)

by Gabriel Cotelli

Suerly we can add a Critics Rule trying to detect the invalid pattern. On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 10:39 AM, monty <monty2(a)programmer.net> wrote: > > Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 at 6:36 AM > > From: "Denis Kudriashov" <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> > > To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Thread-safe initialization of class state > (was Re: Threads safety in Pharo) > > > > What package you explore? I not find fileTypes method in Pharo 7. > > Like I said, it's a hypothetical example. But I'm sure you could find > similar examples of unsafe class state initialization in the image and in > popular libraries. > > > 2017-08-11 8:53 GMT+02:00 monty <monty2(a)programmer.net[mailto: > monty2(a)programmer.net]>:Here's a hypothetical broken class method that > does lazy initialization of a class inst var: > > > > fileTypes > > fileTypes ifNil: [ > > fileTypes := Dictionary new. > > fileTypes > > at: 'txt' put: 'Text File'; > > at: 'html' put: 'Web Page'; > > at: 'pdf' put: 'Portable Document Format File'; > > at: 'doc' put: 'Microsoft Word Document']. > > ^ fileTypes. > > > > Because the assignment is done first and the initialization is done > after with a cascade of interruptable sends of #at:put:, there's a window > after the assignment where 'fileTypes' is not nil but also not fully > initialized--a race condition. > > > > The fix is simple. Do the initialization before the atomic assignment > takes place, so the var is only ever bound to nil or a fully initialized > object: > > > > fileTypes > > fileTypes ifNil: [ > > fileTypes := > > Dictionary new > > at: 'txt' put: 'Text File'; > > at: 'html' put: 'Web Page'; > > at: 'pdf' put: 'Portable Document Format > File'; > > at: 'doc' put: 'Microsoft Word Document'; > > yourself]. > > ^ fileTypes. > > > > The fixed code is still vulnerable to duplicate initialization, because > the initialization sequence is interruptable and 'fileTypes' is nil during > it, but as long as the initialization is cheap enough, has no side effects > that restrict how often it can be done, and it's enough that the > initialized objects are equal (but not identical), that's OK. > > > > If it's too complex for a single statement, you can use a temp vars or > put it in a separate factory method: > > > > fileTypes > > fileTypes ifNil: [ > > fileTypes := self newFileTypes]. > > ^ fileTypes. > > > > Similar precautions (given how easy) might as well be taken with > explicit initialization of class state too. Of course if the object is > mutated later (in other methods), then Mutexes or other constructs are > needed to guard access. But for immutable class state, ensuring > initialization is done before assignment should be enough. > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 at 7:36 AM > > > From: "Stephane Ducasse" <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com[mailto: > stepharo.self(a)gmail.com]> > > > To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > [mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org]> > > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Threads safety in Pharo > > > > > > I would love to have an analysis of assumptions made in some code. > > > Because my impression is that the concurrent code is sometimes defined > > > knowing the underlying logic of scheduler and this is not good. > > > As I said to abdel privately in french it would be great to start from > > > my french squeak book (Yes I wrote one long time ago) chapter on > > > concurrent programming and turn it into a pharo chapter. > > > > > > Stef > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com[mailto: > btc(a)openinworld.com]> wrote: > > > > Not sure I'll have what you're looking for, but to start, do you mean > > > > Pharo's green threads or vm native threads? > > > > cheers -ben > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 7:38 AM, Alidra Abdelghani via Pharo-users > > > > <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org[mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org]> > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > >> From: Alidra Abdelghani <alidrandco@yahoo.fr[mailto:al > idrandco(a)yahoo.fr]> > > > >> To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org[mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org] > > > >> Cc: "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr[mailto: > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr]>, farid arfi > > > >> <arfi_f@hotmail.com[mailto:arfi_f@hotmail.com]> > > > >> Bcc: > > > >> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 01:38:58 +0200 > > > >> Subject: Threads safety in Pharo > > > >> Hi, > > > >> > > > >> Somebody once evoked the problem of threads safety in Pharo. With a > friend > > > >> of mine who is expert in formal methods and process scheduling, we > would > > > >> like to have a look on it. > > > >> Does anyone knows a good document describing the problem of Pharo > with > > > >> threads safety or at least any document that we can start with? > > > >> > > > >> Thanks in advance, > > > >> Abdelghani > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >

Aug. 11, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

by Alexandre Bergel

The idea is neat! Usually, I write my README.md through the interface of GitHub. But indeed, if Git and inline documentation are central to Pharo, then having a mini-pillar in the base image would make sense. Anyway, Pillar definitely needs to be improved. Everything that goes in that direction is welcome! Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > On Aug 11, 2017, at 12:52 PM, Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > I would like to propose including Pillar in the Pharo image by default. > > My reasoning: > > Since we are moving to git, and most people will use github, gitlab, and the likes, it is expected to include a README.md file (or possibly more extensive documentation) alongside the code. > > Which means that people will (and are) writing the README mostly by hand, which of course is problematic, as e.g. code snippets can get deprecated, screenshots become outdated, etc. > > As Pillar tries to address these problems, it would make sense to me to include Pillar in the image by default, as anyone using git (which eventually should be everyone) will most likely benefit from writing their documentation in Pillar. > Similarly using Pillar would open an avenue to provide the documentation in-image, e.g. one exporter for html/markdown, and another one for Pharo's Help system. > > I could, of course, install Pillar every time, but considering thats extra effort and in the extra time I can fix the issues by hand, I don't have such an incentive to use Pillar for this. > > Questions & Problems: > > I don't know by how much would pillar increase the image size. Perhaps there could be (a) "lightweight Pillar" (that would include just pillar & markdown exporter), or (b) we would have different images for different uses. > > By different images I mean something along the lines of > a) developer image - meant to be directly used by developers to create their software > b) production image - as a foundation for running systems / users > > Does this make sense? > > Peter >

Aug. 11, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

by TedVanGaalen

The screen is a Samsung U28D590 3840 x 2160 @ 30Hz (max reso on intel 4000 graphics) via a Thunderbolt->DisplayPort cable. Initially not directly supported, that is, the resolution was not recognized by the OS as-is, but has been enabled with the SwitchResx app here http://www.madrau.com/ which somehow tweaks the system telling it about this new resolution. Many use this utility app. It runs OK from the start since summer 2015. Pharo 5.0 runs fast and stable without problems. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-6-0-and-6-1-64-bit-freeze-on-MacMini-tp4957969p… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 11, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

by Peter Uhnak

What I meant is that I have a readme, e.g. https://github.com/OpenPonk/xmi , which contains * Pharo code examples * images * References to Pharo code (class names, etc.) But if the code changes (renames, API changes, different UI), I have to manually update the README. There is also no way for me to validate the examples, etc and see if anything is broken. Peter On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 06:58:50PM +0200, Stephane Ducasse wrote: > Let us rephrase it: > > - I would like to have a mini pillar with a simplified model and visitor > to display class comments. > > - then think about Pharo 70 as the core and birth of a new generation of imageS > > I will restart to revisit Pillar once I'm done with the Lecture at Prague. > > Stef > > On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 6:52 PM, Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I would like to propose including Pillar in the Pharo image by default. > > > > My reasoning: > > > > Since we are moving to git, and most people will use github, gitlab, and the likes, it is expected to include a README.md file (or possibly more extensive documentation) alongside the code. > > > > Which means that people will (and are) writing the README mostly by hand, which of course is problematic, as e.g. code snippets can get deprecated, screenshots become outdated, etc. > > > > As Pillar tries to address these problems, it would make sense to me to include Pillar in the image by default, as anyone using git (which eventually should be everyone) will most likely benefit from writing their documentation in Pillar. > > Similarly using Pillar would open an avenue to provide the documentation in-image, e.g. one exporter for html/markdown, and another one for Pharo's Help system. > > > > I could, of course, install Pillar every time, but considering thats extra effort and in the extra time I can fix the issues by hand, I don't have such an incentive to use Pillar for this. > > > > Questions & Problems: > > > > I don't know by how much would pillar increase the image size. Perhaps there could be (a) "lightweight Pillar" (that would include just pillar & markdown exporter), or (b) we would have different images for different uses. > > > > By different images I mean something along the lines of > > a) developer image - meant to be directly used by developers to create their software > > b) production image - as a foundation for running systems / users > > > > Does this make sense? > > > > Peter > > >

Aug. 11, 2017